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06-27-2004, 06:53 PM
  #1
Lowetide
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My Take on the Oiler draft

Well, it's all done and now it's time to ask "who are these guys?" I'm not going to address when these guys were taken, just the order I like them in.

C Robbie Schremp No tractor boy, no vowel-inator, an actual top drawer skill hockey player. ISS rates the kid #1 puck handler in the draft, #2 scorer (behind Ovechkin), #4 puck protection, #2 playmaker (behind Malkin). Schremp is exactly what this franchise needed.

G Devan Dubnyk Goalies have to be the hardest to project, not just because it takes them longer to arrive but also because many different styles can be effective. He looks like a Ken Dryden from the little highlight thingy I saw, and I've read he's a standup type. I think he's a higher risk pick than Schremp to be honest, but he addresses a huge need.

D Roman Tesliuk Not alot of love for him on HF boards, but I don't know why. "He has very good speed and makes good decisions with the puck. Battles hard and takes an intense approach to the game." Johan Fransson went early second, and Kyrill Lyamin is a different player type. I think this guy is a solid pick.

LW Liam Reddox Almost as important as the pick is the fact that they picked what appears to be a pure skill player where they did today. 30+ goals in the OHL and he didn't turn 18 until January, plus he performed well at the U18.

LW Geoff Paukovich I put him here because I don't know that much about him, Boondock is pretty impressed with him though and he knows what he's talking about. We'll know more a year from now.

D Brian Young How the heck many dmen do the Oil have in the system? It wasn't long ago when it was Chris Hajt, Alex Henry and ummm, well, you get the idea. ISS likes him, love his smarts and positional play. They project him as a 4-5 dman.

D Max Gordichuk His bio sounds alot like Young's, stay at home WHLer. Is Tesliuk's partner and would have to be considered a long shot to make the NHL.

The other three are a complete mystery, and I'll look foward to Guy's post draft article.

Finally, I don't think it would hurt to post where ISS ranked our guys among their top 200:

5. Robbie Schremp
24. Devan Dubnyk
74. Roman Tesliuk
99. Bryan Young
126. Geoff Paukovich
136. Max Gordichuk
162. Liam Reddox

Also, the following players played in the Orr/Cherry Prospects Game:

G Devan Dubnyk-2nd fastest goalie
C Robbie Schremp-15.211 for a full lap (Ladd was 14.957)
C Robbie Schremp-4th in puck control (Lammers won)
D Roman Tesliuk-90.8, 4th in hardest shot (Andy Rogers 96.8)

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06-27-2004, 09:09 PM
  #2
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grading the draft

I think this should be a thread where every one can post a grade/there comments about the draft. It will be five years before we can accuratley assess this thing, but knowing what you guys know now, what did you think? Here's my take. Overall, a solid draft, but as always with K.lowe, not without its fair share of drama. It was a more diversified draft group, with not so much an emphasis on big men as last year. Now on to specifics:

Robbie Schremp: Third best offensive player in the draft (maybe 4th- radulov). This time last year, was being discussed as a possible third overall. Getting him at 25 could be a huge steal. For a team that struggles to score goals, this is exactly the type of pick we needed. I like his cockiness, and I think he can use the fire in his belly to good use. Let's hope however any percieved attitude problems are just a sign of the confidence he'll need to reach the NHL. He'll have a shot in this organization, and if he busts, were deep enough to take the hit.

Devan Dubnyk: give credit to Kevin Lowe. He and his scouts thought dubnyk was the best goalie in the draft, and they went with that instinct. Nobody can say if he or Schawrz will be better, so I'll just have to trust K.lowe for now. As for when they took him (14), it was too soon. It's a textbook example of poor assett management. I wasn't on the draft floor, so I don't know if they tried to trade down or what, but I have to call K.lowe on that. It turned out all right in the end, but let's not forget an opportunity was missed. Still, if devan can develop, with Conk, Jussi, and Delauriers, our goaltending depth is solid, if unspectacular.

Roman Tesliuk: If you've read his interview, you'll know that he's gone through a lot to come over here and adapt to his new sorroundings. He's not exactly Shakespeare when he speaks, but I'll let his play do the talking. He's a hard worker, he's aggresive every shift, he can skate, make a solid first pass, and he loves to hit. In fact, comparisons have been made to darius kaspiritus. If he hits like him, I think we'll find a spot for a feisty player like that. A solid pick imo.

Liam Reddox: Size is an issue, but the skill is there. Could be a nice little steal for Lowe, a future comrie (high end) or more likely Selmo (small but hardworking and skilled). Having small skilled guys isn't bad, as long as you sorround them with bigger forwards to give them room. We have a good bunch of big forwards coming up, so I don't mind this pick.

Brian Young: Don't know a lot about him, but seems like a physical stay at home type. Adds depth, if nothing else, and you never know. He could develop into a dependable bottom 3 d-man.

Max Gordichuck: Ditto as Young. Adds depth, good size, hopefully he can learn to become dependable and solid. If both these guys have the career of Scott Ferguson, I'd be happy. A long, tough road ahead for both of them, no doubt, but our defensive depth in terms of prospects is second to none in this league.

Geoff Paukovich: The Stortini/Jacques of this draft. A big body who can bang, whose high end will probably be ethan moreau. He's going into a good college program and hopefully he'll develop. Seems like a sutter type player.

Stephane Goullet: I don't know much about him. A little help guys?

Tyler Spurgeon: Could be a brodziak: late pick up who develops into a nice depth/role player. Has good work ethic, which is essential to make it in the NHL with his (lack of) skills. I could see him being a very good AHL player who could resemble dominic pittis...small, but we'll do anything and everything he's asked and will always work hard. Nice pickup this late.

Bjorn Burling: I've read nothing but good things about him, could be an intriguing over ager who develops. Adds depth to our goaltending mix, if nothing else.

All in all, we got our "goaltender of the future", if you believe K. Lowe knows what he's doing, a highly skilled forward, another good defensive prospect, two depth defensemen, a hardworker in spurgeon, and another banger in Paukovich. All in all, a nice grab for an already excellent system. Out of ninimakki, pouliot, and shremp, you gotta think at least one of them will develop. Ditto for delauriers/dubnyk.

All in all, I give them a B. We'll see how it turns out though.

Also, I think this draft in particular showed just how little our (and all the draft publications) talking/analyzing/predicting really means at the end of the day. Who could have predicted wheeler at 5? Dubnyk at 14? Tukonen dropping out of the top ten? I think this draft reminded us of a crucial reality: At the end of the day, the oilers (and all teams) drafting is decided by only 5 or 6 men. That's 5 or 6 set of eyes, with 5 or 6 ways of seeing the (hockey) world. They have their own lists, their own favorites, and their own criteria. Whatever we as fans think (or the hype the media gives) about these players means little to them. They will follow there list, and will take the player they want. And their not going to risk missing that player to pick up another late rounder where they'll end up picking someone who is a long shot at best. Thus you see wheeler at 5, and dubnyk at 14. Ultimatley, we probably shouldn't spend so long worrying about the draft, because our ideas are just going to be sent flying into a million pieces. The real scouts all have ideas and tendencies of their own, and they stick to them.


Last edited by mamettt: 06-27-2004 at 09:19 PM.
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06-27-2004, 09:15 PM
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Devan Dubnyk

St. Louis wanted Dubnyk and tried trading up to get Dubnyk but Edmonton didn't bite. I've read somewhere that if Olesz wasn't available at #7, they Panthers would have traded down with Edmonton.

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06-27-2004, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky83
St. Louis wanted Dubnyk and tried trading up to get Dubnyk but Edmonton didn't bite.
Ive read this a couple times now on forums... but is this in newsprint or something? Ive yet to hear it from a REAL source.

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06-27-2004, 09:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dem
Ive read this a couple times now on forums... but is this in newsprint or something? Ive yet to hear it from a REAL source.
Here's an article about it.

http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/Edmont...27/516318.html

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06-27-2004, 09:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky83

I dont see anything about the Blues in there... am I blind??

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06-27-2004, 09:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mamettt
Robbie Schremp: This time last year, was being discussed as a possible third overall.
Not to nitpick, but this time last year Schremp was touted as a possible 2nd overall, and along with Olesz, the two who could possibly challenge Ovechkin for 1st overall. Malkin didn't emerge as the clear #2 until after the season had started.

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06-27-2004, 09:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dem

I dont see anything about the Blues in there... am I blind??
No you're not. It just mentions Florida and Buffalo. I'll see if I can find an article about the Blues wanting to move up.

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06-27-2004, 10:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dem
Ive read this a couple times now on forums... but is this in newsprint or something? Ive yet to hear it from a REAL source.
(Can't find anything about them trying to move up for Dubnyk, but this article mentions their "reported" fondness of him)
http://www.stlblues.com/columnists/lw_040625b.html

"Kekalainen said that you could characterize the strength of this year’s draft in goal, where as many as six goaltenders could go in the first round. Some pundits predict that the Blues are very high on Devan Dubnyk from Calgary of the Western Hockey League."

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06-27-2004, 10:50 PM
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I thought overall the draft went well if you're an Oilers fan, but I wasn't entirely sold on the later selections after the first round.

Devan Dubnyk
Now that the Oilers actually have some depth in goaltending I'm interested to see how JDD reacts... hopefully he'll continue to establish himself as a goaltender with Dubnyk not far behind. Overall I've always liked Dubnyk, just cos of his physcal abilities and his size. He played IMO very well in the prospect game, but didn't steal the show at the world under 18. Personally I would of had liked to have seen a goal scoring player like Schremp (had no idea he would end up falling to our 25th), Wolski, Radulov at 14th but never the less good pick. Towards the end of the season I had Shantz higher then Dubnyk with Schneider tied with Dubnyk.

Robbie Shcremp
I was pretty miffed when the Oilers passed up on a goalscorer (nameingly Schremp) at 14th but to have this guy at 25th... . I think the risk will be worth the reward,... he was already ranked high a season before he was even drafted. I also like his response after the draft :

``I'll come to training camp and they'll see. I don't see the negative part, but obviously some people do and I'll prove them wrong.''

... Sounds like he's got a goal already set for the upcoming season. Let's hope he proves other teams and doubters wrong.

Roman Tesliuk
Although I was luke warm about this pick because I felt Sindel or Lisin would of been better at the point, but from what I have seen and heard he's pretty solid.

Geoff Paukovich
Yikes yet another big body that may not make the NHL, he has a past that maybe has made him more mature or maybe its just the start (?) very questionable pick. I would have like Kacik or Lyamin but I guess that's why they pay KP the big bucks and not me I am optimistic after reading a couple of the posters post about his game but lets just say I'm not holding my breath... hope I'm wrong.

Liam Reddox
Good pick for what's avail. From what I know, he's a crafty LW who could suprise people next year. He also had a good World under 18.

GXL

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06-27-2004, 11:04 PM
  #11
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Boondock's Take on the Oiler's 2004 Draft

Well, I didn't get to watch the draft live, but I did listen to it on the TEAM 1040 (Vancouver). I also came home on my coffee break just in time to see the Oilers first pick...... and was a little shocked to hear "Dubnyk". However, back at work, I felt a lot better hearing "Schremp" at #25.

My biggest disappointment of the day came at #8. As soon as I heard "From the Lewiston MAINEiacs....." I knew we had missed out on the guy I wanted the most.

Draft Winners:

Oilers:

Hey, I'm a homer. Picking up Schremp at #25 could be one of the steals of the draft. Haven't seen this posted anywhere, but found it of interest.

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam040627/nhl_edm2-sun.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brownlee
The Oilers have some insight into Schremp - he takes power skating in the summer with Liane Davis, the sister of scout Brad Davis and daughter of senior scout Lorne Davis.

Schremp might be headstrong and cocky, but he's not a bad kid and he loves to play the game. The Oilers are betting he'll grow up once he's in the system.

"Lorne and Brad know the kid," chief scout Kevin Prendergast said. "They have him at the house an awful lot in the summer and they know him. He's not a bad kid at all."

While the Oilers were wary of taking Schremp 14th, there was no way they could pass him up when he was still there for their 25th pick. They came into the draft wanting to improve their skill level at forward. That much, they've accomplished.

"One of the things we think is going to push us over the top is that we've got to score goals," Prendergast said. "That's one thing the kid can do. He's creative. He's got good hockey sense. There's a long way for him to go to play in the NHL, but the the basic tools are there. We've got to direct him into the system we have ... this kid loves hockey."

What happens next is up to Schremp.

"Teammates, to me, are like my brothers," Schremp said. "I've never had a problem with my teammates. That's like your family, you know? That's obvious."
Washington - Excellent first round with Ovechkin, Schultz and Green. (However they flubbed #33 by picking Chris Bourque IMO) Also scooped up Lepisto and Hedman in the later rounds.

Columbus - Moved down to grab Picard and acquired Wharton in the process. Damn, I wanted Picard. I think that anytime a team moves down and grabs an extra pick and still gets their guy, it is an EXTREMELY smart move.

Draft Losers:

Dallas - Although they managed to grab another couple picks by moving down twice, Fistric????? :lol


Oilers Draft 2004


#14 - Devan Dubnyk

Have seen precious little of him, but it seems the Oil really did their homework with this kid. (obviously they watched more than a couple Blazer games this year) It took guts taking him even with the higher ranked Schwarz still on the board. One thing I noticed about him from McKeen's is that he is the most vocal goaltender on the ice most scouts have ever seen. Seems to have good leadership qualities from the backend. McKeen's also named him the best goaltender in the draft last October, before Montoya shone at the WJC's and Schwarz found a starting role in the Czech Extraleague.

#25 - Robbie Schremp

Don't really need to say much here. Everyone seems to have a different opinion on the guy. Hard to get a read on a guy like this without some first-hand knowledge, so I'll just quietly pass and wait for his arrival in Edmonton before I say anything about the kid. It'll be interesting to see what happens when the rubber hits the road and he has his first NHL camp.

http://tsn.ca/tools/print_story.asp?id=88723
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob McKenzie
What scouts are finding out now that they're talking directly to Schremp and his teammates is that he's full of personality with a real zest for life and hockey. His teammates have been given every opportunity to harpoon Schremp in interviews with NHL scouts but they haven't done that. They've made him out to be a good guy, a good teammate.
#44 - Roman Tesliuk

Ranked #34 at McKeen's. 6'1 195. Excellent skater. Plays PP and PK, solid defensively, likes to make big open ice hits. McKeen's also mentioned that they're puzzled at how low his point totals were, because he seemed to be much better offensively than his numbers showed. Solid two-way defenceman. Hopefully he can put up some bigger numbers this year and maintain his steady defensive play.

#57 - Geoff Paukovich

I'm not going to comment on his legal issues, because he has paid for his mistake. A big, strong-skating center who loves to throw his weight around, Paukovich is a project that will need some time to develop at Denver University, but if he keeps up his hard work and polishes his offensive game, I think we may have found a keeper in the second round. Ranked #57 at McKeen's.

#112 - Liam Reddox

Small playmaker who scored 30 goals in the OHL. Is a below average skater and gets pushed off the puck easily but has still had a knack for finding the back of the net at both the OHL and international level, where he scored 6 goals in 7 games at the U-18's. Although small, Liam will still go to the front of the net. A long-shot to ever play in Edmonton.

#146 - Bryan Young

One of the youngest players in the draft, Young has established himself as a solid, physical, defensive d-man in the OHL. If he starts putting up some bigger numbers, he could turn into a legitimate NHL prospect.

#177 - Max Gordichuk

Poor skater. Another defensive defenseman. Partnered with Tesliuk. Huge kid with potential to grow a little bit more. Makes good decisions with the puck.

# 208 - Stephane Goulet

Big winger from the Q who came on at the end of last year. Has the potential for a breakout season.

#242 - Tyler Spurgeon

Small, speedy center who is a faceoff and PK specialist. Hard worker and good character guy.

#274 - Bjorn Bjurling

Overage goalie who just finished his first season starting with Djurgardens in the SEL. Possible depth goalie to replace the recently departed Antilla.


I feel pretty good about the Oiler's first four picks from this year's draft. Has potential to be a very solid one, and could pay off soon if Schremp can make the jump. The kid is really growing on me with some of his comments regarding him falling to #25. Kind of reminds me of a JR, Brett Hull type attitude. Hopefully he can turn into a JR, Brett Hull type goalscorer.

Dubnyk is a risky pick, as is every goaltender taken in the first round, but a strong year and a potential showing at the WJC will make everyone in the hockey world take notice.

Tesliuk came out of nowhere this year and looks to be a solid two-way d-man with no real holes in his game. A complete player.

Paukovich is a long-term project, but love the size, skating and mean streak.

Reddox seems like this year's Corey Locke and will need to overcome a huge uphill battle to ever see the light of the NHL.

The rest are longshots.


Last edited by Boondock Saint: 06-28-2004 at 01:19 AM.
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06-27-2004, 11:27 PM
  #12
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Stephane Goulet -- Ive seen him a few times. Rough around the edges but has potential. Big kid, won a Midget scoring title at 16. Took some time to adjust to the Q. He should imrpov, and i expect him to have a break out year next year.

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06-28-2004, 12:03 AM
  #13
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Is it just me or did this draft sort of move away from what the Oilers were doing previously. A lot of the previous drafts, the Oilers managed to find captains or at least leaders in the draft. Many have been mentioned previously such as Pouliot, Brodziak, Stoll, etc.

Aside from Dubnyk, who is touted as having leadership behind the pipes akin to Conklin perhaps, who else in this draft is a leader?

Perhaps the last few drafts allowed the Oilers to make the selection of Schremp or even Paukovich when they otherwise wouldn't?

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06-28-2004, 12:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momentai
Is it just me or did this draft sort of move away from what the Oilers were doing previously. A lot of the previous drafts, the Oilers managed to find captains or at least leaders in the draft. Many have been mentioned previously such as Pouliot, Brodziak, Stoll, etc.

Aside from Dubnyk, who is touted as having leadership behind the pipes akin to Conklin perhaps, who else in this draft is a leader?

Perhaps the last few drafts allowed the Oilers to make the selection of Schremp or even Paukovich when they otherwise wouldn't?
I think you hit the nail on the head with your rhetorical question at the end. Furthermore, I think the Oilers in previous drafts chose alot of "safe" picks, guys likely to make it but with limited upside. That's resulted in a system that has incredible depth (perhaps the most in the NHL) but that is seriously lacking in upper echelon prospects. Kevin Lowe said we needed stars, and so he's gone after guys that are high risk/reward. Good strategy, imo.

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06-28-2004, 12:53 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momentai
Is it just me or did this draft sort of move away from what the Oilers were doing previously.
Not to mention 8 of the 10 picks were CHLers. A definite upswing from years past.

Like was mentioned before, perhaps management was a bit weary of trying to keep tabs on Euros to monitor their development, or lack thereof?

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06-28-2004, 01:07 AM
  #16
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I have to say that I hated this draft by the Oilers. Flame me if you will but here is why:

Reason #1: What could have been.

This was a draft where Wheeler goes at #5, Smid at #9, Valabik at #10, Nokelainen at #16, Chucko at #24, Shultz at 27, Fistric at #28 and Rogers at #30. This draft was wide, wide open and I am convinced that an active GM, at the top of his game, could have scooped some great prospects.

Meszaros at #23? That guy was the 3rd ranked d-man on almost every list with only Valabik being a wildcard YET Smid goes early AND Valabik goes early leaving Meszaros on the board with lots of time left. The same could be said of Zajac (at 20), Wolski (at 21) and Green (at 29).

Essentially what I am saying is that this draft was so wide open that Lowe should have been able to pick up one of those four players, Meszaros, Wolski, Zajac or Green (another first round pick basically) without paying too high of a price. And he didn't.

I am more than a little dissappointed.


Reason #2 - At 14 - Dubnyk - wth???

This guy was the consensus 3rd ranked goaltender. If reports are correct and St. Louis wanted to move down then the only question is whether or not they wanted Dubnyk instead of Schwarz - and the answer seems to be Schwarz.

Dubnyk was the classic trade down pick and Lowe didn't do it.


Reason #3 - At 25 - Schremp - wth???

Not because this was a bad pick but because Lowe had to get INCREDIBLY lucky to land this guy. Lowe didn't get Schremp because he is an astute GM - he got him because so any teams went far, far off the board and because every GM had a hard-on for size that Schremp in a free fall.

I am glad we got Schremp but I won't make teh mistake of thinking we got him because Lowe was just that much smarter than everyone else - we got lucky and that is all there is to it.


Reason #4 - We still have Isbister

Enough said.

***********************

I am not unhappy with our prospect list coming out of this draft - I am unhappy with how good this draft COULD have been. Lowe simply didn't impress me at all. This could have been a very special draft and it ended up being average, at best, as far as I am concerned.


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06-28-2004, 01:22 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YKOil
I have to say that I hated this draft by the Oilers. Flame me if you will but here is why:

Reason #1: What could have been.

This was a draft where Wheeler goes at #5, Smid at #9, Valabik at #10, Nokelainen at #16, Chucko at #24, Shultz at 27, Fistric at #28 and Rogers at #30. This draft was wide, wide open and I am convinced that an active GM, at the top of his game, could have scooped some great prospects.

Meszaros at #23? That guy was the 3rd ranked d-man on almost every list with only Valabik being a wildcard YET Smid goes early AND Valabik goes early leaving Meszaros on the board with lots of time left. The same could be said of Zajac (at 20), Wolski (at 21) and Green (at 29).

Essentially what I am saying is that this draft was so wide open that Lowe should have been able to pick up one of those four players, Meszaros, Wolski, Zajac or Green (another first round pick basically) without paying too high of a price. And he didn't.

I am more than a little dissappointed.


Reason #2 - At 14 - Dubnyk - wth???

This guy was the consensus 3rd ranked goaltender. If reports are correct and St. Louis wanted to move down then the only question is whether or not they wanted Dubnyk instead of Schwarz - and the answer seems to be Schwarz.

Dubnyk was the classic trade down pick and Lowe didn't do it.


Reason #3 - At 25 - Schremp - wth???

Not because this was a bad pick but because Lowe had to get INCREDIBLY lucky to land this guy. Lowe didn't get Schremp because he is an astute GM - he got him because so any teams went far, far off the board and because every GM had a hard-on for size that Schremp in a free fall.

I am glad we got Schremp but I won't make teh mistake of thinking we got him because Lowe was just that much smarter than everyone else - we got lucky and that is all there is to it.


Reason #4 - We still have Isbister

Enough said.

***********************

I am not unhappy with our prospect list coming out of this draft - I am unhappy with how good this draft COULD have been. Lowe simply didn't impress me at all. This could have been a very special draft and it ended up being average, at best, as far as I am concerned.


YKOil
Here we go again. Every year, fans will criticize Lowe no matter what he does. St. Louis was extremely high on Dubnyk and rumours have it that they wanted to trade up and Edmonton wouldn't do it. St. Louis wanted to trade up and not down. Every year it's the same crap of fans not being satisfied with what Lowe does.

Why do fans have to criticize every draft. Last yer it was Parise/Pouliot. This year it's Schwarz/Dubnyk. Can't fans ever be satisfied. I think we as fans act like we're scouts which we're not.

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06-28-2004, 01:39 AM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YKOil
I have to say that I hated this draft by the Oilers. Flame me if you will but here is why:

Reason #1: What could have been.

This was a draft where Wheeler goes at #5, Smid at #9, Valabik at #10, Nokelainen at #16, Chucko at #24, Shultz at 27, Fistric at #28 and Rogers at #30. This draft was wide, wide open and I am convinced that an active GM, at the top of his game, could have scooped some great prospects.

Meszaros at #23? That guy was the 3rd ranked d-man on almost every list with only Valabik being a wildcard YET Smid goes early AND Valabik goes early leaving Meszaros on the board with lots of time left. The same could be said of Zajac (at 20), Wolski (at 21) and Green (at 29).

Essentially what I am saying is that this draft was so wide open that Lowe should have been able to pick up one of those four players, Meszaros, Wolski, Zajac or Green (another first round pick basically) without paying too high of a price. And he didn't.

I am more than a little dissappointed.


Reason #2 - At 14 - Dubnyk - wth???

This guy was the consensus 3rd ranked goaltender. If reports are correct and St. Louis wanted to move down then the only question is whether or not they wanted Dubnyk instead of Schwarz - and the answer seems to be Schwarz.

Dubnyk was the classic trade down pick and Lowe didn't do it.


Reason #3 - At 25 - Schremp - wth???

Not because this was a bad pick but because Lowe had to get INCREDIBLY lucky to land this guy. Lowe didn't get Schremp because he is an astute GM - he got him because so any teams went far, far off the board and because every GM had a hard-on for size that Schremp in a free fall.

I am glad we got Schremp but I won't make teh mistake of thinking we got him because Lowe was just that much smarter than everyone else - we got lucky and that is all there is to it.


Reason #4 - We still have Isbister

Enough said.

***********************

I am not unhappy with our prospect list coming out of this draft - I am unhappy with how good this draft COULD have been. Lowe simply didn't impress me at all. This could have been a very special draft and it ended up being average, at best, as far as I am concerned.


YKOil
Reason #1. This is a very odd criticism. Are you saying Lowe should should have outright grabbed a first rounder (i.e. not just trade up one of our first rounders)? I don't recall any other GMs doing that, so I think that criticism is way off base.

#2: It's not like Lowe never trades down. I'm sure if he thought he could pull it off and actually gain something he would have done it. It's entirely possible another team was just as high on Dubnyk, or there were no teams interested in trading up. Only Lowe knows the answer to these questions and he made his moves accordingly.

#3. Is this even a criticism? You could say Lowe got lucky. However, many other GMs passed on Schremp as well. So even if him taking Schremp was an obvious move, Lowe gets good marks if you're grading on a curve.

#4. The fact that he didn't trade a fourth liner doesn't really bother me.

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06-28-2004, 01:41 AM
  #19
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My thoughts on the draft

Dubnyk - I predicted that this was the Oilers guy at 14. I'm not that upset about it because goaltending is where you need you best player and you should have good prospect redundancy in this position. I agree with a lot of posters that K-Lowe could've moved down a bit to get this guy, especially with Shwarz available.

Shremp- It wasn't luck that brought this guy at #25, nobody wanted this guy in the first round. The Oil staff could've been that enamoured with him to pass on 14. When the Devils, Sharks and Senators pass on a guy, I get worried. When he's floating around the mid 20's and no one trys to trade up it tells me that he was seriously overated by all of us fans in our mock drafts. I think his attitude is a part of the reason but I also think a lot of teams believe his skills don't translate to the NHL level very well. This is a risk pick.

Trading Chimera - stupidest move of the weekend, why trade a guy who has 1/4 the salary of Isbister and twice the heart. Sometimes being a good GM means swallowing your pride, admitting you made a mistake and cleaning out the trash. Isbister better shake his "what me worry" attitude and come to camp ready to be a NHLer. I doubt he will and his most likely role will be fan whipping boy. Not only do we move a local boy with demon-wind speed we use the pick on a real reach of a project. In a weak draft Chimera is more valuable than a 57 pick and our 3rd is better than their fourth, so what did we gain? Mark my words with a good coach Chimera could become a great thirdline/role player/penalty kill specialist.

Which leads to my last point that this 2004 had weak draft written all over it. Teams were all over the board throwing darts left and right. The scouts had it right after the top 3 you were just as likely to get a giant bust as you were a bonafide NHLer. We'll see top 10 guys never amount to anything while 4th rounders become decent players. Reminded me of Comrie's draft year (99 I think).

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06-28-2004, 01:54 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotToddy
Trading Chimera - stupidest move of the weekend, why trade a guy who has 1/4 the salary of Isbister and twice the heart. Sometimes being a good GM means swallowing your pride, admitting you made a mistake and cleaning out the trash. Isbister better shake his "what me worry" attitude and come to camp ready to be a NHLer. I doubt he will and his most likely role will be fan whipping boy. Not only do we move a local boy with demon-wind speed we use the pick on a real reach of a project. In a weak draft Chimera is more valuable than a 57 pick and our 3rd is better than their fourth, so what did we gain? Mark my words with a good coach Chimera could become a great thirdline/role player/penalty kill specialist.
If it's any consolation, I don't think Isbister's still an Oiler because they liked him more than Chimera...IMO it has more to do with nobody else wanting him at the moment. Pehaps Keenan will take a flyer, but we'll have to wait and see on that.

As for Chimera, no offense but you have more faith in his ability to learn the defensive aspects of the game than I do. I didn't want to see him gone, but it does open up some space for someone like Rita or perhaps even Salmelainen to get a chance.

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06-28-2004, 02:00 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky83
Why do fans have to criticize every draft. Last yer it was Parise/Pouliot. This year it's Schwarz/Dubnyk. Can't fans ever be satisfied. I think we as fans act like we're scouts which we're not.
Actually, I am on record as saying I liked the Pouliot deal and while some have legitimate misgivings with Parise/Pouliot I think Lowe made a fairly good move there. Pouliot is a player I have seen play and he is the real deal. Be no worse than Cassels imo and could be far, far better.


Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Rage
This is a very odd criticism. Are you saying Lowe should should have outright grabbed a first rounder (i.e. not just trade up one of our first rounders)? I don't recall any other GMs doing that, so I think that criticism is way off base.
Yes. I think Lowe should have, outright, grabbed a 1st rounder. Two 2nd's, Isbister and a 2nd, Chimera and a 2nd - etc. Some package that would have allowed the Oilers to get one of Meszaros, Wolski, Green or Zajac. I'm not asking for a miracle either here - just a pick in the 20-30 range would have done it.

I also don't get the impression that Lowe even let it be known he was willing to move down - only that St. Louis made it known they were wanting to move up.

And, like HotToddy, I think that trading Chimera before Isbister is just sad imo. While I appreciate the fact that the LW logjam opens up a little the Isbister problem remains.


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06-28-2004, 02:06 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YKOil
Actually, I am on record as saying I liked the Pouliot deal and while some have legitimate misgivings with Parise/Pouliot I think Lowe made a fairly good move there. Pouliot is a player I have seen play and he is the real deal. Be no worse than Cassels imo and could be far, far better.
That's good to hear.



Quote:
Originally Posted by YKOil
Yes. I think Lowe should have, outright, grabbed a 1st rounder. Two 2nd's, Isbister and a 2nd, Chimera and a 2nd - etc. Some package that would have allowed the Oilers to get one of Meszaros, Wolski, Green or Zajac.
I was actually thinking something similiar, but the fact that no other GMs did this means that you can't single out Lowe. It may have been a good idea, but blame the GMs in general.


Quote:
Originally Posted by YKOil
And, like HotToddy, I think that trading Chimera before Isbister is just sad imo. While I appreciate the fact that the LW logjam opens up a little the Isbister problem remains.


YKOil
I would have liked to see Isbister gone before Chimera, but sometimes you can't make the deals you want (i.e. no one bit on Isbister) and you have to do the best with the scenario you are dealt.

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06-28-2004, 02:47 AM
  #23
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Originally Posted by The Rage
I was actually thinking something similiar, but the fact that no other GMs did this means that you can't single out Lowe. It may have been a good idea, but blame the GMs in general.
Do I think Muckler did a great job unloading Lalime & Bonk for middling return?

Nope.

BUT, he did something Lowe rarely does - he took decisive action and he seized the day. He dumped the salary he needed to dump so that he could take a concerted run at Draper and Hasek.

The last time that I can think of Lowe seizing the day, as it were, was when he traded Hamrlik. That is why I see him as a completely average GM, it is why I am not a big fan of his and it is why I think this team will continue to slide sideways in its go-nowhereness.

So yeah, I will single out Lowe. As I watched this draft unfold I got the distinct feeling that someone could do something VERY special with this draft (unlike last year when it was obvious that most teams weren't interested in paying the price it would have taken to get the player they wanted - New Jersey, ironically, being the exception) and no one did. The closest was Calgary and Dallas but then they had to make the odd picks of Chucko and Fistric.

Until they picked Fistric I thought Armstrong (Dallas) was a genious - the guy had picked up Belle earlier in the day for a shaky Basischua (sp?) and then moved down TWICE and got good assets both times. If he had then picked Green I would have been left to shake my head in pure admiration... but Fistric?

Ah well. Lowe did do one of teh things I thought he needed to - trade Chimera. However if he keeps Isbister it downgrades the signifigance of that move. Here's hoping.


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06-28-2004, 02:48 AM
  #24
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Criticism of Lowe & the Oilers' '04 Draft

Wow do people ever get pumped up about the draft. Makes sense, I suppose, given that this is a prospects board, but I gotta shake my head hard at some of the comments I've read about these past days. I've read about so many "shoulda, woulda" comments, I'm not sure what to think at this point.

Sure, a lot of what has been put out here is somewhat valid and entirely conceivable. And yeah, maybe the proposed moves would've wound up with more of us being happy campers. But when it comes down to it, most (well, pretty much all) of us are out in the cold in terms of what options were available to the draft team this past weekend.

Maybe nobody wanted to trade up with us to get that 14th pick. Maybe the cost to trading a pick was more than the value of gaining another, in a draft field that was wide open. Maybe nobody even wanted to deal with Lowe. Maybe the scouting team really knows their hockey and are pretty good evaluators of talent. Maybe the scouting team has the inside scoop on players, that is never made public. Maybe some interviews put off management, leaving them with a bad taste of certain players. Maybe a tighter control of assets is more important to the Oilers right now, than having a hockey magician some thousands of miles away.

I dunno, just seems to me that these could be some key reasons that might go a long way to explaining why the draft unfolded as it did. It's easy to overlook them as fans.

I for one am pretty happy about three things that came out of this weekend.

1. We picked up some pretty good young talent - irregardless of where they were picked.

2. Lowe trusts his scouting team. That says a lot to me, and if I were a scout, I'd appreciate the fact that my boss didn't override me because of outside public opinion or what he thought should be done.

3. Lowe isn't afraid to get what he wants - even if it is outside the bounds of public norms and public opinion. It comforts me to know that he will make hockey moves based on what he thinks is best, and not necessarily worry about what a buncha news writers think or which name is on the back of most fans' jerseys.


well, just my 2 cents.

(anybody else find it odd there is no "cents" button on the keyboard? or am i blind?)


Last edited by xerburt: 06-28-2004 at 02:55 AM.
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06-28-2004, 05:14 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YKOil
I have to say that I hated this draft by the Oilers. Flame me if you will but here is why:

Reason #1: What could have been.

This was a draft where Wheeler goes at #5, Smid at #9, Valabik at #10, Nokelainen at #16, Chucko at #24, Shultz at 27, Fistric at #28 and Rogers at #30. This draft was wide, wide open and I am convinced that an active GM, at the top of his game, could have scooped some great prospects.

Meszaros at #23? That guy was the 3rd ranked d-man on almost every list with only Valabik being a wildcard YET Smid goes early AND Valabik goes early leaving Meszaros on the board with lots of time left. The same could be said of Zajac (at 20), Wolski (at 21) and Green (at 29).

Essentially what I am saying is that this draft was so wide open that Lowe should have been able to pick up one of those four players, Meszaros, Wolski, Zajac or Green (another first round pick basically) without paying too high of a price. And he didn't.

I am more than a little dissappointed.
There wasn't a heck of a lot of movement on draft day... certainly not anyone who traded out of the first round. Judging by your comments no GM was on the top of their game (no one added an extra first in this draft, not even the Rags who had a trunk full of 2nd rounders).

The problem is, each team has a different list, as was evident by Wheeler going #5, and Wes O'Neil going somewhere way farther down (anyone know where he was actually picked?).

If the Oilers had Meszaros and Green way off their chart in the back, why trade for them? Zajac went earlier than expected too... as of right now, we don't have a clue what the Oilers scouts think of these players, so maybe they got 3 of their top 8 or 9 guys with their first 3 picks... who knows?


Quote:
Reason #2 - At 14 - Dubnyk - wth???

This guy was the consensus 3rd ranked goaltender. If reports are correct and St. Louis wanted to move down then the only question is whether or not they wanted Dubnyk instead of Schwarz - and the answer seems to be Schwarz.

Dubnyk was the classic trade down pick and Lowe didn't do it.
I knew St. Louis wanted a goaltender... but the question is what did their rankings look like? I don't know how you deem the answer to be Schwarz when they didn't have a choice when they picked.

Actually, Phoenix was the classic trade down pick, but no one bit. They could have had Wheeler at any point in the top 15, but they couldn't trade down, at least not the 3 or 4 spots they felt comfortable with.

I'd rather them pick the player they evidently considered the top goaltender in the draft at 14, then trade down and lose him. You trade down when there are several guys you have similarly ranked (i.e. Pouliot), not when it's time to pick and you are picking a guy you really liked, and was ranked and CSS or other publications lower. When it comes to draft day, you really do have to throw those things out the window and go with your list. You make a list that has the guys you really want, and if one falls to you, you pick the guy.


Quote:
Reason #3 - At 25 - Schremp - wth???

Not because this was a bad pick but because Lowe had to get INCREDIBLY lucky to land this guy. Lowe didn't get Schremp because he is an astute GM - he got him because so any teams went far, far off the board and because every GM had a hard-on for size that Schremp in a free fall.

I am glad we got Schremp but I won't make teh mistake of thinking we got him because Lowe was just that much smarter than everyone else - we got lucky and that is all there is to it.
Maybe Lowe was on "his game". Lucky or not, it doesn't really matter, does it? Schremp was one of the top rated North American skaters, but like you said earlier, guys like Smid, Wheeler, Valabik were all picked off the board, leaving other players to fall. Lowe may have also had several guys on par with Schremp and knew one would have been available, whether it was a Wolski, a Zajac, or whatever.

Extremely lucky, or playing odds that are in his favour?


Quote:
Reason #4 - We still have Isbister

Enough said.

***********************
At least Rita gets his shot now...

Quote:
I am not unhappy with our prospect list coming out of this draft - I am unhappy with how good this draft COULD have been. Lowe simply didn't impress me at all. This could have been a very special draft and it ended up being average, at best, as far as I am concerned.


YKOil
Well I guess we will see. The Oilers got the guy who they thought was the best player in his position, and they got a guy everyone here was clamouring for.

I understand #2 and #3, but we don't know what the Oilers list looked like. They may very well have gotten the guys they had pegged right near the top... if they did I certainly can't argue with their performance.

Point #1 I certainly don't agree with at all, because according to your definition, no GM was at the top of his game on draft day, so singling Lowe out seems a little strange.

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