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Wingers, deadline, insanity Feb. 28th|part3

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Old
02-04-2011, 06:41 AM
  #26
ss53mech
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Originally Posted by ProdigalOne View Post
I think people need to realize that the difference between a 20 goal winger and a 30 goal winger post deadline and playoffs has an extremely tiny impact on our cup chances. So small Shero knows it wont make a difference. Crosby and defense will win the cup for us this year if we do, assuming Malkin continues to be closer to Yashin than Crosby. (and yes its on Malkin at this point, nobody else around him)
Disagree. I can understand your point but I would say there is more to it than just the 4ish extra goals during the regular season. It's about addressing an area of weakness to balance the team. Right now we have seen the danger of what happens when Sid or Geno get shut down. We do have this current good feeling because we are winning some games without them but we aren't dominating anyone. So the real reason for the upgrade at wing is not so much that particular person's production so much as it is the respect they would get from the defensmen. We know that Sid or Geno are really dangerous when given a little space, right now they aren't getting a whole lot. When Sid is in beast mode, it doesn't seem to matter he just makes it happen regardless. He's been producing regulary with his current linemates so that means helping the best player in the game right now isn't a priority. Geno on the other hand seems to be having issues. I agree that this is on him. But I also feel that adding some help to his line in some form would help immensly. I mean, we can stand here and say Malkin needs to play better, or we can try to put him in a situation that is conducive to him playing better. Whether that help come in the form of a crashing body who creates space by driving the net, or a sniper/finisher type who geno can set up from down low, or even a playmaking type who is good at finding soft spots in the offensive zone and can be passed to when Malkin is under pressure. It is not 100% about offensive help, a lot of the basis of the addition in question is to balance his line a little and not make it a line of Geno and two skating statues.

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02-04-2011, 06:48 AM
  #27
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Backes, Brown, Perry or Ryan? Suuuure only problem now is how do we choose which one?
While were at it I like Evander Kane and Jeff Skinner too.

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02-04-2011, 07:34 AM
  #28
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Is jeffrey capable of playing wing at the nhl level? I hear hes soff on the board play. I say we just give the ahlers spots in the lineup and just wait til summer.
Thats a good question. He has good hands, a good two way game and is really smart but he still has a little bit of a funny stride. When he has to stop and start more will he be able to adjust? I really hope so because he has some Hetch in his game.

In a perfect world both Jeffrey and Letestu would work out at wing. With both having great sense you would think they could pull it off. Jags made a great comparison of Letestu and Boyes at the start of the season thats always stuck with me. Same body type, same release and both have that "greasy game".

Just getting back to my post on the other thread. I just don't feel that "anyone" is an upgrade. Meaning I would rather leave well enough alone. A guy like Dupes works with Sid and I would rather have him as opposed to a player with more skill that will take a headman pass from Sid and just shoot. the pens need the right skilled winger not a skilled wing.

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02-04-2011, 07:36 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by UnderratedBrooks44 View Post
Or put Jeffrey or Letestu in Staal's place and trade Staa-........nevermind. They were #1 in PK and GAA while he missed half a season but I forgot, he's irreplaceable because I just don't understand how valuable he is. Some day I'll get that.
When you do realize how he is irreplaceable can you please let know? I am very curious myself......

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02-04-2011, 07:46 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by ss53mech View Post
Geno on the other hand seems to be having issues. I agree that this is on him. But I also feel that adding some help to his line in some form would help immensly. I mean, we can stand here and say Malkin needs to play better, or we can try to put him in a situation that is conducive to him playing better. Whether that help come in the form of a crashing body who creates space by driving the net, or a sniper/finisher type who geno can set up from down low, or even a playmaking type who is good at finding soft spots in the offensive zone and can be passed to when Malkin is under pressure. It is not 100% about offensive help, a lot of the basis of the addition in question is to balance his line a little and not make it a line of Geno and two skating statues.
This is why I don't understand people getting on Malkin so much. When it comes down to playing other really good teams in the playoffs even the best players need some help. During the 1st cup run he had 2 decent linemates. Even in the 2nd cup run Fedotenko gave him some support and scored some big goals while Talbot was strong on the forecheck and got the puck for Malkin.

Whether Malkin's knee is still hurt or not getting him at least one half decent winger has to be a priority and should result in much more production.

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02-04-2011, 09:07 AM
  #31
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I am Back from the bathroom, what did I miss?

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02-04-2011, 09:08 AM
  #32
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Sorry if this has been discussed already (and I'm sure it probably has been), but with Crosby going on retroactive LTIR, what are we looking at in terms of gained cap space?

I remember reading somewhere (perhaps here), that every day Crosby sits on LTIR is worth like 30k in cap space. IF that's true, and IF we assume that LTIR takes effect as of when Crosby last played, that'd be like an additional ~700k (as of right now) would it not, which would translate into a considerably better forward at the deadline?

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02-04-2011, 09:11 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Sypher04 View Post
Sorry if this has been discussed already (and I'm sure it probably has been), but with Crosby going on retroactive LTIR, what are we looking at in terms of gained cap space?

I remember reading somewhere (perhaps here), that every day Crosby sits on LTIR is worth like 30k in cap space. IF that's true, and IF we assume that LTIR takes effect as of when Crosby last played, that'd be like an additional ~700k (as of right now) would it not, which would translate into a considerably better forward at the deadline?
Short answer no.

Long answer only if Crosby is out for the rest of the regular season. LTIR cap space does not bank in the way normal cap space does. It disappears as soon as the player is healthy.

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02-04-2011, 09:18 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Sideline View Post
Short answer no.

Long answer only if Crosby is out for the rest of the regular season. LTIR cap space does not bank in the way normal cap space does. It disappears as soon as the player is healthy.
What's the point of having it at all then? Aside from opening up a roster spot.

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02-04-2011, 09:21 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Sypher04 View Post
What's the point of having it at all then? Aside from opening up a roster spot.

For example. Crosby breaks both legs in training camp and i out for the season. We could now technically get a player oder players worth 8.7 M to replace him while he's out.

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02-04-2011, 09:34 AM
  #36
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For example. Crosby breaks both legs in training camp and i out for the season. We could now technically get a player oder players worth 8.7 M to replace him while he's out.
Ah so long term is only used on replacement players. Gotcha.

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02-04-2011, 09:34 AM
  #37
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Right now Minnesota is making a good push so getting Brunette seems less likely. I am not enamored with the guy but maybe Chris Higgins is a possibility. He's shown some good offensive acumen in the past and the assets we'd likely have to part with would be relatively minimal.

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02-04-2011, 09:58 AM
  #38
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SS53:

Q: do you know what the best thing about paragraphs is?











A: there are spaces between them. Your post makes my head hurt.
(Also, Booth is a concussion case waiting to happen - no thanks... Tallon would probably ask too much anyway.)

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02-04-2011, 10:02 AM
  #39
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Please not Higgins again.

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Old
02-04-2011, 10:03 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by ss53mech View Post
Stayed away for a little bit and glad I did. Not sure what's going on with you Aud Won. Normally I can at least understand if not agree with the stuff you put up. But wow, you seem to have gotten stuck on a one track argument.

So let me see if I got the basics of the thread so far.

Most agree (not all) that the primary need is a winger and specifically for Geno. Most also agree we would prefer (but won't limit our options to) a Malone or Sykora type player. Pretty much looking for a guy who can create space with his body or can finish with the space Geno creates. Not that shero would look past a deal that doesn't include one of these types but only that these are the targeted type players.

On to the candidates.

Setoguchi (my guy)- not a probability due to SJ being in 5th last time I checked and he is finally starting to play a little better. If you ask me he checks all the right boxes. He can skate, backcheck, decent hands/finishing, young and improving, great cap hit. This would still be the guy I would go after if they are selling but in all likelyhood this one isn't gonna happen.
Bergfors(aud won)- also not a probability due to his teams standing but they are spiraling as of late so they might be sellers come the deadline. He also makes sense based on their need for some pk help and our need for some finishing help. However it's ALL going to be based around how much Atlanta values him. If he has the talent/ceiling that we are all hoping for then it makes no sense for an up and coming team like Atlanta to trade him, conversly if they feel he just doesn't have it and are willing to part with him then we have to hope that he proves them wrong.
Hemsky (many)- The folks supporting acquiring him bring valid points to the discussion but I will forever be hesitant to pick up anyone with as many question marks surrounding him. Too streaky, too fragile, too on again off again for his cap hit for me to see him as a good fit for this team. I understand those that don't agree with me and that's fine I won't try to convince you he wouldn't help. I know he would. I just wouldn't make this trade a priority because I don't know how much/ how often/ how consitently that help would appear.
Penner (me again)- If I was going to trade with EDM this is the guy I would be going after (or one of their you generational talent wingers if Steve Tambelini lost his mind). He is a great finisher, big body, skates darn well, and is responsible defensively. He hits all the wickets for a long term solution. Down side is he can be a little on again off again, and his is NOT a devoted backchecker 100% of the time, and he's got a pretty big contract. I could see EDM keeping him around but if they don't I could see him being the Malone replacement for Geno.
Booth (me again)- not a good chance but this one completely depends on Dale Tallon, if he is deemed part of the core to rebuild around, no chance the guy is moving. However if he doesn't fit Tallon's plans for the team this is an almost perfect fit on this team. Some have questioned his durability, I don't, he has good hands, feet, and eyes. uses them all pretty well. has shown to be more than decent in every zone and in every situation. Well rounded you might say. However like I said I don't think he's moving.
Frolik (not sure)- He has skill....but. I don't like his style to much. It always seems like he is on his own page when he is playing. He doesn't seem to use his linemates very well and doesn't seem to backcheck all that well. My biggest conern would be his ability to mesh with this team and it's players. Good points have been brought up about his contract and talent level but I don't think his "basic" hockey sense is very good and this team functions very much off of keeping it simple.
Brunette (many)- Not trying to hate here, but am I the only one who thinks it is time to move past the "has been and maybe could be again" theme we have going at the deadline. Don't get me wrong, Brunette is a "good" player but I just don't see the skill and speed it would take to "mesh" with our system or be much of an upgrade over who we already have. Also, the Wild absolutely love this guy. It would take a pretty gross overpayment from the Pens to get a deal done for him and he's not a guy I'd be willing to overpay for.
Brown (not sure)- This may be the least likely of all the proposals I have seen. If (and that is a big if) LA for some unknown reason decided that Brown was no longer in their plans I'd be prepared to move anything not considered core players to acquire him. Love his game, and he has a great cap hit. Young, hit's like a truck, can finish consistently, sees the ice well, plays well away from the puck. I mean, what's not to love. Back to reality, it's not happening.
Ryan (not sure)- see brown above, same story, little higher cap hit.
Perry- see above
Boyes (not sure)- not even going into detail on this one. No thank you on almost all accounts.
PA Parenteau (not sure)- Good arguments made by both sides, but I would take a pass. I just don't see him as an upgrade really. Yeah, I like his effort, but we have that for days on this team. Any move we make should be about addressing a need not reinforcing a strenght (unless it's just too good to pass up).

I'm sure I missed a few, but I just wanted to kind of summarize out loud what we pretty much determined so far. Anybody got anything else worth discussion?
Setoguchi- probably not available
Bergfors - probably not available
Hemsky - salary cap
Penner - salary cap
Booth- salary cap/probably not available
Frolik- probably not available
Brunette - probably not available
Brown - salary cap/definitely not available
Ryan - salary cap/probably not available
Perry - salary cap/definitely not available
Boyes- No thanks
Parenteau- Available/cheap
Backes- salary cap/not available

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Old
02-04-2011, 10:05 AM
  #41
Milliardo
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Originally Posted by spectraljulian View Post
Setoguchi- probably not available
Bergfors - probably not available
Hemsky - salary cap
Penner - salary cap
Booth- salary cap/probably not available
Frolik- probably not available
Brunette - probably not available
Brown - salary cap/definitely not available
Ryan - salary cap/probably not available
Perry - salary cap/definitely not available
Boyes- No thanks
Parenteau- Available/cheap
Backes- salary cap/not available
This is pretty much it as of right now. I like Parenteau, there really is not much that speaks against him unless Snow is totally in love with him. Maybe once some teams have fallen out of contention 1 or 2 guys from that list become available.

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02-04-2011, 10:10 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Sypher04 View Post
What's the point of having it at all then? Aside from opening up a roster spot.
It's to prevent teams from going over the salary cap when they call up players from the farm to replace injured players.


The daily salary cap is about 319k. Penguins are spending 325k each day Tangradi and Jeffrey are up. So every day they're 6k over the cap.

Comrie's LTIR can cover up to 2.7k a day.

If Crosby wasn't on LTIR, the Penguins would have to send Tangradi down.

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02-04-2011, 10:18 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Milliardo View Post
Please not Higgins again.
Well, he's not my top choice either but it's not as if we have a lot of options and some of the other viable wingers are on teams in the playoff mix.

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02-04-2011, 10:19 AM
  #44
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Well, he's not my top choice either but it's not as if we have a lot of options and some of the other viable wingers are on teams in the playoff mix.

True, but I'd rather do nothing and keep all our players that getting a washed up bum.

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02-04-2011, 10:21 AM
  #45
Mo Wanchuk
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Can someone tell me if Crosby's LTIR is retroactive to the first game he missed, and if so does that have cap implications?

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02-04-2011, 10:21 AM
  #46
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Things are looking bleak for the deadline unless Shero pulls a rabbit out of his hat. Not really into Higgins, but that may be the only realistic move at this point.

I'd be kicking the tires on Voracek if he's really available. His 1,270,833 cap hit is one we could squeeze in. I'm guessing Columbus wants Gogo and that's something the Pens probably aren't interested in. I'm not crazy about trading Despres, but I guess you have to give to get, so I'd gauge their interest in him. I'd also be willing to part with our 1st and a prospect like Bortuzzo, Strait or Jeffrey, but I'd imagine Columbus wants more.

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02-04-2011, 10:23 AM
  #47
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Would mind a guy like Nick Foligno from Ottawa, but I doubt he's available.

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02-04-2011, 10:23 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Mo Wanchuk View Post
Can someone tell me if Crosby's LTIR is retroactive to the first game he missed, and if so does that have cap implications?
It's retroactive, but that doens't really change a thing. As long as he is out, we can go over the cap. We don't save any cap space though.

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02-04-2011, 10:24 AM
  #49
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Things are looking bleak for the deadline unless Shero pulls a rabbit out of his hat. Not really into Higgins, but that may be the only realistic move at this point.

I'd be kicking the tires on Voracek if he's really available. His 1,270,833 cap hit is one we could squeeze in. I'm guessing Columbus wants Gogo and that's something the Pens probably aren't interested in. I'm not crazy about trading Despres, but I guess you have to give to get, so I'd gauge their interest in him. I'd also be willing to part with our 1st and a prospect like Bortuzzo, Strait or Jeffrey, but I'd imagine Columbus wants more.

Yes, we can't afford to lose Gogo and it makes absolutely no sense for Columbus to trade Voracek for Despres or whatever prospect we have.

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02-04-2011, 10:26 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Milliardo View Post
True, but I'd rather do nothing and keep all our players that getting a washed up bum.
I don't think we'd have to give up more than a depth player and maybe a 3rd or 4th rounder in 2012. The team would very much remain in tact. Although there certainly are other players I'd prefer.

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