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Old
02-01-2011, 03:09 PM
  #176
LoudmouthHemskyfan#1
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
No, he stated:
Which is hyperbole.

Plus a lot of that stat comes from 4 seasons ago and last season under Quinn when everybody not named Dustin was horrible.

Jacques is playing well this season as a vet that we've tried to patiently develop and NOW we should move him so he can be a developed player somewhere else?

Makes no sense. We've suffered the growing pains with this player and he seems to be coming along. Why punt him now?

Nobody seems to have an answer for that.
No, it isn't hyperbole. That's the shocking part. He took longer to get point #1 than all but one guy I was able to reference on NHL.com. He's still producing next to nothing. There was a nice little piece in the comments section of LT's blog detailing the only guys who've been worse in terms of production EVER; all were actual fighters.

Playing well? Is playing well running into your own teammates every night and not being able to take a pass? Playing well? That's nuts.

Punt him now because he never has been and never will be an NHL player. "We've hung onto him" isn't an argument for anything.

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02-01-2011, 03:09 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
A guy that hits at the same rate as NHL hit leaderCal Clutterbuck, is hard on the forecheck, is a solid NZ presence, is now rarely scored against, and that knocks home some goals in very limited action is "taking up space"? He's one of a few players on the team that hasn't been buried playing against his NHL peers.

The ceiling is this becomes one of those rare players we are actually looking for. Theres no reason not to wait and see for a few mths and see if the good play continues. Why walk the plank now?

This could easily be another Glencross mistake.
Are you talking about another JFJ because Jean Francois Jacques of the Edmonton Oilers has been given numerous opportunities to take that 4th line spot and run with it and instead has either been underwhelming to say the least or injured.

Also, JFJ and Glencross shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence for obvious reasons.
You must have low standards if you've been satisfied with JFJ's play as an Oiler.

I swear that every time JFJ-Fraser-Stortini are put on the ice, it ruins the flow of the game for the Oilers and usually halts any momentum that they might have otherwise had, i don't know what you see in these guys to be perfectly honest.

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02-01-2011, 03:10 PM
  #178
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One of my prayers have been answered, next in line -- JFJ.

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02-01-2011, 03:10 PM
  #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#1 View Post
No, it isn't hyperbole. That's the shocking part. He took longer to get point #1 than all but one guy I was able to reference on NHL.com. He's still producing next to nothing. There was a nice little piece in the comments section of LT's blog detailing the only guys who've been worse in terms of production EVER; all were actual fighters.

Playing well? Is playing well running into your own teammates every night and not being able to take a pass? Playing well? That's nuts.

Punt him now because he never has been and never will be an NHL player. "We've hung onto him" isn't an argument for anything.
So JFJ is here for production?

News to me.

As usual you only ever notice the production side of the game. Who's scoring GA when JFJ is on the ice? Nobody. right.

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Old
02-01-2011, 03:12 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
Are you talking about another JFJ because Jean Francois Jacques of the Edmonton Oilers has been given numerous opportunities to take that 4th line spot and run with it and instead has either been underwhelming to say the least or injured.

Also, JFJ and Glencross shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence for obvious reasons.
You must have low standards if you've been satisfied with JFJ's play as an Oiler.

I swear that every time JFJ-Fraser-Stortini are put on the ice, it ruins the flow of the game for the Oilers and usually halts any momentum that they might have otherwise had, i don't know what you see in these guys to be perfectly honest.
I've been more than satisfied with JFJ this season. I would have had concerns with the player before this season.

My opinion on the player has changed based on what he has brought this season. I do think people have made up their minds on the player already which might be unfortunate.

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02-01-2011, 03:14 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by lancer247 View Post
I don't know that the Flyers are looking to move him because he has played well when he is in the line up but he has been the 13th forward for most of season due mostly to depth then poor play. Its a nice problem to have but if they are looking to clear capspace for a goalie maybe they move him.

What type of draft pick would the Oilers give for Carcillo (rfa)?
I'd offer up a fourth or Cogliano for Carcillo, just to stir things up and take a suspension or two every year. The Oilers haven't had somebody people hate to play against in their lineup for years.

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02-01-2011, 03:14 PM
  #182
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i agree, that was embarrassing for him. stortini could be an effective fighter/agitator, but he's just not willing to actually fight. i've seen to many fights with him where he's just to worried about protecting his pretty face and not take a punch. it's sad but stortini doesn't scare anyone, and he's a joke throught out the leage.
He should have gave up fighting and just turned into a Kaleta-clone.

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02-01-2011, 03:14 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
So JFJ is here for production?

News to me.
Everyone is here for production.

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02-01-2011, 03:16 PM
  #184
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Finally!

Nice guy, but a horrible hockey player. I can't believe some people are upset by this.

Hopefully there are a few more guys waived or traded soon. JFJ, Fraser, Strudwick, etc.

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link?
lol

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02-01-2011, 03:17 PM
  #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
So JFJ is here for production?

News to me.

As usual you only ever notice the production side of the game. Who's scoring GA when JFJ is on the ice? Nobody. right.
And now you're claiming to me that guy wearing #22 is a sound positional and defensive hockey player? Replacement, you're losin it on this one. Watch him, very closely and for a few games.

Watch him go 50 feet out of position to make those hits. Watch his technically horrible skating. Watch what happens when a puck comes to him along the boards in the defensive zone and he needs to get it out. You're letting a few relative positives, that wouldn't even be noticed on a player that was actually NHL-calibre, outweigh a giant mound of negatives.

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Old
02-01-2011, 03:18 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#1 View Post
Everyone is here for production.
In your mind.


Again with that line of thinking you would be the first person to punt guys like Dave Hunter, Dave Lumley, Stan Weir, from a good hockey club.

Guys like this play a necessary role on good teams as well. Not everybody is here to light the lamp.

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02-01-2011, 03:19 PM
  #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
I've been more than satisfied with JFJ this season. I would have had concerns with the player before this season.

My opinion on the player has changed based on what he has brought this season. I do think people have made up their minds on the player already which might be unfortunate.
JFJ is a below average 4th liner even with his subtle improvement of late and that's a problem, don't you think? I would say that if any player on that 4th line has been merely ok, it's Fraser but then again, we will need an upgrade there at some point as well.
There are about 5-6 players that have no business being on this roster and JFJ is in that group.
Ideally, Reddox and Jones should be on our 4th line next year and thay are a whole lot better than JFJ and Stortini.

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Old
02-01-2011, 03:20 PM
  #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
In your mind.


Again with that line of thinking you would be the first person to punt guys like Dave Hunter, Dave Lumley, Stan Weir, from a good hockey club.

Guys like this play a necessary role on good teams as well. Not everybody is here to light the lamp.
None of those players you mention show any resemblance to #22.

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Old
02-01-2011, 03:21 PM
  #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#1 View Post
And now you're claiming to me that guy wearing #22 is a sound positional and defensive hockey player? Replacement, you're losin it on this one. Watch him, very closely and for a few games.

Watch him go 50 feet out of position to make those hits. Watch his technically horrible skating. Watch what happens when a puck comes to him along the boards in the defensive zone and he needs to get it out. You're letting a few relative positives, that wouldn't even be noticed on a player that was actually NHL-calibre, outweigh a giant mound of negatives.
When I see JFJ out there I'm seeing a player playing tough in all areas of the ice and that is currently being a handful to play against. That is actually being one of the few valid NZ obstacles out there.

The Goals against just aren't happening right now.

This is by and large the best I've ever seen JFJ play. Making smart sound decisions, getting the puck out, being hard on the blueline battling for pucks.

Everybody keeps telling me its an illusion. Lets see.

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02-01-2011, 03:21 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
I've been more than satisfied with JFJ this season. I would have had concerns with the player before this season.

My opinion on the player has changed based on what he has brought this season. I do think people have made up their minds on the player already which might be unfortunate.
Well, it's really a question of sample sizes. Last year, JFJ spent time on the top line and ended up middle of the pack in terms of QualComp. And he got lit the eff up. This year he's back with the dregs where he belongs, so it's no surprise he's going to come out looking better. But that should tell you something about his range.

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02-01-2011, 03:22 PM
  #191
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Yup, JFJ is either the next one or the one after that to get the axe. I'd be stunned if he got another contract from the Oilers.

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02-01-2011, 03:26 PM
  #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#1 View Post
None of those players you mention show any resemblance to #22.
Your offensive mindset would detest Dave Hunter and Stan Weir. Probably more than JFJ as they were not as physical either.

They were actually more like Fraser. Particularly Weir except he had more experience behind him.

The point though is obvious, that a young offensive side NEEDS to see some other contributions and players focusing in a different area of the ice. Which Fraser and JFJ have done for the club so faf this year.

Question: Did you like Dan Cleary here at all?

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02-01-2011, 03:28 PM
  #193
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Well, it's really a question of sample sizes. Last year, JFJ spent time on the top line and ended up middle of the pack in terms of QualComp. And he got lit the eff up. This year he's back with the dregs where he belongs, so it's no surprise he's going to come out looking better. But that should tell you something about his range.
That he's a 4th liner? Whats wrong with that?

He's a 25 yr old 4th liner that is now coming around after injury struggles. He's as close as we got to the exact player we need back there right now.

Again why suffer through a players youth only to give up on them at around age 25. Seems to me what often happens as a result is the player becomes useful somewhere else and that we developed yet another player for someone else.

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02-01-2011, 03:29 PM
  #194
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
In your mind.


Again with that line of thinking you would be the first person to punt guys like Dave Hunter, Dave Lumley, Stan Weir, from a good hockey club.

Guys like this play a necessary role on good teams as well. Not everybody is here to light the lamp.
OK, that is just crazy. Surely you aren't comparing JFJ to Lumley, Hunter and Weir. Lummer had a 74 point season with the Oil, Weir had 66 one year, and Hunter was a consistent 30-40 point player. Regardless of their points, they each brought something else to the team. Which JSJ has not shown that he can consistently do yet. JFJ isn't in the same stratosphere as any of those guys.


Last edited by bellagiobob: 02-01-2011 at 03:35 PM.
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Old
02-01-2011, 03:30 PM
  #195
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From: http://www.edmontonsun.com/sports/my.../17114781.html

“I know Zack pretty well and he’s everything that a coach wants in terms of character and coachability,” said Renney. “He’s a great teammate, he’s tough, he’s got terrific hockey sense."

<clip>

“Zack gives you whatever he has on any given night and works hard,” said Tambellini. “It’s just the fact that this team is evolving as we speak, into something where, short term and long term, we’re trying to accomplish a lot of things at one time here."

“Right now we just don’t have the roster spot.”

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02-01-2011, 03:30 PM
  #196
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
When I see JFJ out there I'm seeing a player playing tough in all areas of the ice and that is currently being a handful to play against. That is actually being one of the few valid NZ obstacles out there.

The Goals against just aren't happening right now.

This is by and large the best I've ever seen JFJ play. Making smart sound decisions, getting the puck out, being hard on the blueline battling for pucks.

Everybody keeps telling me its an illusion. Lets see.
How many GA has MacIntyre been on the ice for? I'd guess less than JFJ. JFJ plays mostly against other 4th liners, so his low GA is nothing to brag about. Him and Stortini are peas from the same pod. As COO said, Fraser is the only "ok" member of that 4th line and he is to vanilla for my liking.

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02-01-2011, 03:32 PM
  #197
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
In your mind.


Again with that line of thinking you would be the first person to punt guys like Dave Hunter, Dave Lumley, Stan Weir, from a good hockey club.

Guys like this play a necessary role on good teams as well. Not everybody is here to light the lamp.
Those type of players are invaluable. But JFJ is nothing like those types of players...

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02-01-2011, 03:39 PM
  #198
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Originally Posted by Steve Tambellini View Post
“Right now we just don’t have the roster spot.”
I guess Steve was genuine at the start of the year when he wanted competition for jobs from down below.

Studwick -> Petry
Stortini -> Reddox

So far so good.

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02-01-2011, 03:40 PM
  #199
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
That he's a 4th liner? Whats wrong with that?
Nothing much, I suppose. I just don't think he does much beyond giving everyone else seven extra minutes to catch their breath.

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He's a 25 yr old 4th liner that is now coming around after injury struggles. He's as close as we got to the exact player we need back there right now.
Yeah, for a team looking to grab a lottery pick, JFJ hits the spot. Looking ahead though, do you really see a future where he's among the 12 best forwards on the team? Sounds like a distopyian nightmare to me.

Quote:
Again why suffer through a players youth only to give up on them at around age 25. Seems to me what often happens as a result is the player becomes useful somewhere else and that we developed yet another player for someone else.
Yeah it happens a lot with this org, but that doesn't necessarily mean every player under 25 is a diamond in the rough.

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02-01-2011, 03:42 PM
  #200
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Those type of players are invaluable. But JFJ is nothing like those types of players...
Well I've seen all of them. A lot of players develop into those roles and get good at it over time. They were good players but also on good clubs. I dare say Dave Hunter or Stan Weir would look an awful lot like Fraser on this here club.

Theres a little bit of gloss due to the artiface of playing with a great championship club.

Everybody looks better.

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