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Trade Deadline Talk II

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Old
02-21-2011, 12:53 PM
  #926
DUHockey9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
4/6 of Holmgren's offseason additions(including Leighton here) have sucked, and people really didn't believe us critics when we said he had a horrible off season.

Mez and OD were the 2 succesful one.

Leighton- Waived
Walker- Waived
Zherdev- Going to be traded for low value, or even waived
Shelley- A bit better than I expected but still sucks and isn't worth 3 years at 1.1
Haha yep.

Although, for accuracy's sake, my opinions on the offseason moves were as follows:

Leighton: Vomit
Shelley: Double Vomit
Walker: Triple Vomit
OD: Loved it
Mez: 50/50. I liked him as a player but questioned the price we paid, as well as the risk involved in trading for an underperforming player at his cap hit.
Zherdev: I liked it. I thought it was minimal risk, being it was only 2 million for a very skilled guy.

It's just that the first 3 make the risk involved in the last 2 WAYYYYYY more magnified. Luckily, we hit on Mez.

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Old
02-21-2011, 01:39 PM
  #927
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
4/6 of Holmgren's offseason additions(including Leighton here) have sucked, and people really didn't believe us critics when we said he had a horrible off season.

Mez and OD were the 2 succesful one.

Leighton- Waived
Walker- Waived
Zherdev- Going to be traded for low value, or even waived
Shelley- A bit better than I expected but still sucks and isn't worth 3 years at 1.1
The major issue here is that for 2/4 you listed (Walker/Shelley), no one was expecting them to do anything. They weren't acquired to be all-stars. We all knew they would suck. Leighton only sucked because he was injured. Who knows how he would have looked playing behind this defense all year. Yes, he may have been bad, but he also could have been the same as he was last year. Zherdev was a low risk high reward type player that didn't pan out, but he hasn't been anything less than we expected. He can score and he is lazy. We all knew that. Also you left out Bobrovsky. While I am not a fan of the Shelley/Walker moves that much, you can't fault him for Leighton or Zherdev. Leighton played well for Philly last season and he concealed an injury (apparently). Yes there were other goalies available but they were all on the same level. Zherdev was going to be a a replacement for Gagne, and if he was playing every day he likely would have matched his numbers, but he just wasn't a fit in this system. But I guess going to the finals last season and being in the race for the President's Trophy this season just isn't good enough for some people.

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Old
02-21-2011, 01:55 PM
  #928
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
The major issue here is that for 2/4 you listed (Walker/Shelley), no one was expecting them to do anything. They weren't acquired to be all-stars. We all knew they would suck. Leighton only sucked because he was injured. Who knows how he would have looked playing behind this defense all year. Yes, he may have been bad, but he also could have been the same as he was last year. Zherdev was a low risk high reward type player that didn't pan out, but he hasn't been anything less than we expected. He can score and he is lazy. We all knew that. Also you left out Bobrovsky. While I am not a fan of the Shelley/Walker moves that much, you can't fault him for Leighton or Zherdev. Leighton played well for Philly last season and he concealed an injury (apparently). Yes there were other goalies available but they were all on the same level. Zherdev was going to be a a replacement for Gagne, and if he was playing every day he likely would have matched his numbers, but he just wasn't a fit in this system. But I guess going to the finals last season and being in the race for the President's Trophy this season just isn't good enough for some people.
Wait so it's ok to spend assets and 2.8 million dollars a season on players as long as you don't expect them to do anything?

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Old
02-21-2011, 01:56 PM
  #929
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You can't fault him for overpaying for Leighton? Really?

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Old
02-21-2011, 01:58 PM
  #930
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
You can't fault him for overpaying for Leighton? Really?
Not to mention overpaying him the day BEFORE free agency started.

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Old
02-21-2011, 02:00 PM
  #931
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Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
Not to mention overpaying him the day BEFORE free agency started.
Yeah, it's actually pretty easy to find legitimate critique of his handling of the Leighton signing.

1) There was no reason to sign him prior to July 1st.

2) There was no way Leighton had earned the contract he gave him.

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Old
02-21-2011, 02:03 PM
  #932
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Top 25 players on the block, possibly....

http://www.thefourthperiod.com/trade...p25/index.html

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Old
02-21-2011, 02:08 PM
  #933
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
4/6 of Holmgren's offseason additions(including Leighton here) have sucked, and people really didn't believe us critics when we said he had a horrible off season.

Mez and OD were the 2 succesful one.

Leighton- Waived
Walker- Waived
Zherdev- Going to be traded for low value, or even waived
Shelley- A bit better than I expected but still sucks and isn't worth 3 years at 1.1
I think it's kind of unfair to list all these but leave out the signing of Bobrovsky.

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Old
02-21-2011, 02:09 PM
  #934
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Yeah, it's actually pretty easy to find legitimate critique of his handling of the Leighton signing.

1) There was no reason to sign him prior to July 1st.

2) There was no way Leighton had earned the contract he gave him.
It's amazing to me the past two off-seasons, for a team who refuses to spend any kind of money on goaltender are so desperate to have guys in the stable before they're all snatched up 5 minutes after free agency begins, and supposedly drive the market up.

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Old
02-21-2011, 02:13 PM
  #935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
It's amazing to me the past two off-seasons, for a team who refuses to spend any kind of money on goaltender are so desperate to have guys in the stable before they're all snatched up 5 minutes after free agency begins, and supposedly drive the market up.
It was somewhat understandable the year before with Emery. They hadn't witnessed the absolute destruction of the goaltending market... and they were grabbing an UFA that everyone could negotiate with already.

Leighton... ugh.

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Old
02-21-2011, 02:17 PM
  #936
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
Wait so it's ok to spend assets and 2.8 million dollars a season on players as long as you don't expect them to do anything?
I didn't say they didn't overpay for him, but it really isn't a gross overpayment when compared to other guys around the league. Yeah, it could have saved $.8-$1 million, but that is splitting hairs. Players like SHelley and Walker get signed or traded every year and they play their roles. Certain players are not acquired with hopes of taking home any hardware. The extra $1 million wouldn't have kept Gagne here. It wouldn't have brought in Vokoun or another goalie of that status. The Flyers would likely still have the same team with maybe a different 13th forward.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
You can't fault him for overpaying for Leighton? Really?
I thought we agreed we wouldn't get back into this discussion again? Based on the preceding season, Leighton Earned a substantial raise. It doesn't matter how much you think he sucks, he put up good numbers and backstopped the team to the Stanley Cup Finals. Anyone who did that would get a raise from $600k (I think that was his salary last season). Maybe $1.5 was a bit much (though, I don't think it was) but it's not like he was going to sign for $500k just because he is Michael Leighton. He played well enough the season before to earn a raise. End of story. If any goalie on the planet put up his numbers and was the goalie on the Eastern Conference Champions and was making $600k the year before, they are going to get a raise. That is how it works. You have a good year in your contract year, you get a raise.

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Old
02-21-2011, 02:47 PM
  #937
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I thought we agreed we wouldn't get back into this discussion again? Based on the preceding season, Leighton Earned a substantial raise. It doesn't matter how much you think he sucks, he put up good numbers and backstopped the team to the Stanley Cup Finals. Anyone who did that would get a raise from $600k (I think that was his salary last season). Maybe $1.5 was a bit much (though, I don't think it was) but it's not like he was going to sign for $500k just because he is Michael Leighton. He played well enough the season before to earn a raise. End of story. If any goalie on the planet put up his numbers and was the goalie on the Eastern Conference Champions and was making $600k the year before, they are going to get a raise. That is how it works. You have a good year in your contract year, you get a raise.
Sure, give him a raise... he didn't deserve 1.5M... so he was overpaid. Moreover, he shouldn't have been signed prior to July 1st.

I don't give a flying **** what he was making the year before. Goalies are getting killed by the market these days, and Leighton shouldn't have gotten 1.5M for two friggin years based on a small sample of games. Especially after he was embarrassed in the SCFs.

And if you don't want to get into it, don't say BS like "You can't fault him..." You absolutely can. Easy to avoid that discussion, don't start it yourself.

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Old
02-21-2011, 02:58 PM
  #938
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Sure, give him a raise... he didn't deserve 1.5M... so he was overpaid. Moreover, he shouldn't have been signed prior to July 1st.

I don't give a flying **** what he was making the year before. Goalies are getting killed by the market these days, and Leighton shouldn't have gotten 1.5M for two friggin years based on a small sample of games. Especially after he was embarrassed in the SCFs.

And if you don't want to get into it, don't say BS like "You can't fault him..." You absolutely can. Easy to avoid that discussion, don't start it yourself.
You can't fault him though. Leighton played well enough to be given a raise and be the starter next season. End of discussion. This is a silly point to argue because of what happened with the injuries and such so there is no way to tell if he would have been as good as what we have now or he would have been worse. The bottom line is that he earned what he got. Did it pan out? No. Is that Holmgren's fault? No.

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Old
02-21-2011, 03:00 PM
  #939
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TSNBobMcKenzie Bob McKenzie
DAL trades James Neal and Matt Niskanen to PIT for Alex Goligoski.

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Old
02-21-2011, 03:07 PM
  #940
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Originally Posted by healthyscratch View Post
TSNBobMcKenzie Bob McKenzie
DAL trades James Neal and Matt Niskanen to PIT for Alex Goligoski.
How stupid is Nieuwendyk

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Old
02-21-2011, 03:08 PM
  #941
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Originally Posted by healthyscratch View Post
TSNBobMcKenzie Bob McKenzie
DAL trades James Neal and Matt Niskanen to PIT for Alex Goligoski.
Wtf? I thought they loved Neal in Dallas?

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Old
02-21-2011, 03:08 PM
  #942
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Dallas just got reamed.

WTF

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Old
02-21-2011, 03:12 PM
  #943
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**** us. Seriously, **** us.

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Old
02-21-2011, 03:13 PM
  #944
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Quote:
Originally Posted by healthyscratch View Post
TSNBobMcKenzie Bob McKenzie
DAL trades James Neal and Matt Niskanen to PIT for Alex Goligoski.
Holy ****. That deal is ridiculous. I would take Niskanen OR Neal over Goligoski and they got both. Wow. And Dallas is still in the playoffs. And they are both signed for another year. This trade blows my mind.

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Old
02-21-2011, 03:14 PM
  #945
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Very good trade for Pittsburgh. Niskanen is perfectly capable of replacing Goligoski's production by himself. Then they get a 23-year old who has 30-35 goal potential.


I've also not been a fan of Nieuwendyk as a GM.

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Old
02-21-2011, 03:15 PM
  #946
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Wow. I can't get over this. I wonder if the Flyers offered Carle for that if they would have accepted? I would have done Carle, the first for Versteeg, and the third for Versteeg for Neal and Niskanen. Damn that was a stupid move by Dallas.

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Old
02-21-2011, 03:19 PM
  #947
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Dallas got shafted REALLY hard by this trade.

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Old
02-21-2011, 03:21 PM
  #948
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
You can't fault him though. Leighton played well enough to be given a raise and be the starter next season. End of discussion. This is a silly point to argue because of what happened with the injuries and such so there is no way to tell if he would have been as good as what we have now or he would have been worse. The bottom line is that he earned what he got. Did it pan out? No. Is that Holmgren's fault? No.
Is that so dictator of Flyers-related discussion? Gimme a break.

The bottom line is that Leighton got overpaid (by at least 500K a year) for 25 games and some playoff wins against weak offensive teams before getting gutted like a fish in the SCFs. He showed in the SCFs why he wasn't good enough to get us where we needed to go, and that should have been the end of it. It wasn't.

Instead, Holmgren signed him prior to July 1st after flirting briefly with Turco and Nabokov, and overpaid for him in the process.

So, by the definition of "overpayment" (which you yourself hinted might be a true critique above) he specifically did not earn what he got.

You think it's a fair contract? Fine, but get over yourself with declaring the discussion over due to your myopic take on what went down. Neither you or I get to "end the discussion" and frankly, I'm not the only one that feels this way about that contract (clearly)... hell, there was a post written by one of the stats guys right after the deal outlining how Leighton was overpaid.

http://www.behindthenethockey.com/20...signs-with-phi

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Old
02-21-2011, 03:21 PM
  #949
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Good trade for the Pens, gotta say.

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Old
02-21-2011, 03:28 PM
  #950
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In fairness, Leighton, right now, is a starting goaltender in the Flyers organization.



Holmgren was banking on rewarding Leighton for helping save the season, and figured they had the next Tim Thomas.

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