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Old
02-03-2011, 07:26 AM
  #1
Marshall
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What's on the table?

Curious as to what assets folks would consider 'on the table' - who/what would you deal to hypothetically improve the team?

Which high-ish draft picks?
Which prominent prospects?
Which minor leaguers?
Which roster players?

The conceit to this is that these assets would be involved in a value-for-value transaction - a fair deal for both sides. No rip-offs or overt dumps.

Ed - Ha, I can't spell. If a mod could fix my spelling mistake in the title, that would be grand. Or Drake will just edumacate me. Thanks, Drake.


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Old
02-03-2011, 08:05 AM
  #2
brs03
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Draft picks?
Probably not the 1st, unless you're getting more than just a rental (assuming there's anyone out there that you want to make fit for more than just one year)

Prospects?
Not MoJo, Kuznetsov, Eakin, or Orlov. None of the big 3 goalies, yet (once Varlamov gets re-signed then I heavily consider trading one of them).

Minor Leaguers?
Any of them, frankly, if the value is there. There's nobody in Hershey today that this team can't live without (possibly excepting Holtby, as mentioned above). McNeill might be useful depth but I don't see him getting a shot here any time soon. Gordon looks like he can become an NHLer but our bottom 6 seems relatively set.

Roster players?
Perreault (since he's on the roster today I'll count him here).
Maybe one of Schultz or Poti (I'm not down on Schultz like some, my reasoning is simply that Poti's value is probably next to nothing right now, and they might need to shop a Dman if they have any interest in keeping Hannan. Also Schultz is a logical guy to move out if they want to integrate any prospect D into the lineup without being even more reliant on too much youth).

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02-03-2011, 08:14 AM
  #3
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Draft Picks? Probably not the 1st because we turn those into gold cornerstones. Unless something more than a rental is coming back, unless it's in a deal for Brad Richards.

Prospects: No chance on Kuzzy, Orlov, Eakin, Mojo, Holtby.
I'd say to keep Galiev and probably Grubbauer too.
Others can be had I suppose.

Minor Leaguers? I'd say that almost any of them are available.
Not sure we'd trade Kooger however for a one/two-month player. But you do have to give to get. So we'll see.

Roster Players?
Perreault
Schultz (IMO)
Poti (IMO)

I think we've got to pick up Phillips.
Perreault+ McNeil or something like that. or Perreault/McNeil+Pick.

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02-03-2011, 08:35 AM
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After his abysmal season in Hershey, I doubt Kooger has any value.

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02-03-2011, 08:45 AM
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It's only his first pro season though. Flash only had 19 Points in 53 games in Portland in his first professional season and he turned out into a good NHLer.Laich only had 26 Points his second season in the minors. It's too early to give up, especially with a player of that skill-set. He'll hopefully turn out into a solid player.

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02-03-2011, 08:47 AM
  #6
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Anyone outside of Ovy, Backstrom, Alzner, Carlson, and Mojo are fair game in my eyes. I wouldn't trade a 1st, Kuznetzov, Orlov, Eakin etc...for a rental mind you, but in a trade for a big name or a big package, I would consider it.

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02-03-2011, 09:21 AM
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Drake1588
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Were I the GM: Unless the Caps showed a pulse, making big moves to go on a run this season seems foolhardy to me. I have no confidence that this team, playing the way it is playing, can win two playoff rounds. If they can, great, but I wouldn't move assets with real value to bolster the lineup unless the team demonstrated that it is serious about the playoffs.

I suspect Leonsis feels differently and that McPhee's marching orders are clear, mind you.

Were it my call, I would aver that this isn't a team saving up for the post-season. This is a rudderless mess. It's time to craft a coaching succession plan, if one is not already in place. Dealing futures for a bunch of rentals would be the last moves on my mind. The team, on paper, is already solid. These guys aren't playing up to their potential.

Call it a vote of no confidence.

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02-03-2011, 09:47 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drake1588 View Post
Were I the GM: Unless the Caps showed a pulse, making big moves to go on a run this season seems foolhardy to me. I have no confidence that this team, playing the way it is playing, can win two playoff rounds. If they can, great, but I wouldn't move assets with real value to bolster the lineup unless the team demonstrated that it is serious about the playoffs.

I suspect Leonsis feels differently and that McPhee's marching orders are clear, mind you.

Were it my call, I would aver that this isn't a team saving up for the post-season. This is a rudderless mess. It's time to craft a coaching succession plan, if one is not already in place. Dealing futures for a bunch of rentals would be the last moves on my mind. The team, on paper, is already solid. These guys aren't playing up to their potential.

Call it a vote of no confidence.
I'd make a Ruth for Fedorov type deal but I wouldn't move anything close to a top prospect, even decent young NHLer, or 1st round pick at this point. If the Caps get on a nice run and really turn things around before the deadline then maybe I would feel differently but at this point I have seen absolutely nothing that even slightly indicates that might happen.

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02-03-2011, 09:58 AM
  #9
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i typed up a fat post went advanced and HF crashed. Back failed, my novel gone. F.

In summary, we need to figure out the plan, the direction. It warrants a thread itself, what do you do today as McPhee. Poor George is probably a basket case and doesnt know himself the plan. Assuming we are doing something, I think we need to move roster players out if we are not going to replace Bruce. A single rental isnt going to fix Ovi.

I'd move Laich MP and Sarge in a change of scenery deal targeting getting grittier players more suited to the playoffs and a defensive system.

Then I would move our first (weak draft class?) and koogar for Fisher in a heartbeat. I think history will show we cannot draft a big burly center yet have needed one for decades. George and his great team should be able to land decent prospects in later rounds, right? Go Russian.


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02-03-2011, 10:14 AM
  #10
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Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
i typed up a fat post went advanced and HF crashed. Back failed, my novel gone. F.

In summary, we need to figure out the plan, the direction. It warrants a thread itself, what do you do today as McPhee. Poor George is probably a basket case and doesnt know himself the plan. Assuming we are doing something, I think we need to move roster players out if we are not going to replace Bruce. A single rental isnt going to fix Ovi.

I'd move Laich MP and Sarge in a change of scenery deal targeting getting grittier players more suited to the playoffs and a defensive system.

Then I would move our first (weak draft class?) and koogar for Fisher in a heartbeat. I think history will show we cannot draft a big burly center yet have needed one for decades. George and his great team should be able to land decent prospects in later rounds, right? Go Russian.
I agree it blows when technology screws you.

So win now is important to you and you also feel that regardless of how Ovechkin and Backstrom have played all season for the most part you think adding a couple guys makes win now very possible and thus worth going for?

I guess I'm in the 'this season isn't salvageable so don't do anything that might have a negative effect on the future' camp. I know you don't like Schultz and feel moving him would be a positive anyway though.

And IMO Fisher is far from a big burly center. Is he small? No but he isn't big either. He's big enough that his size isn't an issue but he isn't pushing anyone around who isn't considered small either for the most part.

--EDIT--

Backstrom and Fisher are both listed on NHL.com at 6'1" and 210 for Backstrom and 208 for Fisher.

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02-03-2011, 10:19 AM
  #11
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Originally Posted by dashtary View Post
It's only his first pro season though. Flash only had 19 Points in 53 games in Portland in his first professional season and he turned out into a good NHLer.Laich only had 26 Points his second season in the minors. It's too early to give up, especially with a player of that skill-set. He'll hopefully turn out into a solid player.
I agree completely, but his value is still very low at the moment, so there's no point in trading him now.

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02-03-2011, 10:22 AM
  #12
Drake1588
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Millhaus View Post
I'd make a Ruth for Fedorov type deal but I wouldn't move anything close to a top prospect, even decent young NHLer, or 1st round pick at this point. If the Caps get on a nice run and really turn things around before the deadline then maybe I would feel differently but at this point I have seen absolutely nothing that even slightly indicates that might happen.
Sure, smaller exchanges of later picks and second-tier prospects (Kugryshev is an excellent example of someone I expect nothing from in future, and would therefore not mind trading at all) make sense. Even moving the team's first rounder, which I would have contemplated in October or November, would seem to be excessive at this time, however. I'm inclined to give up very little, because I think the Caps are going to do very little damage in May.

My take is also that rumors of the Caps' interest in a biggish move have some truth to them. I don't think I'm in lockstep with what the Caps want to do this trade deadline.

It seems like I've spent 36 straight months worrying that the Caps are going to do something stupid, like trade Karl Alzner. I'm still worried.

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02-03-2011, 10:24 AM
  #13
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Originally Posted by dashtary View Post
It's only his first pro season though. Flash only had 19 Points in 53 games in Portland in his first professional season and he turned out into a good NHLer.Laich only had 26 Points his second season in the minors. It's too early to give up, especially with a player of that skill-set. He'll hopefully turn out into a solid player.
Those Portland numbers aren't comparable because Tim Army sucked the offense out of anything he came across. That doesn't apply to Kooger.

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Old
02-03-2011, 10:37 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drake1588 View Post
Sure, smaller exchanges of later picks and second-tier prospects (Kugryshev is an excellent example of someone I expect nothing from in future, and would therefore not mind trading at all) make sense. Even moving the team's first rounder, which I would have contemplated in October or November, would seem to be excessive at this time, however. I'm inclined to give up very little, because I think the Caps are going to do very little damage in May.

My take is also that rumors of the Caps' interest in a biggish move have some truth to them. I don't think I'm in lockstep with what the Caps want to do this trade deadline.

It seems like I've spent 36 straight months worrying that the Caps are going to do something stupid, like trade Karl Alzner. I'm still worried.
I'm along the same line of thinking. This team isn't showing any kind of life that makes me believe they are going to even get out of the first playoff round. I'd prefer to hold on the futures though naturally some of the lesser prospects would be fine. The untouchable would likely be Alzner, Carlson, Knutz, Orlov, Mojo. I'd let Eakin go in a trade. Considering the caps having been doing well with the late 1st rounders really prefer to keep it. Honestly this season just seems like a "get a year under our rookies" belt at this point.

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02-03-2011, 10:39 AM
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I would say it would be best for us to be a seller this deadline. Move parts that just aren't working out. Our window is still a few years away. I would try to trade with teams drafting in the first half of the first round.

Move anyone but 8, 19, and 74. The rest of our guys are all bait.

I also think it is time to look at a coach like Hitchcock. It's time to start having practices where the guys who suck on the PP actually show up and work on it.

We have to face the fact that this isn't the year. We shouldn't look for a bridge to jump off, but we do need to start steering the ship toward next year.

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02-03-2011, 10:42 AM
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I think I'd toss Eakin into the 'Keep' category. I think he's very good, not great, as a prospect. I simply like him more than I like the Caps' chances to do anything in the playoffs.

I guess I'd trade the Caps' third rounder and Kugryshev.

Actually, that's not quite fair. I'd trade some of the older players. I'd trade Perreault and pucksn' and chsb away, for example. I'd give away some of the Bouchard and Finley washouts. The prime talent I just wouldn't be making available, though.

This team may be at its peak in terms of development, in terms of the age of the guys culled in the 2004 draft, but they aren't playing well enough to give away talent just because a team should be good now. The fact that they are not as good as they should be is what should drive McPhee's decision making in a few weeks.

If Washington trades for Vokoun, it's not suddenly going to turn the team's entire fortunes around.

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02-03-2011, 10:47 AM
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in order to know what assets to trade and/or what assets to trade for, i would first have to have a clue as to what might fix the team. i'd say ov's momma knows that best and she's not talking to the media.

the closest guess i would make would be to acquire a big gun at the deadline. best i can tell there are no guns available at the deadline.

with that said then, as of today and without further information, i would be willing to trade only assets that dont have a future in washington, bouchard and mcneill being the best developed for a 2nd line center and hope that semin and green can provide enough offense to win a round of playoffs.

they are not a cup winning team with ovechkin and backstrom combining for less than 50 goals. they cant fix that with a trade.

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02-03-2011, 10:50 AM
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I also think it is time to look at a coach like Hitchcock. It's time to start having practices where the guys who suck on the PP actually show up and work on it..
a coach like hitchcock? got any suggestions? there's a reason hitchcock is not coaching in the nhl anymore.

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02-03-2011, 10:56 AM
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Hitchcock is a ridiculously defensive-minded coach. That would probably be the worst thing that could ever happen for us.

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02-03-2011, 10:56 AM
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...

And IMO Fisher is far from a big burly center. Is he small? No but he isn't big either. He's big enough that his size isn't an issue but he isn't pushing anyone around who isn't considered small either for the most part.

--EDIT--

Backstrom and Fisher are both listed on NHL.com at 6'1" and 210 for Backstrom and 208 for Fisher.
Unfortunately, Backstrom rarely seems to even use his decent frame to shield away defenders these days. Doesn't hit much at all... From what I read up on Fisher in the other thread, he seems to bring a physical game. The day of the big burly Lindros type center seem long gone. Big and Burly may now mean mobile, barely above average size, and hits. Its a skating league now including the centers who have to skate as fast as ever. Its not the bark of the dog, its the bite. or whatever. I bet he will play bigger and burlier than any of our forwards, bigger or smaller. In our entire system. Today.

We just seem to struggle to draft guys of the Fisher ilk nor can we land one.

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02-03-2011, 11:07 AM
  #21
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I don't make a single move. For two reasons. First, I don't see much of a threat to contend here. Second, it gives mcphee a basis on which to make some tough decisions this off-season. Basically, use the rest of the year to see who sinks and who swims. Cull accordingly.

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02-03-2011, 12:11 PM
  #22
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I'm with many of you in the assessment of the remainder of this season and how the Capitals will perform in the playoffs. That assessment is that I'm not optimistic. This is in large part due to not just one or two players having poor seasons but rather quite a few, i.e. Backstrom, Laich and not having a legitimate #2 Center.

So then any moves the Capitals make this season, should not be with the hope of immediately turning the team around but rather improving next season's team. I love MOJO, but time in Hershey would have really helped his development, but I realize that it was NHL or Sweden for him so that was not in the cards. I still see MOJO a season or two away from being a #2 Center, so in the mean time the Capitals need to look for a true #2 Center that will be with the team in 2011/12 and 2012/13 season as I see MOJO being our #3 Center during that same time until he's ready to move up to the second line.

The assets that I'd put on the table and in no certain order are as follows:
Current NHL Roster - everyone except Ovechkin, Backstrom, Semin, MOJO, Green, Carlson, Alzner, Hannan, Varly and Neuvy.
Prospects - everyone except Holtby, Kuznetsov, Orlov and Eakin
Draft Choices - all 2011 draft choices (besides everything I've read suggests this is not a deep draft)
GMGM - needs to decide the type of player needed to support the likes of the players that are listed as the untouchables, in other words they need another goal crasher to replace Knuble (he'll be 39 come July 4th), need a 2nd line Center, need big/physical/grittier players who have playoff experience and success

Finally they need a new coach. I like BB but the team needs a new direction.

This doesn't all have to happen before the trade deadline, but right now I would say the team should consider leaning more towards selling.


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Old
02-03-2011, 12:18 PM
  #23
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Off the table, for me:
Big club-
Ovechkin, Backstrom, Carlzner, Green, Johansson

Prospects-
Kuznetsov, Orlov

Assets I'd rather keep, but would move for someone with some term-
Eakin, 1st

I still think this team is just health and Ovechkin/Backstrom waking the **** up away from being really good. Some deft deadline deals could round out the squad nicely for a run if those things happen.

If they don't, ride it out and change the make up of the team in the offseason.

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02-03-2011, 12:28 PM
  #24
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
Off the table, for me:
Big club-
Ovechkin, Backstrom, Carlzner, Green, Johansson

Prospects-
Kuznetsov, Orlov

Assets I'd rather keep, but would move for someone with some term-
Eakin, 1st

I still think this team is just health and Ovechkin/Backstrom waking the **** up away from being really good. Some deft deadline deals could round out the squad nicely for a run if those things happen.

If they don't, ride it out and change the make up of the team in the offseason.
and so here you have the real quandry. on one hand we have almost any roster player and prospect asset on the table to deal to improve the team. on the other hand we have the return to nominal performance of the team's two lead players that is all stands between abject failure and being cup contenders.

trading from the roster a quicker way to mess a good team up than it is to fix it as a rule. trade a couple of core players out like Laich and Schultz(say) and you may have messed up the team beyond the ability of Oveckin's game return to fix it.
meanwhile, even making really good trades wont fix the team without Ov and Backstrom returning to form.

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02-03-2011, 12:35 PM
  #25
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Times when you make a trade? The Tampa Bay Lightning were scoring well, benefiting from a young superstar at the top of his game, strong transition game, good offensive depth, but losing games earlier this year because of a thin defense and sub-par goaltending. They go out and trade for a good veteran goaltender who had been playing well this year.

Teams that are otherwise playing well, but have a single clear weakness in terms of personnel, can make a trade that pays enormous dividends.

For teams that are floundering, you need to identify and then address why they are floundering. The Caps largely have the personnel they need to be a top team. It's just not coming together. Sure, injuries have played a part in that. Yet is there anyone who doesn't suspect there is more under the surface?

Something is just wrong with this team, whatever that root cause happens to be, and adding a Vokoun or a Smid or a Beauchemin or a center probably isn't going to change that issue.

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