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Old
08-02-2010, 09:59 AM
  #1
txdude5101
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Hawks sign Turco

No official link

http://twitter.com/TheFourthPeriod/status/20109098392

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08-02-2010, 11:07 AM
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Caseman
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Shows how little Chicago thought of Niemi. As everyone knew, it was defense, not goaltending, that carried that team.

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08-02-2010, 11:13 AM
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Karitimes
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Terrible time to be a FA goalie with a 2.75 asking price. Bye Bye Antii, you'll be a good bit of trivia in 20 years.

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08-02-2010, 12:13 PM
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Poor Blackhawks.

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08-02-2010, 01:30 PM
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Can we get a show of hands for those who think Turco has a good/great season in 10-11?

He will be extremely motivated and playing behind one of the best defense corps in the league. I chalk up the Turco signing as an upgrade at a cheaper rate than Niemi for the Hawks next year.

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08-02-2010, 01:59 PM
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Turco will have a good season with Chicago if he works on and improves his positioning, but then after awhile he'll revert back to relying on his athletic ability and start to struggle.

His soft five hole goals will continue there, that has nothing to do with the defense. I think Corey Crawford may end up taking over for Turco as the starting goalie for awhile next season.

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08-02-2010, 04:02 PM
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I see the softies still going in, but perhaps at a lower rate due to his playing with more confidence and motivation. But, even if they continue at the same rate they won't be as big of a deal because he will be seeing fewer opportunities against him in the first place.

Hell, he not even be playing for a next contract. He may see this as his golden Cup winning opportunity; win, lose, either way he may just go home at the end.

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08-02-2010, 04:20 PM
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I am still of the opinion that Turco is a reflection of the defense in front of him much more so than your general butterfly goalie. His scrambling means teams have to be good at tracking down guys on rebounds, but he's also a lot more likely to make the very difficult saves.

Chicago, which has lost a lot up front but kept its blueline pretty steady, is the ideal situation for a guy like him.

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08-02-2010, 04:21 PM
  #9
Stevonidas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glovesave_35 View Post
Can we get a show of hands for those who think Turco has a good/great season in 10-11?

He will be extremely motivated and playing behind one of the best defense corps in the league. I chalk up the Turco signing as an upgrade at a cheaper rate than Niemi for the Hawks next year.


I love how people on this board thought Turco was trash because he wasn't signed by another team within the first five days of Free Agency. Must say something if the defending Cup champs are interested in you. It'll be nice to see him excel behind a halfway competent defense for a change. Personally, I think the Hawks just made a giant step toward another deep run into the playoffs next year. It'll depend mostly on how the replacements for all the key players they lost this offseason perform, though.

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08-02-2010, 04:53 PM
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Okay I understand you are a huge Marty fan but can we taper the enthusiasm just a bit? You're acting like the cup is all but his. Like I've said in other places around the boards I think Turco will do very well behind the stout Blackhawks' defense, however, that defense is not going to stop that first shot of the game goal he frequently lets in, those are on him to stop even as they were behind the crappy Dallas defense. Also this is not the Blackhawks team from last year, I have no doubt they will make playoffs but depth is important in the playoffs and they have lost significant depth and I just don't see them repeating as champs. So far they have lost:

Byfuglein
Eager
Sopel
Ladd
Fraser
Versteeg
Niemi
Boynton
Madden
Burish
Johnsson
Huet-soon anyway
(last 3 are inconsequential regarding last year's playoffs)

Now that being said Marty is known for his ability to go on great runs and maybe he goes on a great run for them and wins the Conn Smythe (yea I said it), but it will be up to Chicago to keep his work load lighter, he cannot play 65+ games a year with his style of play at his age and still be effective. This Chicago team is certainly not without its challenges this next season.


Last edited by vofty: 08-02-2010 at 05:01 PM. Reason: misplaced apostrophe bugged me
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08-02-2010, 04:58 PM
  #11
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I really hope Turco can rebound. Not because I want him to have Stars fans pissed that he didn't succeed for them but because I know the guy is/was a great goalie and deserves to have at least one more good season.

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08-02-2010, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevonidas View Post
I love how people on this board thought Turco was trash because he wasn't signed by another team within the first five days of Free Agency.
Who?

And I'll echo 'WordUp.'

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08-02-2010, 05:06 PM
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Karitimes
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Originally Posted by Kritter471 View Post
I am still of the opinion that Turco is a reflection of the defense in front of him
I'll wait until Lehtonen struggles before I go with this idea. Looking a lot like the same core will be in place to start the season, so maybe we'll see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevonidas View Post
I love how people on this board thought Turco was trash because he wasn't signed by another team within the first five days of Free Agency. Must say something if the defending Cup champs are interested in you.
It wasn't reality to paint the picture rosie anymore. Hats off to him on his puckhandling and leadership qualities, but outside that there hasn't been much to write home about the past 2 or 3 years.

I hope he does well (while hoping for some priceless Turco moments mixed in), but obviously financials came into play and he took a big time pay cut to make it possible to land in Chicago. Had Niemi been asking the same price, Turco would be unemployed.

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08-02-2010, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Casey 91 View Post
I'll wait until Lehtonen struggles before I go with this idea. Looking a lot like the same core will be in place to start the season, so maybe we'll see.
How Lehtonen does should have no bearing on the statement I made. Honestly, I think a guy like Lehtonen will perform better behind a porous defense because he's better at making the routine save, at least in theory. He's always where he's supposed to be, he gives you a big body, he doesn't let his rebounds eat him up. When you've got a defense that gives up a ton of shots and can't block out players going for a rebound, you need that. But it won't necessarily raise the level of a team with an already solid defense because the low level opportunities are clamped down on but the really high quality opportunities will still get through, and he's less likely than Turco to make a save on those. Heck, you might call these guys volume goaltenders - they'll stop 90-92 percent of shots behind a terrible D or a fantastic one. Really good versions of this player will stop 92-93 percent behind any type of D.

Turco's strengths are his ability to make the uncommon save, his reflexes, his puckhandling ability and things along those lines. He struggles with the routine but excels at the difficult. The more opportunities his defense lets through, the worse he looks. But his ability to make the uncommon save makes an already good defense that much better because those defenses don't give up much of the routine stuff, and he's more likely to stop the stuff they give up than your steady guy. Turco's a guy who stops, in general, 88-90 percent of the shots behind a bad defense but 92-94 percent behind a very good one.

It's all analysis, which is rooted in opinion by definition, so feel free to agree or disagree with it. But I think Turco's a guy who won't get you to the top but can bring you over it, if that makes any sense. He's a terrible guy for a team that's struggling with it's talent on D, which is why he hasn't been great with the Stars recently - the D has been atrocious the past two seasons, and that's magnified his weaknesses. But before that, when the Stars D was top 10 in the league, he was the perfect guy because he magnified the defense's strengths.

The Hawks have lost a metric ton, but almost nothing on D, which is why I think he'll be a good fit for them. It might not be enough to make up for everything they lost in the offseason, but he's the right fit there where he really wasn't in Dallas anymore.

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08-02-2010, 05:38 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kritter471 View Post
How Lehtonen does should have no bearing on the statement I made. Honestly, I think a guy like Lehtonen will perform better behind a porous defense because he's better at making the routine save, at least in theory.
Maybe how Lethonen does has no bearing on how Turco should be judged, but the bolded was really all I was getting at, the key being 'perform better'.

Everyone has their own take on Turco, he's a tricky one to judge. I share a lot of the same opinion as you in your analysis of his play, but I look forward to some stability if Kari can stay healthy.

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08-02-2010, 05:46 PM
  #16
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It was a small sample size, but in Lehtonen's final 9 starts of the season according to Heika he had a .926 save percentage.

Will see what happens next year if it is the same exact defense Lehtonen's save percentage IMO will higher then Turco's this past season.

The problem I've always had with Turco is he was being paid like a elite goalie, when he wasn't one. His first season he was great, but after that he wasn't and he was signed to the contract after a great season, a mediocre season and a above average to good season? That money could've been spent elsewhere over the course of that time and the defense wouldn't be as bad as it is now. It hindered them from going after various top defenseman they wanted to add since the lockout in FA before the team had money problems, while we don't know if some of the players would've actually signed with the Stars they couldn't offer them the same money.

The defense made him look better then he was for awhile and when he was faced playing with a below average to poor defense he wasn't good at all, such as other goalies like Vokoun who still can play good behind a poor defense or Luongo when he was in Florida behind a similar defense to the Stars have now.

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08-02-2010, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by ________ View Post
It was a small sample size, but in Lehtonen's final 9 starts of the season according to Heika he had a .926 save percentage.

Will see what happens next year if it is the same exact defense Lehtonen's save percentage IMO will higher then Turco's this past season.

The problem I've always had with Turco is he was being paid like a elite goalie, when he wasn't one. His first season he was great, but after that he wasn't and he was signed to the contract after a great season, a mediocre season and a above average to good season? That money could've been spent elsewhere over the course of that time and the defense wouldn't be as bad as it is now. It hindered them from going after various top defenseman they wanted to add since the lockout in FA before the team had money problems, while we don't know if some of the players would've actually signed with the Stars they couldn't offer them the same money.

The defense made him look better then he was for awhile and when he was faced playing with a below average to poor defense he wasn't good at all, such as other goalies like Vokoun who still can play good behind a poor defense or Luongo when he was in Florida behind a similar defense to the Stars have now.
I completely agree, especially with the bold and your last paragraph.

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08-02-2010, 07:03 PM
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Wow, Chicago get a steal for Turco. I'd love to be paying our starting goalie 1.3 million, but we all have dreams. I think he'll do considerably better there, but some things can't be changed. He'll still let in those soft goals, but he's definitely worth it to this team. Better than Huet, cheaper than Niemi. Can't wait to see the first Chicago-Dallas game now, that one's gonna be real interesting.

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08-02-2010, 07:09 PM
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So here's the question, how long until Stars fans chat tuuuuurrrrrccccccooooooooooo?

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08-02-2010, 07:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caseman View Post
I completely agree, especially with the bold and your last paragraph.
Me too. Except for the Luongo bit. I just cringe at any Luongo talk. If Kari can match him in save percentage, that's nice, but I hope he doesn't just gain a reputation as this elite goalie on a losing team. To me a good goalie takes you places and makes up for deficiencies elsewhere (Hasek). Luongo has only proven to hide in Florida and come out and crap it when expected to win on a good team.

I know it's somewhat besides the point of what ______ was getting at, but just my two cents on 7uongo.



Quote:
Originally Posted by DoesURchickenFLY View Post
So here's the question, how long until Stars fans chat tuuuuurrrrrccccccooooooooooo?
Already did, in one of what seems like dozen Turco threads floating around the main board. Surprisingly, feels pretty good.

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08-02-2010, 08:07 PM
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it'll be interesting to see how the hawks' d responds to turoc's puckhandling. [lamo... the spell check suggested "mishandling" for puckhandling...]

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08-02-2010, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Casey 91 View Post
Me too. Except for the Luongo bit. I just cringe at any Luongo talk. If Kari can match him in save percentage, that's nice, but I hope he doesn't just gain a reputation as this elite goalie on a losing team. To me a good goalie takes you places and makes up for deficiencies elsewhere (Hasek). Luongo has only proven to hide in Florida and come out and crap it when expected to win on a good team.

I know it's somewhat besides the point of what ______ was getting at, but just my two cents on 7uongo.

He's struggled against Chicago, but so did the great Nabokov, which Nabokov is overrated IMO. How could the other great goalies (Ryan Miller and Broduer) lose in round one?
or another one Lundqvist didn't even make the playoffs and the biggest problem is come playoff time it's up to skaters to win the games, not the goalies. The goalies are a big part getting you to the playoffs, but when the playoffs starts all it takes is one average goalie to get hot in front of a good team.

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08-02-2010, 10:51 PM
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This and rumors that Modano is gone on the same day ... yuck.

Best of luck to Marty in Chicago. He had a good run here, in my mind second only to Eddie's ... class guy and a good goalie for a long time. Count me among the group who expect him to play very well next season.

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08-03-2010, 01:38 AM
  #24
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Marty Turco pulled a reverse Eddie Belfour in a sense.

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08-03-2010, 03:55 AM
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Karitimes
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playoff time it's up to skaters to win the games, not the goalies. The goalies are a big part getting you to the playoffs, but when the playoffs starts all it takes is one average goalie to get hot in front of a good team.
This is a such a can of worms statement. I find it contradictory and false according to a good sample or recent playoff history.

The underlined would be contradictory in that if it's up to the players to win games, why do you rely on the average goalie to get hot? Comes back to team IMO; the goalie has to steal a few and the players in front of him have to put up a dominant performance other nights. Niemi was talked about as a possible Conn Smythe candidate through a couple rounds because he stole a few games and had stepped up as much as anyone. In the East, the Pens and Caps were sent packing because of goaltending alone. Theme through 2 rounds, goaltending. It brings me back to criticizing Luongo (who IMO was the most overrated man in hockey until this spring) for not doing enough of this when it counts the past couple years.

To highlight the fact that goaltending wins games in the playoffs, dating back to 86, 8 out of the 23 (better than 35%) Conn Smythe trophies are won by a goalie. Pretty incredible considering the amount of potential players that could be in the running for it each year.

And the scenario seeing an average goalie get hot (at times) in front of a good team has only happened once maybe twice by my count in the last 24 years dating back to 86'.

Each scenario for winning is slightly different, but almost always ends up with proven goaltenders at the helm or goaltending heroics as the underlying theme.

Top teams with with world class goalies - 87 and 03 fit the description, though it was actually Hextall and Giggy winning the CS over Fuhr and Brodeur in their teams losing cause. (87,88,91,92,94,95,96,99,00,01,02,03,04,07,09)

Super-human goaltending or unproven goalies taking underdog teams to the promised land on the backs of Conn Smythe performances (86,90,06).

Great goalies stealing it for okay teams (93)

Average goalies stealing it for a great team (97).

Even some great goalie performances that will be forgotten for runner-up teams (91,99) that had no business being where they were had they not received incredible goaltending performances.

Then there's 2010 - I don't think I've seen an average unproven goalie just ham n' egg it to a championship in front of a top team like we witnessed this year. Maybe a sign of things to come in the cap era.

The only situation that comes close to resembling this years Hawks might be the 89 Flames, but Vernon was likely more highly regarded and therefore not considered average Antii at the time. Maybe the 98 and 08 Wings teams would be the best examples, even though they didn't get hot goaltending, it was team dominance and good enough goaltending.

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