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Habs could be interested in Phillips and Kaberle(Per Lebrun)

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Old
02-08-2011, 03:32 AM
  #351
Hackett
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Originally Posted by SenzZen View Post
Last time I checked, a hockey game is decided by one team scoring at least 1 more goal than their opponent- it's not first-team-to-5.

JM's system will never translate into a high-powered offence, but dependable people on the back-end go a long way to help it.
It certainly can if he has the right tools to work with. He's had high scoring teams before.

Anyways, defense still needs to be the priority though. You got two workhorses out for the season, and now james wisniewski is the new #1 d-man if you go by ice time. You are also one more injury away on the back end to have alex picard dressing for you in the playoffs.

You also need to be weary of aging vets like hamrlik and spacek and the increased role they are taking up due to the gorges and markov injuries. They are holding up for now, but that can change pretty quickly.

This is why I feel that the defense is the higher priority.

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02-08-2011, 08:23 AM
  #352
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Originally Posted by JimCareyPrice View Post
Lately Phillips has been giving nightly highlight reel appearances for the wrong reasons. Weber is progressing nicely and I think I'd take my chances with him over a guy that costs assets and might bolt in July.
Yeah, but I'm sure the trade deadline and the overall performance of the team is a pretty big factor there...I think you have to take that into consideration, usually a change of scenery helps guys like him.

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02-08-2011, 08:26 AM
  #353
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Originally Posted by Hackett View Post
It certainly can if he has the right tools to work with. He's had high scoring teams before.

Anyways, defense still needs to be the priority though. You got two workhorses out for the season, and now james wisniewski is the new #1 d-man if you go by ice time. You are also one more injury away on the back end to have alex picard dressing for you in the playoffs.

You also need to be weary of aging vets like hamrlik and spacek and the increased role they are taking up due to the gorges and markov injuries. They are holding up for now, but that can change pretty quickly.

This is why I feel that the defense is the higher priority.
Hamrlik and especially Spacek have seen their ice time dropped since Wisniewski's arrival with Subban playing more.

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02-08-2011, 08:33 AM
  #354
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Originally Posted by GoodKiwi View Post
People here are always obsessed with defense. Mistakes in our own end are more evident to them I guess. No one wants to see our impotent () offense.

Teams with less GPG than us: TOR, EDM, NYI, OTT, NJD.

Case closed.
I wonder what holds back someone from understanding that a defenseman is sometimes an integral part of the offense.

Prime examples are Wiz, who would be a top 5 offensive player on most teams, and Markov who is that too.

A guy like Subban who's had 12 points in his last 15 games.

Getting another D doesn't mean we won't upgrade our offense.

Even adding another Defensive D might make us better offensively, as it will give more offensive latitude to Subban and Wiz.

Some people just have a very limited view of hockey.

We might be 25th for scoring, but oddly enough, the stat that really matters is +/- and we're close to the top10 for that...

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02-08-2011, 08:39 AM
  #355
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How many years have we heard that Teemu Selanne was best bud with Saku Koivu and that Selanne would sign in Montreal? Hey, we even heard that Ovechkin is buddy with Markov and that Ovy would request a trade before he signed that big contract!

While I'm not saying that Kaberle wouldn't sign here, let's not jump to conclusions that he would simply because of friendships. If he's truly interested, let's wait this summer as the asking price by Burke is apparently pretty high.

In addition, being one of the best defensive team in the NHL and one of the worst offensive ones, I'd rather focus on using the assets that we have for scoring and size up front.
Yet all of that becomes suddenly legitimate when it's time to go into alarmist mode "Ovy is buddy with Markov, Markov will sign with the Caps." "Plex is buddy with Kabs, Plex'll sign with TO"















Oh, but wait....
(drum roll)

Didn't Koivu sign with Anaheim to be with his buddy Selanne??


(carnival failling sound)

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02-08-2011, 10:46 AM
  #356
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No thanks....we have enough decent defencemen right now!!!

The Habs need help with toughness, size and more scoring ability. We need a guy like Scott Hartnall or Dustin Penner for our top 6. The Habs could also use some added toughness on the bottom 6 forwards too.

If the Habs could aquire Penner and Stortini from the Oilers for Kostitsyn, Picard and a draft pick....or something along those lines, it would be a perfect deal and would add some much needed size and grit to the forwards.

Thats my opinion anyways.

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02-08-2011, 10:58 AM
  #357
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Originally Posted by Pleky Roks View Post
No thanks....we have enough decent defencemen right now!!!

The Habs need help with toughness, size and more scoring ability. We need a guy like Scott Hartnall or Dustin Penner for our top 6. The Habs could also use some added toughness on the bottom 6 forwards too.

If the Habs could aquire Penner and Stortini from the Oilers for Kostitsyn, Picard and a draft pick....or something along those lines, it would be a perfect deal and would add some much needed size and grit to the forwards.

Thats my opinion anyways.
We could have had Stortini for free last week, so PG is not interested.

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02-08-2011, 11:40 AM
  #358
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Don't get me wrong I know Phillips would play well for us. To those of you saying he won't stats aren't everything, bad year on a bad team.

New team new chemistry new rest of year = win for players like Phillips especially since it's a contract year on a new team.

That being said I'd prefer we make the trade that helps us more in the future in Kaberle. Re-sign Hammer/Gorges for a fair rate, maybe Gill but preferably let him walk. Keep Spacek for one more season try to deal him at the deadline with picks/prospects for another solid D and then we'll make a run then. Adding Phillips would just be as a rental imo and honestly would only make us better for this playoff. I'm all for going for a cup run but I don't want to waste assets on a guy I'd personally prefer to let walk. We should sign Wiz, Gorges and Hammer. We have Spacek (sadly) and Subban (awesome) already. That leaves 1 spot (Weber) and a #8 spot (Carle)

If we did get Kaberle I'd have to figure we'd be trading Weber or Carle + a pick.

If you trade for Phillips it means one of Phillips or Wiz isn't being re-signed more than likely, cause Hammer will stay for a price cut.

It's a bad movie imo. If you trade for Kaberle you'd likely keep Wiz cause then you likely aren't re-signing Markov but even if you did Wiz would become a lot more redundant then.

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02-08-2011, 11:50 AM
  #359
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleky Roks View Post
No thanks....we have enough decent defencemen right now!!!

The Habs need help with toughness, size and more scoring ability. We need a guy like Scott Hartnall or Dustin Penner for our top 6. The Habs could also use some added toughness on the bottom 6 forwards too.

If the Habs could aquire Penner and Stortini from the Oilers for Kostitsyn, Picard and a draft pick....or something along those lines, it would be a perfect deal and would add some much needed size and grit to the forwards.

Thats my opinion anyways.
What a brutal trade that would be! If you are frustrated with Kostitsyn then you will hate Penner. Kostitsyn is far more skilled and plays a much more physical game.

Stortini is AHL garbage...............

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02-08-2011, 12:05 PM
  #360
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Lately Phillips has been giving nightly highlight reel appearances for the wrong reasons. Weber is progressing nicely and I think I'd take my chances with him over a guy that costs assets and might bolt in July.
I REALLY don't think the Habs fans who want Chris Phillips in Montreal, have been watching him play this year.

This isn't just a situation of a good player playing on a bad team, it's a good player making TERRIBLE decisions that a veteran of his status should NEVER make. Again, I have alot of trouble understanding this fanbase, we rip on Spacek daily it seems for the blunders he makes, yet Chris Phillips makes mistakes you're taught in pee-wee never to make, yet people want him here?

I guess it's true what they say, the grass is always greener (or appears to be) on the other side.

Sens are going to pull a fast one on a team who acquires Chris Phillips...the guy is brutal, his fall from grace is Redden'esque

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02-08-2011, 12:06 PM
  #361
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Good player and all, but the cost and the fact that he's just another soft, puck moving defenseman doesn't help.

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02-08-2011, 12:25 PM
  #362
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Good discussion here. Keep it up. Fact of the matter, though, is that, any which way you look at it, we have Gill playing Top 4 minutes, while he should be a 6th-guy. Unless they get help back there, you will NOT see this team get better in the transition game, and creating more scoring opportunities. JM knows that. That's why a ROOKIE like Subban has been playing more than 20 minutes per game, which is not normal for a contending team.

Against the Devils, the defensive corps looked tired. As it should be: it has been battered down over the last month. If Gauthier doesn't move, this team COULD very well be looking out at the playoff picture by March 15. Sorry, but Gill and Spotcheck CAN'T play top 4 minutes continually.

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02-08-2011, 12:26 PM
  #363
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I'm more scared of PG not moving for cost saving purposes, coming from Geoff. I hope it's not the case.

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02-08-2011, 12:26 PM
  #364
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I REALLY don't think the Habs fans who want Chris Phillips in Montreal, have been watching him play this year.

This isn't just a situation of a good player playing on a bad team, it's a good player making TERRIBLE decisions that a veteran of his status should NEVER make. Again, I have alot of trouble understanding this fanbase, we rip on Spacek daily it seems for the blunders he makes, yet Chris Phillips makes mistakes you're taught in pee-wee never to make, yet people want him here?

I guess it's true what they say, the grass is always greener (or appears to be) on the other side.

Sens are going to pull a fast one on a team who acquires Chris Phillips...the guy is brutal, his fall from grace is Redden'esque
Personally I like Kaberle and want us to make a push for him. But Phillips just because he's having an awful year on an awful team even playing awful himself, doesn't necessarily mean he'll do the same on another team. It isn't just Phillips playing badly. If it weren't for one or two key players who stepped up that team would be #30.

It's only a few players really who are good. Look at Fisher he's been awful and been playing awful too. Should a team not take the risk even though he could bounce back?

If anything all it means is the team taking Phillips would have to give up less.

Again not saying I want Phillips, but we can't just assume because he's having one bad year on a team where everyone is playing badly that he's going to play badly for us or any other team.

You bring up Spacek and when I think back Spacek showed up in the playoffs for us last season like him or not. Whose to say Phillips can't do the same for a team heading into the post season?

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02-08-2011, 12:31 PM
  #365
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Chris Phillips is playing in an awful environment, under an awful hockey system. Any good defenceman will look like gold in Montreal. Look at Wiz. Or even Gill for that matter.

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02-08-2011, 12:35 PM
  #366
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I have wanted Gauthier to make a trade, but now I change my mind. It would be better for us going forward to stay the course with what we have, if that means a first round exit in the playoffs then so be it. We are more than a Phillips or a Penner away from being a contender. It would also lead to more decisions in the off season about who to keep and who to let go. I would add some depth at D before the trade deadline but not a big splash type trade that might only set us back in the long term.

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02-08-2011, 12:39 PM
  #367
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I may have a different take on this but I think PG is dropping the ball when it comes to signing our UFA/RFA. Who we acquire, short of a month long rental, will impact next years roster. I would try and extend Markov, Wiz and Gorges now.

Next year
Markov - Subban
Gorges - Wiz
Spacek - Weber

Then if done successfully you deal for the power forward, Weiss etc...

If Markov isnt in the plans or Wiz is trouble to sign, you deal for the D-man.

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02-08-2011, 12:39 PM
  #368
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I have wanted Gauthier to make a trade, but now I change my mind. It would be better for us going forward to stay the course with what we have, if that means a first round exit in the playoffs then so be it. We are more than a Phillips or a Penner away from being a contender. It would also lead to more decisions in the off season about who to keep and who to let go. I would add some depth at D before the trade deadline but not a big splash type trade that might only set us back in the long term.
It is an unacceptable decision if you're the MOntreal Canadiens. Early exits mean less money to pay the huge debt. Not sure Geoff would agree to that. Unless he decided that the cash saved on Markov and Gorges would be better off in the partners' pockets.

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02-08-2011, 12:39 PM
  #369
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Personally I like Kaberle and want us to make a push for him. But Phillips just because he's having an awful year on an awful team even playing awful himself, doesn't necessarily mean he'll do the same on another team. It isn't just Phillips playing badly. If it weren't for one or two key players who stepped up that team would be #30.

It's only a few players really who are good. Look at Fisher he's been awful and been playing awful too. Should a team not take the risk even though he could bounce back?

If anything all it means is the team taking Phillips would have to give up less.

Again not saying I want Phillips, but we can't just assume because he's having one bad year on a team where everyone is playing badly that he's going to play badly for us or any other team.

You bring up Spacek and when I think back Spacek showed up in the playoffs for us last season like him or not. Whose to say Phillips can't do the same for a team heading into the post season?
I don't disagree with anything you say, but the point i've been trying to make all along is that Chris Phillips really doesn't add anything to the Habs defense they don't already have. Sure, added experience won't hurt, but i'd rather not give up a future asset for a player we already have reasonable fascimiles of.

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02-08-2011, 12:41 PM
  #370
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Good discussion here. Keep it up. Fact of the matter, though, is that, any which way you look at it, we have Gill playing Top 4 minutes, while he should be a 6th-guy. Unless they get help back there, you will NOT see this team get better in the transition game, and creating more scoring opportunities. JM knows that. That's why a ROOKIE like Subban has been playing more than 20 minutes per game, which is not normal for a contending team.

Against the Devils, the defensive corps looked tired. As it should be: it has been battered down over the last month. If Gauthier doesn't move, this team COULD very well be looking out at the playoff picture by March 15. Sorry, but Gill and Spotcheck CAN'T play top 4 minutes continually.
Totally agreed DD...but as it relates to Phillips, I just don't see how he's able to help the team in those specific areas.

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02-08-2011, 12:43 PM
  #371
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I may have a different take on this but I think PG is dropping the ball when it comes to signing our UFA/RFA. Who we acquire, short of a month long rental, will impact next years roster. I would try and extend Markov, Wiz and Gorges now.

Next year
Markov - Subban
Gorges - Wiz
Spacek - Weber

Then if done successfully you deal for the power forward, Weiss etc...

If Markov isnt in the plans or Wiz is trouble to sign, you deal for the D-man.
That is a gnome-like defensive corps. Nothing in there to scare opponents.

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02-08-2011, 12:44 PM
  #372
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Originally Posted by deandebean View Post
Good discussion here. Keep it up. Fact of the matter, though, is that, any which way you look at it, we have Gill playing Top 4 minutes, while he should be a 6th-guy. Unless they get help back there, you will NOT see this team get better in the transition game, and creating more scoring opportunities. JM knows that. That's why a ROOKIE like Subban has been playing more than 20 minutes per game, which is not normal for a contending team.

Against the Devils, the defensive corps looked tired. As it should be: it has been battered down over the last month. If Gauthier doesn't move, this team COULD very well be looking out at the playoff picture by March 15. Sorry, but Gill and Spotcheck CAN'T play top 4 minutes continually.
Spacek was playing 16-17 minutes a night before Wisniewski went out(last 2 games).

It would take a pretty big collapse for us to miss the playoffs...all 3 of the Rangers(3 back but we have 2 games in hand), Thrashers(7 back but we have 2 in hand) or Carolina(7 back but they have a game in hand on us) would have to pass us. Atlanta only has 26 games to make up 7 to 11 points on us.

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02-08-2011, 12:45 PM
  #373
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Totally agreed DD...but as it relates to Phillips, I just don't see how he's able to help the team in those specific areas.
Maybe it's not Phillips, then. But they need someone else.

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02-08-2011, 12:46 PM
  #374
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Spacek was playing 16-17 minutes a night before Wisniewski went out(last 2 games).

It would take a pretty big collapse for us to miss the playoffs...all 3 of the Rangers(3 back but we have 2 games in hand), Thrashers(7 back but we have 2 in hand) or Carolina(7 back but they have a game in hand on us) would have to pass us. Atlanta only has 26 games to make up 7 to 11 points on us.
Wiz is not a 24 min. a game player. He's just not. And that's how JM HAD to use him because of low depth. If Wiz is your number one guy, then this team has a major problem.

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02-08-2011, 12:53 PM
  #375
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Maybe it's not Phillips, then. But they need someone else.
Sure...but I don't think they should mortage too much of the future for this player because odds are this player you speak off will cost a fortune to acquire. I think the Habs defense as is, while probably not ideal is good enough to make a run in the playoffs this year and depending on matchup (because that's what it comes down to in the playoffs) could surprise and pull out another run like last year.

It may not show now, but guys like Subban/Weber are gaining a HUGE amount of experience in the race to qualify for the playoffs.

Almost every single NHL team is looking to add that player you're referring too ahead of the playoffs...there aren't too many dmen available who can play in your top 4, contribute both offensively and defensively and are available at the deadline.

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