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The asking price on Fisher is 1st + top prospect

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Old
02-03-2011, 11:56 AM
  #151
PeterSidorkiewicz
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How good is the trade rumours board at gauging the market and what players are worth in trades anyway?

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Old
02-03-2011, 12:02 PM
  #152
NYR Sting
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CPhoenixM View Post
I still don't see how BOS 2011 1st and Zack Hammill is overpayment for Fisher.

I'll ask again: how many guys going in the first round will get 40 - 50 points a year for their career while logging a ton of minutes, blocked shots, hits, playing on PK and being one of the hardest working players on the team? If Fisher had hockey sense he could be one of the best players in the league.
That's not the point. In the first round, you have a chance to get someone significantly better than that. That chance is worth more than what Fisher is, at least to most teams.

Fisher is a role player. A very good role player, but in the first round you are hoping to come away with more than that, whether you get lucky and someone falls to you, or you just make a smart pick where you get a steal. For most teams, Fisher isn't worth losing that chance. To expect to get a top prospect as well is ludicrious, but I'm sure Murray knows that he won't get anywhere near what he's "asking," it's just negotiation ploy.

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02-03-2011, 12:04 PM
  #153
Dick Whitman
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The only reason Fisher's even available is because Ottawa is rebuilding. If we don't get rebuilding pieces in return for Fisher, there is no point in trading him.

It's also funny seeing people offer up the moon for Jordan Staal when he and Fisher are virtually the same type of player (Jordan Staal is obviously more valuable due to his age future *potential*) but conracts are similar as are their numbers and playing style.

Now I'm just going to sit back and wait for the 'oh, he plays 3rd line minutes in Pittsburgh' argument or the 'Jordan Staal is 10x better than Fisher' without anything to back it up.

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02-03-2011, 12:09 PM
  #154
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Yeah good luck with that. Perhaps his wife can yield that kind of return

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Old
02-03-2011, 12:10 PM
  #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
That's not the point. In the first round, you have a chance to get someone significantly better than that. That chance is worth more than what Fisher is, at least to most teams.

Fisher is a role player. A very good role player, but in the first round you are hoping to come away with more than that, whether you get lucky and someone falls to you, or you just make a smart pick where you get a steal. For most teams, Fisher isn't worth losing that chance. To expect to get a top prospect as well is ludicrious, but I'm sure Murray knows that he won't get anywhere near what he's "asking," it's just negotiation ploy.
Desperate teams will, at times, pass on that "chance" in the draft to get something that fills a void now. Teams that are desperate, have prospect depth, are teams you target.

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02-03-2011, 12:12 PM
  #156
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A first and a top prospect? I wouldn't trade either of those things for him, certainly not both. If this is true and isn't Ottawa just starting high for a negotiation it's ridiculous.

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02-03-2011, 12:13 PM
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
Desperate teams will, at times, pass on that "chance" in the draft to get something that fills a void now. Teams that are desperate, have prospect depth, are teams you target.
Desperation in pro sports almost always leads to stupidity, and trading a first rounder for Fisher is stupidity, let alone a top prospect as well. While teams do get desperate, I have a hard time seeing any team in the league right now being desperate enough to make a blunder this big. But then again, Montreal not only took Scott Gomez, but gave up a top prospect for him, too. Never say never.

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02-03-2011, 12:13 PM
  #158
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Pretty sure Fisher may be one of the most overrated guys in the league. Any GM that would pay that asking price should immediately be fired. I would say at most be could fetch a late second round pick.

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02-03-2011, 12:14 PM
  #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterSidorkiewicz View Post
How good is the trade rumours board at gauging the market and what players are worth in trades anyway?
I'm sure there's a value of Dion Phaneuf from January 2010 where Flames fan said DEAL!!!! to:

Aulie, Sjostrom, Phaneuf

for

Stajan, Hagman, Mayers and White



And yes I know Sutter's a baffoon....but the reality involved in the trade and signings forum is non-existent. If teams get desperate and need wins...their stock of "futures" players becomes less valuable and exchanging those for wins right now matters.

For 2/3s of the league, it's a winning-oriented business, winning right now matters. And for some teams....winning, making the playoffs, getting to a certain round, winning the Cup, etc and filling a void to reach those goals and save jobs are crucial at the moment.

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02-03-2011, 12:15 PM
  #160
Dick Whitman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
Desperation in pro sports almost always leads to stupidity, and trading a first rounder for Fisher is stupidity, let alone a top prospect as well. While teams do get desperate, I have a hard time seeing any team in the league right now being desperate enough to make a blunder this big. But then again, Montreal not only took Scott Gomez, but gave up a top prospect for him, too. Never say never.
And the habs made it to the conference finals. Maybe, just maybe you're not as smart as you think you are. How'd the Rangers do last year, btw? And this year?

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02-03-2011, 12:17 PM
  #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
Desperation in pro sports almost always leads to stupidity, and trading a first rounder for Fisher is stupidity, let alone a top prospect as well. While teams do get desperate, I have a hard time seeing any team in the league right now being desperate enough to make a blunder this big. But then again, Montreal not only took Scott Gomez, but gave up a top prospect for him, too. Never say never.
So a desperate team that needs wins and has tons of prospects anyways....will wait on Mr. late 1st rounder for 2-3 years to either become a player as good as Fisher or better...or just as possible, worse...in expense of losing his job or missing the playoffs....or being more likely to lose in the 1st round.

Fisher's a good play...if he's your 3rd line center....and you stay healthy...you're probably a very deep team.

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02-03-2011, 12:19 PM
  #162
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My guess is that Murray has received a number of calls about Fisher, possibly with some low ball offers. But there's no hurray to make a decision on Fisher and his priority is trading the UFA's in a timely fashion... like before the Trade Deadline so that he can get some value for them. Murray probably has half a dozen guys that are more of a priority to move before the deadline and he can't waste time taking calls about Fisher everyday.

Murray's message is probably just... "I'm busy with other priorities, don't waste my precious time before the Trade Deadline with this crap unless you're going to offer a 1st and a top prospect."

I'm sure the last thing he wants is somebody jerking his chain about Fisher for weeks and then he winds up dealing Phillips and Kovalev at the last minute for 3rd and 5th rounders.

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Old
02-03-2011, 12:20 PM
  #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burnabyjoe10 View Post
Pretty sure Fisher may be one of the most overrated guys in the league. Any GM that would pay that asking price should immediately be fired. I would say at most be could fetch a late second round pick.
Silly. Any GM harmlessly having a high price for a return on one of his contracted players should be fired? GMs get fired for doing the opposite.

Thanks for coming out. There are some posters here that are knowledgeable and have low post counts...but you have lots to learn.

To test you're hockey knowledge....name 20 players in hockey you'd put on your team before Toews (hint: there's a chance it's a trick question)

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02-03-2011, 12:21 PM
  #164
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29 other GM's laugh in Sylvester's face!! WOW! A first AND a top prospect?!

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02-03-2011, 12:23 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by Lazy Geno View Post
29 other GM's laugh in Sylvester's face!! WOW! A first AND a top prospect?!
And then he says....ish thish your 1st day? 4 weeksh til deadline. Chalk to me.

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02-03-2011, 12:24 PM
  #166
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And the response to that asking price from any NHL GM:

"We'll call you."

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02-03-2011, 12:27 PM
  #167
otto bond
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
So a desperate team that needs wins and has tons of prospects anyways....will wait on Mr. late 1st rounder for 2-3 years to either become a player as good as Fisher or better...or just as possible, worse...in expense of losing his job or missing the playoffs....or being more likely to lose in the 1st round.

Fisher's a good play...if he's your 3rd line center....and you stay healthy...you're probably a very deep team.
I would offer a 1st and a prospect from Montreal, has long that that prospect is not Leblanc, Eller and a few others.

Kristo and a 1st for Fisher. I like the grit he brings and I believe that in Montreal, he would be great. I would even add Desharnais.

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02-03-2011, 12:29 PM
  #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CPhoenixM View Post
I still don't see how BOS 2011 1st and Zack Hammill is overpayment for Fisher.

I'll ask again: how many guys going in the first round will get 40 - 50 points a year for their career while logging a ton of minutes, blocked shots, hits, playing on PK and being one of the hardest working players on the team? If Fisher had hockey sense he could be one of the best players in the league.
This is the problem when people try to fully evaluate trade value here on HF...they only discuss it in a vacuum. Trade value has to account for everything, not just stats (as many have point out...which his are not great), but overall play (which is better than his stats), and salary (which is more than he's worth). When you factor in all those things (plus others like intangibles, durability, leadership, team needs and willing trade partners, etc.) then you can paint a picture of a guy's worth.

Fisher is a good player, but at $4.2 million he needs to be more than a decent two-way grinder on your third line if you're going to start offering up a 1st and a high end prospect. It ain't happening.

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Old
02-03-2011, 12:29 PM
  #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
And the response to that asking price from any NHL GM:

"We'll call you."


Winner.

Trades take a while to come to fruition. How many times do you hear a GM say...well we were talking about this one for a while...and then Team A started getting serious and we came to an agreement.

If a team like the Kings remains unquestionable for the playoffs...don't doubt they will make a call to make their current roster better in expense for some of their futures.

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02-03-2011, 12:31 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by The Fuhr View Post
Just said that on TSN... wonder if there are teams willing to pay that
Can't see anybody paying that price. Maybe a 1st OR a top prospect but not both. He'd be a solid addition to a team needing a top 6 center.

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02-03-2011, 12:31 PM
  #171
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Fisher would make a nice piece on a contending team, but not at that price. As a starting point-why not shoot for the moon? My guess is certain teams would offer one of those assets, but not both.

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Old
02-03-2011, 12:32 PM
  #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by otto bond View Post
I would offer a 1st and a prospect from Montreal, has long that that prospect is not Leblanc, Eller and a few others.

Kristo and a 1st for Fisher. I like the grit he brings and I believe that in Montreal, he would be great. I would even add Desharnais.
And I guarantee you we would not pull the trigger on that now...and we probably wouldn't by the deadline. Don't expect Fisher to move, another team will have to force us too.

Don't worry the offer is far from embarrassing...but chances are we'll hold for something a little better (unless we love Kristo for some reason), or we'll just keep him. He's not a rental....we can trade him whenever we want, if we want.

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02-03-2011, 12:32 PM
  #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
If a team like the Kings remains unquestionable for the playoffs...don't doubt they will make a call to make their current roster better in expense for some of their futures.
Kings have a number of players they have to re-sign in the off-season. Having Fisher @ $4.2 million will make that alot more difficult. IMHO, it's more his cap hit/contract that's the problem - not the asking price. Kings need goal scoring wingers. They already are near the top of the league in terms of "goals against".

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02-03-2011, 12:33 PM
  #174
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i can see a team doing 1 or the both, but not both

a 1st round pick and a low-end prospect is probably the best option
if chicago could fit him in (which i dont think they can) i can see a 1st and lalonde going

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02-03-2011, 12:35 PM
  #175
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[QUOTE=CPhoenixM;30631925]I still don't see how BOS 2011 1st and Zack Hammill is overpayment for Fisher.

QUOTE]

Because you should be getting Fisher for LESS. The definition of overpaying is paying more than you should have. If someone is getting Fisher from Ottawa, it's not going to be with a trade that starts with a 1st rounder, lol.

2nd rounder + prospect, you're in the conversation.

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