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Stortini on Waivers

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Old
02-01-2011, 06:15 PM
  #226
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Originally Posted by Master Lok View Post
I've seen them all too Replacement. Weir. Hunter. Cleary. I remember liking Cleary even during his tough years when he just. could. not. score. But I liked his effort and the change in his focus into becoming a more well-rounded defensive player, it was noticeable on the ice.

I see that in Cogliano this year.

To compare Jacques to Weir, Hunter and Cleary? You're really stretching Replacement. Take a step back and see Jacques for what he is.

Is Jacques playing better this year? Sure is. But he played so terrible in previous years that that's not that difficult. Truly, he was bleeding terrible - as in cannot take a pass he's that bad. But he is better this year. But to compare him to Dan Cleary? Different player, different role, different result.
Rather than a direct comparison I was making a point.

LMHF and I have had long discussions about the relative value of offensive vs defensive players. By my recollection and past memory he didn't think that much about the past contributions of defensive players on the Edmonton Oilers and we've afairc talked about players like this before and their relative value. Which is again why I brought it up.

I'm not stating Jacques or Fraser are any of these players. But they arguably approach the closest we got. I just find it odd that people are writing off JFJ at the exact point he is playing his best hockey.

It makes no sense to kick him to the curb now.

Does it?

ps Cleary is and always was way stronger than Cogliano. Just wasn't so noticeable because we had some strong guys back then. Cogs, like Gagner needs to work on his strength.


Last edited by Replacement: 02-01-2011 at 06:22 PM.
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02-01-2011, 06:21 PM
  #227
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You
Well if you think i am ready for it, i have a mean right hook thou and am afraid its not to girly :/

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02-01-2011, 06:27 PM
  #228
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Rather than a direct comparison I was making a point.

LMHF and I have had long discussions about the relative value of offensive vs defensive players. By my recollection and past memory he didn't think that much about the past contributions of defensive players on the Edmonton Oilers and we've afairc talked about players like this before and their relative value. Which is again why I brought it up.

I'm not stating Jacques or Fraser are any of these players. But they arguably approach the closest we got. I just find it odd that people are writing off JFJ at the exact point he is playing his best hockey.

It makes no sense to kick him to the curb now.

Does it?

ps Cleary is and always was way stronger than Cogliano. Just wasn't so noticeable because we had some strong guys back then. Cogs, like Gagner needs to work on his strength.
That's why this thread is "Stortini waived" not "JFJ waived". But the larger point is, if this team is successful ever again, it won't have JFJ on it. If he maintains his pace he'll be fine fourth line filler on the worst team in hockey. Faint praise indeed.

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02-01-2011, 06:41 PM
  #229
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When u start to feel sorry for a guy as i did for stortini when he lost his fights and he cant play icehockey at this level then its time to let go.

ot. now they killing one of the streamsources http://atdhe.net/index.html

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02-01-2011, 07:05 PM
  #230
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
I just find it odd that people are writing off JFJ at the exact point he is playing his best hockey.
If this crap is his best hockey, good riddance to him. We need good hockey players, not players that have absolutely no game changing influence to their game. And I'm not basing this on this year, I've been watching this guy suck sack since he came here. To my eyes, he has no hockey sense or technical skill, and the hits he makes are so ineffective and useless he makes Cogliano's hits look like game changers.

Tell one time where any type of play, be it a hit, fight, assist, goal, blocked puck, clearance from the D zone, or neutral zone play has changed the tide of the game in the Oilers favor. (sorry for the runon sentence)

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02-01-2011, 07:11 PM
  #231
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Originally Posted by Dorian2 View Post
If this crap is his best hockey, good riddance to him. We need good hockey players, not players that have absolutely no game changing influence to their game. And I'm not basing this on this year, I've been watching this guy suck sack since he came here. To my eyes, he has no hockey sense or technical skill, and the hits he makes are so ineffective and useless he makes Cogliano's hits look like game changers.

Tell one time where any type of play, be it a hit, fight, assist, goal, blocked puck, clearance from the D zone, or neutral zone play has changed the tide of the game in the Oilers favor. (sorry for the runon sentence)
We have too many "game changers" on this club if you haven't noticed.

Trouble is they change the result to a loss. JFJ is one of the few that doesn't. I guess that means he's the worst crap on the team though.

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02-01-2011, 07:46 PM
  #232
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Bring back Georges.

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Old
02-01-2011, 08:06 PM
  #233
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When he first broke into the league he did everything he could to stay in the NHL, as the years went by his play went south. Maybe he got complacent that he had made it and started to enjoy the NHL lifestyle. He doesn't hit as much anymore and really isn't as tenacious as he once was, those attributes made him effective and a pain in the rear for the opposition. As bad as he is overall skill wise, he made up for it with his aggressive play. But unfortunately for him he didn't do that enough to even stay in the line up. I wish him all the best and if he does ever crack another NHL line up, he needs to remember what got him there and never take anything for granted.

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02-01-2011, 08:15 PM
  #234
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My question is why would Renney separate Hall from Horcoff. Hall has been on fire since Horcs return.

Lines at practice

Dustin Penner - Shawn Horcoff - Ales Hemsky
Taylor Hall - Andrew Cogliano - Ryan Jones
Magnus Paajarvi - Sam Gagner - Linus Omark
Liam Reddox - Colin Fraser - Jordan Eberle / JF Jacques

As long i Hall is with Horcoff or Eberle I'm Happy.
Other than the first and third, those lines look awful. Hall and Eberle mixed in with checkers and energy guys. Assuming he's healthy, swap Eberle and Jones. It would be nice if Cogs found offensive chemistry with the kids.

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02-01-2011, 08:19 PM
  #235
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I wonder what line Storts will play on in OKC.

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02-01-2011, 08:20 PM
  #236
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I wonder what line Storts will play on in OKC.
Hopefully the one that has a cushion on it!

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02-01-2011, 08:26 PM
  #237
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ot. now they killing one of the streamsources http://atdhe.net/index.html
Damn.

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02-01-2011, 08:34 PM
  #238
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Damn.
check out atdhenet.tv, that's where they moved too.

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02-01-2011, 08:59 PM
  #239
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
This is a strange org. We saw fit to play Storts 256GP over 5 seasons and apparently try to develop him into some kind of role for some reason.

The reason never being quite clear.

We then abandon the player at the peak age of his career after suffering through years of his growing pains.

Lather, rinse, repeat.


I have no idea what this org thinks about.
Well sometimes they do not progress to the level or direction you had hoped. If you run into roster decisions sometimes you have to make a decision. Love the guy off the ice and his work ethic though.

I mean for me personally I used to defend Stortini quite a bit. I thought two seasons ago he was really starting to head in the right direction. Not just as a player shift to shift, but he had reduced the hugging, stalling etc... and was actually fighting and doing okay at it.

Since then the last two seasons for me he is going in the wrong direction. I hoped it was a just one bad year. But he seemed even worse this season. He seemed to lose his sense of when to engage or not, continued to cross the line between agitator and laughing stock, his hitting has seemed off and down the list.

I mean we put a lot of time into Marc Pouliot too. I thought it was time to cut him loose. We have seen this many times such as Mathieu Roy or Jani Rita etc... Maybe you cut them and they finally get it and catch on eventually and become a fringe NHLer like a Brad Winchester or a Troy Bodie.

Sometimes there comes a point where you have weigh things like roster spots, contract limits etc... against where the player you were trying to develop appears to be heading. The Oil apparently made that decision on Storts. I am with those that think a guy like JFJ should be next in line unless he really starts consistently showing something and soon.


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Originally Posted by HockeyFan4Life View Post
Hopefully the one that has a cushion on it!
Hey you never know he could end up being useful down there. The last time he had a little stint in the AHL he had I think something like 5 points in 4 games. When you get down to the AHL the skill level drops, the so-so skating becomes less of a problem etc...

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02-01-2011, 09:01 PM
  #240
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The irony here is just too much. I don't think there's a guy in NHL history with a worse win/loss record in fights than Bucky. He was game, but lord the guy got beat on. Just goes to show that winning or losing fights doesn't really mean much when it comes to actually playing the game.
That is somewhat ironic, but Bucky was able to be a very serviceable hockey player despite his fighting record. If Stortini had a fraction of the intangibles that Bucky did, we wouldnt be having this conversation about him being waived.

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02-01-2011, 09:10 PM
  #241
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
This is a strange org. We saw fit to play Storts 256GP over 5 seasons and apparently try to develop him into some kind of role for some reason.

The reason never being quite clear.

We then abandon the player at the peak age of his career after suffering through years of his growing pains.

Lather, rinse, repeat.


I have no idea what this org thinks about.
Waiving isnt abandoning. Hell, we waived Reasoner and after that he became a very respectable defensive center for us. Then we abandoned him at UFA.

Sometimes its just a necessary demotion for a player who is being passed on the depth chart. If he improves in the minors, then maybe he will find a spot again on the roster again. If not, then at least we have a young player that has improved enough to pass him.

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02-01-2011, 09:16 PM
  #242
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Originally Posted by Oilerdiehard View Post
Well sometimes they do not progress to the level or direction you had hoped. If you run into roster decisions sometimes you have to make a decision. Love the guy off the ice and his work ethic though.

I mean for me personally I used to defend Stortini quite a bit. I thought two seasons ago he was really starting to head in the right direction. Not just as a player shift to shift, but he had reduced the hugging, stalling etc... and was actually fighting and doing okay at it.

Since then the last two seasons for me he is going in the wrong direction. I hoped it was a just one bad year. But he seemed even worse this season. He seemed to lose his sense of when to engage or not, continued to cross the line between agitator and laughing stock, his hitting has seemed off and down the list.
C'mon. The huggy bear comments and Stortini can't fight worth **** digs were there from day one and I know it because I was one of the guys saying it. The org spent 5 yrs and 260GP on this guy. For whatever reason.

What this org needs to do a much better job of is actually recruiting validly to stock positions and not just filling with whatever junk they could find.

Check back here 4-5 yrs ago. Nobody thinks Storts is a hockey player way back then. Curiously though this org did. Or its just duping us for years and can't be bothered getting anything better.

No shame for Storts and good luck to him. But shame on the org for foisting 5 yrs of this player on us.


Quote:
I mean we put a lot of time into Marc Pouliot too. I thought it was time to cut him loose. We have seen this many times such as Mathieu Roy or Jani Rita etc... Maybe you cut them and they finally get it and catch on eventually and become a fringe NHLer like a Brad Winchester or a Troy Bodie.
The trouble with all these is they are just questionable prospects to begin with. Although I tried hard to cheer on Pouliot he was never my pick.

Quote:
Sometimes there comes a point where you have weigh things like roster spots, contract limits etc... against where the player you were trying to develop appears to be heading. The Oil apparently made that decision on Storts. I am with those that think a guy like JFJ should be next in line unless he really starts consistently showing something and soon.
JFJ had 158 hits last season in 49GP, he has another 60hits so far this year and looking to do the same. This is bad? He's even on the year. On a 30th place club. He deserves a medal for learning how to dog paddle in quicksand..

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02-01-2011, 10:03 PM
  #243
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It's about time.

JFJ and Fraser's days are numbered.

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02-01-2011, 10:05 PM
  #244
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check out atdhenet.tv, that's where they moved too.
haha. Awesome.

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02-01-2011, 10:17 PM
  #245
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
JFJ had 158 hits last season in 49GP, he has another 60hits so far this year and looking to do the same. This is bad? He's even on the year. On a 30th place club. He deserves a medal for learning how to dog paddle in quicksand..
Given that quicksand is more dense than the human body, all ya gotta do is stay calm and do nothing to keep your head above sand. I could ride the Oilers bench the whole season, do nothing, and come out even.

The only player with a lower average ice time (6:56) is MacIntyre (3:55). MacIntyre is also even, Stortini only a -2.

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02-01-2011, 10:58 PM
  #246
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I'm stoked for our boy Jacques.

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02-01-2011, 11:02 PM
  #247
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Given that quicksand is more dense than the human body, all ya gotta do is stay calm and do nothing to keep your head above sand. I could ride the Oilers bench the whole season, do nothing, and come out even.
haha, welldone, I see what you did there.

Quote:
The only player with a lower average ice time (6:56) is MacIntyre (3:55). MacIntyre is also even, Stortini only a -2.
But this just makes the hit totals all the more impressive. A hitting buzzsaw out there. What else should JFJ do with his limited minutes?

Tilt the ice to one end..

ps Doesn't take much icetime for a player to sink their +/-. Theres a few around here that are capable of that.

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02-01-2011, 11:19 PM
  #248
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haha, welldone, I see what you did there.

But this just makes the hit totals all the more impressive. A hitting buzzsaw out there. What else should JFJ do with his limited minutes?

Tilt the ice to one end..

ps Doesn't take much icetime for a player to sink their +/-. Theres a few around here that are capable of that.
True on the hit stats. But how many of them have been game or momentum changing this season? I can't think of any memorable Jacques moments this season.

Atleast for Stortini I can think of a few times where he was out there getting it done. Not enough, but a few. Like when he got the charge in the game against Nashville. That was a great play on his part.

I say that as a guy who LOVED it when JFJ dropped Regher like a sack of potatoes and got excited at the player he could become, but have been very underwhelmed with this recent incarnation. To me, he's shown me way less than Stortini, who was atleast trying.

I admit though, my argument is based on personal experience, not hard stats.

Except Stortini has engaged in 8 fights, where Jacques only 1 (Staubbitz jumped him, I think?).


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02-02-2011, 12:04 AM
  #249
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The Great Whiff of 2003 claims another fallen soldier. The deepest draft in a decade and the Oil came away with Pouliot; McDonald; JFJ; and Stortini. At least two teams in Philly and Anaheim came away with two franchise players.

EPIC FAIL which set this franchise's development back bigtime.

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02-02-2011, 12:13 AM
  #250
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Am I the only one who doesn't really like this?

Jacques can hit but he doesn't fight as often as Stortini
MacIntyre can fight but he can't really play a full shift.

Stortini gets in those middleweight fights that attempt to spark the team, and also provides energy for the 4th line. I would have wanted to see Jacques outplay Storts a little more before Stortini was waived.

He might get claimed too, if Calgary claims him I will be mad

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