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Devan Dubnyk or Marek Schwarz

View Poll Results: Devan Dubnyk or Marek Schwarz?
Devan Dubnyk 42 46.67%
Marek Schwarz 48 53.33%
Voters: 90. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
06-27-2004, 08:27 PM
  #1
windowlicker
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Devan Dubnyk or Marek Schwarz

Assuming Lowe was set on taking a goaltender at 14 due to Buffalo taking Stafford at 13, should he have went with Schwarz, or indeed Dubnyk?

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06-27-2004, 08:33 PM
  #2
dawgbone
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I've never seen Dubnyk play, just read about what he did in Belarus for the under-18's.

Marek Schwarz, I've seen him play 3 times, and not once did he even resemble a guy who looked like a future NHL goaltender. Add to that he is European, and we don't seem to be able to get these guys over in one piece and with confidence.

btw... before anyone blasts me for following Lowe blindly, please remember that I have always made my opinion about Schwarz known. Also, I insisted the Oilers would have gotten a decent goalie at 44, but by then the top 7 were all gone, so looking back on it, I'm glad they didn't take my strategy.

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06-27-2004, 08:40 PM
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The main question is: Name at least 3 goalies of superstar/legendary calibre with Dubnyk's stature? Schwartz was the best puckstopper in this draft. But I could really care less what the CSS rankings state. Devan Dubnyk is going to be a solid goaltender. He has starter potential and i think next season will be his breakout season. All hockey players say that the draft year is the most stressful year and now that his draft year is over...he can just focus and play his game in Kamloops next year. I think he has more potential that JDD and he's not as big of a gamble as most of you worry about. Montoya is the goalie only i would have rather had than Dubs. For all the people who can't make up their own minds and bash Lowe based on their decision that a crappy magazine is better at assesing talent that Kevin Lowe; all i got to say is wait 5 years and we'll see who gets the last laugh. Lowe and Co. have rebuilt this team so well through the draft in such a short period of time. Remember people, Lowe played with legends like Fuhr, Gretzky, Messier, Coffey and so on and so forth. He knows what real talent looks like when he see's it. Have a little more confidence.

BTW the Robbie Schremp pick was just amazing. I worry that he won't have as much patience as other prospects. Take for example: Jani Rita. He's played a lot of AHL games yet i haven't heard of his grumbling or asking for a trade. If we do the same to Schremp, i have this looming fear that he and his agent are ready and willing to screw the organization over. Robbie is a way bigger gamble than Devan. If we ever do get Robbie signed; we better lock him up for a long time...and include a no trade clause of something. We can't let this one go away.


Last edited by outKast*: 06-27-2004 at 08:51 PM.
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06-27-2004, 08:58 PM
  #4
JJTopper
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Quote:
Name at least 3 goalies of superstar/legendary calibre with Dubnyk's stature?
Ken Dryden (6'4), Sean Burke (6'4) and does Kolzig count (he's only 6'3)? Not sure if you'd consider Burke or Kolzig superstars, but they have both been allstars.

Edit: Not saying if Dub would have been my choice or not. Just wanted to throw out some big goaltender names that have had good careers.


Last edited by JJTopper: 06-27-2004 at 09:01 PM.
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06-27-2004, 09:01 PM
  #5
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Dryden I will give you. Burke and Kolzig will not see the hall of fame. When you forward to 50 years from now, no one will be saying...hey remember tha awesom goalie at in the begining of the Milenium named Olaf Kolzig? Burke and Kolzig are great goalie but not superstars/legendary/HOF's.

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06-27-2004, 09:04 PM
  #6
JJTopper
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Oh, I thought "superstar/legendary" was an option, not the same thing. Because I definatly don't their either of those two are ledendary. Just wasn't sure what your def of superstar was.

Edit: Although, if you want to use size from the past as an argument, then when Chara was drafted you could have said the same thing. How many star dmen of 6'9 have there been? Or when Dyrdan was drafted ect. Size of players have been growing over time as well, so it's hard to say what the future holds.


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06-27-2004, 09:19 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kAsT
Oh, I thought "superstar/legendary" was an option, not the same thing. Because I definatly don't their either of those two are ledendary. Just wasn't sure what your def of superstar was.

Edit: Although, if you want to use size from the past as an argument, then when Chara was drafted you could have said the same thing. How many star dmen of 6'9 have there been? Or when Dyrdan was drafted ect. Size of players have been growing over time as well, so it's hard to say what the future holds.
yah good point. Hopefully everything works out. I'm higher on Dubs than JDD...so if there ever was a future Oiler tandem i can see Dubs being the starter and JDD being a solid back-up.

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06-27-2004, 09:25 PM
  #8
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It will be interesting to see who GuyF rates higher, JDD or Dubs.

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06-27-2004, 09:39 PM
  #9
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I'm not sure if this has been posted but I found this pretty interesting:

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam040627/nhl_edm-sun.html

Particularly this part:

BEST GOALIE IN DRAFT

"Dubnyk, in our opinion, is the best goalie in the draft," chief scout Kevin Prendergast said. "He's got a huge upside. He handles himself very well. He understands the game very well."

Dubnyk, just the second stopper the Oilers have drafted in the first round - Grant Fuhr was the other, in 1981 - fell into Lowe's lap. The Oilers wanted a skilled forward with their first pick, but when other teams plucked the prospects they coveted, they went with the stopper at the top of their list.

"I've kind of been hoping for that the whole way," Dubnyk said of being drafted by the Oilers, who sent scout John Stevenson to see him way back in November. "You can't get too much of a feel for anything because things can change in a hurry.

"It started to get into my head. I was hoping for Edmonton. The interview went well in Toronto, and I felt out I had an extra interview here, so I was kind of leaning toward it."

Dubnyk, who is six-foot-six and has size- 13 feet - the NHL's equipment police might want to measure his skates - joins Jeff Deslauriers as the Oilers' future between the pipes.

"My mindset is to always be working on finding things that are going to help you play," said Dubnyk.

ONE OF THOSE KIDS

"He's one of those kids who, if he wasn't a goalie, he'd probably be the captain of your hockey club," Prendergast said.

"He analyses the game ... Patrick Roy did that. This kid knows the shooters in the WHL, their strengths and weaknesses. He gave us a chart he keeps on them. It was a no-brainer."

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06-27-2004, 09:45 PM
  #10
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This is the kind of thing i see in Dubs. I'm not worried one bit about him at all. He may take 5 years to become an effective starter but he'll be worth the wait.

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06-27-2004, 09:48 PM
  #11
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Dryden is a perfect example of a great goalie with size. He was also very cerebral, which by all accounts, Dubnyk is as well. Smart players adapt, and with maturity, can eliminate the inconsistancy of youth. Patrick Roy was not a small goaltender either, at 6' 2", and his career wasn't too shabby. Ron Hextall also comes to mind as a large goaltender who had a great career, including a Conn Smythe Trophy, although he may not qualify in the superstar category. It used to be in the old NHL that bigger players were slow and somewhat awkward but that has changed with todays training and fitness techniques. Dubnyk is credited with good lateral movement and quickness, exactly the kind of attributes you like in a goalie. He covers a lot of net with his size alone. A little more seasoning and some NHL calibre coaching and we could have a much better than average prospect on our hands. I for one look forward to seeing how he works out.

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06-27-2004, 09:58 PM
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The intangible quality that Dubnyk has that maybe KP and KL likes is his committment. Not to say Schwarz doesn't have it but because the Oilers scouts have seen alot of Dubnyk they probally feel he has the intagibles that make up for what he lacks. Right now he's playing good goaltendting on raw skillls, perhaps with a NHL goaltending coach he can and will learn to improve his game. I still think very highly of JDD, and Dubnyk is not very far behind (if behind at all). I expect to see Dubnyk as the WJC goaltender this year... let's see if he can live up to expectations.

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06-27-2004, 10:23 PM
  #13
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Devan Dubnyk.

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06-27-2004, 10:48 PM
  #14
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Kevin Lowe and his scouting staff are in their positions because they can assess talent. Who are we to even have this debate? Surely we don't know as much as they do or we would have their jobs. Although it's fun to discuss this, we need to stand behind the decision that was made. Klo and his staff obviously saw something others didn't see.

As for Schremp, we can look at the other side of the coin and wonder why he dropped so much. he was projected to go in the top 5 earlier in the year. Why did he go 25? I hope he proves everyone wrong. He has attitude and the Oilers need a little of that. I don't think he will waste away in the AHL like Rita.

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06-27-2004, 10:54 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edmund Oiler
Kevin Lowe and his scouting staff are in their positions because they can assess talent. Who are we to even have this debate? Surely we don't know as much as they do or we would have their jobs. Although it's fun to discuss this, we need to stand behind the decision that was made. Klo and his staff obviously saw something others didn't see.

As for Schremp, we can look at the other side of the coin and wonder why he dropped so much. he was projected to go in the top 5 earlier in the year. Why did he go 25? I hope he proves everyone wrong. He has attitude and the Oilers need a little of that. I don't think he will waste away in the AHL like Rita.
I was watching the draft on TSN and I can't remember who said it. It was either Bob MacKenzie or Pierre McGuire but they said that size had something to do with Schremp falling. Most of the players taken were over 6'.

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06-28-2004, 12:54 AM
  #16
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Hey, if the Oilers think they have the best goalie in the draft, then let's leave it at that for now. They've obviously wanted him for a while and have done a lot of research on him.

No more Kelly/Doan, Pouliot/Parise debates please.

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06-28-2004, 01:15 AM
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I have faith in our scouts. They were the ones that nabbed Deslauriers and Markkanen. I figure they know what a good goaltender is.

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06-28-2004, 01:16 AM
  #18
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Schwarz. I never liked players that were usually tall or short though there are exceptions.

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06-28-2004, 01:58 AM
  #19
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I'm willing to trust Lowe on this one and I personally feel that Dubnyk looks like a keeper. I'll be a bit worried if he grows another 5 inches but I think him and JDD will be neck and neck in a few years. It's nice to have two potential franchise goaltenders in the system for once though..

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06-28-2004, 02:29 AM
  #20
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i don't like schwarz one bit especially when i heard the hasek clone statement

i think he has the most chances of being the biggest bust of the 3 goalies this year

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06-28-2004, 10:28 AM
  #21
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Dubnyk.

Altho, he'll be a late bloomer.
He's smart.
Once he's done growing, it could take a good 2+ yrs for his muscles to fully catch up.
Then... using his brain, his coach and repetition, he can really get into the fine-tuning of his skills.
imho - depending on where he is on the 'learning curve'...
he's probably at least 4+ yrs away from 'belonging' on NHL ice.

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06-28-2004, 11:11 AM
  #22
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1) I've never seen either one play
2) Even if I had, I'm no NHL scout

So, if K-Lowe says D-Dub, I say D-Dub.

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06-28-2004, 11:26 AM
  #23
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Maybe something to consider;

Most draft years, atleast the ones I remember, Goalies generally go in the order they are ranked going in. The only real question becomes what spot they are actually selected.

If you were to do a draft analysis on a ten year span, I would suggest that based on my opinion, only 1 in 3 of the first goalie taken in the draft will prove out to be the actual best goalie of the particular draft year.

In other words, considering that the goalies were generally ranked Montoya - 1, Schwartz - 2, Dubnyk - 3 but without a huge gap between any of them, there is basically even money that anyone of the three will prove to be the best of the class.

So wether Lowe strayed outside the accepted order or or not, he didn't really affect his chance of success by doing it.

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06-28-2004, 04:02 PM
  #24
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I must say I was surprised with the pick, but the Oilers scouting staff has been doing a pretty good job lately, and I think it's best to wait five years before you start making desicions on them based on other scouts comments. I'm guessing most people here are judging Schwarz on one tournament and what they've read. You could be right, but you could just as easily be wrong. Thing is, you won't know for another five years or more, so let it be, there's no point in making this another Parise/Pouliet constant nagging argument. Plus, Dubynk is a much more marketable player (monster goalie from Edmonton) if both goalies do turn out.

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06-28-2004, 04:29 PM
  #25
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I put Schwarz, but I'm going to give the scouts the benefit of the doubt and call it a draw. I was also unimpressed with Schwarz at the WJC. I haven't seen either of the guys play except Schwarz in that tournament.

Just because he's maybe the tallest goalie prospect ever doesn't mean he won't pan out. Tall guys don't generally play goal, but there are definately some great tall athletes out there. If he can use his size and has average reflexes he covers so much net that he should be fine. There's more than one way to skin a cat.

Some things to keep in mind:
Under the Sather regime the Oilers didn't draft a quality goaltender after 1981 when they snagged Fuhr. Granted, they didn't have a great need with the Hall of Fame work of Fuhr and turning Moog into Randford and then dealing for Joseph. The Sather era never produced a reliable guy who could play 20 good games and fill in in case of injuries. They just rode one guy. I think Dubnyk will at least be a quality NHL back-up goalie.

Lowe, on the other hand, drafted Maarkanen 133rd overall in 2001, Delauriers in 2002 and now Dubnyk in 2004, plus he signed Conklin as a free agent. At least this team is trying to build from within and not relying on trades alone to nab a no.1 guy. Kolzig is a great example of a keeper who was a minor leaguer, then a back-up and then a starter and top notch keeper. The Caps developed him and haven't had a need for goaltending for over 8 seasons.

Schwarz and Dubnyk will probably both play in the league eventually. They are way too young to determine which will be better.

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