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Old
02-08-2011, 05:45 PM
  #126
AJRanger
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I'd still like to see us take a flyer on Babchuk, guy's got an (accurate) canon.

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Old
02-08-2011, 05:59 PM
  #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vladmyir111 View Post
Aside from generally how hard it is to get a good shot from the point in the NHL... I think this teams overall game focuses on cycling and then slipping it out front for a rebound or tap in attempt. Seems they can't just all of a sudden play a whole different style once on the powerplay. Coaching fault at this point IMO.
I blame them to some degree.

Gaborik and others need to get involved and stop trying to be Oveckin on every PP. This is a grinding team, use what gives you the best degree of success and get involved shoulder to shoulder down low and give guys like Dubi, Boyle, Zuc and the point men space to get on a rebound and create a chance. Use the little guys to pick off of the bigger guys who should be used as positioned decoys. Having the ability to read what teams PK and goalie are doing is way more important than relying on one shot.

This is really simple stuff that a team like this should be banking on, instead players are trying behind the back passes and acting like they belong with Gaboriks of the world than just going out and playing what makes their game successful. Play your role but adapt it to the power play.

In his first game back Vinny Prospal scored like this, he gets it.

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Old
02-08-2011, 06:25 PM
  #128
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Bring Vtank up and let him rip some shots. If you watched Ray Borque you'd know that a floating wrister that gets tipped 10 times could be just as deadly as a Chara cannon. The key is the ability to use both, to confuse the defense, and to use them both. Mix them up with changeups, fastballs and slap-pass for the occasional curve....right now none of that is going on.

I blame Chris Drury, he knows baseball and as Captain, he should be explaining this to our young defense!

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Old
02-08-2011, 06:30 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
Here's a brainstorm...

To NYR
Joni Pitkanen

To CAR
Ethan Werek
Conditional 2nd (turns into a 1st with an ECF trip)

Pitkanen is a legitimate puck moving defenseman, who basically is a lock to put up ~40 points across a full season. He's still relatively young @ 27, and he's a UFA at the end of the year. If the Canes are out of it at the deadline, which they likely will not be, I could see Pitkanen being moved for a return like this.

Of course, I would only do this deal if Richards became out of reach for us, because he should be priority numero uno. Otherwise, a puckmoving defenseman would be our second biggest need. I know everyone likes Werek, but we have plenty of players like him, he's redundant. Gotta give to get.

Thoughts?
No way, nothing of value for a rental. Rangers aren't winning the cup, there's no point in giving this up to make the playoffs, that's thinking of old and lead to missed playoffs for 7 years.

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Old
02-08-2011, 06:31 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
I am sure all our D's from can blast the puck from the blueline.

The trick is not to get velocity behind the shot, something many fails to understand. Either the "PP", or whatever, needs to open up the point man with a lane to the net, or the D needs to be able to open up a lane for himself.

Rozsival had a very good shot, still I wonder if his shot from the blueline created more goals for then against...

There are two forwards on the other team designed to take away each attacking D. Sometimes it sounds like all they need to do is fire away. Its like asking why the forwards just can not roof the puck. How hard can it be? Just shoot it a inch under the bar!
Good post, Ola. I tend to think the PP Quarterback needs to be just that, a Quarterback. IMO it's much more important to be able to run the offense effectively by making smart reads, passes and movement with or without the puck than it is just to have a cannon of a shot. That, in itself, is much harder for a player to do. Add on top of that the shot-blocking and speed on the PK these days, in addition to the fact your PP doesn't improve by simply having a guy with a shot standing and waiting for a feed, and I see it as an overrated capability. Granted, if you have a point man who can run the unit, then a trong shot is very much so an asset. But on it's own, I just don't see it.

Since I used the term QB, I think its akin to someone having a rocket arm (think JaMarcus Russel). If they don't know what they're doing, the skill on its own is useless.

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Old
02-08-2011, 06:45 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by vipernsx View Post
No way, nothing of value for a rental. Rangers aren't winning the cup, there's no point in giving this up to make the playoffs, that's thinking of old and lead to missed playoffs for 7 years.
If this trade went down, it wouldn't be for him to be a rental. It would be to have exclusive negotiating rights with him, as well as getting him for the final stretch of the season. The trade is contingent on the Richards situation.

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Old
02-08-2011, 07:00 PM
  #132
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This horse is only called dead and battered by those who do not want to hear that Fowler is playing well at a very young age.
McIlrath hasn't even played a game at the pro level yet and we're seeing Fowler's name.

That's a bit much, especially with the supposed reasoning as to why Fowler fell as much as he did.

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How about we give Aaron Rodgers a try?
Epic post.

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Old
02-08-2011, 07:13 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
We have been working the puck down low on the PP much more often over the past dozen games. Shots from the point have been virtually nonexistant.

I for one am glad I don't have to try to figure out how to fix this power play.
Weird eh ? What caught me off guard was when somebody mentioned that there were 7 ? teams that were worse than us on the PP . What is even more unbelievable is Ovie's lack of goals on Caps PP this season . OTOH...the Hab's have done quite well over the last 4 years while changing pivotal parts every season as in Streit , Souray Kovalev , Koivu & others . Is it coaching or making sure one has the integral parts to make a PP work ?

Ric Jackman had a really great point shot...and he was traded 3-4 times to obtain it... but unfortunately he did not last long in the NHL because he could not do the other stuff . That goes to show that one dimensional guys don't have very long careers...in North America !

Win the face off is the 1st step...puck control . The 2nd step in my opinion is to have crease presence . After those 2 things get taken care of you can get away with having no cannons from the point and survive nicely with some well placed rifles firing on the net !

Boyle is big...I like him...but he does have a lot of nights where he looks scared when he should be the opposite which does not make him Holmstrom like in the crease . I don't know who we have that could play that role...who would you guys feel comfortable with in the crease creating havoc and causing deflections ?

It's hard to comment on the face off guy...because we lack that and our #'s prove it and then we spend half the time retrieving the puck from our own end on most PP's . It's a frustrating topic .

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Old
02-08-2011, 07:21 PM
  #134
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Eric Brewer?..........alot of Dmen bring back a 2nd at the deadline

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Old
02-08-2011, 07:24 PM
  #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vipernsx View Post
Bring Vtank up and let him rip some shots.
You're not the only one to suggest this...

I love Vtank for his +14 rating, but do you seriously think he can contribute to the Ranger PP after scoring just 1 goal & 6 assists playing full time for the Whale? Is he suddenly going to become an offensive wizard after a grand total of 2 career goals in Russia & the AHL?

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02-08-2011, 07:29 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by AJRanger View Post
I'd still like to see us take a flyer on Babchuk, guy's got an (accurate) canon.
Yeah with his 6 goals and 22 points this year. Terrifying

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Old
02-08-2011, 07:33 PM
  #137
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It wasn't expected that Fowler would fall so much--so it's easy to say I wanted him all along. By rights he shouldn't have been around when the Rangers picked--but he was. So?--So what. One can wonder why he dropped and there are elements missing from his game is one reason why--such as any kind of physical presence and if those elements are important to a team then why would they pick him? Some people as well haven't taken a close look at Anaheim's defensive depth--there isn't a lot there. Deciding on McIlrath wasn't all about who was going to put up the biggest point totals--that would seem obvious. And the Rangers have some very young d-men--a core to build around--so maybe they look at McIlrath as fitting into that core and adding an element that it doesn't have--namely a mean, physical element. So at least it's understandable to me--and I don't see a good reason to pan the pick until we know for sure whether or not McIlrath can live up to the expectations the Rangers have for him. As far as Fowler--he may turn into a really good player but unless he can turn the physical play up a couple notches--the best he's going to be is a glorified Tom Poti--and Poti was never a player I like a lot.

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Old
02-08-2011, 08:00 PM
  #138
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Trying to avoid the dead horse but , Leetch , Neidermeyerm,'Coffey , Housley , Streit etc etc were never uber physical players . Fowler will get stronger and already is an elite skater as far as stride and lateral movement . No knock on MDZ but his lateral movement or walking the blue line looks pretty spastic compared to the way Nedermeir , Leetch etc ( of course they are hall of famers I realize) How many stay at home(mcilbelak)
D men can we have ? I like our young look and am not q MDZ hater but going on smooth skating and and pure offensive talent I see Fowler making the jump based on his skating and hopefully MDZ not becoming the next Steve Eminger / Mike Mottau , journeyman PPQB .

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Old
02-08-2011, 08:03 PM
  #139
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Apparently the Rangers are going after Kaberle according to LeBrun. I do not want him as a rental, I also do not want him if it prevents the Rangers from getting Richards, which it most likely will.

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02-08-2011, 08:07 PM
  #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
Yeah with his 6 goals and 22 points this year. Terrifying
3 of which came on the powerplay, where he plays the point....

6/22/28 for a D Man is good to begin with, 3 goals on the PP is good as well. It's not about scoring goals from the point, but shooting hard enough to get a deflection off the pads sometimes, so whoever is by the net could shoot it back in.

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Old
02-08-2011, 08:11 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by DatsyukSOGoal View Post
Apparently the Rangers are going after Kaberle according to LeBrun. I do not want him as a rental, I also do not want him if it prevents the Rangers from getting Richards, which it most likely will.
he's a UFA so it wont

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Old
02-08-2011, 08:17 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by Vitto79 View Post
he's a UFA so it wont
I mean that I see no purpose of trading him as a rental. I'd only trade for him if he signed an extension, but that would also prevent the Rangers from landing Richards.

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Old
02-08-2011, 08:21 PM
  #143
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i wouldnt mind Kabs here

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02-08-2011, 08:21 PM
  #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorado View Post
Trying to avoid the dead horse but , Leetch , Neidermeyerm,'Coffey , Housley , Streit etc etc were never uber physical players . Fowler will get stronger and already is an elite skater as far as stride and lateral movement . No knock on MDZ but his lateral movement or walking the blue line looks pretty spastic compared to the way Nedermeir , Leetch etc ( of course they are hall of famers I realize) How many stay at home(mcilbelak)
D men can we have ? I like our young look and am not q MDZ hater but going on smooth skating and and pure offensive talent I see Fowler making the jump based on his skating and hopefully MDZ not becoming the next Steve Eminger / Mike Mottau , journeyman PPQB .
..........one of these is not like the other.

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Old
02-08-2011, 08:51 PM
  #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DatsyukSOGoal View Post
3 of which came on the powerplay, where he plays the point....

6/22/28 for a D Man is good to begin with, 3 goals on the PP is good as well. It's not about scoring goals from the point, but shooting hard enough to get a deflection off the pads sometimes, so whoever is by the net could shoot it back in.
He's not 6/22/28, he's 6/16/22. These are Staal and Girardi caliber numbers. They're not exactly lighting our PP on fire, and Babchuk is no improvement on them according to the numbers.

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Old
02-09-2011, 01:05 AM
  #146
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Fyi

http://www.nhlnumbers.com/free_agent...der=&year=2012

Andrei Markov (if healthy) and Kaberle look like your best bets but they will probably come at a pretty heavy price. And we want to be careful what we are throwing at defensemen because Staal will be looking for at least that much if/when he becomes a UFA. Wisniewski might be a nice, cheaper option sort of like how Mark Streit was a few years ago. Pitkanen represents a good plan B.

Player AgeCurrent Cap hit
Jovanovski, Ed35$6.5M
Lidstrom, Nicklas41$6.2M
McCabe, Bryan36$5.75M
Markov, Andrei32$5.75M
Hamrlik, Roman37$5.5M
Hannan, Scott32$4.5M
Brewer, Eric32$4.25M
Kaberle, Tomas33$4.25M
Pitkanen, Joni27$4.0M
Bieksa, Kevin30$3.75M
Rivet, Craig36$3.5M
Salo, Sami36$3.5M
Phillips, Chris33$3.5M
Wisniewski, James27$3.25M
Ehrhoff, Christian29$3.1M
White, Ian27$ 3.0M
Staios, Steve37$2.7M
Wallin, Niclas36$2.5M
Sopel, Brent34$2.333M
Vandermeer, Jim31$2.3M
Gill, Hal36$2.25M
Hejda, Jan33$2.0M

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Old
02-09-2011, 01:18 AM
  #147
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If we were to go after a D-man for "longer term" i'd want Wisniewski. He's a good PP guy, capable d-man and cheaper hit.

I don't want to go after a d-man though.

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Old
02-09-2011, 02:41 AM
  #148
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Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
..........one of these is not like the other.
I think we need a playmaking center too, one like Lemiuxe, Gretzky, Oates or Trent Hunter.










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Old
02-09-2011, 02:48 AM
  #149
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Id love Kaberle.

I am sorry, but we just need him. Our current blueline is obviously showing that they will not get it done without guidence. I love them. But they are not stepping up offensively, and I also think they could step up some physically (not in terms of taking the body, which they do a great job at -- but landing the "big hit". You need to make the players on the other team keep their heads up. Its not about making a big hit every other shift, but at least once per game.) but thats another issue. We have a bunch of strong, non-stiffs, studs on the blueline. They should be able to take a pass at the blueline, move a feet or two sideways to get a lane -- and bomb away. But it almost seem like we don't have a tradition in NY to do it. Nobody is leading the way.

Like we have seen with MDZ, if you hang a kid out, it can hurt him. Ottawa was in the same situation with Erik Karlsson -- and they overpaid tremendously for Gonchar. Now they want to get rid of Gonchar at any cost, but Karlsson looks great after getting eased in for just half a season...

This team needs a 3-4 year offensive solution on the blueline. MDZ should not be expected to takeover untill he is at least 23-24 y/o. Its like handing over Gabby and co's job all to Stepan.

Kaberle is just that. And he must be signed longterm too.

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Old
02-09-2011, 02:54 AM
  #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
Here's a brainstorm...

To NYR
Joni Pitkanen

To CAR
Ethan Werek
Conditional 2nd (turns into a 1st with an ECF trip)

Pitkanen is a legitimate puck moving defenseman, who basically is a lock to put up ~40 points across a full season. He's still relatively young @ 27, and he's a UFA at the end of the year. If the Canes are out of it at the deadline, which they likely will not be, I could see Pitkanen being moved for a return like this.

Of course, I would only do this deal if Richards became out of reach for us, because he should be priority numero uno. Otherwise, a puckmoving defenseman would be our second biggest need. I know everyone likes Werek, but we have plenty of players like him, he's redundant. Gotta give to get.

Thoughts?

The Canes will probably be fighting to make the playoffs. I don't see them dealing Pitkanen, unless they fall out of it - especially to a team they will be battling with down the stretch..

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