Political Discussion - "on-topic & unmoderated"Rated PG13, unmoderated but threads must stay on topic - that means you can flame each other all you want as long as it's legal
US Health Care Reform Part V - SCOTUS Agrees to Hear Case
Any responsible citizen, no matter what your political leanings, should have been shocked and appalled at the legislative process behind this iteration of healthcare reform. This legislation is symptomatic of the lack of expertise and loss of perspective that hinders the US Congress from properly aiding the American people, by failing to put them above their own political, tyrannical, and financial desires. This legislation was never properly analyzed, never read or comprehended by those putting it to a vote. Many of those behind the Bill, including the President himself, have admitted to never reading the drafted legislation before actively pushing it.
No one here on these forums buys the fact that this legislation truly controls costs, nor does it adequately provide healthcare to those who were deficient. All it has done is taken a precarious situation, and made it far worse, and serves as evidence that the Federal Government of these United States has failed yet again in it's abilities to look out for the general welfare of the citizens of this great nation. Any additional intrusion into our healthcare system by this entity is not recommended, and it's responsibilities and funding should be diminished until it can justify it's existence as a legitimate government.
At this point: I'll trust the bloodsucking corporations over a bunch of inept bloodsucking politicians who don't know their ***** from their elbows.
The biggest problem for health care is it turned into a business. People's health should never ever be considered a business or part of the free market.
The biggest problem for health care is it turned into a business. People's health should never ever be considered a business or part of the free market.
The biggest problem for food is it turned into a business. People's sustenance should never ever be considered a business or part of the free market.
The biggest problem for entertainment is it turned into a business. People's happiness should never ever be considered a business or part of the free market.
The biggest problem for technology is it turned into a business. People's iPhones and laptops should never ever be considered a business or part of the free market.
The biggest problem for housing is it turned into a business. People's shelter should never ever be considered a business or part of the free market.
The biggest problem for transportation is it turned into a business. People's mobility should never ever be considered a business or part of the free market.
The biggest problem for food is it turned into a business. People's sustenance should never ever be considered a business or part of the free market.
But you have many, many more grocers than health care insurances. Plus, you know, you can grow your own damn food in the back yard.
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The biggest problem for entertainment is it turned into a business. People's happiness should never ever be considered a business or part of the free market.
Do you need this to live? I thought so.
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The biggest problem for technology is it turned into a business. People's iPhones and laptops should never ever be considered a business or part of the free market.
Do you need this to live? Nope.
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The biggest problem for housing is it turned into a business. People's shelter should never ever be considered a business or part of the free market.
Actually governments regulate the housing market pretty frequently. And there is a lot more factors in if you can live in a house or not. Plus you got apartments, you got a lot more things to factor into the standard of living.
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The biggest problem for transportation is it turned into a business. People's mobility should never ever be considered a business or part of the free market.
Uh, government regulates this as well. You don't need a car (well...actually, given our public transportation system)...but there are government alternatives.
Most of those things you don't a) need to survive or b) the government plays a very heavy hand in subsidizing it.
Furthermore, health care is almost a monopoly in the fact that if you have preexisting conditions, if you have this or that factor YOU CAN'T GET IT.
There are factors in health care that make it so you can't get it.
It's a big business with no government regulations whatsoever. People hate Medicare/Medicaide (and those are very tight restrictions) but government has actually zero to no control over the insurance companies. Unlike a house or a car, you can't simply go to the next place and buy the cheapest. Insurance companies also can and will deny claims, causing you to lose said house and said car because of some magical clause.
I don't think that your bank can go into your house and just boot you out because they don't like you or because of some birth defect you have. Nor can the banks just start piling up more and more taxes because they can.
There needs to be some regulatory control over heath care in this country.
Plus insurance companies are trying to make a profit over your health. If you cost too much, they can drop you and you can't do anything against it at all.
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Originally Posted by Masao
The problem is that people think you can protect people from being denied for pre-existing conditions and not have a mandate.
Gotta choose. It's both or zero. If you're against the mandate but you say denying coverage for pre-existing condition is bad then you're lying.
Insurance companies won't cover people with preexisting conditions because it is too much of a risk to lose profits at the end of each quarter. They can jack up the rates but then people can't buy into it, which causes more issues.
Furthermore this country is built on fixing the problem when it comes and not preemptive measures, which is the worse thing anyone can do. Because more problems come when you put them off.
That's not the point. If you can't deny coverage for pre-existing conditions then it's easy not to be insured and just buy insurance when you're sick to cheat the system. That's why you either have a mandate, or say good-bye to that protection.
This alone makes debating with you not worth the time.
Do do people win lawsuits when health care denies them coverage after years of paying into the system? There is absolutely no government regulation on how health care does business with a customer.
Correction: there is some government regulation but they let it run as a business, when it shouldn't be.
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Originally Posted by Masao
That's not the point. If you can't deny coverage for pre-existing conditions then it's easy not to be insured and just buy insurance when you're sick to cheat the system. That's why you either have a mandate, or say good-bye to that protection.
The problem with preexisting conditions is how to define them. There is some that aren't the patient's fault and some that are. Denying people insurance due to preexisting conditions all together is a major issue with the system that we have currently.
The biggest problem for food is it turned into a business. People's sustenance should never ever be considered a business or part of the free market.
The biggest problem for entertainment is it turned into a business. People's happiness should never ever be considered a business or part of the free market.
The biggest problem for technology is it turned into a business. People's iPhones and laptops should never ever be considered a business or part of the free market.
The biggest problem for housing is it turned into a business. People's shelter should never ever be considered a business or part of the free market.
The biggest problem for transportation is it turned into a business. People's mobility should never ever be considered a business or part of the free market.
I think people who don't understand the concept of a market failure are an even bigger problem...
I think people who don't understand the concept of a market failure are an even bigger problem...
Why don't you tell the class which lecture on market failure includes removing 'business' from said market.
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Originally Posted by JXC
I'm not sure what's so facepalm worthy about not wanting to debate someone who thinks health care is not regulated. That's just factually not accurate.
Do do people win lawsuits when health care denies them coverage after years of paying into the system? There is absolutely no government regulation on how health care does business with a customer.
Correction: there is some government regulation but they let it run as a business, when it shouldn't be.
Throw these into Google, and then try to tell us there isn't much government regulation of how health insurers deal with their customers: COBRA, WHCRA, USERRA, HIPAA, and oh so many more.
And those are just federal laws. They don't even touch the state level where the real regulation of insurance happens.
I'm not sure what's so facepalm worthy about not wanting to debate someone who thinks health care is not regulated. That's just factually not accurate.
Should have been universal Single Payer from the get-go, then we wouldn't be dealing with any of this.
We already know that government-funded Single Payer health care systems are certainly constitutional (cf. Medicare).
I'm sorry... and before I go on, this isn't solely directed at you, BUT SERIOUSLY??
Are we seriously going to trust these politicians to make any more decisions for us? Day in and day out all they do is mess things up and put a bureaucracy behind it.
It's time for a real change, and it's time you dumbasses of the HF political boards to realize that given the two-party system, and the abuses of the Federal Government can not, and should not be tolerated any longer.
The system isn't broken, the Federal Government is. They simply cannot be trusted with our tax dollars or to do the right thing.
Obama had his shot, and all he brought was more of the same BS we've been dealing with for the last 50 years. More lies, more "feel-good" legislation, more useless crap that ends up doing more harm to the American People than if they did nothing at all.
We're in this mess today because these morons in Washington can't take the time to sit down and think through a problem and work on something that is acceptable to all Americans. They're too self-serving (Democrats and Republicans alike) to put the needs of the nation, over their petty greed.
Are we seriously going to trust these politicians to make any more decisions for us?
Frankly? I'd trust them more than I trust insurance company executives.
Government bureaucrats can be incompetent and corrupt, true. But at least they are not driven by the profit motive to maximize the premiums you pay and fight tooth-and-nail to deny coverage in every instance they possibly can.
