Well, I think it is obvious that there are definately some politics involved in who makes an NHL hockey team.
Take the 06-07 Oilers for instance: Gilbert obviously outplayed Smid in training camp, but Smid played 77 NHL games that season and Gilbert played 12.
Gilbert played at a level in those 12 games that Smid has yet to reach, but Smid was the guy who got paid the big money that year likely almost entirely due to the fact that he was part of the Pronger return.
I think head amateur scots like Prendergast definitely have some input on who makes it into the lineup. For every border line NHLer there are probably 10+ AHLers and guys in Europe that could fill his role equally well. Which players end up with those fringe roles seems really dependent on how many backers they have in the organization.
This is probably more likely due to age and perceived potential rather than "politics".
Smid was a 20-year old recent early first rounder with a full AHL season under his belt. Gilbert was a 23 year old fourth rounder fresh out of college without any pro games played. Gilbert passed Smid on the depth chart early in the following season because he ultimately outplayed Smid. Overall, it's a bad example because the team realized in less than 100 games that Gilbert was the better player and moved him up the depth chart accordingly. Remember, Gilbert never has been sent down since his first callup. So this is a really bad example of "politics" because the organisation made the right correction quite quickly in the grand scheme of things.
Frankly, it's not disimilar to the Omark demotion. They looked at a 19-year old early first rounder Paajarvi vs. a 23 year old 4th rounder Omark. The perceived potential of Paajarvi appeared to be the safer gamble for the long term development, but as the year is progressing Omark is stepping into a role that he may not reliquish. It remains to be seen whether he'll move past Paajarvi on the organisational depth chart, but perhaps like Gilbert it could happen. Probably the only difference between the two examples is that Omark in this situation actually had played professional hockey, whereas Gilbert hadn't.
Voted no. Jacques can atleast get around the ice at an NHL pace. Zac has always had issues with his footspeed, if you can't keep up in todays game you're done. No surprises they let cut him loose.
I learned quite a bit over the course of the past few weeks in regards to player retention.
My friends brother was drafted by the Montreal Canadians a while ago (Duncan Milroy). He was drafted 2nd overall, and proceeded to lead his junior team in scoring (Swift Current Broncos), lead the AHL team in scoring (Hamilton Bulldogs), and then proceed to play in 5 games at the tail end of the Habs season.
Things were looking up for him and his career. Having prooved all he could in the AHL, he was pencilled in to make the team during training camp, and go on to continue developing his skills in the NHL.
This is where things get a little complicated.
Over the course of that summer, the scout that drafted him was fired.
It's important to note that scouts are given monetary bonuses for how well their draftees perform (If they make the NHL, how many games they play in etc).
So without a scout pushing to have him in the lineup, things start to diminish in terms of his training and compensation. With no scout to back up his performance to management or coaching staff, he is left to fend for himself in regards to training, or career direction.
He is left to find his own way in a lineup, with no report whether he should be a 2nd line winger, or a plugger, and he ends up being pushed out of the top 6 as some kind of 'tweener' during his training camp scrimmages.
He is given scrubs for linemates, and is not really given any time to gel or create chemistry with anyone, and he is quickly scuttled back to the AHL team he dominated.
Unfortunately it didn't just stop at the NHL training camp. He had no scout to vouch or push for him in the AHL either, so he drops from the top line, with top line minutes, to 2/3rd tweener line, with no consideration given to his development, or production, and not much time on special teams.
The politics within an organization really hampered his development, and hampered his playing style, and quite likely derailed any chance he had at an NHL career.
I'm not sure what you can read into this, but if Jacques is still with the team, it really makes me wonder if it has something to do with the politics, of a scout painting a picture to management, that they should maintain clinging to the pipedream that he might one day be that power forward he was touted to be.
Since when does a scout have some kind of authority to get a guy into a teams lineup? When they fired the scout, did they shred his report? And the said report was while he was in junior. I think after a few years within the organization, they don't need a scout to tell them what they have anymore.
JFJ shouldn't even be on the team in the first place. He's a decent AHL level player and that's the extent of his skills. I'd much rather see another young prospect in the lineup than JFJ.
He's very limited in offensive and defensive abilities and plays ~7 minutes per game (when he's not nursing injuries and sitting in the press box). He's certainly not a longer term key to this teams success so waiving him on as well wouldn't be an issue at all.
I think the Oilers need to realize that waiving players isn't the end of the world and that the waiver wire can be a 2 way street. Look at the situation with Ryan Jones. He was a great pickup and the Oilers should always be willing to jettison marginal players like Storts and JFJ and be on the lookout for additions like Jones who may improve the overall roster. By being too protective of the teams marginal players the Oilers are unnecessarily limiting their opportunities to try other players in the lineup... both from their own organization and from pickups from other clubs.
I would have liked them to pick up Grabner when he was being given away on the waiver wire as well but again the Oilers "didn't have room" on their roster. I think that type of thinking is limiting and a team should always be looking at upgrading and willing to turnover the roster.
I think they knew what Stortini brought and decided to move on. I am fine with that. For some reason Jacques is on his seventh or eighth life in this organization and hope it doesn't last into next season.
I hope the fourth line is totally revamped next year, it has been putrid this year.
As for the Milroy sidebar, I can attest to the politics at play. Just because I am small, slow and lack talent, it must be because a scout got fired that I am not in the NHL.
Shouldn't the amateur scouts be focusing on who they want to draft, etc. and leave the development and tracking to people like Mike Sillinger?
My friends brother was drafted by the Montreal Canadians a while ago (Duncan Milroy). He was drafted 2nd overall, and proceeded to lead his junior team in scoring (Swift Current Broncos), lead the AHL team in scoring (Hamilton Bulldogs), and then proceed to play in 5 games at the tail end of the Habs season.
Things were looking up for him and his career. Having prooved all he could in the AHL, he was pencilled in to make the team during training camp, and go on to continue developing his skills in the NHL.
This is where things get a little complicated.
Over the course of that summer, the scout that drafted him was fired.
It's important to note that scouts are given monetary bonuses for how well their draftees perform (If they make the NHL, how many games they play in etc).
So without a scout pushing to have him in the lineup, things start to diminish in terms of his training and compensation. With no scout to back up his performance to management or coaching staff, he is left to fend for himself in regards to training, or career direction.
He is left to find his own way in a lineup, with no report whether he should be a 2nd line winger, or a plugger, and he ends up being pushed out of the top 6 as some kind of 'tweener' during his training camp scrimmages.
He is given scrubs for linemates, and is not really given any time to gel or create chemistry with anyone, and he is quickly scuttled back to the AHL team he dominated.
Unfortunately it didn't just stop at the NHL training camp. He had no scout to vouch or push for him in the AHL either, so he drops from the top line, with top line minutes, to 2/3rd tweener line, with no consideration given to his development, or production, and not much time on special teams.
The politics within an organization really hampered his development, and hampered his playing style, and quite likely derailed any chance he had at an NHL career.
I'm not sure what you can read into this, but if Jacques is still with the team, it really makes me wonder if it has something to do with the politics, of a scout painting a picture to management, that they should maintain clinging to the pipedream that he might one day be that power forward he was touted to be.
Duncan Milroy never dominated the AHL (far from it). This scout story of yours is just an excuse, given by Milroy, for not making it to the NHL.
I learned quite a bit over the course of the past few weeks in regards to player retention.
My friends brother was drafted by the Montreal Canadians a while ago (Duncan Milroy). He was drafted 2nd overall, and proceeded to lead his junior team in scoring (Swift Current Broncos), lead the AHL team in scoring (Hamilton Bulldogs), and then proceed to play in 5 games at the tail end of the Habs season.
Things were looking up for him and his career. Having prooved all he could in the AHL, he was pencilled in to make the team during training camp, and go on to continue developing his skills in the NHL.
This is where things get a little complicated.
Over the course of that summer, the scout that drafted him was fired.
It's important to note that scouts are given monetary bonuses for how well their draftees perform (If they make the NHL, how many games they play in etc).
So without a scout pushing to have him in the lineup, things start to diminish in terms of his training and compensation. With no scout to back up his performance to management or coaching staff, he is left to fend for himself in regards to training, or career direction.
He is left to find his own way in a lineup, with no report whether he should be a 2nd line winger, or a plugger, and he ends up being pushed out of the top 6 as some kind of 'tweener' during his training camp scrimmages.
He is given scrubs for linemates, and is not really given any time to gel or create chemistry with anyone, and he is quickly scuttled back to the AHL team he dominated.
Unfortunately it didn't just stop at the NHL training camp. He had no scout to vouch or push for him in the AHL either, so he drops from the top line, with top line minutes, to 2/3rd tweener line, with no consideration given to his development, or production, and not much time on special teams.
The politics within an organization really hampered his development, and hampered his playing style, and quite likely derailed any chance he had at an NHL career.
I'm not sure what you can read into this, but if Jacques is still with the team, it really makes me wonder if it has something to do with the politics, of a scout painting a picture to management, that they should maintain clinging to the pipedream that he might one day be that power forward he was touted to be.
I used play against Milroy, he had all the skill, just didn't have the wheels. That being said, he never led the Broncos in scoring, and ended up playing out his 4 years(never getting as many points as in his draft year when he was playing with Ulmer - who got almost a goal a game that year)in the CHL before gradding to the AHL, it then took him 4 seasons to lead his team in scoring at the AHL level. He wasn't screwed over, he just never really had the wheels. And after 5 seasons in the AHL other prospects start to pass you by.
I voted NO, but were splitting hairs here. Both are minor leaguers as far as many are concerned. So if all here bide their time I'm sure they'll end up rommies in OKC soon enough.
So you're confused then. Stortini is a bad fighter, no question, but he understood his role on the team, to play a gritty, tough game and fight when required. You can complain about him being a bad fighter, but he knew when to pick his spots.
Jacques doesn't fight, and has ZERO feel for when it's appropriate to fight. Stortini, for his many faults, was a "pesty" player, he annoyed the opposition, Jacques doesn't do this, because I don't think he knows he needs to, he's just oblivious to the game happening around him.
No he didnt, that is my biggest problem with him.
-Why fight Barch and lose any momentum when Vandermeer had already kicked his but, and Barch had already taken a penalty on the play.
-Why fight a legit tough guy like Orr, and almost get killed when MAc is on the ice at the same time.
The guy would fight anyone anytime not caring how the outcome might effect his team. I never saw him go out after the opposition scored an early goal and beat someone up to change the momentum. Or deliver a crushing hit then beat up the guy who challenges him like JFJ did to Regehr last year.
JFJ knows that his primary role on the team is not to fight everyone, Stortini will never grasp that, good agitator stir **** up, draw penalties and dont get beat up.
When they fired the scout, did they shred his report? And the said report was while he was in junior. I think after a few years within the organization, they don't need a scout to tell them what they have anymore.
So you're confused then. Stortini is a bad fighter, no question, but he understood his role on the team, to play a gritty, tough game and fight when required. You can complain about him being a bad fighter, but he knew when to pick his spots.
