This whole conversation is worthless, Forbort might hold the lowest value of any of the Kings "top defensemen" to the Oilers just because he is gonna take so much longer to develop.
Because Muzzin, Voynov and our other more seasoned prospects are going to turn 30 in 2 years?
Trading Forbort for what we need now (Penner) is ok by me. That is a good hockey trade. Give the Oilers what they need (build for the future) while giving us a solid player in his prime that fills a need.
No, you dont trade him for Penner because Voynov could be heading back to Russia, Muzzin could re-injure his back, Hickey could be a total bust and you might need a big 2 way defenseman like Forbort in a few years.
Seriously people. This is not that hard.
Voynov, Muzzin, Martinez and possibly Hickey are NHL ready right now.
That's in addition to already having
Doughty for x number of years.
Johnson for 7 more after this one.
Mitchell for 1 more after this one.
Scuderi for 2 more after this one.
Greene for 3 more after this one.
Drewiske for 2 more after this one.
In 4 years we could have Doughty and Johnson and maybe Voynov/Hickey/Teubert and a kid like Forbort could make a nice transition to a top 4 defenseman.
Bottom line is that too many prospects are ready now and there aren't enough spots for them all. The advancement of prospects needs to be staggered.
No, you dont trade him for Penner because Voynov could be heading back to Russia, Muzzin could re-injure his back, Hickey could be a total bust and you might need a big 2 way defenseman like Forbort in a few years.
That's a reach brother. I think Derek has great upside but if teams thought like this, you would never see young prospects traded. I would rather get stronger now and for the next several years to contend for the Cup than worry about what may happen to Voynov, Muzzin, Hickey and not make a move. This is all academic anyway. No way Oilers make this move. They would have to lube themselves up if this trade went down.
No, you dont trade him for Penner because Voynov could be heading back to Russia, Muzzin could re-injure his back, Hickey could be a total bust and you might need a big 2 way defenseman like Forbort in a few years.
Seriously people. This is not that hard.
Voynov, Muzzin, Martinez and possibly Hickey are NHL ready right now.
That's in addition to already having
Doughty for x number of years.
Johnson for 7 more after this one.
Mitchell for 1 more after this one.
Scuderi for 2 more after this one.
Greene for 3 more after this one.
Drewiske for 2 more after this one.
In 4 years we could have Doughty and Johnson and maybe Voynov/Hickey/Teubert and a kid like Forbort could make a nice transition to a top 4 defenseman.
Bottom line is that too many prospects are ready now and there aren't enough spots for them all. The advancement of prospects needs to be staggered.
Sorry, I don't believe Voynov is NHL ready now, at least let him play in the NHL before you can say he that, he might be for all I know, but for all you know, he can show up and play like Martinez did last year, so let's not be too hasty on who is NHL ready now and who isn't.
As far as not trading Forbort because Muzzin might re-injure his back, Voynov might leave, etc, disagree, you have a position of strength right now, you trade from it, and if you think in 2 years we might need Voynov, Muzzin, Hickey, YOU KEEP THOSE GUYS, the same guys you say are NHL ready, you keep them, trade a project guy with an upside,
Let's say we make this trade, and 6 years go by,
You still have,
Doughty, Johnson, Martinez, Voynov, Muzzin, Hickey, Teubert, Kolomaitis, Campbell, plus you have the 6 years that go by, to draft or trade for young D etc....
You are insinuating that if we trade Forbort, that he is the last of the young D we will ever have....
You don't watch Penner much do you. The guy is huge and he does not go full out during each shift as he is just too big for that. When he needs the burst of speed he has it. He is also a beast on the puck and in front of the net. He never gets injured to add to it. Sorry to say but we are not interested in Hickey and if that is all you are willing to give then you guys will not be getting a top 6 winger and probally won't make the playoffs, but I guess you as fans are ok with that.
What you are asking for is Perposterous,DPenner is not worth DForbort. He'd be worth THickey and not much more! Penner is nearing 30 while Hickey is just 22 this year. Sure Penner is big but doesn't play that way often enough. All because Penner is a LWer doesn't mean he'll jell with AKopitar...As for not making the play-offs, didn't you finish last last year...Oilers haven't had much of a track record lately have they?
What you are asking for is Perposterous,DPenner is not worth DForbort. He'd be worth THickey and not much more! Penner is nearing 30 while Hickey is just 22 this year. Sure Penner is big but doesn't play that way often enough. All because Penner is a LWer doesn't mean he'll jell with AKopitar...As for not making the play-offs, didn't you finish last last year...Oilers haven't had much of a track record lately have they?
Wake up Penner is only 27, big difference than 30. He has another year left on his contract.
I am fine with not trading Penner, I just figured you guys need a winger to play with Kopitar and if a deal could be worked out we have Penner.
YOu guys keep Forbort we will keep Penner, we are fine coming in last this year, you guys need help just to make the playoffs and I thought it was fair for both teams.
We dont want Martiniz or Hickey so we are fine with Penner, good luck
Wake up Penner is only 27, big difference than 30. He has another year left on his contract.
I am fine with not trading Penner, I just figured you guys need a winger to play with Kopitar and if a deal could be worked out we have Penner.
YOu guys keep Forbort we will keep Penner, we are fine coming in last this year, you guys need help just to make the playoffs and I thought it was fair for both teams.
We dont want Martiniz or Hickey so we are fine with Penner, good luck
If you don't want Martinez, or Hickey and would rather have Forbort, you are in the same boat as Kings fan who wouldn't trade Forbort ffs.
Wake up Penner is only 27, big difference than 30. He has another year left on his contract.
I am fine with not trading Penner, I just figured you guys need a winger to play with Kopitar and if a deal could be worked out we have Penner.
YOu guys keep Forbort we will keep Penner, we are fine coming in last this year, you guys need help just to make the playoffs and I thought it was fair for both teams.
We dont want Martiniz or Hickey so we are fine with Penner, good luck
Every team would want Hickey and/or Martinez. That is asinine to say.
I am not saying that, I am saying if we are going to trade Penner or Hemsky we want a dman that has a bigger up side and that is Forbort.
Based on what?
I follow Forbort closely and really like his upside but your simply way under rating Martinez and Hickey and way over rating Forbort at this point in his career.
Martinez is a solid 4/6 pmd who is an exceptional skater and in a season or two will be running a second PP unit on a team that has Doughty and Johnson. He may not be a true #1/2 guy but he has already proven himself to be a steady solid pmd. Om the Oilers today he would be on your second pairing right now.
Hickey is a gamble but what most people overlook is that he was out last cut this year and is playing very well on the farm. His upside is true number 1 pmd with exceptional leadership. His downside is that he is Martinez.
They are both young young dmen who have either proven themselves as being capable to solid NHL dman like Martinez or have proven them self ready for their NHL shot and look like they will in time develop into a top pairing pmd in Hickey.
What Forbort has over both of these two is size. As much as I love him Forbort doesn't yet appear to be a top pairing dman so his size is the only thing that I can believe you are basing your opinion on.
Its true, Forbort will always have a "bigger upside" if all you are looking at is his height.
I am not saying that, I am saying if we are going to trade Penner or Hemsky we want a dman that has a bigger up side and that is Forbort.
Ales Hemsky will be gone soon! He's not in Edmonchuk's plans. He's injury prone and makes too much money for what he does. The Kings have youngsters that play the RW that they are fine with. Plus they have players on the farm and in juniors that will be LA very soon, so keep Hemsky the Kings don't need him...
PS Penner is not a star,he's a good third line guy just like 7Mmilllion dollar man SHorcoff. Teams that play these players any higher are in trouble!!!Hence the Oilers find thenselves in a familiar spot last or next to last...
Ales Hemsky will be gone soon! He's not in Edmonchuk's plans. He's injury prone and makes too much money for what he does. The Kings have youngsters that play the RW that they are fine with. Plus they have players on the farm and in juniors that will be LA very soon, so keep Hemsky the Kings don't need him...
PS Penner is not a star,he's a good third line guy just like 7Mmilllion dollar man SHorcoff. Teams that play these players any higher are in trouble!!!Hence the Oilers find thenselves in a familiar spot last or next to last...
You don't know much about Penner, he is a top 6 not a 3rd liner, your so funny.
No, you dont trade him for Penner because Voynov could be heading back to Russia, Muzzin could re-injure his back, Hickey could be a total bust and you might need a big 2 way defenseman like Forbort in a few years.
Seriously people. This is not that hard.
Voynov, Muzzin, Martinez and possibly Hickey are NHL ready right now.
That's in addition to already having
Doughty for x number of years.
Johnson for 7 more after this one.
Mitchell for 1 more after this one.
Scuderi for 2 more after this one.
Greene for 3 more after this one.
Drewiske for 2 more after this one.
In 4 years we could have Doughty and Johnson and maybe Voynov/Hickey/Teubert and a kid like Forbort could make a nice transition to a top 4 defenseman.
Bottom line is that too many prospects are ready now and there aren't enough spots for them all. The advancement of prospects needs to be staggered.
I agree. If you're gonna trade a defenseman, trade one of the NHL-ready guys that's currently blocked. Voynov, Muzzin, Drewiske, Hickey, Harrold, Martinez. Let Forbort develop.
I agree. If you're gonna trade a defenseman, trade one of the NHL-ready guys that's currently blocked. Voynov, Muzzin, Drewiske, Hickey, Harrold, Martinez. Let Forbort develop.
At the head of the class of D-men that the Los Angeles Kings are developing with the Manchester Monarchs is Vyacheslav Voynov. He's the leading scorer right now with 12 goals and 25 assists in 47 games. He can rush the puck,blast it from the point and play sound positional defensive hockey. Besides that he's also a right-handed shot...which is invaluable... After him the Kings probably have Jake Muzzin(LD),Thomas Hickey(LD),Colten Teubert(RD), Andrew Campbell(LD),David Kolomatis(RD) and Patrick Mullen(RD). Derek Forbort(LD) with Nicolas DesLauriers(LD-RD) are their top college-junior Dmen. Of this cast 5-6 make it to the NHL. Will they all make it to the Kings...time will tell...For now though the Kings are letting them develop...with WMitchell's and RScuderi's contracts just about up(1 and 2 years respectively),Voynov,Muzzin,Hickey,Teubert and Forbort are alternatives(cheaper ones at that) to filling their spots and with a lengthy road trip to determine LA's fate,those spots might be filled sooner rather than later...
PS The Kings aren't likely to trade any of their young D-men...and aren't trading Voynov,he's part of the young studs they have that are going to take the the Kings upward and onward...count on it...DPenner isn't worth a second rounder,besides he's practically an old man...who has what 3-4 good years(20 goals) left. The Kings need a 40 goal scorer on the wings and aren't going to sell the "Farm" to attain it...they know the road to true success is to build it the slow but steady way with talent flowing in continuously...Look for the Kings to draft a wingman with a scorer's touch this year(2011) and in following years...
Was one of the final cuts in camp...and I thought he should have had a spot over Muzz.
Johan Fransson was the D-man you would have thought had the inside track on a roster spot back in September. He had pro experience in Sweden and Switzerland and was wasn't a fuzzy cheeked teen or second year pro. Thus far Fransson has put up some pretty decent numbers having compiled a 0.44 clip his last 3 years of pro hockey. Was really surprized that he was loaned to SKA St Petersburgh. Have sort kept track of his play there. That Defense in the"Burgh"(DGrebeshkov,DMarkov,VVishnevskiy,SZubov ,JFransson)can probably compete in the NHL. Any ideas what the Los Angeles Kings have in store for Fransson. Thought he'd be the puckrusher we desperately were seeking. Hope Fransson still can play in the NHL. Wonder if there are any NHL clubs looking to add him...I know he didn't want to play in AHL and pull in 65-75 Grand with the hope of being recalled...
At the head of the class of D-men that the Los Angeles Kings are developing with the Manchester Monarchs is Vyacheslav Voynov. He's the leading scorer right now with 12 goals and 25 assists in 47 games. He can rush the puck,blast it from the point and play sound positional defensive hockey. Besides that he's also a right-handed shot...which is invaluable... After him the Kings probably have Jake Muzzin(LD),Thomas Hickey(LD),Colten Teubert(RD), Andrew Campbell(LD),David Kolomatis(RD) and Patrick Mullen(RD). Derek Forbort(LD) with Nicolas DesLauriers(LD-RD) are their top college-junior Dmen. Of this cast 5-6 make it to the NHL. Will they all make it to the Kings...time will tell...For now though the Kings are letting them develop...with WMitchell's and RScuderi's contracts just about up(1 and 2 years respectively),Voynov,Muzzin,Hickey,Teubert and Forbort are alternatives(cheaper ones at that) to filling their spots and with a lengthy road trip to determine LA's fate,those spots might be filled sooner rather than later...
PS The Kings aren't likely to trade any of their young D-men...and aren't trading Voynov,he's part of the young studs they have that are going to take the the Kings upward and onward...count on it...DPenner isn't worth a second rounder,besides he's practically an old man...who has what 3-4 good years(20 goals) left. The Kings need a 40 goal scorer on the wings and aren't going to sell the "Farm" to attain it...they know the road to true success is to build it the slow but steady way with talent flowing in continuously...Look for the Kings to draft a wingman with a scorer's touch this year(2011) and in following years...
When the Kings were playing the Oilers your GM stated that he as a lot of young dman in the system and is looking at moving prospects and picks to get a LW in LA. That came right from his mouth, so I don't know where you are getting your info.
If you want to get a 40 goal scorer you can add Schenn plus for a goal scorer.
I am not saying that, I am saying if we are going to trade Penner or Hemsky we want a dman that has a bigger up side and that is Forbort.
Is this a joke? You obviously know very little about Forbort if your questioning his upside....
Numerous scouts said on multiple occasions that Forbort possibly had the highest upside of ANY Dman in his draft class....Yes, that means over the likes of Fowler, Gormley, ect.... Thats how impressed they were with his raw ability...
Yes, he is still raw and wont be in the NHL next year, but he is absolutely projected as a 1/2 Dman and has the making to turn into a star player....It really has to do with his development, and I think its safe to say that being at North Dakota will do nothing but help him get there....
If you guys were looking for a potential 1st pairing dman with a great 2 way game, he would be EXACTLY what you would want....not that i want the Kings to even trade him....
Why would Kings Trade BSchenn...he will be their Second line centre for the next 10-15 years...
Right we trade Schenn and a draft pick for some LW who isn't yet identified...Not going to happen buddy not in a million years
Or even a JVR and Zherdev for forbort++ (maybe Forbort, Jones, and a second for JVR and Zherdev)
but for Penner pssst! hell no.
LOL. What on earth makes you think that is a fair trade? Forbort is nobody, Jones is half of nobody, a second is nobody. JVR is a budding awesome power forward and when Zherdev is on he is a fantastic scorer. Forbort, Jones + 2nd is probably the starting point for JVR alone.
I'm like a couple months in the past when it seemed like JVR was starting to look like a project at best and Zherdev went back and fourth from the fourth line to being a healthy scratch. I do realize that things are on the up and up with the both them now but I still think you might be over valuing them both at the same time. plus philly may not need to trade JVR at this point but at this point they certainly don't have to keep him. with Briere finally earning his re donk u lous contract and, Giroux steping up in a bigger way than anyone expected, Leino looking to sign a deal as a play-off hero, Richards will die in a flyers jersey, maybe Phyers fans wont be trolling around these boards trying to extract maximum value out of a Carter trade if signing JVR in the future wasn't looming. by the time Pronger hangs his skate Forbort would be ready to step in....
make the second a first and add Toffoli and Parse.
JVR, Zherdev for Forbort, Jones, Toffoli, Parse, 2011first.
I think both teams and all players involved win this trade. (except Zherdev will hate temu) but if still no I'd be willing to throw more on top.
