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Andrei Scapegoat Kostitsyn

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Old
02-02-2011, 01:22 PM
  #51
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Scapegoat?! This guy deserves 95% of the critics he gets...the other 5% is because he has a casehead of a brother in Nashville that is actually playing better than him.

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02-02-2011, 01:36 PM
  #52
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If you take the whole year Ak is our second best forward in overall play after Plek. His all around play is way better this year and he scored alot of goals and made passes that result to goals at crutial time this year. I think the Habs never lost in regulation this year when Kostitsyn score.

Alot of you are mad because he fan on a shot yesterday but things like that happen to every players in the Nhl, no one here talk about the shot he took a couple of shift later that almost result in a goal with Eller in front of the net.

Kostitsyn help the team alot this year , to bad some peoples dont see it

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02-02-2011, 01:36 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
The media did a great job of painting a nasty picture of the Kost bros in the press. That Darkest Day in Habs History was an embarrassment and not surprisingly, not one single journalist/analyst got fired for bringing such crap out.
Personally, I would have sued. In any event, nobody ever talked about Hammer that was implied just as much. If I remember correctly, I believe Hammer is even the one that introduce them to one another.
I truly believe that a lot of fans turned on those players after that day and hence it's been hard for them to regain support from some fans - not all but I feel definitely some.

Hamrlik claims he was introduced to Mangiola by another hockey player whom Hammer would not name for obvious reasons. It's in a transcript from his presser to the Czech press which can still be found somewhere on the internet. I'll find it if need be.

I like Andrei Kostitsyn and frankly feel sorry for the guy. I've never been challenged to pick up my life, leave my home country, move to another country barely knowing the language and attempt to make a go of it. Sure he has money and I'm sure it makes it easier but I have to wonder if at practice he truly understands what coaches are trying to relay to him. Does the language barrier and the sideshow that Montreal can be slow down the progress of European players?

I don't think there is much of an upgrade out there. I really don't want to see him displaced for something comparable. I'd like him to be successful in Montreal. He's got some real talent. Cammalleri is just as streaky and almost worthless when not sniping but yet gets more of a free pass. Perceptions just seem to be very different for certain players.

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02-02-2011, 01:39 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
I mean in terms of how he's been playing. The entire team isn't putting up points. See Ottawa as an example, doesn't mean certain players on their team despite not having career numbers aren't playing the best they've played. Andrei is one of those players.
Hard to say since there's still a lot of hockey left, but to me he's paid to be a goal scorer and at his current pace it would be his 3rd highest out of 4 years. You would think that someone playing the best they have played would be on pace for more then 21 goals. I'm not sure why anyone would be happy with the way he's played this year, gratned our offense has struggled a great deal and losing your best PMD in Markov hurts for sure.

Is Kostitsyn playing his best hockey? Frankly I'd rather have the 2007-08 Kostitsyn, 78 26 27 53 +15.

Last season in 59 games, 15 18 33 +1 32
This season in 50 games, 13 16 29 +12 20

My problem is that he's still way too inconsistent (as many goal scorers are) He recently broke 8 game pointless streak, and now has 4 pts in the last 4 games. In 50 games he's gone pointless in 29 (or 60%)

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02-02-2011, 01:47 PM
  #55
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Andrei is what he is. Talented stickhandler, mean wrist shot, heavy frame & good speed. Good production at 50 or so points for 3.25 million.

But he has downsides, the guy is a total space cadet which makes him very frustrating to watch. He plays like he is stoned!! He has the puck constantly rolls off his stick and is slow to make plays resulting in turnovers.

I can see how he has become a scapegoat in the super emo Montreal market. His flaws are very noticable (when he whiffs on shots haha) so any boob fan (lots in montreal!!) can harp on them, and there are such high expectations on him from the 2003 Draft when he was picked ahead of about 10 all-stars.

Personally I have made peace with his flaws and can live with them because overall you aren't gonna 4 high calibre wingers in your top 6, and he is a decent deal as a top 6 filler.

He has recovered from his brutal 2nd half last season, and is more implicated in the play this year.

Andrei is what he is, people need to learn to accept this, he is just not sharp enough or high enough hockey IQ to become the 40 goal star some people expect. If he can produce 20-30 goals/40-50 pts and his salary doesn't go above 3.5 to 3.75 it is OK.

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02-02-2011, 01:49 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Rated R Superstar View Post
Scapegoat?! This guy deserves 95% of the critics he gets...the other 5% is because he has a casehead of a brother in Nashville that is actually playing better than him.
Yeah, I'm sure you tune in to watch the Preds every time they play.


Last edited by montreal: 02-02-2011 at 01:53 PM. Reason: No need for name calling
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02-02-2011, 01:50 PM
  #57
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Little brother Sergei has 25 points in his last 28 games.... how can you not when Scott Gomez has 26 points ALL YEAR
And 4 points in his first 20 games.

28 games don't make a career. Good spin though.

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02-02-2011, 01:51 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Turboflex View Post
Andrei is what he is. Talented stickhandler, mean wrist shot, heavy frame & good speed. Good production at 50 or so points for 3.25 million.

But he has downsides, the guy is a total space cadet which makes him very frustrating to watch. He plays like he is stoned!! He has the puck constantly rolls off his stick and is slow to make plays resulting in turnovers.

I can see how he has become a scapegoat in the super emo Montreal market. His flaws are very noticable (when he whiffs on shots haha) so any boob fan (lots in montreal!!) can harp on them, and there are such high expectations on him from the 2003 Draft when he was picked ahead of about 10 all-stars.

Personally I have made peace with his flaws and can live with them because overall you aren't gonna 4 high calibre wingers in your top 6, and he is a decent deal as a top 6 filler.

He has recovered from his brutal 2nd half last season, and is more implicated in the play this year.

Andrei is what he is, people need to learn to accept this, he is just not sharp enough or high enough hockey IQ to become the 40 goal star some people expect. If he can produce 20-30 goals/40-50 pts and his salary doesn't go above 3.5 to 3.75 it is OK.
nice post, that's actually a really good way to sum to Kostitsyn!

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02-02-2011, 02:01 PM
  #59
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Cammalleri is just as streaky and almost worthless when not sniping but yet gets more of a free pass. Perceptions just seem to be very different for certain players.
I can't name one but Plekanec of our forwards that are not streaky.

Most people on this board are so busy finding errors that he makes, that you pretty much ignore all the good things he does. You guys didn't notice who made the all-mighty Gionta's first goal possible? Kosty passed the puck to Gionta while winning the battle with the Washington d, thus creating the 2 on 1.

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02-02-2011, 02:07 PM
  #60
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I just don't think he does anything better or worse than certain players who are criticized far less.

How many times has Subban made mistakes and we all praise him. I'll be first to admit the comparison isn't fair because Subban is a rookie, but remember when Andrei first came up he was considered to be our next chance at a superstar also.

I'll also be first to admit he's terrible with one timers and he does mishandle the puck a lot but he's under such a scrutinizing microscope it isn't even funny.

From the people who hate Euros to the people who believe any media hogwash they're force fed by their TV, to the people who just bandwagon hate because they know nothing about hockey and just believe what they are told, all there is really is hate.

The guys a good player, he performs well enough to justify not being ragged on 24/7 and maybe like Price if he wasn't ragged on 24/7 and people actually supported him he'd be playing well like Price started to.

Price fought through the tough time and got praised for doing it.

Andrei has stints where he plays very well though and all the haters still hate for various reasons. When a guy like Price or another Canadian player seems to go through the same thing, his stint seems to gain confidence of the fans a lot more. The haters don't hate. When Andrei has like a 10 game streak of playing well though he only gets credit from the Andrei lovers.

I can at least say the Halak fans and Price haters for the most part started showing the guy respect and supported him because he's our goalie, I don't doubt it had at least a small affect.

But since Andrei isn't a goalie we can afford to be much crueler? He tries out there and he doesn't seem like a bad kid I don't care what the stupid controversy says. According to many people Price was an alcoholic too or is one. Bottom line is I don't think Andrei is a bad human being, I think he cares about the team and his own stats not just one or the other. He's a normal young hockey player having trouble adjusting to North America and North American hockey. You just simply don't give up on guys like this early, in my eyes he's a late bloomer and will be a 25-25-50 guy some day. The fact that he's a plus player with some size in my eyes is simply a bonus.

The hate is just unwarranted. Sure he makes obvious mistakes not everyone can be Tomas Plekanec and make mistakes and make up for them. AK is who he is. It's unfair that he's criticized as heavily as he is here, in the media etc.

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02-02-2011, 02:09 PM
  #61
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I think the only problem with Andrei is that he was drafted 10th in a year that saw Carter, Getzlaf, Perry, Richards and i forget who else picked up after him and there are some here on this board and in the media who will never forgive Andrei for that. As if it was his fault.

But if you look at Andrei's stats he has been one of the top point getters on this team for the past few years. I think we need to judge Andrei against the other players on the Habs and not the rest of the league. Right now he is third in points, 2nd in +/-, 2nd in hits. I wonder what those other players drafted after him would be doing on this team with this coaching staff. I'm sure their point totals would take a big tumble. Look at Cammy for example. He's being paid almost twice as much as Andrei. Is he twice the goal scorer that Andrei is. I don't think so.

And despite the exaggeration from many posters, his defence has improved immensely. Andrei will never be the fantasy player we all dreamed of when he was drafted in 2003. Let's leave those daydreams where they belong and let's look at the player we got: one of the top players when it comes to points, +/-, and hits ON THIS TEAM.

Getting rid of him will be a big mistake but it will not be the first by this present management.

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02-02-2011, 02:09 PM
  #62
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My problem is that he's still way too inconsistent (as many goal scorers are) He recently broke 8 game pointless streak, and now has 4 pts in the last 4 games. In 50 games he's gone pointless in 29 (or 60%)

We can all agree that this is the main problem with him but like you also mentionned, many goal scorers are like that. When I see people asking for Penner (who has half the hits that AK does btw) to replace Kostitsyn, it would be the same thing as far as production goes. I just don't get it...

I wanna see more names of players that could do a better job than AK with a similar salary. How can you expect so much out of your 5th highest paid forward?

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02-02-2011, 02:10 PM
  #63
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I can't name one but Plekanec of our forwards that are not streaky.

Most people on this board are so busy finding errors that he makes, that you pretty much ignore all the good things he does. You guys didn't notice who made the all-mighty Gionta's first goal possible? Kosty passed the puck to Gionta while winning the battle with the Washington d, thus creating the 2 on 1.
Ummm, I don't think there was any "battle" between AK and a Wash D.

http://video.canadiens.nhl.com/video...WSH235&fr=true

If there was any battle in that sequence, it would be Gomez's.

Just saying.

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02-02-2011, 02:11 PM
  #64
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I think the only problem with Andrei is that he was drafted 10th in a year that saw Carter, Getzlaf, Perry, Richards and i forget who else picked up after him and there are some here on this board and in the media who will never forgive Andrei for that. As if it was his fault.

But if you look at Andrei's stats he has been one of the top point getters on this team for the past few years. I think we need to judge Andrei against the other players on the Habs and not the rest of the league. Right now he is third in points, 2nd in +/-, 2nd in hits. I wonder what those other players drafted after him would be doing on this team with this coaching staff. I'm sure their point totals would take a big tumble. Look at Cammy for example. He's being paid almost twice as much as Andrei. Is he twice the goal scorer that Andrei is. I don't think so.

And despite the exaggeration from many posters, his defence has improved immensely. Andrei will never be the fantasy player we all dreamed of when he was drafted in 2003. Let's leave those daydreams where they belong and let's look at the player we got: one of the top players when it comes to points, +/-, and hits ON THIS TEAM.
This is in part what I'm saying. You look at a team like Ottawa that is doing so poorly statistically. There are still players on that team who aren't putting up career numbers who are having the best season of their career in terms of how they are playing. A team is a team though.

EDIT: Not disagreeing with the guy above but on one of the goals Andrei clearly taps his stick to Gio and is clearly open, has the goalie for sure thinking Gio is going to pass and he doesn't. We get the goal. This comes back to earlier in the season where I was defending Gomez and Gionta's production due to lack of a line mate. If he was coming down with Travis Moen Gio might have not gotten that goal. Goalies aren't stupid, they know who the real threats are and they play percentages. You see Moen + Gio coming down you're likely going to focus on Gio and hope Moen ****s up the shot if he gets a pass.

If you see AK + Plek/Gio/etc though you can't ever be certain. This is why Gio and Gomer had so much trouble producing, they were far too predictable. Granted Gomer is having a terrible season but had they had a line mate all year he'd be having an average or below average season, not a terrible one.

For that fact alone we got a goal. Yeah it was a nice shot, they had the goalie expecting a pass though. That's half the battle sometimes.


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02-02-2011, 02:18 PM
  #65
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And 4 points in his first 20 games.

28 games don't make a career. Good spin though.
Adjusting to a new team and system? Recovering from injury and playing on the bottom lines to star the year? Playing only 10 minutes / game for the 1st 20 ?

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02-02-2011, 02:19 PM
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Adjusting to a new team and system? Recovering from injury and playing on the bottom lines to star the year? Playing only 10 minutes / game for the 1st 20 ?
All very reasonable reasons?

Here are a few for why he has been producing:

Being given an actual chance? Being treated like an NHL player when you are one? Playing a system that doesn't handicap offense in some way shape or form?

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02-02-2011, 02:52 PM
  #67
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Ummm, I don't think there was any "battle" between AK and a Wash D.

http://video.canadiens.nhl.com/video...WSH235&fr=true

If there was any battle in that sequence, it would be Gomez's.

Just saying.
Agree and disagree. LOL

I don't think it's a stretch to say AK had to manuever to make the play happen. But that's pretty much the point I guess. Even when he makes a play he doesn't get credit for it. And the same for Gomez - he did win the biggest battle but his critics probably had the blinders on at that moment and there's nothing showing up in the boxscore for him.

To sum up - I agree with the point the poster was trying to make. That's how it is for some players - there is enough dislike, hate or whatever that anything they do contribute is overshadowed by a blunder that proably every other guy on the roster has made maybe even moreso.

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02-02-2011, 02:53 PM
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Ummm, I don't think there was any "battle" between AK and a Wash D.

http://video.canadiens.nhl.com/video...WSH235&fr=true

If there was any battle in that sequence, it would be Gomez's.

Just saying.
Well, I'd call it a battle. But if I say that he won the shoulder-on-shoulder against the Caps d, is that better by your definition of the word?

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02-02-2011, 02:57 PM
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That's what happens with streaky players. None of this scapegoat thing is particular to Montreal - in fact you can see this everywhere, even for the most skilled players in the league. Gaborik, for example, is as streaky has it gets. The fans over there aren't happy with his poor back-checking and lazy plays. Ryder was also really streaky in Montreal and now in Boston; Bruins fans were ready to trade him for pucks last season but he's been good this year.

These kind of players can be frustrating for the fans because some games they're dominating, some games they're invisible. They're much more frustrating when you depend on them to win you games, which they will sometimes but not on a regular basis.

I'm not mad at Andrei. I think he's a good 2nd line sniper. Let me use a cliché; he has all the tools but not the toolbox.

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02-02-2011, 03:31 PM
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I'm not mad at Andrei. I think he's a good 2nd line sniper. Let me use a cliché; he has all the tools but not the toolbox.
Yeah but he has a tool belt. Will that do?

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02-02-2011, 03:38 PM
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I have nothing to say against A.Kost since his meeting with JM.. I think he has been pretty solid lately, he is more involved in the action, he is getting scoring chances, win his battles along the board, cycle the puck better and thats the way he will have success.

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That's what happens with streaky players. None of this scapegoat thing is particular to Montreal - in fact you can see this everywhere, even for the most skilled players in the league. Gaborik, for example, is as streaky has it gets. The fans over there aren't happy with his poor back-checking and lazy plays. Ryder was also really streaky in Montreal and now in Boston; Bruins fans were ready to trade him for pucks last season but he's been good this year.

These kind of players can be frustrating for the fans because some games they're dominating, some games they're invisible. They're much more frustrating when you depend on them to win you games, which they will sometimes but not on a regular basis.

I'm not mad at Andrei. I think he's a good 2nd line sniper. Let me use a cliché; he has all the tools but not the toolbox.
Has Ryder ever been dominant? He has limited skills and hockey sense, the only thing he had is a great wrister, what was his bread and butter, especially on the PP but the other teams adjusted..

What any coaches are asking first from their players is consistency in the effort to have everyone pushing in the same direction at the same time, thats the way you win games.. You can struggles offensively but as long as the effort is there you just cant blame someone for his lack of productivity.. Take Gionta for example, he has been struggling offensively but the effort has always been there, its tough to criticize someone when he is playing hard all the time.. A.Kost has been a long stretch where he was cheating, not being involved in the action enough, just trying to not make mistakes, personally I call it a passenger, thats what was the reproach..


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02-02-2011, 03:59 PM
  #72
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Has Ryder ever been dominant? He has limited skills and hockey sense, the only thing he had is a great wrister, what was his bread and butter, especially on the PP but the other teams adjusted..
Even then his wrister on the pp was made even more lethal by having the league's best slapshot in Souray and an even more lethal wristshot in Kovalev.

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02-02-2011, 04:17 PM
  #73
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Has Ryder ever been dominant? He has limited skills and hockey sense, the only thing he had is a great wrister, what was his bread and butter, especially on the PP but the other teams adjusted..

What any coaches are asking first from their players is consistency in the effort to have everyone pushing in the same direction at the same time, thats the way you win games.. You can struggles offensively but as long as the effort is there you just cant blame someone for his lack of productivity.. Take Gionta for example, he has been struggling offensively but the effort has always been there, its tough to criticize someone when he is playing hard all the time.. A.Kost has been a long stretch where he was cheating, not being involved in the action enough, just trying to not make mistakes, personally I call it a passenger, thats what was the reproach..
Ryder has never been dominant per say, but he's had 2 seasons of 30 goals with one 25 goals season. My point was that, like Kostitsyn, he's streaky and always will be. I'm not sold on Andrei's hockeysense neither. All in all, I'm accepting that Andrei's only a second line player that looks like he's having all the tools to be a first line player.

And, of course, Andrei is just not the type of player that will give his 100% every game. It's like that, and this is a common thing around the league. Not every players are Kostopoulos, yet not every players have the skills of Andrei. IMO, as long Andrei's shooting and scoring some goals I'm happy; he just needs to avoid making costly mistakes, which could make me change my mind.

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02-02-2011, 06:02 PM
  #74
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i gave up on him after oct/nov when everyone was making frere andrei photoshops and things of the like. i thought this was going to be a season where he got it together where it wouldn't take him 25 games to warm up. he has worn out his welcome imo. he can probably have success elswhere, so just trade him to the west and be done with it. this is a change i think will be mutually good.

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02-02-2011, 06:16 PM
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Good & bad.
Bad-he whiffs on the shot in close.
Good-he moves to the puck out if his zone to Gionta quickly, knocks down the d-man to create the 2 on 1. Then smartly draws the other D wide giving Gionta plenty of room to walk in and hammer it home.
Love him & hate him, but makes the big play to get the team & Gionta going-probably the turning point of the game.

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