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Phil Kessel

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Old
02-04-2011, 10:58 AM
  #251
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Originally Posted by Tim Vezina Thomas View Post
So why would a rebuilding team model themselves after those teams who have one good winger who isnt helping them.....Thats exactly my point, for example, the islanders have NOTHING else but Tavares and prospects, why would they spend a top pick on a complementary player like Kessel?

Kessel needs to go to a team with a great center and great other pieces like mentioned before...hed flirt with 50 if he went to the Penguins for example.
Because 1 good player can't do it on his own.

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02-04-2011, 11:13 AM
  #252
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Not sure why. Boston has regressed without him.
Lol we're sixth in scoring w/o our number one centerm and our number two center underperforming. I'll take it.

And its funny, the Leafs GPG went from 2.98 the year before Kessel, to 2.56 the next year, to 2.49 so far this year...but I'm sure you have an explanation why that was.


Last edited by Tim Vezina Thomas: 02-04-2011 at 11:26 AM.
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02-04-2011, 11:18 AM
  #253
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Here is why we are having this discussion Kessels is not playing like the player Toronto traded for 2 years ago and his “Flashes” of brilliance have been few and far between this year. I admit when Burke obtained Kessel I thought it was a high price but I also thought Kessel certainly had the potential to be a top 5 forward in the NHL. But this year regardless of whom he is playing with he is taking massive strides backwards and he looks terribly out of shape. Kessel especially when he was obtained looked like a guy that no matter how bad Toronto was he would be the top scorer on the Leafs. This year he is 4th in team scoring and only 2 points out of 7th!!! This is not indicative of his talent level displayed years earlier and I truly believe it has to due with the shape that he is currently in! For a 23 year old he looks like a 30+ year old Joe from Pros VS Joes! Its alarming and hypothetically if all Leaf players were UFA’s at the end of this year and they were selling everyone I would try and buy 4 – 6 different Leafs before I looked at Kessel for a stretch run this year! That’s where his value is at right now!

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02-04-2011, 11:35 AM
  #254
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Not sure why. Boston has regressed without him.
Honestly, you and TVT should both quit while you're not too far behind- the last few pages is just pointless bickering. Really, who cares this much?

Anyways, just to the above point- how has Boston regressed exactly without him? This just seems to be a random comment thrown out there that has no actual fact basis. If they have regressed, I'd like to know how- though I'm doubtful that talk belongs in a thread regarding the value of Phil Kessel....

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02-04-2011, 11:57 AM
  #255
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Originally Posted by Dwatson783 View Post
Honestly, you and TVT should both quit while you're not too far behind- the last few pages is just pointless bickering. Really, who cares this much?

Anyways, just to the above point- how has Boston regressed exactly without him? This just seems to be a random comment thrown out there that has no actual fact basis. If they have regressed, I'd like to know how- though I'm doubtful that talk belongs in a thread regarding the value of Phil Kessel....
Statistically they have regressed.

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02-04-2011, 12:00 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by Tim Vezina Thomas View Post
Lol we're sixth in scoring w/o our number one centerm and our number two center underperforming. I'll take it.

And its funny, the Leafs GPG went from 2.98 the year before Kessel, to 2.56 the next year, to 2.49 so far this year...but I'm sure you have an explanation why that was.
The team stinks that's why. 1 guy can't do it alone. The 2.98 year had a lot of guys overachieve like Stajan and Ponikarovsky.

Burke traded a heck of a lot of offense away last year in the Giggy/Phaneuf deals.

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02-04-2011, 12:05 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
The team stinks that's why. 1 guy can't do it alone. The 2.98 year had a lot of guys overachieve like Stajan and Ponikarovsky.

Burke traded a heck of a lot of offense away last year in the Giggy/Phaneuf deals.
b-b-b-b-b-but I thought Kessel didn't need Savard... Kessel is an elite goal scorer and franchise winger....

awwww....

How the times have changed once you see Kessel for what he is.

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02-04-2011, 12:10 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by Seguins Dragon View Post
b-b-b-b-b-but I thought Kessel didn't need Savard... Kessel is an elite goal scorer and franchise winger....

awwww....

How the times have changed once you see Kessel for what he is.
Kessel didn't and still doesn't need Savard. He's been a 30 goal scorer while playing alongside 2nd/3rd liners and AHL talent. That being said, Every 1st line player needs a half decent set of linemates to produce, it doesn't make them not elite goalscorers or franchise wingers.

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02-04-2011, 12:17 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by Seguins Dragon View Post
b-b-b-b-b-but I thought Kessel didn't need Savard... Kessel is an elite goal scorer and franchise winger....

awwww....

How the times have changed once you see Kessel for what he is.
Huh? I'm saying one guy can't turn a franchise into a contender. What does Savard have to do with it? The Kessel needs Savard argument was killed last year when Kessel got 30 goals in 70 games coming off an injury and played with crappy linemates.

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02-04-2011, 12:20 PM
  #260
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You don't see the hypocrisy in one post saying "Kessel doesn't need Savard, he is fantastic elite goal scorer"

and than in another thread post "Kessel's lack of points is due to not having a top line C, he is playing with Bozak and Joey Crabb"

You really don't see the hypocrisy in that???

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02-04-2011, 12:22 PM
  #261
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
The team stinks that's why. 1 guy can't do it alone. The 2.98 year had a lot of guys overachieve like Stajan and Ponikarovsky.

Burke traded a heck of a lot of offense away last year in the Giggy/Phaneuf deals.
Very true but he is sapose to be the best player on the team??? He is 5th in scoring and 2 points out of 7th?????? Not what you expect from your franchise player

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02-04-2011, 12:27 PM
  #262
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You're wasting your time.

When Kessel plays well, its because hes one of the best goal scorers in the galaxy and the "How do you like the trade now!" threads pop up.

When Kessel doesn't play well, which is most of the time, you see people complaining about his line mates, even though they called Bozak a bonafide #1 last year when he played well.


Its hypocritical, its hilarious, its many things. Just sit back and enjoy the ride.

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02-04-2011, 12:29 PM
  #263
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Originally Posted by Canuck and Bills Fan View Post
Seeing Kessel`s point production right now and his mediocre performance so far this year I am wondering what value you would offer Toronto for Kessel right now? I am betting at least 90% of all NHL teams would not trade a single first round pick for Kessel right now.It was no shock he went last at the All Star game he was the worst player available. He did not look like a professional athlete I thought he was a contestant on Pros VS Joes. So would any NHL teams would offer Toronto a first for him! Would he even be a top 6 player on 50% of NHL teams right now Vancouver says NO!!! He would not play in the Canucks top 9 right now.
kessel is a legit top line winger... anyone that says different reveals way more about their own ability to understand hockey then they make a judgement of kessel.

im not saying kessel can be a top line winger on a team that is a favorite to win a cup though. he does seem to lack some aspects of the game that youd want in your top guy if you have that good of a team.

talent wise though, kessels already scored 40 goals in an 82 game schedule {yes playoff goals DO COUNT MORE then regular season goals} and yes he does rank easily in the top 30 for goal scorers over the last 3 years despite battling mono and cancer and playing without a center for the least couple seasons.

only an idiot would say there are 90 more legitimate first line players in the NHL. There are 90 guys I consider to be better winners then Kessel but there arent 50 guys I consider to have more talent to produce offense and the stats back it up

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02-04-2011, 12:37 PM
  #264
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How about instead of 90, you make it 30, seeing as how like most players in the NHL, Kessel plays position, not 3.

He is a top talent goal scorer in the league, and has good speed. Everything else with his game is sorely lacking.

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02-04-2011, 12:37 PM
  #265
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Originally Posted by Seguins Dragon View Post
You don't see the hypocrisy in one post saying "Kessel doesn't need Savard, he is fantastic elite goal scorer"

and than in another thread post "Kessel's lack of points is due to not having a top line C, he is playing with Bozak and Joey Crabb"

You really don't see the hypocrisy in that???
he got 30 goals in 70 games without Savard last year, and will likely get 30+ this year with even weaker linemates. ...not too hard to figure out is it??

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02-04-2011, 12:39 PM
  #266
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Originally Posted by Seguins Dragon View Post
You don't see the hypocrisy in one post saying "Kessel doesn't need Savard, he is fantastic elite goal scorer"

and than in another thread post "Kessel's lack of points is due to not having a top line C, he is playing with Bozak and Joey Crabb"

You really don't see the hypocrisy in that???
No I don't. Kessel was suppose to barely hit 20 goals without the easy "Tap-Ins" Savard gave him. Do you not remember that?

What's wrong with wanting better for him than Joey Crabb? He can score with crappy linemastes. He proved that last year. 30 goals in 70 games. Argument is dead. You seem to have not noticed.

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02-04-2011, 12:39 PM
  #267
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Statistically they have regressed.
Really? Hmmmm....

Comparing this year to the last year with Kessel we see better GAA now than then, a slight drop in Goals scored but essentially a trade off for the GAA drop off... Our ES GF/GA is better, our PP is slightly worse but that's been improving after a bad slump....our PK is better, our shots per game has gone up....our winning % when having a lead though has jumped significantly.

We can say that the average points taken away from each game is slightly down and I'd accept that- we had a bad spell in the middle of this season, but in comparing the game played by this team to the team then, there really isn't a regression.

So other than just saying, "Statistically" (which btw, doesn't really matter as the Stanley Cup isn't given to a team based on statistics), mind giving a bit more insight? Or does real insight elude you?

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02-04-2011, 12:40 PM
  #268
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he got 30 goals in 70 games without Savard last year, and will likely get 30+ this year with even weaker linemates. ...not too hard to figure out is it??
Hes on pace for 30 this year, not 30 plus. You know what else hes on pace for? 54 points. Not anything to write home about, that's for sure.

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02-04-2011, 12:41 PM
  #269
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So your telling me that THIS year 2010-2011 your team is a contender and your able to take any current Leaf you would take the Leaf 5th in scoring over a McArthur or Grabs?? You just showed you have AMAZING hockey sense!!!!!

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02-04-2011, 12:43 PM
  #270
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Originally Posted by Canuck and Bills Fan View Post
So your telling me that THIS year 2010-2011 your team is a contender and your able to take any current Leaf you would take the Leaf 5th in scoring over a McArthur or Grabs?? You just showed you have AMAZING hockey sense!!!!!
Who the hell are you even talking to?

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02-04-2011, 12:43 PM
  #271
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Really? Hmmmm....

Comparing this year to the last year with Kessel we see better GAA now than then, a slight drop in Goals scored but essentially a trade off for the GAA drop off... Our ES GF/GA is better, our PP is slightly worse but that's been improving after a bad slump....our PK is better, our shots per game has gone up....our winning % when having a lead though has jumped significantly.

We can say that the average points taken away from each game is slightly down and I'd accept that- we had a bad spell in the middle of this season, but in comparing the game played by this team to the team then, there really isn't a regression.

So other than just saying, "Statistically" (which btw, doesn't really matter as the Stanley Cup isn't given to a team based on statistics), mind giving a bit more insight? Or does real insight elude you?
I noticed you left out their record... That has regressed. They haven't been as good since that trade.

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02-04-2011, 12:47 PM
  #272
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
I noticed you left out their record... That has regressed. They haven't been as good since that trade.
The year Thomas and Fernandez shared awards for their amazing play in net for Boston?

Oh, I know! Maybe its because Kessel was playing amazing defence, blocking shots and hitting guys through the glass.

No? He wasn't? In fact he was the teams weak link on defence you say?

Hmmmm..... well if that's the case, seems a little strange to try and link Bostons past success to Kessel since they are having no problem with scoring right now, which is the only thing he ever brought to the team.

Oh well. You can try again with something else right?

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02-04-2011, 12:47 PM
  #273
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No I don't. Kessel was suppose to barely hit 20 goals without the easy "Tap-Ins" Savard gave him. Do you not remember that?

What's wrong with wanting better for him than Joey Crabb? He can score with crappy linemastes. He proved that last year. 30 goals in 70 games. Argument is dead. You seem to have not noticed.
I never said he would have only 20 goals... it was a select minority, I called them out at the time, and still agree, they were blind homers\haters.

I am not arguing anything, I am calling out your hypocrisy... you can't in one thread gush and go on about how amazing Kessel is and how he doesn't need Savard... than the very next say "Well he only is on pace for 54 points because he has no center to play with"

That is hypocrisy.

I'm out. Carry on.

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02-04-2011, 12:50 PM
  #274
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Who the hell are you even talking to?
Sorry is this not a thread about Kessels value??? Was that not a comment on Kessels value??? Oh waite yes and yes it is I made the thread!!!

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02-04-2011, 12:50 PM
  #275
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I noticed you left out their record... That has regressed. They haven't been as good since that trade.
Thats like saying we have a worse record since PJ Axellson left. Phil Kessel is not the only reason.

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