what do people know about atlanta and their ownership issues? i hear things have been heating up for them more and more lately and that they have been tryin to sell or find investors since the lock out...
Phoenix has had issues with securing funds lately too. Their apparent 'deal' to keep the team in Arizona may fall through still. It's pretty tough in Winnipeg. We've been teased for several years now. We DO know a group headed up by Mark Chipman (Manitoba Moose) IS interested in bringing back the NHL. It's inevitable that at least a couple southern teams will eventually pack it in. I would love to see Winnipeg (obviously), Quebec City and a southern Ontario team.
Wow, three posts in an the cynical "Winnipeg will never get a team" chant hasn't popped up yet. Tobans deserve a team to cheer for and call their own. 15 years of chanting "Go Jets Go" in IHL/AHL games is too long.
If ticket prices are even close to the price in Edmonton, they can not afford to attend more than a few games each season... And neither can almost everybody they know...
And unless Winnipeg gets a core of 15,000 season tickets sold........
If ticket prices are even close to the price in Edmonton, they can not afford to attend more than a few games each season... And neither can almost everybody they know...
And unless Winnipeg gets a core of 15,000 season tickets sold........
How is that any different than Edmonton though? It's not like regular attendance at an Oilers game is an "everyman" activity. It's a luxury item and nobody is pretending otherwise.
what do people know about atlanta and their ownership issues? i hear things have been heating up for them more and more lately and that they have been tryin to sell or find investors since the lock out...
thoughts or info?
Arena is too small for a game fuelled by the gate
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some strange unwarranted fear of him owning a team happened
It was Balsille's loud mouth that got him blacklisted. If he didn't act so brash towards the league, he'd have a better chance of getting his teem.
This Winnipeg thing is getting painful. You people from there who are hockey fans and waiting to get a team back have the patience of saints. I always keep my fingers crossed for the city, as Winnipeg should undoubtedly have its own team to cheer for.
Despite the NHLPA poll results saying that the players would like to see a team back in Winnipeg... well, would those same players play in Winnipeg? Probably not. It's becoming more and more futile for Canadian NHL teams unless they're winning like Vancouver is.
How is that any different than Edmonton though? It's not like regular attendance at an Oilers game is an "everyman" activity. It's a luxury item and nobody is pretending otherwise.
That's not true at all. Winnipeg is hurting big time. The cost of living is substantially cheaper. People are cheaper, unemployment is higher, economic growth is slower and taxes are higher. After all, they're governed by the ndp. Prices would have to be 2/3 or less than Edmonton or more for people to afford it over there.
If ticket prices are even close to the price in Edmonton, they can not afford to attend more than a few games each season... And neither can almost everybody they know...
And unless Winnipeg gets a core of 15,000 season tickets sold........
That's the issue, and that is the reason Winnipeg will not be getting a team anytime soon.
Atlanta has one of the largest corporate bases in The World. I hate the city of Atlanta and their sports fans. They have the NBA, NFL, NHL and MLB. They are on the same level (having all 4 major sports teams) as Boston, New York, Philadelphia, Washington. Which is laughable.
I've been all over the world for business and the people in Atlanta care about two things: High School Football & College Football. Hell, the NFL had a hard time there until they drafted the most exciting player since Bo Jackson, Vick. Support for the Falcons has been way down (until this year) once Vick left.
But The Thrashers are not leaving Atlanta anytime soon.
Bring me into the history of this: why do Edmonton fans want Winnipeg to land a team? Just another Canadian team in the mix and the return of a rivalry or?
If ticket prices are even close to the price in Edmonton, they can not afford to attend more than a few games each season... And neither can almost everybody they know...
And unless Winnipeg gets a core of 15,000 season tickets sold........
Yeah the talk has always been that they would likely only break even on average, but we have seen owners willing to step up and own a team with that knowledge. Breaking even is still MUCH better than the situations in Phoenix, Atlanta and Miami. What I would like to know is if David Thompson is still involved? If that's the case, and he is willing to own the team knowing that it's not really an investment it's a hobby (to him) then they are set. I'm lead to believe he is based on I've never seen that he has backed out. David Thompson would be amazing for Winnipeg and amazing for the NHL.
Bring me into the history of this: why do Edmonton fans want Winnipeg to land a team? Just another Canadian team in the mix and the return of a rivalry or?
In my case it's because I want to see another Canadian team. It would be cool to get that rivalry going again but that would be secondary. That city got there hearts ripped out in 96 and the team went to a city that couldn't have given a **** about hockey. It was just wrong and IMO only happened because Bettman wanted to land a big TV deal...which the league is still waiting for.
Yeah the talk has always been that they would likely only break even on average, but we have seen owners willing to step up and own a team with that knowledge. Breaking even is still MUCH better than the situations in Phoenix, Atlanta and Miami. What I would like to know is if David Thompson is still involved? If that's the case, and he is willing to own the team knowing that it's not really an investment it's a hobby (to him) then they are set. I'm lead to believe he is based on I've never seen that he has backed out. David Thompson would be amazing for Winnipeg and amazing for the NHL.
True North which is run by Mark Chipman and is backed by the Thompson's are involved. With the salary cap and new arena not only can they make a go of it they believe they can make money doing it. They were very close to getting Atlanta but the NHL put the kibosh on it and if things don't work out in Phoenix soon they will be back in Winnipeg.
You have a well run business org in True North with a new arena and one of the richest men in the world involved. The only thing standing in the way is Bettmen and the NHL.
Bring me into the history of this: why do Edmonton fans want Winnipeg to land a team? Just another Canadian team in the mix and the return of a rivalry or?
Apart from having a rival back, there is the issue that Canadian teams make money which means a higher salary cap, so we can keep some players.
Yeah the talk has always been that they would likely only break even on average, but we have seen owners willing to step up and own a team with that knowledge. Breaking even is still MUCH better than the situations in Phoenix, Atlanta and Miami. What I would like to know is if David Thompson is still involved? If that's the case, and he is willing to own the team knowing that it's not really an investment it's a hobby (to him) then they are set. I'm lead to believe he is based on I've never seen that he has backed out. David Thompson would be amazing for Winnipeg and amazing for the NHL.
As Joe says, Thomson is involved.
TSNE is not a group of wannab's. I would expect they are fully aware of the cost of doing business in the NHL. But they have extremely deep pockets, own the arena and other properties around it out right with no debt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnott4prez
what do people know about atlanta and their ownership issues? i hear things have been heating up for them more and more lately and that they have been tryin to sell or find investors since the lock out...
In my case it's because I want to see another Canadian team. It would be cool to get that rivalry going again but that would be secondary. That city got there hearts ripped out in 96 and the team went to a city that couldn't have given a **** about hockey. It was just wrong and IMO only happened because Bettman wanted to land a big TV deal...which the league is still waiting for.
Not to mention we nearly went through the same thing a few years later, only to be saved by the EIG. So we sympathize with the people of Winnipeg.
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over the past few years there has been a war in the business of hockey board and I have learned to stay away from the discussion there.
A few years ago one of the finacial papers did research into the viability of both Quebec city and the peg.
The peg has a few problems
1) The Arena is too small to support a team that is in a league that is gate driven. The peg crows countered that the arena can be expanded by up to 3k-bringing the the seating to 18.5k--the question was then asked how many of the new seats would have obstructed view? almost all was the answer
2) Any business proposal has the canadian buck remaining and needing to stay above 90cents---what happens if the Canadian buck goes back to the 70cent range?
3) Long term would the fans be willing for fork over the highest average seat price in the NHL long term? Three things killed the jets--bad ownership, the team sucked and fans stopped going. IN most cases if you win--they will come and seats filled make an owner happy. A bad team on the ice, keeps fans away(usually) and make owners unhappy.
last census had the peg with just over 700k in people. 8th largest city behind quebec city. While you think that would be anough to get 15 to 20 k a night for game--after a few years--if the team sucks--people would not want to fork over say $90 per ticket for bad seats
another flaw in most plans for the peg is relying in NHL hand outs--nhl wants to get away from that and have teams be self supportive 100%
and I know I will get flamed by the pro-peg people
over the past few years there has been a war in the business of hockey board and I have learned to stay away from the discussion there.
A few years ago one of the finacial papers did research into the viability of both Quebec city and the peg.
The peg has a few problems
1) The Arena is too small to support a team that is in a league that is gate driven. The peg crows countered that the arena can be expanded by up to 3k-bringing the the seating to 18.5k--the question was then asked how many of the new seats would have obstructed view? almost all was the answer
2) Any business proposal has the canadian buck remaining and needing to stay above 90cents---what happens if the Canadian buck goes back to the 70cent range?
3) Long term would the fans be willing for fork over the highest average seat price in the NHL long term? Three things killed the jets--bad ownership, the team sucked and fans stopped going. IN most cases if you win--they will come and seats filled make an owner happy. A bad team on the ice, keeps fans away(usually) and make owners unhappy.
last census had the peg with just over 700k in people. 8th largest city behind quebec city. While you think that would be anough to get 15 to 20 k a night for game--after a few years--if the team sucks--people would not want to fork over say $90 per ticket for bad seats
another flaw in most plans for the peg is relying in NHL hand outs--nhl wants to get away from that and have teams be self supportive 100%
and I know I will get flamed by the pro-peg people
Those same arguments have been shot down time and time again.
1. The arena is too small. No its not too small its the perfect size for the city and a NHL team in Winnipeg. The limited seating will always ensure a sell out because seats will be at a premium to find. The season ticket base will be around 11-12K easily.
2. The dollar goes up and the dollar goes down. Thats just the way it goes and any good business in Canada will prepare for that. Using it as an excuse to justify why a team should not be here is not viable since there are already 6 other teams in Canada who would have to live with the same dollar
3. We wouldn't have the highest average seat price. We wouldn't be close to Toronto or Vancover or New York or Montreal. We would have the same or prices you have in Edmonton or Calgary and yes people would easily pay 70-90 bucks for upper bowl tickets. The City has 700K+ people and more than half are hockey fans. Not sure if you know this but go to Phoenix and ask the every day person "every watch a hockey game?" 95 percent of the people will answer no. Can you say the same for any place in Canada?
As for everything else I am not sure if people can grasp the concept of True North and the backing it has. Katz is a billionaire but his money does not compare to what the Thompsons have. Think about that for a minute. Yes someone in Winnipeg is very very wealthy and has a very well oiled business machine in place that knows how to get the most of out of its hockey operations currently here.
This is a business operation that doesn't want hand outs and does not need them. They own everything in and around the arena and have no debt to speak off. The have an extremely profitable minor league team that makes them millions already. They have done the numbers and have figured out with the current salary cap and operating costs of running a team what they would need to do to keep a team here that is competitive and cost effective. They believe they can make it work and work well.
Bring me into the history of this: why do Edmonton fans want Winnipeg to land a team? Just another Canadian team in the mix and the return of a rivalry or?
Edmonton has never won a cup without beating the Jets so them not being in the league makes it a lot harder.
That's not true at all. Winnipeg is hurting big time. The cost of living is substantially cheaper. People are cheaper, unemployment is higher, economic growth is slower and taxes are higher. After all, they're governed by the ndp. Prices would have to be 2/3 or less than Edmonton or more for people to afford it over there.
It most certainly is true. The assertion was that many/most Winnipegers would not be able to afford more than a few games each year, and that Edmonton was somehow in a different boat. While Edmontonians might have a bit more cash floating around, it is, without a doubt, a luxury item and is hardly affordable entertainment for the average joe. I am a young professional just out of university, and I can only afford a few games each year. A mini-pack would be a huge expense, and season tickets would decimate my income altogether. The bulk of season tickets in Winnipeg will go to businesses and wealthy or at least upper-middle class individuals, just as they do here in Edmonton. The challenge for Winnipeg won't be that people can't or won't buy the tickets. It is that their arena can only seat 15,000 and they don't have as much of a business presence as Calgary or Edmonton.
Either way, it's a moot point for two reasons:
1) Would you rather own a team in Phoenix or Winnipeg? It's not about Winnipeg being a perfect market, it's about them being better than at least two of the existing ones, and
2) It has been reported that David Thomson views bringing a team to Winnipeg as an act of charity. When you are as rich as him, any losses from a Winnipeg franchise would be a small red blip on an income statement. He would be, if I'm not mistaken, far and away the wealthiest owner in the NHL.
My amove comments have been debunked by the pro peg group and proven by none peg group. And there lays the battle ground. The pro peg group continues to say the arena is not a problem. All studies they have done factor in non hockey night revenues to prop up the team and non hockey nights are wild card in my opinion. Part of the reason edmonton says they need a new arena is because the seating Is too small. The peg hopes depend too much on coperate cllients ponying up cash year in and year out. The team would need to be at 100percent everygame. The nhl is propping up too many teams and they don't want to be in a position to do it with a moived team. The nhl has had billion dollor owners who walked after losing too much money and to say the canadian dollor and how it rates against the usa dollor is no a factor is being nieve. Canadian teams take a beating everytime the buck goes down
