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Describing the post lock-out NHL in one word.....

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Old
01-31-2011, 02:59 PM
  #51
Barbara Underhill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Is that what they were really going for? A return to the roots of the game? I thought that's what the outdoor games were for.
It's what they should go for in my opinion, the outdoor games are just as much a gimmick as the all star game only reason more people don't moan about it is because it's worth two points in the standings.

All I am getting at is it could be worse, and it could be a lot lot better. If they did strip it down to it's roots. Hockey is one of the most beautiful things to watch even on a frozen pond just tell them to play like kids.

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01-31-2011, 03:01 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Tube Sock View Post
It's what they should go for in my opinion, the outdoor games are just as much a gimmick as the all star game only reason more people don't moan about it is because it's worth two points in the standings.
They are a gimmick. But at least what we've seen of them is something that resembles hockey where they is hitting, defense and actually some speed to the game.

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01-31-2011, 03:04 PM
  #53
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If nothing else, the All Star game creates a much needed break before the home stretch of the season.

I don't really have any interest in watching it; I much prefer the skills comp, but I'm not offended by the fact that it even exists like some folks seem to be.

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01-31-2011, 03:23 PM
  #54
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Things like the ASG, the outdoor game, and the shootout are intended to attract new fans or reign in the casual fans. Diehards will watch their favorite teams regardless and don't need those events in order to make the game more enjoyable or watchable.

The problem is, there's no way to determine if things like the shootout have actually attracted fans. If the game is growing, I don't think it's necessarily because of the shootout. With the Winter Classic, on the other hand, I actually know of a few people who tune into hockey on a more regular basis because of the event.

My biggest gripe about the post-lockout NHL is inconsistency in officiating and discipline. The league is starting to get it in regards to blindside hits but there is still work to be done. It's becoming increasingly clear to me that players who have already suffered a concussion have a target on their backs, and the league needs to be aware of this. I also think the instigator rule needs to be done away with, which tends to protect players who engage in dirty play rather than punishing them.

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01-31-2011, 03:23 PM
  #55
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01-31-2011, 03:26 PM
  #56
Rob Zepp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
When were there ever a false dynasty?
NO way Oiler/Islander teams could exist today given CAP/Bonus considerations. They were not "false" for their time but that is old history, that is why comparing things like Cups etc. from other eras to anything post CAP era is irrelevant for anything more than beer conversation.

The playing field has been nicely leveled.....far more open for teams to rise up and compete in a quicker time period. Again, that equals FAIR

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01-31-2011, 03:36 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Rob Zepp View Post
NO way Oiler/Islander teams could exist today given CAP/Bonus considerations. They were not "false" for their time but that is old history, that is why comparing things like Cups etc. from other eras to anything post CAP era is irrelevant for anything more than beer conversation.

The playing field has been nicely leveled.....far more open for teams to rise up and compete in a quicker time period. Again, that equals FAIR
My point is if you draft well, develop talent and build chemistry, that's not a false dynasty.

Detroit drafted Yzerman, Federov, Lidstrom and McCarty.


The Isles drafted Bossy, Trottier, Potvin and Gillies.

That's not buying a Cup.

I think the cap is negative because it's prevents teams like the Red Wings and Islanders. Look to Chicago, they had a great young core that they developed but had sell off pieces. Why should a team be punished for drafting well and being successful?

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01-31-2011, 03:38 PM
  #58
Rob Zepp
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Double post.


As far as drafting well, they also had some HIGHLY paid veterans that were overpaid and didn't work out. It is not "punishment", it is giving everyone an equal shot. You seem to think that tilting the table is acceptable, I don't. Agree to disagree.

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01-31-2011, 03:43 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Rob Zepp View Post
Double post.


As far as drafting well, they also had some HIGHLY paid veterans that were overpaid and didn't work out. It is not "punishment", it is giving everyone an equal shot. You seem to think that tilting the table is acceptable, I don't. Agree to disagree.
Well, you mentioned teams can buy a Stanley Cup. Who did that?

You mentioned false dynasties and then mentioned the Isles and Red Wings. I don't see how a team can draft three or four hall of famers and have that be a false dynasty. That's just a dynasty.

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01-31-2011, 03:53 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
My point is if you draft well, develop talent and build chemistry, that's not a false dynasty.

Detroit drafted Yzerman, Federov, Lidstrom and McCarty.


The Isles drafted Bossy, Trottier, Potvin and Gillies.

That's not buying a Cup.

I think the cap is negative because it's prevents teams like the Red Wings and Islanders. Look to Chicago, they had a great young core that they developed but had sell off pieces. Why should a team be punished for drafting well and being successful?
They had a great young core that they tanked to get.

The same can be said that the cap rewards for drafting, if you look at the Rangers of the cap-era and the Rangers pre-cap.

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01-31-2011, 03:57 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
They had a great young core that they tanked to get.

The same can be said that the cap rewards for drafting, if you look at the Rangers of the cap-era and the Rangers pre-cap.
I'm not sure they tanked. They were a victim of awful ownership (games weren't even televised). They made a great rebound with a very good, young core. And they made shrewd moves (trading for Sharp and Ladd)

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01-31-2011, 04:05 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I'm not sure they tanked. They were a victim of awful ownership (games weren't even televised). They made a great rebound with a very good, young core. And they made shrewd moves (trading for Sharp and Ladd)
True, but you can't deny the engines on that team were their high end picks. I think they'll continue to be a good team simply because of Kane, Toews (even with how overrated he is, he's still very good), and Keith surrounded with complimentary guys who do their job effectively.
Either way, you can only say the cap punished them because they basically ignored it and, IMO, they were more worried about a one and done than a perennial contender and thus swept the cap under the rug.

The cap promotes drafting a young core for most teams, and then even guys like the Wings, who have the best management in the NHL, have been able to abide by the cap while keeping their stacked team.

The only thing I think the cap punishes is bad management.

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01-31-2011, 04:05 PM
  #63
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.

At first I was not a fan of the shoot-out.

I never had a problem with a tie game before. I thought that there were more than enough hard earned ties.

To me, the absolute need for a winner and a loser wasn't needed.

I think it's mor ethan fair that a team can get outplayed and perserve a point by ecking out a tie. I never was upset with that.

I liked that we went to 4 on 4 in OT. It opened yp the game and allowed teams that were clearly better the opportunity to use that superiority to get the goal needed to beat those less fortunate teams.

I still think that extending the OT to 10 minutes at 4 on 4is still better than going to the shootout.

It lends itself to more penalties being creating more 4 on three situations and if you look at most OT's that have a penalty to one team, more often than not the team with the man advantage wins that game.

That said, I have enjoyed the shootouts because I get to see some of the best players in the best game display the talents that I admire.

It's not my 1st choice on how to end a game, but it's not that bad either.

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01-31-2011, 04:10 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Well, you mentioned teams can buy a Stanley Cup. Who did that?

You mentioned false dynasties and then mentioned the Isles and Red Wings. I don't see how a team can draft three or four hall of famers and have that be a false dynasty. That's just a dynasty.
Uh, I didn't once mention the Wings. Where did I mention the Wings?

I don't have a problem drafting 10 HHOF players but if the cannot make them all fit under the cap, they will have to figure out which ones will fit their team. Otherwise, your model is tank for six or so years in a row and then dominate for a couple.....repeat as necessary.

Oh, and I guess I have now mentioned the Wings but I didn't before nor were they even in my head....though now you mention them and there team costs prior to CAP era, would they have been as successful with 1/2 that payroll to work with?

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01-31-2011, 04:13 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
True, but you can't deny the engines on that team were their high end picks. I think they'll continue to be a good team simply because of Kane, Toews (even with how overrated he is, he's still very good), and Keith surrounded with complimentary guys who do their job effectively.
Either way, you can only say the cap punished them because they basically ignored it and, IMO, they were more worried about a one and done than a perennial contender and thus swept the cap under the rug.

The cap promotes drafting a young core for most teams, and then even guys like the Wings, who have the best management in the NHL, have been able to abide by the cap while keeping their stacked team.

The only thing I think the cap punishes is bad management.
Kane and Toews are certainly the engine. But Keith they got in the 2nd round. Brouer in the 7th. Byfuglien in the 8th. Hjalmarsson in the 4th.

They traded for the aforementioned Sharp and Ladd, but also Versteeg and Kopecky.

T

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01-31-2011, 04:14 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Rob Zepp View Post
Uh, I didn't once mention the Wings. Where did I mention the Wings?

I don't have a problem drafting 10 HHOF players but if the cannot make them all fit under the cap, they will have to figure out which ones will fit their team. Otherwise, your model is tank for six or so years in a row and then dominate for a couple.....repeat as necessary.

Oh, and I guess I have now mentioned the Wings but I didn't before nor were they even in my head....though now you mention them and there team costs prior to CAP era, would they have been as successful with 1/2 that payroll to work with?
Sorry. I mixed up the Red Wings withe Oilers. But the Oilers are the same deal.

I have a huge problem when you have trade/lose players you draft.

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01-31-2011, 04:28 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Sorry. I mixed up the Red Wings withe Oilers. But the Oilers are the same deal.

I have a huge problem when you have trade/lose players you draft.
I don't. If you can't keep those players because you didn't manage their contractual status properly, particularly as they were developing you signed older players to overpriced long-term deals, you don't have my sympathy at all.

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01-31-2011, 04:29 PM
  #68
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A few complaints.

- Phantom Calls: Way too many of them, and some at very important points in games. They're usually followed by IOU calls at some point in the game. Just call the game how it's supposed to be called, or keep the whistles in the pockets and let em play.

- Non-Calls on Dirty plays: guys like Crosby, Malkin, and Subban slewfooting Rangers multiple times and getting away with it is ********. Burrows' cupcheck on Staal is another I can think of. Refs looking RIGHT AT the dirtball plays as their happening and letting them go. God forbid someone Cup-checked Crosby or Ovechkin, there'd be an uproar from the NHL.

- Superstar Treatment: Teams like the Penguins and Capitals getting tons of phantom calls and other ******** that happens. Calls and non-calls that these teams get on a nightly basis that help them out. Bettman needs to get over the fact that neither of these guys are Gretzky, Messier, or Lemieux.
Yawn, everything you said has been going on for at least the last 27 years. I will have to ask my dad about the 38 years prior that he watched.

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Get rid of the trapezoid and really if they want to grow the game, get it back on ESPN already.
Sound like a cause and effect there. Maybe not having the trapezoid helped the league lose the ESPN slot in the first place. Allowing goalies to smother the puck in the corner as well as pass to center ice while at the same time avoiding all contact is what hurt the game.

Also, I don't understand the "growing the game" crap. I hear that junk all the time. It sounds like a buzz word NHL executives push on us. What really happens is the real fans talk about what is good for the game, but all that happens is that real fans get squeezed out for the casual fans every time the league goes ahead and does "what is good for the game."

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01-31-2011, 04:45 PM
  #69
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ESPN treated hockey like a 4th class citizen. Why would the NHL go back there? Versus has improved enough that they deserve to carry on, and now that Comcast owns NBC the NHL will stay with them. Yes, they need to continue to try to increase access by pushing cable systems and hotels. Otherwise, they are fine.

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01-31-2011, 04:54 PM
  #70
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01-31-2011, 09:30 PM
  #71
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ESPN treated hockey like a 4th class citizen. Why would the NHL go back there?
Because everyone in the country have ESPN.... How many have VS?

I have fond memories of watching NHL2Night and playoff hockey games on ESPN... I have no problems with the league going back there.... Better than the 2 games a week that VS was broadcasting....

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01-31-2011, 10:11 PM
  #72
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Crosby

Bettmans hand picked poster boy, much like himself, a complete jerk.


I love all the rule changes.
The Trap-Love it. Goalies handling the puck makes the game boring.
No two line pass rule-hooray.
Shootouts make me happy.

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01-31-2011, 11:23 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
My one word for post lockout NHL:

Inconsistent.
I'm not exactly sure what you mean by this. Could you kindly elaborate?

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02-01-2011, 09:14 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
My biggest gripe about the post-lockout NHL is inconsistency in officiating and discipline. The league is starting to get it in regards to blindside hits but there is still work to be done. It's becoming increasingly clear to me that players who have already suffered a concussion have a target on their backs, and the league needs to be aware of this. I also think the instigator rule needs to be done away with, which tends to protect players who engage in dirty play rather than punishing them.
I tend to think that inconsistent officiating and discipline has always existed...

All in all I can't complain about the NHL post-lockout too much. The game was cleaned up so much from the clutch and grab it used to be. Yeah it's annoying sometimes when a guy gets called for a penalty where his stick just barely grazed the other players gloves, but there used to be such ridiculous interference and holding all the time that it's really nice to just be able to see players skate and use their skills.

not a huge fan of the shootout, but don't hate it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I think the cap is negative because it's prevents teams like the Red Wings and Islanders. Look to Chicago, they had a great young core that they developed but had sell off pieces. Why should a team be punished for drafting well and being successful?
Would be interesting to see the cap structured so that you're given a cap discount on signing your own drafted players. Like only 2/3rds of the average salary counts against the cap or something. Or being able to designate 3 "core" players who have a reduced cap hit. Something creative like that to help teams retain their drafted players.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Zepp View Post
Double post.


As far as drafting well, they also had some HIGHLY paid veterans that were overpaid and didn't work out. It is not "punishment", it is giving everyone an equal shot. You seem to think that tilting the table is acceptable, I don't. Agree to disagree.
The tables are still tilted and will always be tilted until every team has the actual money to be able to spend to the cap. Teams like the Islanders or Coyotes who literally can't even make money by spending to the cap floor are never going to be on the same level playing field as other teams. You can't just keep pandering to the lowest common denominator, and there will never be pure parity.

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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
Because everyone in the country have ESPN.... How many have VS?

I have fond memories of watching NHL2Night and playoff hockey games on ESPN... I have no problems with the league going back there.... Better than the 2 games a week that VS was broadcasting....
Remember when ESPN canceled NHL2Night? Are you really confident that ESPN is going to treat the NHL worth a damn?

That's my biggest concern. In theory it'd be great to get the NHL back on ESPN, but if they can't get some kind of guarantees about games and coverage then **** it

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