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Toronto to make a big move (or moves?)

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Old
01-29-2011, 08:25 AM
  #476
IrishPaulie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tankotopgun View Post
hey irish paulie not sure if you live in TO or close too. but even with the leafs as a contender you wont hardly see enough of the true fans there. ticket prices are crazy ans the suits buy them up quick. trust me we get offered ticket at my company by partners all the time and most of the people that go are not hockey fans they are going for a night out of free food and drink. i hate hearing those "fans" watch the leafs highlights from the night before and talk about it as if they watched the game and then make comments like when is that kadri kid gonna come around. when is kessel going to score 50 goals and 100 points. agree with what you were saying. let burke trade non long term assets and if he cant move giggy and kaberle fine the cap space he will get for letting them go is really helpful too. just because ufa market is light doesnt mean he cant find another clark mac arbitration deal. this thread burke of creating hype to help himself seem busy. well what the hell is he supposed to do. of course you want to hype your team as a trade partner. and people saying leafs fans this summer will say next year we have a chance. well what do you say about your team? hey they are gonna suck no of course not. you always want to hope your team will do well.
They're like any other fanbase, they have the bandwagoners and the diehards, and yes I hear all the jokes about the ACC fans and their Blackberrys.

It's a shame and I hate to see it. Same with I hate seeing an awesome franchise like the NYI driven into the ground by a crap owners.

I don't mind any Leaf fans saying "next year", I'm a Red Sox fan, we all said "Next year" for about 82 years.

I just think Burke has gone about this all wrong. I feel like he has this template he holds over a roster and assumes that if he follows that template to a T it will translate into a cup. In this salary cap era a team can only spend so much on talent, it's the players on ELCs and the Clarke MacArthur's of this world that take a good roster and make them great. You need draft picks and prospects (buying undrafted free agents its an absolute crap shoot and often times isn't going to yield much, the higher the draft pick the higher the percentage they'll end up having an NHL career) If he goes out and just spend top dollar on UFAs he's going to have a problem filling out the roster.

I was shocked to see the only 1st round picks the Leafs have drafted and developed since the lockout that are in the system are Schenn and Kadri (04 traded pick, 05 Rask (Bos), 06 Tlusty (Car), 07 traded pick, 08 Schenn, 09 Kadri, 10 traded pick, 11 traded pick). 8 drafts and only one 1st rnd pick in the NHL they drafted and developed. This trend hasn't seemed to be working and yet they continue down this path. Hopefully Toronto will not continue their shortsighted ways.

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Old
01-29-2011, 08:38 AM
  #477
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Originally Posted by LEAFANFORLIFE23 View Post
LOL Dregs is not Eklund he actually HAS legit sources like Dave Nonis who is his cousin.

Dregs has crediblity
Yes, sure he has zero credibility...the guy is Eklund on TV....guys like Bobby Mac must just shake their heads when this guy spews his garbage...and you can be sure, Nonis wouldn't jepordize his job, to give Dreger inside info...

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01-29-2011, 08:50 AM
  #478
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Originally Posted by BLONG7 View Post
Yes, sure he has zero credibility...the guy is Eklund on TV....guys like Bobby Mac must just shake their heads when this guy spews his garbage...and you can be sure, Nonis wouldn't jepordize his job, to give Dreger inside info...
There is a benefit to Nonis leaking out info to Dreger:

1. lets teams, who may already know, that they have something big on the table and may be incentive for other teams to show their cards earlier than deadline day if they are interested in team A

2. Leafs are coming off a horrible stretch that have left the media and fans calling for change - be it player personal or management/coaching. This could be an effort to appease the negative feelings in Toronto.

Something could be on the table, already agreed upon in principle but won't be announced until after the all-star break. Burke doesn't trade players during Christmas, why would he during the all star break?

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01-29-2011, 09:03 AM
  #479
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Originally Posted by BLONG7 View Post
Yes, sure he has zero credibility...the guy is Eklund on TV....guys like Bobby Mac must just shake their heads when this guy spews his garbage...and you can be sure, Nonis wouldn't jepordize his job, to give Dreger inside info...
Uhh no.

Dreger has credebility.

Of course, if you say he doesn't, then who am I to judge.

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01-29-2011, 09:04 AM
  #480
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Originally Posted by BLONG7 View Post
Yes, sure he has zero credibility...the guy is Eklund on TV....guys like Bobby Mac must just shake their heads when this guy spews his garbage...and you can be sure, Nonis wouldn't jepordize his job, to give Dreger inside info...
you don't get hired by tsn if you are a joke otherwise guys like bobby Mack wouldn't be working for them.

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Old
01-29-2011, 09:05 AM
  #481
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Originally Posted by Nathan311 View Post
Kessel and a 2nd for Berglund. Thats borderline ********. Not to mention Washington get Kessel and a 5th for laich.
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Originally Posted by Hot Fuss View Post
I agree with that statement to an extent but then you came up with the worst proposal I've ever seen on this board.

Kessel ... AND a 2nd rounder for Patrick Berglund?

C'mon !
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Originally Posted by Leafsnation101 View Post
You can make a point but when you make an outrageous proposal like this,you make yourself just as bad as you potray leaf fans at proposal
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Originally Posted by Chandrashekhar Limit View Post
The irony is : laugh:

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Originally Posted by dannyboy8920 View Post
your hilarious.

There is just as much 'rip off the leaf counter proposals' where someone (just like you), tries to let leaf fans know that all there players suck and wont get much value.

I somewhat remember a still young top dman (with captain potential), plus a top prospect, and a role player; being traded for a bunch of depth. Had i made that proposal; i probably woulda been crucified by Calgary fans. And told how all those 4 players would not get a 4th rounder.(by the leaf haters)

So on that note:

Stajan = Bozak
Hagman < Versteeg
White > Gunnarsson
Mayers = Brown

for

Richards (expiring contract) > Phaneuf (locked down for a while)
Roman < Aulie
Barch - Mayers


That was the joke you fools ...

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01-29-2011, 09:07 AM
  #482
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Stuff like this honestly makes me feel sad for some Leaf fans. It creates this false sens of immediate optimism, when the reality is that there isn't a "quick fix" to what ails the Leafs.

Brian Burke to Leaf fans is like a deadbeat dad to a kid...Empty promises and this crazy false sense of hope, but in the end you always feel let down.

I say this without prejudice or condescension, but you guys deserve better than what you're getting. You deserve at least some form of a legitimate rebuild. Since his current plan is not working, you deserve to see an infusion of youth akin to what's happening in Edmonton right now...a young nucleus to get excited about and watch grow together.

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Old
01-29-2011, 09:43 AM
  #483
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Originally Posted by Neely06 View Post
I say this without prejudice or condescension, but you guys deserve better than what you're getting. You deserve at least some form of a legitimate rebuild. Since his current plan is not working, you deserve to see an infusion of youth akin to what's happening in Edmonton right now...a young nucleus to get excited about and watch grow together.
We've got the beginnings of that already: Schenn, Kessel, Kadri, and Kulemin. And if Phaneuf returns to his former norris calibre level of play, that's a pretty solid core. I'd say we're a big top-line LWer away from being around 5th or 6th in the East (on paper at least) once Kadri transitions to the bigs anywhere from 1 year from now to 3.

LWer-Kadri-Kessel
MacA-Grabo-Kulemin
Versteeg/Ross-Bozak-Armstrong
Brown-Hanson-Orr

Kaberle-Schenn
Beauchemin-Phaneuf
Gunnarson-Aulie

Reimer/Monster/Rynnas/Scrivens

That's by no stretch of the imagination a perrennial playoff team around the level of the Ottawa Senators the past few years. People need to stop hating on the leafs for no reason. I understand we made a bad deal with the B's but it's not as though just because of that we're guaranteed to suck forever.

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Old
01-29-2011, 09:46 AM
  #484
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Originally Posted by Neely06 View Post
Stuff like this honestly makes me feel sad for some Leaf fans. It creates this false sens of immediate optimism, when the reality is that there isn't a "quick fix" to what ails the Leafs.

Brian Burke to Leaf fans is like a deadbeat dad to a kid...Empty promises and this crazy false sense of hope, but in the end you always feel let down.

I say this without prejudice or condescension, but you guys deserve better than what you're getting. You deserve at least some form of a legitimate rebuild. Since his current plan is not working, you deserve to see an infusion of youth akin to what's happening in Edmonton right now...a young nucleus to get excited about and watch grow together.
Yeah, but this was a long time coming for Leaf fans who watched since Quinn took over. He traded our 2003 pick (Kesler and Richards were only 2/3 picks under our pick which Boston selected Stuart with) our 2004 pick was traded (Zajac was taken right after Korprikoski who the Rangers selected), and then in 2007 we give away our 13th overall to the Sharks for Toskala and Bell which we all know how that turned out. We could have made the exact same trade San Jose did with St. Louis and grabbed Logan Couture :/

Leaf fans just don't get much of a break with GM's I'm afraid.

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01-29-2011, 09:55 AM
  #485
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Looks like you can wave goodbye to Kadri.
and Schenn

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Old
01-29-2011, 10:02 AM
  #486
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Oh well...
It's rather
A) No move at all
B) Getting another Fabian Bruunstrom.
C) Kadri + Schenn + 1st for a pair of rental players.

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01-29-2011, 10:46 AM
  #487
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Originally Posted by IrishPaulie View Post
They're like any other fanbase, they have the bandwagoners and the diehards, and yes I hear all the jokes about the ACC fans and their Blackberrys.

It's a shame and I hate to see it. Same with I hate seeing an awesome franchise like the NYI driven into the ground by a crap owners.

I don't mind any Leaf fans saying "next year", I'm a Red Sox fan, we all said "Next year" for about 82 years.

I just think Burke has gone about this all wrong. I feel like he has this template he holds over a roster and assumes that if he follows that template to a T it will translate into a cup. In this salary cap era a team can only spend so much on talent, it's the players on ELCs and the Clarke MacArthur's of this world that take a good roster and make them great. You need draft picks and prospects (buying undrafted free agents its an absolute crap shoot and often times isn't going to yield much, the higher the draft pick the higher the percentage they'll end up having an NHL career) If he goes out and just spend top dollar on UFAs he's going to have a problem filling out the roster.

I was shocked to see the only 1st round picks the Leafs have drafted and developed since the lockout that are in the system are Schenn and Kadri (04 traded pick, 05 Rask (Bos), 06 Tlusty (Car), 07 traded pick, 08 Schenn, 09 Kadri, 10 traded pick, 11 traded pick). 8 drafts and only one 1st rnd pick in the NHL they drafted and developed. This trend hasn't seemed to be working and yet they continue down this path. Hopefully Toronto will not continue their shortsighted ways.
for sure in the cap era its all about finding those young guys and getting some chemistry going ie the grabo kule mac line. for the cap hit they pose its a great line on almost any team. i think burke invested way to much into D i think he shouldve waited out kaberle a bit more to see if he could move him and instead of the log jam now let some younger guys play positions 6 and 7. jeff finger wouldve been alright there but hes not worth his contract. as far as the first rounders there is a much deeper rooted issue there being the leafs scouting abilities. look back historically to who they have drafted. they really havnt darfted anyone close to stamkos or kane type talent. brad boyes has done ok. tukka rask will more than likely be a starter and luke schenn and kadri are looking good so far. plus kessel is a 1st rounder even though hes not the leafs 1st he was 5th overall and has a lot of talent and gas in the tank. i dont think seguin will be as good or get as good an opportunity in the bruins depth. and the leafs seem to have a chance of getting out of the bottom 5 this year so i doubt either pick will be the next crosby. burke does need to mix draft with his trade and free agent build but not sure who his scouts are looking at because they dont have a great track record in toronto right now. the number they have gotten wrong or are just ok far outweigh how many they have gotten truly right.

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Old
01-29-2011, 10:47 AM
  #488
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If its a "major" deal then ones gotta think Schenn or Kadri are involve. Outside of that what else are they gonna pony up to get a decent player back? Maybe some future 1st rounders would be pretty enticing coming from the Leafs. I'm not all convinced they will be able to trade Kessel or Kaberle for a 1st liner. Kaberle is a UFA to be and likely to be only a rental, so will likely get a 2nd or 3rd rounder. Kessel is what he is, a 23 year old "athlete" with ****** boobs that no one really seems to want or care for (case in point yesterdays draft he got picked only cause no one was left and ovy thought it was a riot, so didnt i...) He has the talent, but by now it is quite obvious he wont get to the next level, he doesnt want it bad enough and doesnt train hard enough (or at all). However i do bet he is alreay counting down the days untill he can get out of Toronto. Toronto could probably get a decent prospect for him or even a 1st rounder.

so if there is a "blockbuster" coming from Toronto, which one of Schenn or Kadri are moving? maybe both...

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01-29-2011, 10:49 AM
  #489
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01-29-2011, 10:49 AM
  #490
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Originally Posted by Anders0n74 View Post
St. Louis downgrades a ton, and Washington downgrades slightly (Kaberle is not as good as Toronto fans make him out to be, and wherever he goes he is only going to be a rental - and to add a 1st is asinine). Toronto makes out like bandits. This is a horrible deal for everyone except Toronto.


Toronto fans are terrible at making fair proposals, every deal I've seen is so heavily favoring the laughs, it's not even funny.


How about this for a change:

To STL: Laich + 2nd (Toronto's)
To TOR: Berglund
To WSH: Kessel + 5th (St. Louis)
lol wut?

I'd rather have Kaberle + Versteeg than Oshie + Laich

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01-29-2011, 10:54 AM
  #491
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Burke managed to acquire Phaneuf, Aulie, Sjostrom, and Giguere last year for Stajan, Hagman, White, Mayers, Blake, and Toskala.

I'm not sure why everyone is assuming that we'll have to give up Schenn and Kadri.

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Old
01-29-2011, 10:55 AM
  #492
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Originally Posted by Neely06 View Post
Stuff like this honestly makes me feel sad for some Leaf fans. It creates this false sens of immediate optimism, when the reality is that there isn't a "quick fix" to what ails the Leafs.

Brian Burke to Leaf fans is like a deadbeat dad to a kid...Empty promises and this crazy false sense of hope, but in the end you always feel let down.

I say this without prejudice or condescension, but you guys deserve better than what you're getting. You deserve at least some form of a legitimate rebuild. Since his current plan is not working, you deserve to see an infusion of youth akin to what's happening in Edmonton right now...a young nucleus to get excited about and watch grow together.
While true. If they do somehow get a guy like b. Richards it will knock them a few spots up the standings. I have been saying all summer long they need a #1 center, but I was told time and time again they need a big LW. While that is true a #1 center should be a priority.

If they make the right moves this offseason playoff contention next year wouldn't be a huge suprise.

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01-29-2011, 12:10 PM
  #493
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They're like any other fanbase, they have the bandwagoners and the diehards, and yes I hear all the jokes about the ACC fans and their Blackberrys.

It's a shame and I hate to see it. Same with I hate seeing an awesome franchise like the NYI driven into the ground by a crap owners.

I don't mind any Leaf fans saying "next year", I'm a Red Sox fan, we all said "Next year" for about 82 years.

I just think Burke has gone about this all wrong. I feel like he has this template he holds over a roster and assumes that if he follows that template to a T it will translate into a cup. In this salary cap era a team can only spend so much on talent, it's the players on ELCs and the Clarke MacArthur's of this world that take a good roster and make them great. You need draft picks and prospects (buying undrafted free agents its an absolute crap shoot and often times isn't going to yield much, the higher the draft pick the higher the percentage they'll end up having an NHL career) If he goes out and just spend top dollar on UFAs he's going to have a problem filling out the roster.

I was shocked to see the only 1st round picks the Leafs have drafted and developed since the lockout that are in the system are Schenn and Kadri (04 traded pick, 05 Rask (Bos), 06 Tlusty (Car), 07 traded pick, 08 Schenn, 09 Kadri, 10 traded pick, 11 traded pick). 8 drafts and only one 1st rnd pick in the NHL they drafted and developed. This trend hasn't seemed to be working and yet they continue down this path. Hopefully Toronto will not continue their shortsighted ways.
Our 1st rounders in the lineup / close prospect

2001: Colby Armstrong, Mike Komisarek
2003: Dion Phaneuf
2005: Matt Lashoff (maybe shouldn't be included, but only 24 and doing well in the A)
2006: Phil Kessel, Kulemin (2nd, but should be included)
2008: Schenn
2009: Kadri

I agree, I would like to see us develop some more homegrown talent, but we have gone about creating a young core of high picks in another way.

In addition we have Bozak, Versteeg, Grabo, Macarthur, Gunnar who are all younger than 25 and have turned into 1st / 2nd round quality players or have the potential to be one.

IMO, many good players come outside the 1st round and many 1st rounders turn into nothing.

I like the direction we are going in addition to some quality prospects.

The next couple of deals and continued internal development of the 26 and under guys will be huge for this team taking the next step....

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01-29-2011, 12:24 PM
  #494
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just did Caputi and a 4th for Dustin Penner in Nhl 11

ANYWAYSSSSSSSS, Let's just wait and see

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01-29-2011, 12:27 PM
  #495
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2 options:

a: the bigmouth moron is once again trying to create something out of nothing, using his limelight media.

b: he wants help now therefore trading the future -> Schenn, Monster, Reimer + 1st 2012 could be in play. If hes really that stupid than this guy is so lost, unbelievable.
Burke didn't say **** himself in this topic, Dreger said that he hears Burke might do a deal soon, and I believe him because Dreger is related to Nonis. And your B option is so biased it's not even funny. Burke probably knows this season is over, and he's probably getting future assests for next year's run.

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01-29-2011, 12:34 PM
  #496
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01-29-2011, 12:36 PM
  #497
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Originally Posted by 91Kadri91 View Post
Uhh no.

Dreger has credebility.

Of course, if you say he doesn't, then who am I to judge.
He is like eklund, states the obvious...pure specualtion, and is rarely right...but hey, you are a fan...who am I to judge...

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01-29-2011, 12:46 PM
  #498
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We've got the beginnings of that already: Schenn, Kessel, Kadri, and Kulemin. And if Phaneuf returns to his former norris calibre level of play, that's a pretty solid core. I'd say we're a big top-line LWer away from being around 5th or 6th in the East (on paper at least) once Kadri transitions to the bigs anywhere from 1 year from now to 3.
That's a lot of maybes. Toronto has no center depth. Kadri doesn't look like 1C potential. Teams don't win without a a legit 1C, and some decent back-checking centers.

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01-29-2011, 01:02 PM
  #499
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Originally Posted by Neely06 View Post
Stuff like this honestly makes me feel sad for some Leaf fans. It creates this false sens of immediate optimism, when the reality is that there isn't a "quick fix" to what ails the Leafs.

Brian Burke to Leaf fans is like a deadbeat dad to a kid...Empty promises and this crazy false sense of hope, but in the end you always feel let down.

I say this without prejudice or condescension, but you guys deserve better than what you're getting. You deserve at least some form of a legitimate rebuild. Since his current plan is not working, you deserve to see an infusion of youth akin to what's happening in Edmonton right now...a young nucleus to get excited about and watch grow together.
I feel the same when I watch all of the old geezers on the Leafs playing their way into retirement.

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01-29-2011, 01:03 PM
  #500
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Our 1st rounders in the lineup / close prospect

2001: Colby Armstrong, Mike Komisarek Bad 1st rnder.
2003: Dion Phaneuf
2005: Matt Lashoff (maybe shouldn't be included, but only 24 and doing well in the A) - Lashoff sucks (no offense, Boston fan here saw him play a lot and Hunwick beat him out for a job)
2006: Phil Kessel, Kulemin (2nd, but should be included)
2008: Schenn
2009: Kadri

I agree, I would like to see us develop some more homegrown talent, but we have gone about creating a young core of high picks in another way.

In addition we have Bozak, Versteeg, Grabo, Macarthur, Gunnar who are all younger than 25 and have turned into 1st / 2nd round quality players or have the potential to be one.

IMO, many good players come outside the 1st round and many 1st rounders turn into nothing.

I like the direction we are going in addition to some quality prospects.

The next couple of deals and continued internal development of the 26 and under guys will be huge for this team taking the next step....
I'm talking more about players on ELCs that are able to contribute without eating up a bunch of cap space. Buying other teams successful first rounders is not only costly from a team standpoint (costing: picks, prospects, roster players) but you don't get the cheap 3 ELC years were you can really stack a roster.

Toronto has a decent foundation to build on. The problem is without players on ELCs the roster will reach a saturation point where you overpay for known talent and don't have the prospects to fill in the holes on a cheap contract to round out a roster.

IMO Toronto needs to get a solid 1st liner if not this year then next but needs to start rebuilding their prospect pool if they hope to be a successful playoff team or a team that can compete int he playoffs consistently.

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