Torts hockey we are. Enough said. Take it or leave it. I'd take it, but not without grimace.
As such we are okay. Don't need elite talent that bad in plumbers dominated system.
You guys have a lot of what if and but's. It simply isn't that easy--and the facts don't back you up.
The Rangers are 7-7-2 dating back to January 1st. Four of those wins needed extra time to become wins. They've won three regulation games out of the last 16. Also, dating back to January 1st, they've scored 32 goals--an average of exactly 2 gpg. Not nearly enough to be a playoff contending team or cup contending team. That was also mixed in with a 7 goal blowout of Toronto.
Look, nobody's arguing that this team doesn't compete hard. Nobody's arguing that this team doesn't make the game interesting in the 3rd period more often than not. The team does fight back, and it does have effort, and it is young. It's fun to watch mostly.
But the team's talent level is indisputable. There's no way you can argue against it. The team's most talented player in Gaborik has not shown up since day one and it is really starting to show now considering he's one of the only real talents the Rangers possess.
Nobody's disputing this. But for Buzz Killington to declare that we are going to decline and that he was expecting this all along is ridiculous....especially to declare this after 2 games we could have had (with guys returning from injury and Lundqvist playing below his usual level) and 2-3 weeks of games where we were playing with half of the Hartford team. These are the games we used to LOSE ALL OF THE TIME. Now we win a significant portion of them, including beating some of the best teams in the league with missing players up the wazoo, and yet someone needs to find a problem to complain about. It's almost like Jagr wants this team to fail and miss the playoffs over the next 30ish games so that he can come back here and tell us "I told you so, and I was the FIRST to say it".
Nobody's disputing this. But for Buzz Killington to declare that we are going to decline and that he was expecting this all along is ridiculous....especially to declare this after 2 games we could have had (with guys returning from injury and Lundqvist playing below his usual level) and 2-3 weeks of games where we were playing with half of the Hartford team. These are the games we used to LOSE ALL OF THE TIME. Now we win a significant portion of them, including beating some of the best teams in the league with missing players up the wazoo, and yet someone needs to find a problem to complain about. It's almost like Jagr wants this team to fail and miss the playoffs over the next 30ish games so that he can come back here and tell us "I told you so, and I was the FIRST to say it".
Pretty much. And even if we do make the playoffs, it's highly unlikely we pass the first round. It's just realism.
And I don't come in after a few bad losses--I'm here all year tweeting my own horn of negativity. It grows from being a Ranger fan and being disappointed constantly.
Pretty much. And even if we do make the playoffs, it's highly unlikely we pass the first round. It's just realism.
And I don't come in after a few bad losses--I'm here all year tweeting my own horn of negativity. It grows from being a Ranger fan and being disappointed constantly.
JJ, I agree with you that this team is a pretender come playoff time. And i'm as negative and pessimistic as a Ranger fans comes. I worry constantly that Torts does not have the kind of talent he had in Tampa to ever bring us to the promise land. And I worry for Cap reasons that Sather will never be able to give it to him.
But I have to take issue with that last line. If you can't get behind these guys on this current Rangers roster than I honestly dont know why you watch anymore.?.?.?
That loss to the Devils last night, or any of the losses really are freaking heartbreakers to me as a fan, BUT these Rangers, are the most hard working, young and enjoyable to watch Rangers that I have seen in my whole life, and yes I was 19 when the Rangers won the cup.
While i certainly dont think theres reason to be expecting a Stanley Cup this year, I have to say I enjoy not having to turn off Rangers games in the 3rd period anymore because the team packed it in mid way through the 2nd...
These are hardworking guys that gut it out to te end and I'm proud that their our guys
Unless a game's an absolute blowout and the goalie was terrible I have no idea how just the goaltender could be at fault.
These were close games, where the team could have won if maybe Gaborik scores a big goal, or Cally and Dubi can score on wide open nets from right in front of the crease, or maybe someone can score a shootout goal over 7 rounds or whatever it was.
The head coach of the Rangers seems to disagree with you.
I think the team is what it is a young hard working group that has alot of potential. give them 2 yrs to develop and add the right number one C and I think they are close.
Right now regardles of winning the up they have to try and get into the playoffs so with that at the deadline you stay the course. Do not trade a top prospect but give up pieces and late picks for a PP specialist
They are on the right track but they are going to have some bumps in the road. To be fair they had TONS of injuries and now it's going to take some time for the injured players to get back to game action.
I am pretty confident they will make the playoffs given the standings. I think the Canes will get in but Thrashers will blow it. Besides that other teams are rather far away still but they may creep in. Buffallo has alot of games in hand so lets hope they blow it which I think they will without a guy like Roy around
JJ, I agree with you that this team is a pretender come playoff time. And i'm as negative and pessimistic as a Ranger fans comes. I worry constantly that Torts does not have the kind of talent he had in Tampa to ever bring us to the promise land. And I worry for Cap reasons that Sather will never be able to give it to him.
But I have to take issue with that last line. If you can't get behind these guys on this current Rangers roster than I honestly dont know why you watch anymore.?.?.?
That loss to the Devils last night, or any of the losses really are freaking heartbreakers to me as a fan, BUT these Rangers, are the most hard working, young and enjoyable to watch Rangers that I have seen in my whole life, and yes I was 19 when the Rangers won the cup.
While i certainly dont think theres reason to be expecting a Stanley Cup this year, I have to say I enjoy not having to turn off Rangers games in the 3rd period anymore because the team packed it in mid way through the 2nd...
These are hardworking guys that gut it out to te end and I'm proud that their our guys
Exactly...I've been a fan since 1991, and yes, there have been many disappointments, but most of them have been due to free agent busts, underachieving stars, bad role players, gutless players, bad goaltending, bad drafting, and crappy coaching. Whenever we have had a team that is WORTH following, they have always provided a fun and enjoyable experience. The 1992 and 1996 seasons were enjoyable and we lost to Super Mario. The 1994 season speaks for itself. 1997 we overachieved in the playoffs with an old team. 2006 was enjoyable and we almost made it to the conference finals against a team that was clearly better and more experienced. We had no business beating Washington in 2008 and almost got lucky there. And now we have this year. Not once have I seen a Ranger team overachieve in the regular season and flake out come playoff time (Perhaps 1992 might be an exception- except again, it was Mario Lemieux). This isn't the NY Jets, where you expect great things and always have doom and gloom, even with the good teams. This is a team that achieves exactly what its talent (not the names, the talent) dictates. We were bad when we should have been bad, and good when we should have (or sometimes shouldn't have) been. We had a good winning streak earlier, we are getting career years out of unexpected players, we have a strong D and an all-world goalie, and we're in every game. We win tough road games and back to backs and we beat top teams like Washington and Vancouver. To predict doom and gloom with this team? Why even be a fan?
I think a lot of us are frustrated with the last few losses. All were heartbreaking, and being down to the Devils the other night I really started to question our team. But in the big picture we are in pretty good shape and so much better than in past years. This is probably the best team we've had in a decade.
The one thing I've been saying all year is that the powerplay will kill us, and it has. It's already lost us probably 8 pts in the standings(give or take a few), and it's causing us to slip to the bottom of the EC as opposed to competing for a top spot. Even with the lack of star talent, we'd be competing against PIT for the 4th spot and would be within range of Philly for the top if we had our PP going at a high rate. I don't think we'd actually beat Philly for that spot, but we'd be close. As it is, we will probably settle for the 7th seed, maybe the 6th if things go right. In some ways this is very frustrating, in others, it's very encouraging.
I still think the PP system we have sucks. It's not just the players imo. It seems nomatter what D men we put out there they refuse to shoot. This makes me think it's the system. Another thing is there is a bunch of standing still and lots of passing, which is useless. If you stand in one place you become predictable and easy to defend. We really need a system that allows and encoyrages a lot more movement.
You guys have a lot of what if and but's. It simply isn't that easy--and the facts don't back you up.
The Rangers are 7-7-2 dating back to January 1st. Four of those wins needed extra time to become wins. They've won three regulation games out of the last 16. Also, dating back to January 1st, they've scored 32 goals--an average of exactly 2 gpg. Not nearly enough to be a playoff contending team or cup contending team. That was also mixed in with a 7 goal blowout of Toronto.
Look, nobody's arguing that this team doesn't compete hard. Nobody's arguing that this team doesn't make the game interesting in the 3rd period more often than not. The team does fight back, and it does have effort, and it is young. It's fun to watch mostly.
But the team's talent level is indisputable. There's no way you can argue against it. The team's most talented player in Gaborik has not shown up since day one and it is really starting to show now considering he's one of the only real talents the Rangers possess.
I'm not even argueing against your opinion it's definitely valid but you seem to be dismissing the other side way too readily on the basis that a very injured team was struggling. I honestly feel they got worn down the last month due to injury but guess what they're back and many guys are improving still like MZA, Step, Sauer, McD, Boyle, Prust. Hopefully Cally, Dubs and Gabs play up to their levels (Cally seems to be) and the return of Prospal I didn't have much expectation there but man he looks like he could help carry the team.
You are missing the point with the what ifs. You acknowledge the fact that they make games interesting at the end and that they've won "but" too many times in OT. Well those are both the same what if arguement. You're saying what if they had lost and we're saying well what if they win. Not to mention it bears mentioning this team knows how to CONSISTENTLY put itself in a position to win which to me and the rest of us shows that they compete with every team in the league. And if you compete with every team in the league (except maybe TB and Mon haha) than yea your team has a shot in the PO's. The arguement you're presenting would back up the feeling they prob won't get far in the PO's BUT they can. But that goes for any {PO team so it's a smart arguement to make.
Last edited by JimmyStart*: 02-05-2011 at 11:06 AM.
I think the team is what it is a young hard working group that has alot of potential. give them 2 yrs to develop and add the right number one C and I think they are close.Right now regardles of winning the up they have to try and get into the playoffs so with that at the deadline you stay the course. Do not trade a top prospect but give up pieces and late picks for a PP specialist
They are on the right track but they are going to have some bumps in the road. To be fair they had TONS of injuries and now it's going to take some time for the injured players to get back to game action.
I am pretty confident they will make the playoffs given the standings. I think the Canes will get in but Thrashers will blow it. Besides that other teams are rather far away still but they may creep in. Buffallo has alot of games in hand so lets hope they blow it which I think they will without a guy like Roy around
I agree with this sentiment completely, but do you think we will have the cap resources available to land a number one center this summer??
If not this summer, than how about next, and who are the FA's?
Brad Richards just seems like SUCH the right fit and its a shame we are in our present cap situation with Drury on the Roster and Redden in Hartford....
I think a lot of us are frustrated with the last few losses. All were heartbreaking, and being down to the Devils the other night I really started to question our team. But in the big picture we are in pretty good shape and so much better than in past years. This is probably the best team we've had in a decade.
The one thing I've been saying all year is that the powerplay will kill us, and it has. It's already lost us probably 8 pts in the standings(give or take a few), and it's causing us to slip to the bottom of the EC as opposed to competing for a top spot. Even with the lack of star talent, we'd be competing against PIT for the 4th spot and would be within range of Philly for the top if we had our PP going at a high rate. I don't think we'd actually beat Philly for that spot, but we'd be close. As it is, we will probably settle for the 7th seed, maybe the 6th if things go right. In some ways this is very frustrating, in others, it's very encouraging.
I still think the PP system we have sucks. It's not just the players imo. It seems nomatter what D men we put out there they refuse to shoot. This makes me think it's the system. Another thing is there is a bunch of standing still and lots of passing, which is useless. If you stand in one place you become predictable and easy to defend. We really need a system that allows and encoyrages a lot more movement.
Agreed, why hasn't this team hired a power play specialist to help coach this team??? Tort's doesn't know anyone that can run a power play??
Our PP is horrendous and I agree its not just the players. There are NO PLAYS on the power play, no timing plays, no shifts, no cutters.
It's just pass the puck until the boos are so loud we have to shoot. If I was torts at this point i'd be like ok guys, if I see more than two passes before a shot your sitting. Or design some plays with movement
The head coach of the Rangers seems to disagree with you.
Exactly. He's right about everything. I mean, look at this great powerplay strategy! And he's great at motivating the players. Why play the first 40 minutes of the game? Save it all for the third!
Exactly. He's right about everything. I mean, look at this great powerplay strategy! And he's great at motivating the players. Why play the first 40 minutes of the game? Save it all for the third!
If you can't see that Torts has done one of the best coaching jobs of the year then i don't know what to tell you. Powerplay sucks but i think that has more to do with the players than the coaches.
Tell me....who do the rangers have that has EVER run a power play properly in this league. The only two guys on this team that have ever been pieces to a consistent power play were 1) Gaborik (who is having an atrocious season) and 2) Drury (no comment necessary)
You can't just teach a bunch of rookies and 2nd year players how to run a proper power play and expect them to succeed. Its going to take time.
Honestly, im surprised were not dead last in the league.
I blame gaborik and Sather much more than i blame torts or sullivan.
Exactly. He's right about everything. I mean, look at this great powerplay strategy! And he's great at motivating the players. Why play the first 40 minutes of the game? Save it all for the third!
So you're saying Tortarella isn't qualified to make an assessment about his team's play, simply because the power play stinks?
Agreed, why hasn't this team hired a power play specialist to help coach this team??? Tort's doesn't know anyone that can run a power play??
Our PP is horrendous and I agree its not just the players. There are NO PLAYS on the power play, no timing plays, no shifts, no cutters.
It's just pass the puck until the boos are so loud we have to shoot. If I was torts at this point i'd be like ok guys, if I see more than two passes before a shot your sitting. Or design some plays with movement
This game today is classic example...3 pp chances to take the lead on the road and nothing. Eventually MTL will score and we'll be losing. All MTL is doing is collapsing on us and then clearing it when we f up.
JJ, I agree with you that this team is a pretender come playoff time. And i'm as negative and pessimistic as a Ranger fans comes. I worry constantly that Torts does not have the kind of talent he had in Tampa to ever bring us to the promise land. And I worry for Cap reasons that Sather will never be able to give it to him.
But I have to take issue with that last line. If you can't get behind these guys on this current Rangers roster than I honestly dont know why you watch anymore.?.?.?
That loss to the Devils last night, or any of the losses really are freaking heartbreakers to me as a fan, BUT these Rangers, are the most hard working, young and enjoyable to watch Rangers that I have seen in my whole life, and yes I was 19 when the Rangers won the cup.
While i certainly dont think theres reason to be expecting a Stanley Cup this year, I have to say I enjoy not having to turn off Rangers games in the 3rd period anymore because the team packed it in mid way through the 2nd...
These are hardworking guys that gut it out to te end and I'm proud that their our guys
Hard to explain. Definitely still a fan, and a knowledgeable one at that. A lot of people commend me for that. I attend many games and support the team, I just don't believe in them that much anymore. They have to prove me wrong.
This game today is classic example...3 pp chances to take the lead on the road and nothing. Eventually MTL will score and we'll be losing. All MTL is doing is collapsing on us and then clearing it when we f up.
True, we have no feared point shots, no motion down low and no presence in front of the net...
At some point the coaching staff need to take accountability for marching the same fail out there every powerplay
I honestly believe we could haul somebody out of the 3rd row and they could fix our PP better than anyone in our organization . We also need somebody to be ready to go with a few one timers instead of waiting 10 seconds every time the puck arrives on their stick at the blueline . We also need a guy that likes to stand in front of the net...and not those that are told to go there...who tend to be very easy to move out by the opposing defense...I think we need a Morrow like type of player along those lines . LOL...while I think about it...might I also suggest a guy like Adam MacQuaid from Boston...big ...young & mean . That's it...I'm done ranting . It is no fun living in an area where every 2nd person is a Hab fan .
This team simply isn't that talented. They've overachieved for much of the season. It's only natural they are going through a tough stretch. Hopefully they get some bounces their way soon.
Even with the team's recent struggles, there is a lot to like about the Rangers this year.
Two things I do not like:
1: Our powerplay: It lacks movement. It lacks shots. It lacks creativity. It lacks a QB who can settle it down and create something with a man advantage. Most of all, it lacks balls. I remember a play in pre-season when Stepan (on the half-wall) got the puck right back from the point man and immediately attacked the middle of the ice, then dished to Frolov who cross-creased it to Gaborik for the goal. Since this play, nobody has attacked the middle like that. We have an extra man. You need to attack the middle of the ice and force the PK box to MOVE / DEFEND, thus opening up more lanes, when theoretically there should always be at least one man open because we have an extra one. We need quicker puck movement, smarter puck movement, and we need more player movement. Too often we attempt plays that are harder than they need to be (ie: Dubinsky passes to Callahan on the side of the net who then tries to SPIN while putting a shot on goal or pass through the crease). What happened to two-three quick passes with players moving and a god damn shot on goal? What happened to the back-door play that is available for every other team in the league, but we have not been able to open this play / lane in about ten years. Seriously, there must be an internal Rangers law about not utilizing the back door play on the powerplay. This is every other team's bread and butter on a 5 on 3, but us? Nope. We have three guys all in a straight line by the goal line, instead of a triangle which forces defenders to guard the guy in the slot and open up the cross-crease passing lane.
We need to go between the back-door play, and just quick two or three passes and a one-timer from the point. It's simple. Every other team does this with ease, and they SHOULD because they have an EXTRA MAN. It's absurd how clueless and out-of-sync we look on the powerplay. It totally kills our flow too. Our 5 on 5 play is better than our 5 on 4 play. It doesn't make sense. Coaches need to step in here and change the way we play the powerplay. Of course it comes down to the players executing, but they still aren't moving around when we do have control of the puck. Instead, we end up having to chase the puck around the boards because our point-men keep having to chip it back around the boards for 2 minutes. This needs to change. Prospal will help the PP, but we need a guy on the point who knows what to do. DZ is out of it right now. He should go back to the AHL right now. He's in a bad place, mentally and we don't have time for him to play his way out of it at this point in the season.
2: The way our defensemen move the puck up to our forwards while teams are changing. What is with the long FORCED slap-pass from our zone up to the other teams blue-line along the boards?? This stifles any kind of actual breakout, and when it happens, our forwards are already standing-still at the blue-line, meaning when they tip the puck in, they don't have any speed to go retrieve it / forecheck. Why do we keep doing this? It happens far too often where our defense is not even getting any pressure yet and they slap the puck up the ice to a flat-footed forward at the opposition blue-line for no reason and about 3 seconds later, the other team is coming out of their own zone unmolested with a swift breakout. Our breakouts have gotten worse and worse throughout the year. I think this needs to be addressed in practice. Our transition game and neutral zone play has become so skill-less. It's like we play the first two periods as if we have a 5-0 lead and just want to keep getting the puck deep, even if we don't have any speed to retrieve it / forecheck. Just keep on slappin it down there! Yea!
Then the third period comes and we realize we're trailing so we pick it up and create chance after chance, but it's too often too late. Same old story. We need to stop giving the other team the puck. It's not labelled or recorded as a "turnover" because the other team is getting it in their end and coming up ice with it, but we forfeit possession so friggin much, it's driving me nuts. The game is about puck possession. Look at Detroit, Vancouver, San Jose, Philly, Pittsburgh. They don't do what we do. Their D don't happily slap the puck down the ice when both teams are changing just to have a flat-footed forward tip the puck in and let the other team break out for free.
I feel a move coming. Either a minor move for a Souray or a bigger move to really change the look of this team. Either way, it should be a move to help the PP, whether it's a forward or D coming in.
The reality is this teams flaws have become more and more apparent of late:
1) No true #1 center
2) A top offensive player who's not producing like a top offensive player
3) A lack of grit on the blueline
4) An anemic powerplay with no PP QB or shot from the point
5) A bottom defense pairing who right now are not NHL defensemen
6) A second defense pairing who are not second pairing defensemen right now
7) Too many guys who right now don't really serve a purpose
8) A general lack of experience on the blueline
9) Redundancy in the lineup
The reality is this teams flaws have become more and more apparent of late:
1) No true #1 center
2) A top offensive player who's not producing like a top offensive player
3) A lack of grit on the blueline
4) An anemic powerplay with no PP QB or shot from the point
5) A bottom defense pairing who right now are not NHL defensemen 6) A second defense pairing who are not second pairing defensemen right now 7) Too many guys who right now don't really serve a purpose
8) A general lack of experience on the blueline
9) Redundancy in the lineup
Pretty much spot on, although I would say that Sauer has been fine as a second pairing defenseman.
The team just isn't that good. A team can only overachieve at the rate this team was overachieving for so long. A team can only get by scoring a couple of goals per game for so long before it catches up with them.
My answer to all 3 is to sit tight and do nothing. We're not winning the Cup this year. No need to add anyone now, no need to move anyone, no need for a huge free agent like Richards. Wait til are kids are perfectly marinated and hopefully signed, assess where we are then with the talent and the cap, and then start adding final Cup pieces. Noone wants to have to wait, but the patience will pay off if we lift the Cup in June of 2012 or 2013.
