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02-02-2011, 11:01 PM
  #1
petrocelli
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A question about next year's forwards..

So ive been thinking lately, we stand to land one of these top 3 forwards in the draft, Landeskog, Nugent-Hopkins, or Couturier.... two of those three (RNH the exception) seem NHL ready...

We also have Niederreiter who will be fighting for a spot.....

So everyone seems to think what's missing from the Isles forward corps are good veterans to play with Tavares and Bailey....

So if what we are missing is a vet or two, and we already have Moulson, Comeau, Grabner, Tavares, Bailey, Okposo, Nielsen and possibly a few others (Shremp?? Hunter?? Parentau??)..... can we actually afford to add two rookies to our forward corp next year??

If we landed Landeskog, plus we have Niederreiter, both seem ready to step in next year, but for a team desperate to make a playoff push, could that be counterproductive to having a veteran in one of those two spots???

And let Petrov stay in Russia another year, absolutely no way there is room for a third rookie up front next year... gotta stagger these kids..

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02-02-2011, 11:08 PM
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Bro, the quicker the kids are ready like Nino, Petrov and whoever we draft, the better. Hunter, Parenteau and the other more veteran forwards can hit the skids or get traded sooner then later. This team needs to worry about infusing talent as quickly as quickly as possibly once the kids are ready and to not worry about staggering youngsters. If Petrov is ready and wants to come why should we risk stunting his growth to keep Parenteau or Hunter? The formula we have aint working so you keep building. If its 3 rookies then its 3 rookies in my opinion but the last thing Im worried about is what Im going to do with a 3rd or 4th line forward when I have a kid more talented ready to take their place. Hunter would fetch a mid round pick fairly easily I am sure and I think you can probably say the same for Parenteau.

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02-02-2011, 11:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petrocelli View Post
So ive been thinking lately, we stand to land one of these top 3 forwards in the draft, Landeskog, Nugent-Hopkins, or Couturier.... two of those three (RNH the exception) seem NHL ready...

We also have Niederreiter who will be fighting for a spot.....

So everyone seems to think what's missing from the Isles forward corps are good veterans to play with Tavares and Bailey....

So if what we are missing is a vet or two, and we already have Moulson, Comeau, Grabner, Tavares, Bailey, Okposo, Nielsen and possibly a few others (Shremp?? Hunter?? Parentau??)..... can we actually afford to add two rookies to our forward corp next year??

If we landed Landeskog, plus we have Niederreiter, both seem ready to step in next year, but for a team desperate to make a playoff push, could that be counterproductive to having a veteran in one of those two spots???

And let Petrov stay in Russia another year, absolutely no way there is room for a third rookie up front next year... gotta stagger these kids..
Nino should be here next season. But we REALLY need to make a trade for a proven winger to play with Tavares. We simply cant have him playing with PA Parenteau every night. Tavares' numbers will jump big time with a playmaker on his wing

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02-02-2011, 11:59 PM
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Nino will be on this team next season.

They need to bring in a veteran winger for the 1st line. I don't care what it costs, but Tavares NEEDS it. We can all see how he is performing with his current line, but I feel he could be doing more with a legitimate danger on the ice.

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02-03-2011, 09:29 AM
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well we cant have every rooki make the team.....it wouldnt be fair to the team or the players....remember de Hann will try and make the team also....but i suspect he will play in the A for next year...atleast thats what I hope....as for the fowards if you want a veteran winger for Tavares or Bailey well a trade is the onley way to go....this years FA are not that great if your looking for a dominate playmaker or scorer.....a good veteran would be Laich....but every team is going to want him......

I suspect Nino will be ahead of any foward we draft just because the extra year and he already had some expeirence in the NHL.....thats why Im hoping we draft Larsson so we dont have to be tempted to play all these first year players up front....

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02-03-2011, 09:37 AM
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Chapin Landvogt
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As I see it, there's room for maybe one more top 6 forward.

This will NOT lead to markedly better competitiveness.

Looking to make trades that upgrade the forward ranks while dishing off some forwards in the process would seem the best way to improve for a team like the Isles.


Last edited by Chapin Landvogt: 02-03-2011 at 11:47 AM.
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02-03-2011, 09:56 AM
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For now, I'd try Bailey on a line with Okposo and Grabner, keep the Tavares line in check, and see how it goes. Drop Parentau at the end of the year. Look at a guy like Erik Cole or someone else with some gas in the tank and some playoff experience and overpay as much as it takes. This past year was when you throw Brian Campbell money at a guy, but it didn't happen, so we'll have to figure something out this offseason.

No idea where Neiderreiter would go. I'd be content to give him a year of seasoning in the AHL with the possibility of a callup, same as Hamonic.

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02-03-2011, 10:05 AM
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petrocelli
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Originally Posted by fatmanatee View Post
For now, I'd try Bailey on a line with Okposo and Grabner, keep the Tavares line in check, and see how it goes. Drop Parentau at the end of the year. Look at a guy like Erik Cole or someone else with some gas in the tank and some playoff experience and overpay as much as it takes. This past year was when you throw Brian Campbell money at a guy, but it didn't happen, so we'll have to figure something out this offseason.

No idea where Neiderreiter would go. I'd be content to give him a year of seasoning in the AHL with the possibility of a callup, same as Hamonic.
I don't think Neiderreiter can play in the AHL next year.... I believe the rule is, if a guy has junior eligibility left, he must either play in the NHL or be returned to his junior team, no AHL...

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02-03-2011, 10:09 AM
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i was thinking about that too. it almost seems like theres no room on this team for any new players unless others are shipped out.

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02-03-2011, 10:13 AM
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petrocelli
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I have no problem with both Landeskog and Neiderreiter making the team because Landeskog is built like a man child and mature beyond his years, and Neiderreiter would be a rookie that was given an extra year of juniors and also is mature and has a good build... Neither is a scrawny kid.. nor is either immature.. Same could be said about Couturier.

Moulson Tavares legit FA, player via trade or Landeskog

Grabner Bailey (Couturier?) Okposo

Comeau Neilsen Neiderreiter


Schremp.. goodbye.....Parenteau....goodbye

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02-03-2011, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by petrocelli View Post
I don't think Neiderreiter can play in the AHL next year.... I believe the rule is, if a guy has junior eligibility left, he must either play in the NHL or be returned to his junior team, no AHL...
Yea it's something like that, I think it's eligibility up to the age of 20 or something like that. For some reason I want to say that if Nino is not on the Isles next year he has one more year of eligibility left and can go back to juniors.

Personally I feel this is a stupid rule as players are not all created equal and some are more ready than others. For example I believe Nino would've been better served playing in the AHL this year as is De Haan, not trekking around Canada on a bus with 16 and 17 year olds. Just a ridiculous rule.

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02-03-2011, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Riddick View Post
i was thinking about that too. it almost seems like theres no room on this team for any new players unless others are shipped out.
That's fine. I nominate the following:

Schremp
Parenteau
Comeau
Gervais
Hillen
Reese

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02-03-2011, 10:18 AM
  #13
petrocelli
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i was thinking about that too. it almost seems like theres no room on this team for any new players unless others are shipped out.
It really shouldnt be a problem "shipping out" players from a team that has finished bottom five countless years in a row.... I'll clear out a whole line for you...

Shremp...gone...Parentau...gone.....Gillies...gone

Comeau.... maybe gone, if we have a chance at a significant upgrade..

Matt Martin... AHL next year.... This kid isn't ready.... is he even on the ice??? I never notice him.

Besides Tavares, Moulson, Okposo, Neilsen, Grabner and probably still Bailey.. nobody else is guaranteed a spot.. anyone else can go if there is a chance to upgrade..

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02-03-2011, 10:31 AM
  #14
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gillies will probably still be here, the isles 'need' a heavyweight. its pretty annoying but i think he's here. schremp? i HOPE goodbye, PA? i hve a really bad feeling snow is going to resign him justifying it with how he performed this year..

martin should be back in the AHL, he's not really contributing anything right now and i think he could be a great addition once he starts learning how to score, just think he's being wasted right now.

comeau...probably want him gone as he's MADDINGLY annoying.

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02-03-2011, 11:00 AM
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Moulson-tavares-landsokog
Grabner-neilson-okposo
Neidderiter-bailey-hunter
Ufa (fighter)-konopka-martin (or whoever)

Streit-hamonic
Amac-ufa
De haan-martinek

Poulin
DP ( 1 out of 4 games if poulin is playing well)

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02-03-2011, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptDenisPotvin View Post
Moulson-tavares-landsokog
Grabner-neilson-okposo
Neidderiter-bailey-hunter
Ufa (fighter)-konopka-martin (or whoever)

Streit-hamonic
Amac-ufa
De haan-martinek

Poulin
DP ( 1 out of 4 games if poulin is playing well)
I think Comeau is a competant 4th line player. Jurcina is signed for next year too! He can pair with Amac.

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02-03-2011, 10:37 PM
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Perhaps I'd give Nino another 9-game look, but he still needs to work on his skillset; and another year in the dub won't hurt.

Schremp has not earned another contract.

There's a chance that whomever NYI choose with the 1st overall, err 2nd overall, that they send the player down.

You make room for a veteran forward, that helps the short and long term. If that means some young forwards have to earn their keep, or fight for playing time, I look at this as a great situation.


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02-04-2011, 03:58 AM
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Personally I'd like to see Nino get at least another year in the WHL to really focus on refining his offensive abilities. I do think he's NHL ready, but not ready to play on a scoring line. Right now, I'd rather see another stopgap like PAP, than him. Not that I think he's better than Nino, but because I think that'd be better for Nino's development.

Landeskog is in a similar boat, where he's probably NHL ready, but would be better served developmentally working on his offensive game in juniors (he probably only needs another year, though). Couturier is in a slightly different boat, because I think he's learned about as much in juniors as he's going to, so it'd make more sense for him to make the jump. Still though, neither is the sort of prospect that I'd be super confident about their ability to come out of the and produce right away, so I wouldn't start penciling roster spots in the top 6 for them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptDenisPotvin View Post
Moulson-tavares-landsokog
Grabner-neilson-okposo
Neidderiter-bailey-hunter
Ufa (fighter)-konopka-martin (or whoever)

Streit-hamonic
Amac-ufa
De haan-martinek

Poulin
DP ( 1 out of 4 games if poulin is playing well)
If Kenopka is back, I'd much rather see a guy with highend PK abilities signed for the 4th line. And De Haan I'd prefer to see put in at least some time on the top pairing in Bridgeport before giving limited on the bottom pairing in the NHL. Also, Eaton's signed for another season, and likely will be playing.

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02-04-2011, 07:36 AM
  #19
Chapin Landvogt
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Originally Posted by BelovedIsles View Post
Perhaps I'd give Nino another 9-game look, but he still needs to work on his skillset; and another year in the dub won't hurt.
Actually, another year in the WHL could be unnecessary.

If he doesn't make it out of camp, the team could very well choose to go the Figren route instead: let him play a season against men in Switzerland. That's a pretty good league and would surely be comparable to a year in the AHL.

Quote:
Schremp has not earned another contract.
At this point, he must be thinking in the "I'm on the outside looking in" mindframe.

Quote:
There's a chance that whomever NYI choose with the 1st overall, err 2nd overall, that they send the player down.

You make room for a veteran forward, that helps the short and long term. If that means some young forwards have to earn their keep, or fight for playing time, I look at this as a great situation.
We've currently got enough prospect depth that we don't have to pull a Bailey anymore. We saw that with Niederreiter (thank goodness).

I don't think any kid we pick this summer will be rushed.

Speaking of which, I still would like to see Larsson in an Islanders uniform more than anyone else, BUT again, if this team can land a young productive veteran and remain in the top 10, I can definitely, definitely see this team being interested in a Huberdeau, Strome and Hamilton. Even if they can get a real good young scoring veteran and then get a pick 10-20, don't be surprised in the least if this team likes kids like Bartschi and Jensen.

In that case, there'd be no rush for any just-drafted kid next season.

Draft:
I BELIEVE that Snow can make this draft a very eventful one AND end the weekend with immediate help for next season. I just hope he plays his cards right. No Milburyesque moves (which I don't really fear), but there should be a real good possibility to turn a top 3 pick into a player & another pick in round 1.

I still see Boston, St. Louis and Columbus being teams that would likely be interested in going that route.

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02-04-2011, 07:51 AM
  #20
Chapin Landvogt
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Although this thread is about forwards, I'd like to kindly point out that no less than the following Dmen ARE under contract for next season.

Streit, Eaton, Mottau, Jurcina, Hamonic, MacDonald, Hillen, de Haan.

Several others like Kohn and Wishart are RFAs, while Katic will be in the last season of his ELC.

I have a gut feeling that of their own prospects, the Isles will sign Sims to an ELC or at least get him on a Bridgeport two-way contract, but that's not all that important for the NHL club at the moment...

Now, I'm sure everyone knows that we not only traditionally suffer a boatload of blueline injuries every season, but that the blueline above is STILL in need of one top 3 NHL blueliner with offensive qualities, e.g. a slight upgrade of Martinek.

Furthermore, on another note, I personally think you'll see Gervais and Reese sign with Pittsburgh. Just a hunch, and certainly only on two-way contracts.

Lastly, on other fronts, I believe the team will sign Cizikas and maybe even bring Nilsson over. There's a minimal outside chance that any of Gregoire, Lee or Kessel could be signed early out of college, although I see no rush for this.

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02-04-2011, 09:40 AM
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In my mind the only guaranteed forwards next year would be Moulson-tavares-Grabner-neilson-okposo

Then you have Bailey who if he was to be a key request for a move to bring in a first line forward I would seriously consider cutting the cord. I highly doubt after giving up so much to draft him that Garth will make this move and if he wont I wouldn't be pissed about giving him another year to put it together.

Neidereiter is an interesting decision, physically he seems ready for the jump, mentally he seems to have the tools. My guess is there is a job for him on the Islanders for him to lose, he will have to put in some work in the offseason and come to camp in beast mode to stick past 9 games.

Petrov, well I'm not so sure he will even want to come here, yes I know he says he does but he is being paid well where he is and I'm not sure he would be willing to sign a two way. If he wont he will have to have a big time camp and show he belongs because the last thing we need is a sulking Russian in the system.

Konopka may have made a good case for being brought back, great faceoff man and better team player.

Then there are the guy who I would offer two ways like Gillies, Sim, P.A.

So in summation I think that would leave1 to 2 spots open for upgrade assuming we pick the top Dman in the draft.

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02-04-2011, 09:52 AM
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A lot of us talk about how we rushed Bailey and ruined his development because of it (which i don't 100% agree we ruined him), but how come we're already penciling Nino into next years lineup? Granted he's bigger than JB, but I believe he wont even be 19 by start of next season and we're going to bury him on the 3rd line.

Nino isnt going to get us to the playoffs next season, I don't think he should be playing in the big leagues just yet. Its tough because keeping him in juniors makes it harder for him to move forward, but i believe someone said he's not elibible for the A yet? IMO, no need to rush Nino next year, he's very young and he needs as many minutes as possible and time to develop.

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02-04-2011, 11:00 AM
  #23
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The Islanders would have to actually convince a veteran hockey player to come here. What are those chances? Slim to none.

All I know, you go into next year and you do nothing, you get another top pick. We all know that is going to be hard as hell to swallow.

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02-04-2011, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volek25 View Post
A lot of us talk about how we rushed Bailey and ruined his development because of it (which i don't 100% agree we ruined him), but how come we're already penciling Nino into next years lineup? Granted he's bigger than JB, but I believe he wont even be 19 by start of next season and we're going to bury him on the 3rd line.

Nino isnt going to get us to the playoffs next season, I don't think he should be playing in the big leagues just yet. Its tough because keeping him in juniors makes it harder for him to move forward, but i believe someone said he's not elibible for the A yet? IMO, no need to rush Nino next year, he's very young and he needs as many minutes as possible and time to develop.
Nino and Josh are coming from two different places. Despite being 18 or 19, Nino already has the physique of a fully developed NHL player. The area of his game that is going to need improvement is his skills, not his build. I don't see how he could be improving his skills by continuing to play in juniors for another year. If you want to get better you have to play against a those who are better than you. He'll be able to hold his own physically so I don't see why we don't let him have the shot.

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02-04-2011, 11:38 AM
  #25
Sidney the Kidney
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Nino and Josh are coming from two different places. Despite being 18 or 19, Nino already has the physique of a fully developed NHL player. The area of his game that is going to need improvement is his skills, not his build. I don't see how he could be improving his skills by continuing to play in juniors for another year. If you want to get better you have to play against a those who are better than you. He'll be able to hold his own physically so I don't see why we don't let him have the shot.
I can see where you're coming from, but with regards to the bolded part, it can work both ways.

True, to get better you have to play against those better than you, but it could also have the opposite effect. You're not ready to play at that level, and thus you're in over your head and never improve.

Since a lot of us are gaming nerds, think of it in this way. When you first play NHL11, most players start off in rookie or pro mode to get adjusted to the game. Even if you're a veteran and are pretty good at previous versions, there's an adjustment period with all the new features and stickhandling stuff that you need to learn, and doing so against rookie or pro level opposition allows you to try out all those new stick toggle dekes, because they work against rookie and pro opponents.

Against higher level opposition (all-star, whatever the highest mode is), you'll be overwhelmed because the computer simply doesn't fall for the same tricks. The end result is you simplify your game and don't bother trying to improve your deking, because you're in over your head and stick to what works. The learning curve also tends to take longer, because you're both learning a new control scheme AND trying to keep up with a very tough computer opponent.

I see it as similar -- albeit for different reasons -- when it comes to players transitioning to the NHL. If they are kept up too early, instead of practicing their "super dekes", they just stick to the same one or two moves that work all the time and become a limited player.

Dominating junior could give Nino the kind of confidence he needs to step in and do the same at the NHL level. Playing him in a league his skills aren't ready yet to compete with might end up having the opposite effect.

Confidence is huge in hockey. That's one of the first things that suffers when a player is brought up too soon, and they feel overwhelmed and frustrated that nothing they do seems to work at the NHL level.

So just because Nino might be physically ready to handle NHL competition, doesn't mean his skills are NHL-ready or his confidence in those skills is NHL-ready.

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