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Can you feel it? Wang is going to do something drastically stupid this off-season

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Old
02-05-2011, 01:26 PM
  #51
CREW99AW
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Originally Posted by 4Isles4 View Post
so he can get money from the parking lot but not the Arena??? come on....the team is the most important if its not nassua than take it to queens(more likley) or brooklyn....dont drag this out until 2015 like Wang has stated....By wang publically stateing that he will remain here until 2015 he has tiped his hand.....freeagents wont wanna wait 5 then 4 then 3 then 2 or even 1 year of uncertainty.....Also Kate Murry has no pressure...she knows she has until 2015 for either her or Wang to FOLD.....
We've had local writers saying Wang owes it to the fans, to let them know his plans.He's done that by saying the team will stay until the lease expires in 2015.So now he's getting criticized for committing to stay until 2015?

With NY state threatening to take over Nassau County finances, if the cash strapped county can't balance it's budget,Wang has seen Republican leaders like Mangano and D 'Amato suddenly become Lighthouse supporters.

I don't know if the rumors about the Republican leaders trying to force Murray out are true or not,but Wang's refusal to sell would make some sense.If he thinks Murray's being forcred out and will be replaced by someone more favoarable to a large development,he loses little by sitting and waiting.

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02-05-2011, 01:29 PM
  #52
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Wang does not have the money to build a new arena. He won't after the pending lawsuit, anyway.

IF he built the arena up for $200M, he would likely sign a 99 year lease I read once, and the agreement therein would determine how much it benefits he and his son/daughter.

Murray said what was true....there is no way the area could sustain the full project (who pays for roads, who builds the necessary schools, what of the region's already in place revitalization projects already paid for?) so she's not going to fold. She would have to be replaced by someone as corrupt as Nassau's GOP.

So Wang can leave and make less money in Queens, sell and get lost or fight to have NY pass a bond measure and use the funds in place to retrofit the arena.

I think that sums it up.


As for Wang spending.....yeah. He's already spent on a coach and GM who are top notch.

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02-05-2011, 01:33 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
We've had local writers saying Wang owes it to the fans, to let them know his plans.He's done that by saying the team will stay until the lease expires in 2015.So now he's getting criticized for committing to stay until 2015?

With NY state threatening to take over Nassau County finances, if the cash strapped county can't balance it's budget,Wang has seen Republican leaders like Mangano and D 'Amato suddenly become Lighthouse supporters.

I don't know if the rumors about the Republican leaders trying to force Murray out are true or not,but Wang's refusal to sell would make some sense.If he thinks Murray's being forcred out and will be replaced by someone more favoarable to a large development,he loses little by sitting and waiting.
yeahhh but you think Wangs willing to risk it all on Murry being "forced" out...not a safe bet....i hope that it happens but im not holding my breath

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02-05-2011, 02:32 PM
  #54
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yeahhh but you think Wangs willing to risk it all on Murry being "forced" out...not a safe bet....i hope that it happens but im not holding my breath
What's Wang really risking?

A few months ago Forbes magazine reported the isles lost $4.5m last yr.Let's say he loses a similar amount for the next few seasons.In the past,he's claimed to have lost $15m-$20m a season.My guess is that Souzzi's 11th hour lease amendment, has proven to be a big windfall,cutting Wang's losses.So he loses a few million each season,instead of $15m-$20m each season.Then his lease is up in 2015.

Wang knows that at worst,someone....maybe Queens pols,maybe Brooklyn pols,heck maybe even Nassau County pols,will over up something lucrative to get his team in their borough/County and he'll get to keep both his fat cable deal and his team.

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02-05-2011, 02:51 PM
  #55
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The $15-20M was invented (Forbes issued the correct numbers) and one can easily see the arena revenue tied to non-hockey operations would balance out the loss. Add PLAYOFF revenue (the games after game 82 where teams in the top 8 of each conference play one another to advance to a final championship; see: Stanley Cup) and the ensuing parking and arena revenue and he makes money.

Now if the arena was just refurbed to add seating and concourse space, he makes a lot more money. No ToH approval necessary, no studies, just build as it's been approved since the original construction.

Nassau HAS TO save the team, regardless of what the drama over the LHP has people saying. The County also has to recoup money on the losses each year, so I can see a retaking of a portion of the latest deal (parking?).

If the County (or STATE) extends the current agreement, Wang will make a profit each year by just running a good team operation and this drama can end. All we need to see is the money guaranteed to the building be used and financing go towards renovation.

And I mean drastically cheaper renovation.

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02-05-2011, 03:14 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey View Post
The $15-20M was invented (Forbes issued the correct numbers) and one can easily see the arena revenue tied to non-hockey operations would balance out the loss. Add PLAYOFF revenue (the games after game 82 where teams in the top 8 of each conference play one another to advance to a final championship; see: Stanley Cup) and the ensuing parking and arena revenue and he makes money.

Now if the arena was just refurbed to add seating and concourse space, he makes a lot more money. No ToH approval necessary, no studies, just build as it's been approved since the original construction.

Nassau HAS TO save the team, regardless of what the drama over the LHP has people saying. The County also has to recoup money on the losses each year, so I can see a retaking of a portion of the latest deal (parking?).

If the County (or STATE) extends the current agreement, Wang will make a profit each year by just running a good team operation and this drama can end. All we need to see is the money guaranteed to the building be used and financing go towards renovation.

And I mean drastically cheaper renovation.

Who's paying for this drastically cheaper renovation?The cash strapped County,who's finances are in such bad shape,that Albany's threatening to take control if they can't balance their budget?

We are reading comments from Murray's own party leaders,saying her plan is " economically unviable for both the developer and owner of the site.


Just because the ToH is in strong financial shape,doesn't mean Nassau County doesn't need the jobs and tax revenue from Wang's Lighthouse project.

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02-05-2011, 04:20 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey View Post
The $15-20M was invented (Forbes issued the correct numbers) and one can easily see the arena revenue tied to non-hockey operations would balance out the loss. Add PLAYOFF revenue (the games after game 82 where teams in the top 8 of each conference play one another to advance to a final championship; see: Stanley Cup) and the ensuing parking and arena revenue and he makes money.

Now if the arena was just refurbed to add seating and concourse space, he makes a lot more money. No ToH approval necessary, no studies, just build as it's been approved since the original construction.

Nassau HAS TO save the team, regardless of what the drama over the LHP has people saying. The County also has to recoup money on the losses each year, so I can see a retaking of a portion of the latest deal (parking?).

If the County (or STATE) extends the current agreement, Wang will make a profit each year by just running a good team operation and this drama can end. All we need to see is the money guaranteed to the building be used and financing go towards renovation.

And I mean drastically cheaper renovation.
What Wang wants out of this is not to run the hockey team and be a winner, or to even make some small annual profit if possible. What he wants is to recoup his investment in the franchise and all of the accumulated operating losses over the years. His and Kumar's original investment was part cash (possibly borrowed, maybe out of pocket) and assumption of about $65MM in existing debt. He bought Kumar out and may still owe the note which I am sure he wants to get out of. He gambled that if he could put the LH project up with enough profit in it that he could get his full investment and losses back, and even with the funding of Coliseum renovations, he would be free and clear, own the Islanders in a new building, and maybe break even annually on the team. He does not want to own the team, he has said he regrets buying it. He is stuck with it and he just wants to get his money back and if he still owns the team and it can be run at break-even, the better. My guess is if he got his approvals, renovated the building, he may still not invest in players much above the cap floor.

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02-05-2011, 05:45 PM
  #58
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His bank account says something MUCH different.

Ha. Since when does having tons of money equate to being good at running a sports franchise? As if you didn't have enough proof in Wang, Daniel Snyder says "hi."

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02-05-2011, 06:58 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
What's Wang really risking?

A few months ago Forbes magazine reported the isles lost $4.5m last yr.Let's say he loses a similar amount for the next few seasons.In the past,he's claimed to have lost $15m-$20m a season.My guess is that Souzzi's 11th hour lease amendment, has proven to be a big windfall,cutting Wang's losses.So he loses a few million each season,instead of $15m-$20m each season.Then his lease is up in 2015.

Wang knows that at worst,someone....maybe Queens pols,maybe Brooklyn pols,heck maybe even Nassau County pols,will over up something lucrative to get his team in their borough/County and he'll get to keep both his fat cable deal and his team.
so basically we put the franchise on the kids shoulders and hope they move mountains and make magic....because in that case no FA will come here....

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02-05-2011, 08:43 PM
  #60
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so basically we put the franchise on the kids shoulders and hope they move mountains and make magic....because in that case no FA will come here....
The agents for I think Martin and Volchenkov, say Snow outbid other teams for those ufas last summer.

Last summer Kovalchuk's reps were pushing for a 10 yr/$100m contract.Both LA and NJ balked at those numbers.Staples from Newsday, wrote that the isles offered a 1 yr/$10m deal.My guess is the isles didn't want a big,longterm contract because they'll owe their young rfas raises staring in the summer of 2012.

Dee Karl had a 2010 draft weekend article,where she reported on Newsday's Katie Strang draft tweet.Strang says Snow was ready and willing to move his 5th overall,but only if he got a young nhler or top prospect,with the same type of upside as the prospect Snow was eying at 5th overall.

I think the isles are trying to improve the roster.It wouldn't surprise me to again read that Snow's shopping the team's 1st rounder,hoping to land a quality 20-23 yr old,speed up his rebuild.

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02-05-2011, 10:25 PM
  #61
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What moves has Wang made in the last 10 years that you don't like? Yashin's and DiPietro's contracts? Not firing Millbury fast enough? What else? Those were all a long time ago.

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02-05-2011, 10:30 PM
  #62
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Ha. Since when does having tons of money equate to being good at running a sports franchise? As if you didn't have enough proof in Wang, Daniel Snyder says "hi."
Sorry man, but when a fan writes "How can Wang do something smart if he's not capable of it?" (as you did - about a business mogul), it doesn't appear to be anything but sophomoric and, at the best, facetious.


Last edited by Chapin Landvogt: 02-07-2011 at 07:41 AM.
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02-06-2011, 10:41 AM
  #63
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What moves has Wang made in the last 10 years that you don't like? Yashin's and DiPietro's contracts? Not firing Millbury fast enough? What else? Those were all a long time ago.
- Firing Jankoswski
- Having virtually no scouting staff
- Letting E from Entourage hang around the draft table
- Having college kids do our radio broadcasts
- Forcing Butch Goring on the world
- Raising ticket prices and parking while putting a horrible product on the ice
- A suspect training staff (has he considered replacing them? Jesus...)
- Meddling in team affairs when good owners seldom do
- Not promoting open media access

I'm sure I'm missing thirty or forty other points.

If you were being sarcastic and I missed it, then forget this post.

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02-06-2011, 10:51 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Abe Vukota View Post
- Firing Jankoswski
- Having virtually no scouting staff
- Letting E from Entourage hang around the draft table
- Having college kids do our radio broadcasts
- Forcing Butch Goring on the world
- Raising ticket prices and parking while putting a horrible product on the ice
- A suspect training staff (has he considered replacing them? Jesus...)
- Meddling in team affairs when good owners seldom do
- Not promoting open media access

I'm sure I'm missing thirty or forty other points.

If you were being sarcastic and I missed it, then forget this post.
I'm sorry the mixup is I was talking about players and contracts. It looked like you all were too. If you're not talking about any thing on ice that's different.

Two of these aren't right though. Isles have a normal scouting staff and training staff (why do you think they don't?) and I remember they did re-vamp the training staff a year or two ago.

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02-06-2011, 11:41 AM
  #65
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He'll waive Grabner :p

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02-06-2011, 11:55 AM
  #66
periferal
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Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt View Post
Sorry man, but when a fan writes "How can Wang do something smart if he's not capable of it?" (as you did - about a multimillionair business mongol), it doesn't appear to be anything but sophomoric and, at the best, facetious.

Well spelling/grammar errors aside...Can you please list the moves made by Wang AS OWNER OF THE ISLANDERS EXCLUSIVELY that were positive for the franchise? Please tell me what great actions this "multimillionaire business mogul" took that makes us more respected, better run, and most importantly...Closer to winning the Stanley Cup.

I don't care what smarts or non-smarts he had in making millions before 2000. I only care about the Islanders, and he hasn't shown me that he is capable of leading us to a championship.


Last edited by periferal: 02-06-2011 at 12:26 PM.
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02-06-2011, 12:05 PM
  #67
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He'll waive Grabner :p
Nah.The Isles love those cheap contracts

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02-06-2011, 01:02 PM
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- Firing Jankoswski -----Janks had offers for other positions, it is not like we left him in the poorhouse.
- Having virtually no scouting staff-----We don't? Last I knew we had a complete staff sans Janks
- Letting E from Entourage hang around the draft table----- Who cares, does this factor in to who we drafted or stop us from making any moves? It is what it is, publicity.
- Having college kids do our radio broadcasts----- Chris King is a college kid?
- Forcing Butch Goring on the world----- Has nothing to do with the on ice product
- Raising ticket prices and parking while putting a horrible product on the ice--- Shouldn't have raised prices but they did discount them heavily recently, on ice product is young and in rebuild mode.
- A suspect training staff (has he considered replacing them? Jesus...)---- Training staff was recently revamped
- Meddling in team affairs when good owners seldom do---- Many owners meddle in team affairs, whether it is the Devils owners HAVING to have Kovy or Dolan overpaying for under performing vets. Lets not pretend Wang is the only owner in the NHL to have had a negative input into the teams operations.
- Not promoting open media access--- As far as I know Botta is the only one who was denied access and nobody other than Botta and Snow know the reason for it, for all we know it may have been justified on Snows part. You don't find it odd that Botta never put his side of the story out there? As for the rest of the media, you can't force them to cover the least relevant NHL franchise in the metro area.

I'm sure I'm missing thirty or forty other points.--- Most of (if not all) are off ice issues, the past is gone now, we are in the midst of a complete tear down, soup to nuts rebuild, I will judge things based on how they handle the maturation of this team they developed in house.

If you were being sarcastic and I missed it, then forget this post.
Fixed

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02-06-2011, 01:37 PM
  #69
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Wang made money riding the back of the 90's tech boom. When the bubble was coming to a close his company committed one of biggest accounting frauds in US history. His right hand man is in prison while Wang, who jumped ship just early enough, sits free. He's a clown.

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02-06-2011, 01:41 PM
  #70
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Wang made money riding the back of the 90's tech boom. When the bubble was coming to a close his company committed one of biggest accounting frauds in US history. His right hand man is in prison while Wang, who jumped ship just early enough, sits free. He's a clown.

I'm medium on the "clown" comment, but everything else in this post gets a serious .

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02-06-2011, 01:47 PM
  #71
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Wang won't touch anymore high priced players or give out big contracts. All of that stuff was to help get the lighthouse project and now he finally sees none of that worked, so he will spend as little as possible until 2015, when he either gets his project, or sells the team.

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02-06-2011, 03:15 PM
  #72
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Fixed
Cool "Fixed" bro.

On Janks: what does leaving him broke have to do with anything? He did a good job and was an important element of our drafting (hence an incomplete scouting staff; no assistant GM). He had other offers is further proof that he did a good job for us. You defeated your own argument.

E from Entourage generated publicity, little of it good. When things embarrass the franchise, that's a problem for me. As a fan, I would like the organization to not be a laughingstock. Call me crazy. But I do agree that the incredible tidal wave of publicity that came with E's appearance has had tremendous, life-changing effects on the franchise.

On the radio team: you're either willfully ignorant or you don't pay attention. We are on a college radio station. Click this link and you'll see a captioned picture of a Hofstra STUDENT preparing to do play by play. Find me other teams with students working the game broadcast on college radio. If clicking links is a problem, this is from The Isles website: "Chris King will move over to the play-by-play position and various Hofstra broadcast students will have the opportunity to serve as the color analysts and sideline reporters throughout the season."

So, you know, you're completely wrong.

Training staff: hope they were revamped yesterday, since this team has lost a ******** of man games to injury this year, and that never seems to change. That's even the Snow mantra now: "I'm not making excuses, but injuries are my excuse for the team's performance." So they still seem to be an issue, and I doubt Chairman Charlie's tight purse strings help the issue.

Ownership: Good owners seldom meddle, but then again you consider Charles Dolan a good owner. Which explains the rest of your post.
Was Kovy a good decision? No, right? So my point stands: good owners seldom meddle and when they do it's not good. Wang ALWAYS meddles and it's virtually NEVER good. But hey, who knows, sumo goalies and a last place team playoff play-in may catch on and I'll be proven wrong.

Media: forget Botta, look at the arrangement with Newsday. Look at how he fired Jaffe for being negative. This is a closed team, and not in a Belicheck sort of way. More in a "We know this is a circus but we don't think you do" way.

Off ice issues are part of a franchise. Saying "those are off ice issues, ignore them" is idiotic. And claiming that they're all in the past is equally clueless. We're on college radio NOW. We have no assistant GM NOW. Wang meddles in on ice issues NOW. Jaffe was fired this off-season. So how exactly have we moved into a brave new era?

I don't begrudge him not wanting to spend his money on a losing proposition. But he's obviously one of the worst owners in major sports (though much better than Al Davis, Donald Sterling, the McCourts, and probably several others).


Still, you had the "Fixed," and that was KILLER.

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02-06-2011, 04:18 PM
  #73
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Cool "Fixed" bro.

On Janks: what does leaving him broke have to do with anything? He did a good job and was an important element of our drafting (hence an incomplete scouting staff; no assistant GM). He had other offers is further proof that he did a good job for us. You defeated your own argument.

E from Entourage generated publicity, little of it good. When things embarrass the franchise, that's a problem for me. As a fan, I would like the organization to not be a laughingstock. Call me crazy. But I do agree that the incredible tidal wave of publicity that came with E's appearance has had tremendous, life-changing effects on the franchise.

On the radio team: you're either willfully ignorant or you don't pay attention. We are on a college radio station. Click this link and you'll see a captioned picture of a Hofstra STUDENT preparing to do play by play. Find me other teams with students working the game broadcast on college radio. If clicking links is a problem, this is from The Isles website: "Chris King will move over to the play-by-play position and various Hofstra broadcast students will have the opportunity to serve as the color analysts and sideline reporters throughout the season."

So, you know, you're completely wrong.

Training staff: hope they were revamped yesterday, since this team has lost a ******** of man games to injury this year, and that never seems to change. That's even the Snow mantra now: "I'm not making excuses, but injuries are my excuse for the team's performance." So they still seem to be an issue, and I doubt Chairman Charlie's tight purse strings help the issue.

Ownership: Good owners seldom meddle, but then again you consider Charles Dolan a good owner. Which explains the rest of your post.
Was Kovy a good decision? No, right? So my point stands: good owners seldom meddle and when they do it's not good. Wang ALWAYS meddles and it's virtually NEVER good. But hey, who knows, sumo goalies and a last place team playoff play-in may catch on and I'll be proven wrong.

Media: forget Botta, look at the arrangement with Newsday. Look at how he fired Jaffe for being negative. This is a closed team, and not in a Belicheck sort of way. More in a "We know this is a circus but we don't think you do" way.

Off ice issues are part of a franchise. Saying "those are off ice issues, ignore them" is idiotic. And claiming that they're all in the past is equally clueless. We're on college radio NOW. We have no assistant GM NOW. Wang meddles in on ice issues NOW. Jaffe was fired this off-season. So how exactly have we moved into a brave new era?

I don't begrudge him not wanting to spend his money on a losing proposition. But he's obviously one of the worst owners in major sports (though much better than Al Davis, Donald Sterling, the McCourts, and probably several others).


Still, you had the "Fixed," and that was KILLER.

Abe-

You're on the scene. Well done. I'm still trying to figure out why any poster would try to defend Wang to vehemently.

Maybe Wang cut all costs on the team this year so he could pay people to post here in his defense. After all...Isn't public perception more important than winning?


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02-06-2011, 04:49 PM
  #74
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Can we change the category of ISLANDERS to: DP/SNOW/WANG SUCKS!!!

It would be most appropriate, as anyone that's fine with the rebuild or with Wang saving the team (Bob Gotnomonski had no money so is NO SAVIOUR!!!) is either blind / naive / drinking kool-aid / or being paid off by Wang (someone has to collect on the Wang bucks floating around out there!!!).

When I clicked on that "make money working from home" ad. I never knew I would get paid until 2015 for worshipping Charles our Saviour. Who needs Jesus?!?!?!?!?!

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02-06-2011, 05:11 PM
  #75
Chapin Landvogt
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Well spelling/grammar errors aside...Can you please list the moves made by Wang AS OWNER OF THE ISLANDERS EXCLUSIVELY that were positive for the franchise? Please tell me what great actions this "multimillionaire business mogul" took that makes us more respected, better run, and most importantly...Closer to winning the Stanley Cup.

I don't care what smarts or non-smarts he had in making millions before 2000. I only care about the Islanders, and he hasn't shown me that he is capable of leading us to a championship.
Well, when you wrote "How can Wang do something smart if he's not capable of it?", it didn't sound like you meant it in sole reference to his actions as an Islander owner for the Islanders, but rather to him in general.

As for his Islander ownership in and of itself, we were practically at the crux of becoming non-existent when he bought this team. I for one will be forever greatful that he even did that, especially in light of the building and the MSG deal. When he came in, I had no problems with him allowing Milbury to obtain Yashin, Peca, Aucoin, Osgood, etc. No problems at all. Those were moves geared towards getting this franchise back on the map and I understood and supported them thoroughly. For one season, they did get us back on the map.

I can't sit here and say I haven't often wished for another form or style of ownership, because I have, but I sure don't have the disgust and disrespect for the guy that many others here do. In addition, it seems many are even critical of him trying to make a business venture out of this team and the property.

To that, I can only say 'get real people'.

In addition, I do think he's seriously interested in this venture and even the fans. Too much at times, but if he wants to be a hands on owner in many respects, well, he's the one dishing out the money. He has every right to that. If folks don't like it or its results, then they stop spending money on the team. It's as easy as that.

And many have.

As for the general idea of this thread, I believe that with the Lighthouse Project seemingly on the icey grounds of political stoppage, Wang is seriously calculating what is next and what the future holds. I don't blame him; any owner would.

And like it or not, in light of this uncertainty and knowing the team will stick here until at least 2015, we should expect more of the same: few big signings, lots of kids, lots of amateurs getting a shot to show their stuff (and that goes for coaching and management as well).

I don't think that'll change much one way or the other the next 3 summers.

If this team is gonna win, it'll start doing so with the personnel that is there and available, i.e. through primarily drafted kids or guys taken off the scrap heap.

Some fans will see that as 'drastically stupid'.

Chapin Landvogt is offline   Reply With Quote
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