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Zhamnov & Malakhov looking to walk

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06-28-2004, 02:11 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan McGillis 03
I didn't say the acquisition of Zhamnov was bad at all. re-read the post. but to re-sign a guy who's skills are on the decline for 5+ million dollars, no, he can walk. Roenick-Primeau-Handzus-Sharp is still in the top group of center lineups in the league
Without Zhamnov (that means having just Primeau, Handzus and Roenick) the Flyers DO NOT repeat DO NOT beat New Jersey, maybe not Toronto either (scored the GWG on the PP in Game 2 and then we lost Games 3 and 4)

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06-28-2004, 02:25 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Teezax
They won't get any better offer from any better teams than Philly.
That is really the important part of this whole scenario. The high spending Flyers are going cheap on money. Let me say that again. The high spending Flyers are not spending money, so what does that tell you a team like Carolina is going to do? Zhamnov, Recchi and Malakhov all need to realize that they have very few options when it comes to teams to play for. They have the teams like Pittsburgh who saved a ton of money by ditching all of their talent and will struggle to make the playoffs. Playing for Pittsburgh they make their money, but may or may not have an opportunity to play for the cup or even the playoffs. The other option is to take a pay cut and play for the cup on a team like Philly. Maybe his choice will show what kind of player he is, a player who wants to win or a player who wants money. Granted they both played large roles in the Flyers "success" in the playoffs, but maybe that was their skill not their desire.

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06-28-2004, 02:32 PM
  #28
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While your point on Zhamnov and Malakhov are valid, Recchi doesn't belong in that mix. He actually wants to play for the Flyers and is willing to take a pay cut. Maybe if he offers to play for free?

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06-28-2004, 03:23 PM
  #29
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It would be nice to just throw money at these two guys and have them re sign, but like John said, the Flyers can't really afford to go much higher. So in reality, it isn't a case of what these players are "worth" but rather a case of what the Flyers can afford to pay to them. And in this case, it isn't much more then they've been offered.

Considering the economic situation in the NHL right now, if I were Clarke I'd stand pat with my offer and not go any higher. If they test the Free Agent market I doubt there are a whole lot of teams, if any, that would beat or even match the Flyers offers for these two guys. However, if there were teams willing to match those offers, then I'd let both of them go and plug the holes. Move JR back to center and have Sharp/Carter/Richards (most likely Sharp) on the fourth line and give Seidenberg a chance on defense. That's still a good enough lineup to make the playoffs and contend, no question about it.

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06-28-2004, 03:51 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Overtime
While your point on Zhamnov and Malakhov are valid, Recchi doesn't belong in that mix. He actually wants to play for the Flyers and is willing to take a pay cut. Maybe if he offers to play for free?
Granted with Recchi it isn't about money, or at least about making more money. Recchi was financially willing to take a pay cut. Recchi has been told he would be offered something once the CBA was in place, but is not willing to wait for that to happen. So how badly does he want to play for Philly? Does Philly really want him back, or is this Clarke posturing so that the fans aren't upset that Clarke isn't going to sign him? Couldn't Clarke take the money he was going to give Malakhov and give it to Recchi? Sure he could, but the point is that he doesn't want to. Either he really doesn't care whether Recchi returns to Philly, or he doesn't want him back. He has shown one thing to Recchi and that is that he was 4th man out of 4 when it came to UFA's on the team. How would you feel if you were the leading scorer of your team, yet the GM put you at 4th in importance of resigning? Yes, he is getting old, but so is Malakhov. We have 6 defenseman on the team even with Malakhov leaving, but lack scoring wingers, so why the defenseman and not the forward?

In all honesty, I think Clarke miscalculated just how loyal Recchi would be to Philly. I think the day they discussed this that Clarke basically told him that Philly wants him back, but only after the CBA is decided because he assumed that Recchi would be willing to stay in Philly, to retire in Philly, and wait out till the CBA was decided while Zhamnov and Malakhov would not. I think Recchi is now offended and is so pissed he is going to leave.

So be it Rex, you were fun to watch at times and at others frustrating beyond belief. Enjoy yourself in Pittsburgh. I hope that you do see the ice again as a player.

The ultimate irony: If Recchi signs a 1 year deal with Pitt, but the season never happens due to a lockout, Recchi will once again be a UFA. A UFA who still didn't get paid for the whole year previous, whether he was under contract or not.

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06-28-2004, 04:17 PM
  #31
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I'm not sure what the deal is with Clarke. It sounds like Hitch wants Recchi back. It sounds like Recchi wants to be back.

Clarke often underestimates how people will react to what he does or says. I think he really thought Recchi would wait for the new CBA. What would that accomplish though? Perhaps Clarke figures that once the CBA is in place he can free up money for Recchi by dropping Amonte and LeClair. Or maybe he really feels that the season won't happen and that Recchi won't be in condition to play after sitting out a year. If the latter is the case, I think he again underestimates Recchi. He's a person who has worked on his off-season conditioning each and every year to be in shape for the new season. There is no reason to believe he won't spend the year off staying fit.

Clarke still lives in the past in many respects. Players didn't stay in shape when he played. He doesn't understand the modern athlete very well.

I'm not sure why Recchi frustrates you beyond belief. He's a player who always gives his all. When he hasn't produced its been because of injury or illness. Pneumonia, concussions, sore shoulders, groin injuries, etc. But he never complains about those injuries. Maybe that is his downfall. Some fans might not realize just what he is going through to play the game.

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06-28-2004, 04:25 PM
  #32
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I don't mean to put the hurt on Zhamnov, but right now in my mind, Recchi > Zhamnov. Why? Recchi wants to play for the Flyers, he will play for less money, AND he put up 75 points, I like Zhammy a lot, but we have plenty of young centers coming up and we are weak on RW, I wanted to buy out Amonte, but now that we are losing Rex, who is going to play RW?

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06-28-2004, 04:25 PM
  #33
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I think they should forget about malakhov, he's done anyway...try to get zhamnov (at a reasonable price) and bring back recchi and amonte only...leclair aint what he used to be, i think his conditioning has slipped up.

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06-28-2004, 04:39 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson
Without Zhamnov (that means having just Primeau, Handzus and Roenick) the Flyers DO NOT repeat DO NOT beat New Jersey, maybe not Toronto either (scored the GWG on the PP in Game 2 and then we lost Games 3 and 4)
Are you telling me you'd give him the money he wants? What kind of GM would you be. You have a poitn, Zhamnov was key in beating the Devils, but who's to say he will do the same next year. Remember Leclair before he signed the big 5 yr contract. He was a top 2 player on our team, and what happened since? You have to realize that in this league players play to their full potential only on the last year of their respected contracts. The way things look today, i'd rather have Recchi (a hard working veteran and Philly native for a while now, who has already deferred money in the past and has the passion to play for the Flyers, and is part of the core) then Zhamnov (30 games in a Flyers uniform, dissapeared in the last 10 playoff games, wants more money, played for crap teams all his life, doesn't realize a good situation when he sees one, greedy and won't take a paycut when the rest of the players in the league have come to terms on the NHL reality of '04-05)

It's a shame what we're doing to Mark. He deserves to be here, especially after being our *** MVP all season long. Just when Clarke was looking good, he does something extremely boneheaded. Mark would have played for less money just to be here. You have to respect a guy like that.

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06-28-2004, 05:36 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teezax
Are you telling me you'd give him the money he wants? What kind of GM would you be.
Yes. Why? Because I'm buying out LeClair and dumping Amonte for whatever I can get. That's about $8 mill we free up. If the team is serious about winning, this is how it is to be done. He IS an important member of the team.


It's either this or in February, Clarke trades Sharp, Seidenberg and our 1st round pick for someone like Zhamnov who is playing on a poor team, and that is even worse than Clarke giving Zhamnov an extra mill per season.

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06-28-2004, 06:09 PM
  #36
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Im looking at it as:

Zhamnov ($5m), Recchi ($4m) and Malakhov (3.5m) or
Palffy ($6-7m), Carter/Richards/Sharp (500K) and Seidenberg/UFA Dman(500K/$2-2.5m)

Resigning players costs $12.5m and getting a sniper and promoting youth costs a max of $10m. The salaries may be a bit out but you get my point, The Flyers get better in the long run and save money.

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06-28-2004, 06:17 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve L
Im looking at it as:

Zhamnov ($5m), Recchi ($4m) and Malakhov (3.5m) or
Palffy ($6-7m), Carter/Richards/Sharp (500K) and Seidenberg/UFA Dman(500K/$2-2.5m)

Resigning players costs $12.5m and getting a sniper and promoting youth costs a max of $10m. The salaries may be a bit out but you get my point, The Flyers get better in the long run and save money.


Good call but does the organization think Carter is ready?

P.S. Bring up Niittimaky for the love of hockey!

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06-28-2004, 06:20 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve L
Im looking at it as:

Zhamnov ($5m), Recchi ($4m) and Malakhov (3.5m) or
Palffy ($6-7m), Carter/Richards/Sharp (500K) and Seidenberg/UFA Dman(500K/$2-2.5m)

Resigning players costs $12.5m and getting a sniper and promoting youth costs a max of $10m. The salaries may be a bit out but you get my point, The Flyers get better in the long run and save money.
Keep Recchi at $2.5m, dump LeClair and Amonte, and add another of Carter/Richards and you've improved leadership, scoring, speed, and youth, and saved another $11.5m.

Sharp and Seidenberg are already on the team BTW. With Timander gone, Seidenberg should get a regular spot.

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06-28-2004, 06:44 PM
  #39
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Is the likely-hood we will sign Recchi dramatically increased if Zhamnov walks?

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06-28-2004, 07:18 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyr_Fan
Good call but does the organization think Carter is ready?

P.S. Bring up Niittimaky for the love of hockey!
It is pretty much a given that when the next NHL season starts Carter will be on the team. 50-50 for Richards.

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06-28-2004, 07:58 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ObeySteve
Is the likely-hood we will sign Recchi dramatically increased if Zhamnov walks?
Recchi pretty much gave Clarke an ultimatum: Offer him something before July 1st or he's looking elsewhere. That's not to say he wouldn't still consider coming back to the Flyers, but Clarke could be competing against other teams. There is still the family issue though that works in Clarke's favor. The Recchi's like it in the Philly area, and Recchi wants to win another Cup. Their oldest will be starting Kindergarten this year. I'm sure he'd like to see stability in her schooling.

Curran told Recchi to wait a week after the start of free agency. So he is going to Hilton Head for a vacation starting Thursday. Clarke should know before then what Zhamnov is going to do.

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06-28-2004, 09:05 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve L
Im looking at it as:

Zhamnov ($5m), Recchi ($4m) and Malakhov (3.5m) or
Palffy ($6-7m), Carter/Richards/Sharp (500K) and Seidenberg/UFA Dman(500K/$2-2.5m)

Resigning players costs $12.5m and getting a sniper and promoting youth costs a max of $10m. The salaries may be a bit out but you get my point, The Flyers get better in the long run and save money.
If you think Carter and Richards sign for anything less than 900K a piece, don't count on them ever signing with the Flyers then. A strong junior campaign, and both can easily request a rookie maximum. I don't think either are eligible for the WJC's though.


That said, a new CBA could bring a new rookie max, and don't count on either one being signed for next season.

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06-28-2004, 11:16 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson
Without Zhamnov (that means having just Primeau, Handzus and Roenick) the Flyers DO NOT repeat DO NOT beat New Jersey, maybe not Toronto either (scored the GWG on the PP in Game 2 and then we lost Games 3 and 4)
Please re-read my first post that started this whole arguement.

Zhamnov was a great pickup, no question we needed him when Primeau and Roenick bit the dust, no question he came up huge in the first portion of the playoffs. I never said that was a bad move

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06-29-2004, 01:19 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pontifex Maximus
It is pretty much a given that when the next NHL season starts Carter will be on the team. 50-50 for Richards.
are Richards and Carter even under contract yet for the Flyers?

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06-29-2004, 08:22 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson
Yes. Why? Because I'm buying out LeClair and dumping Amonte for whatever I can get. That's about $8 mill we free up. If the team is serious about winning, this is how it is to be done. He IS an important member of the team.


It's either this or in February, Clarke trades Sharp, Seidenberg and our 1st round pick for someone like Zhamnov who is playing on a poor team, and that is even worse than Clarke giving Zhamnov an extra mill per season.
He won't be the same player we saw last year, once he get s the money he wants, he'll become lazy and unmotivated just like John Leclair.
And even if we save 8 million, we need to bring our payroll down a lot more than that if they do propose a low 30+ million cap.

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06-29-2004, 09:52 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by ClarkeMustGoDotCom
are Richards and Carter even under contract yet for the Flyers?
True but the league isn't even under contract for next season yet.

Carter and Richards won't be hard to sign. They'll get the rookie max and reasonable bonuses. This is the Flyers, not some crappy team that can't sign their players.

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06-29-2004, 09:59 AM
  #47
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I am tending to look at this the same way SteveL is above. Resign Recchi, sign the young guys and see who isn't offered a qualifying offer by July1. I think if Zhamnov and Malakhov are determined to test the market, let them and we go get other players. I figure Clarke was willing to offer Zhamnov 10 million over 3 years and Malakhov 6 million over 2 years, that is a lot of money he is willing to tie up in UFA's. Sign Recchi at 2 million for 1 year and an option for a 2nd year at 1.5 million (player) or 2 million (team). This still leaves you 4.5 million dollars next year to spend on a UFA. You could bring in the young (28) Jeff O'Neill for that, plus sign Richards and Carter. Or maybe you bring in Glen Murray or Brian Rolston. Maybe you sign a FA defenseman like Matvicuk or go cheap with someone like Chris Tamer to be your #7 guy. You probably could bring back Weinrich really cheap. I personally like the O'Neill option, but that only happens if he is not given a qualifying offer. 3 million a year for 2 or 3 seasons gets him to UFA status. Look at the potential if you sign both O'Neill and Recchi:

Gagne/Roenick/Carter
O'Neill/Handzus/Recchi
Radio/Primeau/Kapanen
Brashear/Sharp/Somik
Extra: Fedoruk

By the end of the season, I bet Umberger is pushing Somik and Sharp to stay in the lineup. In essence you have replace Leclair with Jeff Oneill and Amonte with Jeff Carter. That to me is an upgrade and we will have added 2 new RW shooters to the top 2 lines.

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06-29-2004, 11:23 AM
  #48
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i think Clarke is waiting to find out if the buyout money goes against a likely cap. unless he is waiting for July 1st to see what Zhamnov and Recchi decide to do.
until then Jeff O'Neill is not an option

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06-29-2004, 09:53 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClarkeMustGoDotCom
i think Clarke is waiting to find out if the buyout money goes against a likely cap. unless he is waiting for July 1st to see what Zhamnov and Recchi decide to do.
until then Jeff O'Neill is not an option
O'Neill was given a qualifing offer.

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06-29-2004, 10:54 PM
  #50
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O'Neill was given a qualifing offer.

and re-signed with Carolina

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