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Is Gauthier right to deal so many picks?

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Old
02-05-2011, 09:17 PM
  #1
not quite yoda
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Is Gauthier right to deal so many picks?

He traded a 2nd for Moore last year and then let him walk. He traded a 2nd to move up in the draft to get Tinordi in the 1st. He traded a 2nd for the Wiz. As per Pierre Lebrun the Habs are in the Chris Phillips sweepstakes. That is likely to cost more picks.

Granted, some of these acquisitions did well for us. In the cap era it is key to consistently bring in new prospects that can perform in the NHL at low salaries. It gives affordable depth to teams with big dollars invested in their core.

Is Gauthier selling out the Habs's future by dealing too many picks (future prospects)?

Sure, when a team is a cup contender, you make deals at the deadline to put yourself over the top. We're a playoff team but I wouldn't call us elite.

edit: my bad he traded a 2nd to move up in the draft to get Tinordi.


Last edited by not quite yoda: 02-05-2011 at 10:41 PM.
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Old
02-05-2011, 09:20 PM
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PG is a putz, I hate him, but the Wiz trade was good.

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Old
02-05-2011, 09:23 PM
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Metropolitsky
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Trading D'agostoni for a prospect
Trading Halak for two prospect
Trading O'byrne for a prospect
Trading Lapierre for a prospect and a Pick


So no I don't think PG is selling the future

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02-05-2011, 09:25 PM
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BaseballCoach
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Quote:
Originally Posted by not quite yoda View Post
He traded a 2nd for Moore last year and then let him walk. He traded a 3rd to move up in the draft to get Tinordi in the 1st. He traded a 2nd for the Wiz. As per Pierre Lebrun the Habs are in the Chris Phillips sweepstakes. That is likely to cost more picks.

Granted, some of these acquisitions did well for us. In the cap era it is key to consistently bring in new prospects that can perform in the NHL at low salaries. It gives affordable depth to teams with big dollars invested in their core.

Is Gauthier selling out the Habs's future by dealing too many picks (future prospects)?

Sure, when a team is a cup contender, you make deals at the deadline to put yourself over the top. We're a playoff team but I wouldn't call us elite.

OK, but PG has also ACQUIRED young recent picks, such as Palushaj, Eller and Bournival. Even if they were drafted by others, they count as prospects, no?

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02-05-2011, 09:30 PM
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Andy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metropolitsky View Post
Trading D'agostoni for a prospect
Trading Halak for two prospect
Trading O'byrne for a prospect
Trading Lapierre for a prospect and a Pick


So no I don't think PG is selling the future
Wow. We actually have fans with some perspective...I'm ****ing shocked...and no it's not sarcastic.

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Old
02-05-2011, 09:30 PM
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I don't think we would've made it so far in the playoffs without Moore, therefore, Halak not getting to show his godlyness, therefore getting less than what we got for him. (Eller)


Yes, I am stretching it.

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Old
02-05-2011, 09:31 PM
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TheBuriedHab
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Hes not throwing away firsts, yet though. But I guess under Timmins 2nds would be more valuable lol. It does worry me abit at the amount of picks we trade away, we probably still have a couple more moves where we will trade some picks, but he is getting prospects back in other trades which is a good sign.

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Old
02-05-2011, 09:32 PM
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ruski17
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Teams don't just trade picks as an add-in. They look at the draft class and any player that could interest them. I guess by trading the 2nd pick, they felt that there was no player in the 2nd round that they felt they wanted very much. That's a shame because I would have liked Scott Harrington... Hopefully he becomes a 3rd round pick by the draft and we can get him.

Plus, the habs have many prospects in their system and they have many young players on the team: Subban, Eller, Weber, Price, Pouliot, Desharnais, Pacioretty and Pyatt are all born in 1986 or sooner.

I would rather trade some NHL ready prospects like Carle and Maxwell because we have many rookies on the team and these guys are not gonna be able to snag a spot unless there are more injuries or some players disappear for long stretches of time. Those guys can be valuable to teams re-building because they are young, talented and the right timing to play in the NHL.

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Old
02-05-2011, 09:35 PM
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AntonCH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metropolitsky View Post
Trading D'agostoni for a prospect
Trading Halak for two prospect
Trading O'byrne for a prospect
Trading Lapierre for a prospect and a Pick


So no I don't think PG is selling the future
someone had to say it before we barricaded the road leading to the mortgage brokers

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Old
02-05-2011, 09:45 PM
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llamateizer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by not quite yoda View Post
He traded a 2nd for Moore last year and then let him walk. He traded a 3rd to move up in the draft to get Tinordi in the 1st. He traded a 2nd for the Wiz. As per Pierre Lebrun the Habs are in the Chris Phillips sweepstakes. That is likely to cost more picks.

Granted, some of these acquisitions did well for us. In the cap era it is key to consistently bring in new prospects that can perform in the NHL at low salaries. It gives affordable depth to teams with big dollars invested in their core.

Is Gauthier selling out the Habs's future by dealing too many picks (future prospects)?

Sure, when a team is a cup contender, you make deals at the deadline to put yourself over the top. We're a playoff team but I wouldn't call us elite.
is trading a 2nd pick for 2-3 playoffs rounds and/or a playoffs spot?

we traded players for young prospects.

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Old
02-05-2011, 09:49 PM
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shutehinside
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Starting with Gainey and now with Gauthier, we've gotten consistently better. They should keep doing what they've been doing.

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Old
02-05-2011, 09:51 PM
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not quite yoda
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metropolitsky View Post
Trading D'agostoni for a prospect
Trading Halak for two prospect
Trading O'byrne for a prospect
Trading Lapierre for a prospect and a Pick


So no I don't think PG is selling the future
You have a point, granted.

But a 2nd and a 3rd last year (Moore + Tinordi deals) and a 2nd this year (the Wiz) would have generated one 18 and two 19 year olds: plays who would be ready say 3 or 4 years from now.

All the prospects we acquired are AHL or NHL players right now (except for Bournival).

Palushaj is a 2nd year AHLer. Festerleng is there for AHL depth (like Carle). Schultz is an AHL player. Eller has just broken in the NHL.

These are all pro players right now. The picks we are dealing would only become pros 2 or 3 years from now. Who we will be breaking into the NHL for us then?

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Old
02-05-2011, 09:53 PM
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we are in an excellent position rite now.lots of young talent an more on the way.we have flexibility which means we can lose sum draft picks.with the way our drafting has been lately i m not worried at all.

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02-05-2011, 09:56 PM
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ThaDevilGirl
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So many picks? I think PG has kept most of his picks for 2011 no?

EDIT: it seems he traded both 2nd round picks for 2011.

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Old
02-05-2011, 09:59 PM
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Mats NAslund
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Originally Posted by habsboycanada View Post
I don't think we would've made it so far in the playoffs without Moore, therefore, Halak not getting to show his godlyness, therefore getting less than what we got for him. (Eller)


Yes, I am stretching it.
Joking aside Eller is going to damn good!
Kid has size speed skill and drives to the net.....Reminds me of Pacioretty to be honest.

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Old
02-05-2011, 10:01 PM
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not quite yoda
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Originally Posted by ThaDevilGirl View Post
So many picks? I think PG has kept most of his picks for 2011 no?

EDIT: it seems he traded both 2nd round picks for 2011.
Yeah. 2nd picks are pretty valuable. and a 3rd last year. If we want Arnott or Phillips that will cost top picks too. I am not concerned about losing 5th or 6th round picks. 1st and 2nds are key and we're not keeping all of those.

Gainey kept nearly all his picks (until we traded a 1st for Tanguay) and we are reaping the benefits now.

Gauthier is moving his picks, where will our new players come from 4 years from now?

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Old
02-05-2011, 10:01 PM
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Mats NAslund
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The move to get Tinordi was a good one if you ask me.
The kid is a absolute monster and enjoys fighting

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02-05-2011, 10:09 PM
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AntonCH
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Originally Posted by Mats NAslund View Post
The move to get Tinordi was a good one if you ask me.
The kid is a absolute monster and enjoys fighting
Yup
giving up a 3rd in order to ensure that you get him is a no-brainer
In 4 years Tinordi just may be part of the foundation of our clubs defense.
Thats where you get them

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Old
02-05-2011, 10:23 PM
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The problem is not so much trading picks for players as trading picks for rentals. If PG would trade for players that he wanted back the deals would work out. As it is, considering no cups yet, the recent trades for rentals were a waste.

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Old
02-05-2011, 10:35 PM
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It's wrong to treat the move to draft Tinordi as trading away a pick. Combining lower picks to move up at the draft isn't giving away picks, it's focusing your picks into a prospect you're high on. San Jose got 2 or three picks for Toskala, then packaged them together to moved up and get Logan Couture. They didn't get rid of picks, they trade up in the draft. Leafs did the same thing to get Schenn. That's not trading picks for rentals, that's trading quantity for quality. The only way to judge it is to evaluate the prospect you ended up with. Lumping in moving up at the draft with trading a second for an impending UFA is comparing apples to oranges. One is trading the future for the present, the other is trading one group of future assets for, hopefully, a better future asset.

Nothing PG has done as GM compares remotely to trading a first AND a second for one year of Alex Tanguay. THAT'S trading away picks for short-term returns.

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Old
02-05-2011, 10:47 PM
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Blind Gardien
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It's totally case-by-case for me. I questioned the Moore trade at the time. Thought it was a tad over market value for a struggling bottom-6 forward. But Moore played well for us, and considering how narrowly we made the playoffs, and considering the great run we had thereafter, we all were thankful for the trade in the end.

Wisniewski already seems like a reasonable pickup.

I didn't like the Tinordi move-up. Like it a lot less now that I've seen Tinordi play. There will be several players picked after Tinordi who will be better players, he wasn't a guy who merited a move-up deal for. Totally subjective, of course. Maybe one day that will garner a Moore-like turnaround from me, who knows.

Anyway, Gauthier is playing. He's trying things. Draft picks are overrated around here anyway. Especially in the era of wide-open free agency and an ever-more-interesting leftover UFA scrapheap. Teams with the money to spend to the cap shouldn't have any trouble keeping the gaps filled.

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Old
02-05-2011, 10:51 PM
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Pics aren't as valuable as one would think. Although I'm opposed to him dealing away any more pics this year, due to the fact that Markov and Gorges being out hurts our chances at a "sell the farm for a cup" thing. But the point remains, pics are really risky, and most, if not all of the players acquired have done us well.

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Old
02-05-2011, 11:20 PM
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ThaDevilGirl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by not quite yoda View Post
Yeah. 2nd picks are pretty valuable. and a 3rd last year. If we want Arnott or Phillips that will cost top picks too. I am not concerned about losing 5th or 6th round picks. 1st and 2nds are key and we're not keeping all of those.

Gainey kept nearly all his picks (until we traded a 1st for Tanguay) and we are reaping the benefits now.

Gauthier is moving his picks, where will our new players come from 4 years from now?
He might be moving his picks but as others have said previously, he's been trading for prospects so it's not like he's emptying the team's prospect pool.

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Old
02-05-2011, 11:32 PM
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Habskrieg
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The trades you listed for Moore, Tinordi and wiz are well worth it. Moore was great for us for his short time here, well worth a second. Who knows why we let him walk, my guess is he wanted more. Wiz, he's the deal, imo if we sign him longer, which I hope we do, for a second, its a steal. Tinordi seems like a good prospect, don't know much about him myself, but a big physical D, I trust he's good.

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Old
02-06-2011, 12:10 AM
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deandebean
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Trading picks? If not for Moore, we DO NOT pass over the Caps, no matter what. The guy was a machine in the playoffs. To be honest, Pierre Gauthier has been a pleasant surprise. He's made some astute David Dombrowski-like moves: Eller for Halak (who's been subpar this season, no matter how you look into), Moore, Wiz... I mean, he's not the type to bring over-the-hill talent. He brings people in their prime. I love that. Bob failed in that department.

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