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Old
02-16-2011, 11:30 AM
  #251
Chimaera
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Yeah, I don't really agree. I get what you're saying, but they're not going to be bringing in 5 or 6 guys to start.

2, tops. Maybe 3. Even so, they will get some of them early in the summer, and they can adapt by November or so by the latest.

If you buy guys with class, they can fit in what's already a solid nucleus of the squad. They have that. Suarez, Carroll, Reina (if he stays, even if he doesn't, GK doesn't impact whether someone settles) and the rest can be built around with one or two parts.

class works out, and it can fit in. They just need to make sure they buy class. Not junk.

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02-16-2011, 11:41 AM
  #252
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Alrighty then, lets take your beloved club out of this conversation for a second.

Hypothetical situation. Player A, B, C, D, and E can each go to one of teams Z, Y, X, W, or V where they will all join teams with 10 settled starters and they will fill that 11th spot or they can all go to team U, which needs 5 new starters.

Where are the players most likely to settle quickly, one to each settled team or all 5 to one unsettled team?

And yeah that incredible leadership did a wonderful job of getting the last crop of new guys to settle in quickly and play decently...
Your comments on Citeh are funny. They keep buying strikers. Their midfield is their problem. They've cornered the market on slow holding midfielders who make rash challenges. They also concede way too much. Their manager is crap. Give them someone good and they win the league.

As for Liverpool...
What 5 or 6 guys do they need to replace? And by replace, I mean replace them right away, match day one?

They need one starter. Maybe two. They need a winger. Period. They could use a leftback, but I have a sneaky suspicion that they will continue to play Johnson there.

Could they upgrade in the middle? Sure. I think they could stand to add a player like M'Vila. But if they add him, they don't have to put in the guy right away. Lucas can hold down the fort until they improve and settle. Even at the Winger spot, they could work them in slow if they desired.

They can certainly stand to upgrade some spots, but it's not like their squad (with Suarez and Carroll and health all around) is dire to begin with. Is it as good as Chelsea? I would think they're comparable. Probably can hang with Arsenal as well. Over the season, the depth is the issue more than anything else. They need to add quality options. If they just added a player in the Hazard class (world class level talent) alone, they're a good shout for top 4.

They're not going to have to fire sale clear out and bring in players. Heck, if they get Adam and Young, they don't even need to worry about them having to really settle.


As for your last comments, settling under Roy Hodgson is a joke. He's a terrible manager with barely a 28% win percentage. No one could settle with him, if you're not prepared to hoof it long and play for the draw.





edit: Note, Maybe I'm not clear. When I say they need 5 or 6 players, I mean over a time period, and most being young players they groom into the squad. I only think rationally that they would bring in 2 or 3 players at most who would fit into the XI from day 1. That's easily manageable. If you're bringing in crap like Konchesky or Poulsen, then, sure, it won't settle.

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02-16-2011, 12:03 PM
  #253
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Well if you think they are a probable Champions League team with just the addition of a wide player then that is fine with me. I don't even close to agree but it is your team.

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02-16-2011, 12:07 PM
  #254
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Well if you think they are a probable Champions League team with just the addition of a wide player then that is fine with me. I don't even close to agree but it is your team.
No?

A lot depends on who spends what come summer, but I think they're closer than you think. They've been pretty solid in the last 6 or so matches.

With health, fitness, and their buys working out, they should be fine.

A lot depends on Suarez and Carroll settling and being effective, but I think that's feasible.

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02-16-2011, 12:32 PM
  #255
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No?

A lot depends on who spends what come summer, but I think they're closer than you think. They've been pretty solid in the last 6 or so matches.

With health, fitness, and their buys working out, they should be fine.

A lot depends on Suarez and Carroll settling and being effective, but I think that's feasible.
No.

If all that quality is/was already in place then why the 7th place finish last year and comparable first half of the season this year? Benitez and Hodgson and the lack of a single player?

And no Hodgson is not a terrible manager. Terrible managers don't lead the likes of Fulham to Europa League spots in leagues of the quality of the EPL.

And building a squad capable of seriously competing for a Champions League spot in the EPL is not just about putting together a nice starting 11 but having at least 5 or 6 other guys who can step in with little or no drop off. Liverpool isn't anywhere close to having a squad of that caliber IMO.

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02-16-2011, 01:26 PM
  #256
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He's a terrible manager for us. While the squad that was left is getting older, and did need to add some youth and new options, it wasn't as dire as he would have led people to believe. He's too small potatoes and gave no confidence to the players. He too often talked about being lucky to get the draw or about how we weren't good enough. You can't manage Liverpool like that. We're a big fish. Even if we're not playing like it, we shouldn't be playing down to the Stokes, the Wolves, the West Hams. Instead he would go out and act like we would be lucky to draw. Heck, when is the last time he has won an Away match?

He was trying to play route 1 football. Trying to hoof it long, and bunker down to win against sides that Liverpool are clearly better than.

He was trying to make a team of thoroughbreds be plow horses. His tactics involved hoof it long towards Fernando Torres and have him try to be Carlton Cole or Emile Hesky. That doesn't cut it. Hodgson sent a servicable player in Insua out on loan and replaced him with out and out crap. He played Raul out on the right wing. Right wing. Are you freaking kidding me? That's absurd. He tried to slot Gerrard as basically a holding midfielder with occasional room to go forward. He even decided in his infinite genius, to place Kuyt on the left (where he's dire). Throw in to putting leg irons on Johnson going forward and you had basically a squad that was left to having no offense whatsoever. He played to invite teams onto him, and didn't have anywhere near the players to play that type of game. No 7 foot Norwegian defender in the middle to head down any attack. Didn't have 3 or 4 holding midfielders to slot in there and run for days.

The side that Rafa left did have some problems, but they were better than being in the bottom in the relegation table. However, the injuries last season were above and beyond what most every side faces. They had times when they had 12 or 13 players on the injury sheet. Yes, they did rely too much on Torres and Gerrard, but that kind of makes sense when at times, they've been in the discussion for top 10 players in the world.

As for now, they're good enough to beat Chelsea. They showed it, even without Suarez and Carroll. Away even. They've all but locked up 6th, as long as they continue to play decently, they will finish there. More than that might be pushing it (though 5th is a possibility) but it's been a dramatic shift in fortunes.

Sure, they need some tweaks, but over this last stretch of the season, you're going to see. If Suarez is as good as he could be, and Carroll is decent or better, they're a fair shout for Europe sooner or later. Depth is still an issue, certainly, but I think you're fooling yourself if you don't think they won't at least add some parts this summer. What do they look like with Enrique, Adam, Young, Marveaux (who some are saying already might have a pre-contract), and maybe another top level player (Hazard, Gervinho, or one of a few other attacking players) coming on board? Maybe not CL right away, but they're in the discussion.

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02-16-2011, 01:30 PM
  #257
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Note, were they to get Enrique, Young/Hazard, Adam, Marveaux, and another player, only Young/Hazard would be a layup to start. Enrique might as well, but that's to be seen.

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02-16-2011, 02:25 PM
  #258
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I'm sorry beating Chelsea in a one off means very little IMO if the discussion is about being a good bet to be a top 4 EPL team. I mean Wolves beat ManU for God's sake and nobody is going to claim they are going anywhere but down.

Sure Liverpool might only be a couple of good players away from being able to put a top 4 capable starting 11 out there but they aren't close to having a top 4 capable squad. The idea that the talent is there but that 2 managers in a row and injuries are to blame doesn't work for me. Injuries happen, that is why you need a deep and talented squad. You are competing on 4 fronts in England playing 2 games a week and also sending guys off to internationals every other month.

I guess I just think you are overrating your current talent, that's all.

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02-16-2011, 03:34 PM
  #259
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Arsenal.

Hell yes.

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Old
02-16-2011, 03:45 PM
  #260
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Honestly, this result stuns me. I was sure Arsenal would get rolled.

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02-16-2011, 03:46 PM
  #261
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Arsenal.

Hell yes.
Yeah that was quite a comeback and a fantastic result. The way Arsenal came out after halftime and really bossed the game was impressive. When you go down to a team like Barca it is very easy to just wilt but the Gunners didn't and they did it in style also.

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02-16-2011, 03:51 PM
  #262
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Honestly, this result stuns me. I was sure Arsenal would get rolled.
Why? They are a very solid team and can play just as stylishly as Barca. Plus they have so many attacking options. It was very key that Nasri was able to play and thus they could bring Arshavin off the bench when they needed to.

That away goal for Barca is key to the tie though as Arsenal is going to have to score in the Camp Nou as they aren't going to shut Barca out at home.

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02-16-2011, 03:58 PM
  #263
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Why? They are a very solid team and can play just as stylishly as Barca. Plus they have so many attacking options. It was very key that Nasri was able to play and thus they could bring Arshavin off the bench when they needed to.

That away goal for Barca is key to the tie though as Arsenal is going to have to score in the Camp Nou as they aren't going to shut Barca out at home.
The result is stunning because Arsenal never wins big games. Although this plus the Chealsea win might mean things are finally coming together.

I hope being alive in all four competitions doesn't wear them out and prevent them from winning any of them.

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02-16-2011, 04:13 PM
  #264
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The result is stunning because Arsenal never wins big games. Although this plus the Chealsea win might mean things are finally coming together.

I hope being alive in all four competitions doesn't wear them out and prevent them from winning any of them.
Yeah but this team is a lot more solid top to bottom than they have been over the last few seasons by a decent amount. Much of the youth has come of age and they have been able to do it without their best defender in Vermaelen all season.

They are still going to lose this tie IMO but the idea that they were going to get rolled at the Emirates when they drew that game last year and are a good bit better this year I don't quite understand.

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02-16-2011, 04:59 PM
  #265
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Yeah but this team is a lot more solid top to bottom than they have been over the last few seasons by a decent amount. Much of the youth has come of age and they have been able to do it without their best defender in Vermaelen all season.

They are still going to lose this tie IMO but the idea that they were going to get rolled at the Emirates when they drew that game last year and are a good bit better this year I don't quite understand.
Barcelona rolled Real Madrid, so the prevailing theory is that they can roll anyone. Combine that with the popular notion that Arsenal is mentally fragile and also that Arsenal would attempt to play an open game rather than turtling, the possibility for a laugher was there.

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02-17-2011, 04:03 PM
  #266
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Impressive trip to Prague by the Reds...

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02-17-2011, 05:10 PM
  #267
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Impressive trip to Prague by the Reds...
Yawn.

No gerrard, no suarez, no carroll. Kuyt is spent. Ngog is crap, what more did you expect?

I could've told you the probable result six hours ago when the squad was let loose.

At Anfield, if this result happens then let me know.

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02-17-2011, 06:00 PM
  #268
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Yawn.

No gerrard, no suarez, no carroll. Kuyt is spent. Ngog is crap, what more did you expect?

I could've told you the probable result six hours ago when the squad was let loose.

At Anfield, if this result happens then let me know.
Hey hey hey, that squad is only a player or two away from being a solid top 4 bet...

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02-17-2011, 07:35 PM
  #269
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Hey hey hey, that squad is only a player or two away from being a solid top 4 bet...
They are.




With Carroll up top, Suarez in the team, Agger, Gerrard, and another attacking player (preferably a left winger) they're a significantly different team than the one who played today.

But yeah, when Ngog's playing up top, they must be the real deal.

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02-18-2011, 08:28 AM
  #270
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They are.




With Carroll up top, Suarez in the team, Agger, Gerrard, and another attacking player (preferably a left winger) they're a significantly different team than the one who played today.

But yeah, when Ngog's playing up top, they must be the real deal.
I don't know what to tell you. Every other big team in the EPL would have gone out there with 6 starters and 5 squad players and taken the game to Sparta Prague. If the only way they can beat a team of that level is if their big guns are playing then they clearly have nowhere near as strong a squad as they need to be a top 4 EPL team.

Sure they should be able to beat them at Anfield but for a team of Liverpool's level to go to Prague and basically play for a draw is embarrassing.

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02-18-2011, 09:12 AM
  #271
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I don't know what to tell you. Every other big team in the EPL would have gone out there with 6 starters and 5 squad players and taken the game to Sparta Prague. If the only way they can beat a team of that level is if their big guns are playing then they clearly have nowhere near as strong a squad as they need to be a top 4 EPL team.

Sure they should be able to beat them at Anfield but for a team of Liverpool's level to go to Prague and basically play for a draw is embarrassing.
City just did the exact same thing in the Europa league, and with a side much closer to full-strength, against a mid-table Greek club. Is this an indication that they aren't top 4 material either?

A 0-0 draw on the road in the knockout rounds isn't a bad result, especially with your core creative/attacking players out of the game. You seem to have fun trying to bait Liverpool supporters though, so do what you wish.

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02-18-2011, 09:13 AM
  #272
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I don't know what to tell you. Every other big team in the EPL would have gone out there with 6 starters and 5 squad players and taken the game to Sparta Prague. If the only way they can beat a team of that level is if their big guns are playing then they clearly have nowhere near as strong a squad as they need to be a top 4 EPL team.

Sure they should be able to beat them at Anfield but for a team of Liverpool's level to go to Prague and basically play for a draw is embarrassing.
Once again, it's no big deal.

They're not an awful side, and while I think Liverpool should have been more positive, a draw is a draw. the win will be easy to get at home.

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02-19-2011, 09:02 AM
  #273
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Once again, it's no big deal.

They're not an awful side, and while I think Liverpool should have been more positive, a draw is a draw. the win will be easy to get at home.
There is a big difference between City playing well, having 60% of possession, creating plenty of chances and just not finding a way through and Liverpool taking 3 shots all game, none on target, and getting outplayed for a good part of the game by much lesser opposition. There was only ever going to be one winner of that game if there was one and it wasn't Liverpool.

Wow heck of a free kick by Baines to send their FA Cup tie with Chelsea to penalties.

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02-19-2011, 09:24 AM
  #274
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Hah, Chelski out of the cup...

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02-22-2011, 02:14 PM
  #275
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So that's what it looks like when one of our strikers scores a goal.

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