HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Notices

Is Gauthier right to deal so many picks?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-08-2011, 03:28 PM
  #76
Markowicz
Simple Jacques
 
Markowicz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,989
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
The O'byrne trade was more about JM not having confidence in him than PG not wanting to keep him. Same with Streit and Gainey. The GM is the GM and the coach is the coach, you can't force him to play a guy he doesn't trust so you end up moving that player.

We have traded away picks in recent years, but also have gotten good value on players that were not getting a chance here...2nd and Patteryn for Grabovsky, Bournival for O'byrne, Palushaj for D'agostini, Ramo for Desjardins, Halak for Eller and Schultz etc It's a street that goes both ways. We also added Desharnais and Nash at no cost, both should have value at the NHL level.
The reason why there is some skeptics of PG and his trades is because almost all the guys he trades away are and were NHL regulars, and the guys he got were younger, and mostly prospects. It's easier to say "Wow, O'byrne is looking good in Colorado" than saying then the same about Bournival. Or Palushaj. Or Eller. Any of these three guys could be really, really good players in the NHl one day, and the best part is that we can let them develop in the minors for a while yet. He saw, as I and probably a lot of people saw as well, that guys like O'byrne, D'agostini, SK just weren't working here. Unfortunately in the SK trade, it was a lot like the Ribeiro trade , where the players antics may have forced the GM's hand, and we probably didn't get enough because of it. But the fact is this: David Poile took a chance by trading for a headcase like SK, and it's paying off for him, so far... But wait a year, wait till Lombardi and the rest of the injured guys come back for Nashville and maybe SK gets bumped down a rung or two--things might not be so rosy over there.

The bottom line is this: every guy that PG has traded is a player that the Habs could replace immediately, and they got for the most part younger players that they can develop for the future. That's good management. Regardless of if they got good value or not, I personally think that O'byrne, D'agostini, SK or Halak would not be an upgrade on the guys that were replaced by them.

Markowicz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-08-2011, 03:28 PM
  #77
Hackett
HF Needs Feeny
 
Hackett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,266
vCash: 500
Its a catch 22.

You will see threads begging to trade for x... or any sort of move. Inevitably, this will cost you some nice draft picks or a prospects if its a commodity worth grabbing

If PG keeps the picks and does nothing, he will be blamed for being asleep at the switch. If he does something, then he's mortgaging too much of the future.

I've understood his theory behind each trade except for maybe the moore one, and now that he's traded so many tradeable picks, the real interesting thing is how he can pull off some needed deadline moves.

Hackett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-08-2011, 05:45 PM
  #78
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 30,356
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hackett View Post
Its a catch 22.

You will see threads begging to trade for x... or any sort of move. Inevitably, this will cost you some nice draft picks or a prospects if its a commodity worth grabbing

If PG keeps the picks and does nothing, he will be blamed for being asleep at the switch. If he does something, then he's mortgaging too much of the future.

I've understood his theory behind each trade except for maybe the moore one, and now that he's traded so many tradeable picks, the real interesting thing is how he can pull off some needed deadline moves.
I think so far he has a chieved a pretty good balance of trading for the present and future in his deals. The players brought in for O'byrne Halak Lapierre etc help offset the loesses to add Moore Wisniewski and others(am I forgetting any?).

Monctonscout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2011, 02:18 PM
  #79
AlexGalchenyuk94
NHL Managerial Guru
 
AlexGalchenyuk94's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Central Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 223
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WestIslander View Post
Kaberle for a 1st round draft pick and Weber made me laugh!

If you give either a 1st round draft pick or Weber for Kaberle (one or the other) Burke would be jumping for joy!

Kaberle is not worth a 1st round draft pick and nor will Burke get that for him.

If anything:

To Toronto: Andrei Kostitsyn
To Montreal: Tomas Kaberle
Told ya so. Not only did he get a 1st, he also got a 6'5 centre prospect who was a 1st rounder, and a conditional 2nd round pick.

AlexGalchenyuk94 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2011, 02:25 PM
  #80
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 30,356
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PKSubban View Post
Told ya so. Not only did he get a 1st, he also got a 6'5 centre prospect who was a 1st rounder, and a conditional 2nd round pick.
Colborne is probably worth a 2nd rounder at this point.

Boston overpaid a bit for Kaberle, but they feel like it's their time and they still have depth up front and Toronto's 1st.

Monctonscout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2011, 02:38 PM
  #81
Jedrik
Registered User
 
Jedrik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,819
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Colborne is probably worth a 2nd rounder at this point.

Boston overpaid a bit for Kaberle, but they feel like it's their time and they still have depth up front and Toronto's 1st.
Oh s%** wait -- I was under the impression that TO got back their 1st, but they got Boston's? Wow, that makes me fell better already.

Jedrik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2011, 02:46 PM
  #82
AlexGalchenyuk94
NHL Managerial Guru
 
AlexGalchenyuk94's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Central Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 223
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Colborne is probably worth a 2nd rounder at this point.

Boston overpaid a bit for Kaberle, but they feel like it's their time and they still have depth up front and Toronto's 1st.
Possibly, but you can't teach size and there has been many star players who didn't have great first years in the A.

AlexGalchenyuk94 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2011, 03:01 PM
  #83
NewGuy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,702
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PKSubban View Post
Possibly, but you can't teach size and there has been many star players who didn't have great first years in the A.
There's been many more nobodies who have done that too.

NewGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2011, 03:08 PM
  #84
AlexGalchenyuk94
NHL Managerial Guru
 
AlexGalchenyuk94's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Central Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 223
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewGuy View Post
There's been many more nobodies who have done that too.
Agreed. I'm just saying it's unfair to label Colborne as a second rounder already.

AlexGalchenyuk94 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2011, 03:14 PM
  #85
NewGuy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,702
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PKSubban View Post
Agreed. I'm just saying it's unfair to label Colborne as a second rounder already.
Most players who are going to be stars in the NHL start off great in the AHL and don't stay there very long.

NewGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2011, 03:23 PM
  #86
SergeiKost99
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: canada
Country: Syria
Posts: 733
vCash: 500
what is the website that shows the draft picks each team has for this year? Thanks

SergeiKost99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2011, 07:50 AM
  #87
Chili
Registered User
 
Chili's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: la Belle Province
Country: Antarctica
Posts: 1,952
vCash: 500
Very interesting to compare how different organizations go about business.

Teams like Buffalo, Detroit, Jersey have built their teams through their system. High priority is placed on development.

Some teams like the Hawks, Kings, Nashville always seem to have a cache of draft picks and are consistently able to find replacements from within.

Flyers trade their high picks consistently but seldom for rent a players. They acquire guys who will be with them for years.

For all teams though, draft picks are important. Pens traded a bunch of them for rent a players, consequently have not had many recent prospects join the lineup.

Not crazy about the Habs recent asset management.

They left themselves without much depth on the blueline this year, consequently they have had to deal picks to fill holes.

They had drafted guys like Fischer and McDonagh to hopefully fill holes going forward, now they're gone. To me, they missed an opportunity last summer in not getting back a dman in the Halak deal.

Really interested to see what the Habs blueline will look like next year. That includes the guys in Hamilton. The organizational depth on the blueline going forward right now looks weak, in my opinion, even if they sign the guys they want to bring back this summer.

Chili is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2011, 07:55 AM
  #88
Chili
Registered User
 
Chili's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: la Belle Province
Country: Antarctica
Posts: 1,952
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SergeiKost99 View Post
what is the website that shows the draft picks each team has for this year? Thanks

The traded picks are at this link.

Chili is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2011, 07:58 AM
  #89
HomaridII
Registered User
 
HomaridII's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Montreal, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,761
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SergeiKost99 View Post
what is the website that shows the draft picks each team has for this year? Thanks
http://www.prosportstransactions.com.../Canadiens.htm

I find this site helpful.

HomaridII is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2011, 08:03 AM
  #90
Whitesnake
Habs of steel
 
Whitesnake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Lorraine, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 46,971
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chili View Post
Flyers trade their high picks consistently but seldom for rent a players. They acquire guys who will be with them for years.
Add the fact that 3 of their most important players are coming from the draft in Giroux, Carter and Richards. And we're not talking about top 10 picks.

Problem is that rarely would the Habs be THE team to play in as a UFA if you're not going to overpay. Mind you, UFA time is overpay time....but more in Montreal. Which then comes to the conclusion that this is not how the Habs will become a superior team.

People are mistaking superior team and superior year....Did the Oilers became a great team when they reached the Finals...or could it be considered as a fluke? You think that some would believe we suddenly belongs with the best based on the fact that we've reached the 3rd round last year.

Fortunately for the Habs management, they will be able to surf onto the next year based on the fact that the press conference is already written for this year. I personnally just hope that they don't take it for granted and address some problems.

But clearly what the majority in here thinks that it is a problem, the management don't see it that way. History will tell if they were right. Crucial summer this year, rebuilding a whole defense can't be easy to do. Having to deal with forwards who are not delivering and are paid too much either....

Whitesnake is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2011, 08:04 AM
  #91
coolasprICE
Registered User
 
coolasprICE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,394
vCash: 500
Gauthier is a tool and I sincerely hate him

coolasprICE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2011, 08:12 AM
  #92
Evil Ted
Registered User
 
Evil Ted's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,650
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
Gauthier is a tool and I sincerely hate him
You should pick a new team to follow if you dislike the habs this much you would be doing yourself and us a HUGE favor by doing so.

Evil Ted is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2011, 08:20 AM
  #93
Chili
Registered User
 
Chili's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: la Belle Province
Country: Antarctica
Posts: 1,952
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Add the fact that 3 of their most important players are coming from the draft in Giroux, Carter and Richards. And we're not talking about top 10 picks.
.
Remember this time last year when every talking head was telling us thae Flyers had to deal for a goaltender? They didn't and made the finals.

Then they went out and signed a good one in Bobrosky.

I like teams that are agressive beyond the draft.

The Leafs have added alot of prospects in the last two years beyond the draft (Bozak, Hanson, Gustafsson, Rynnas, Scrivens, Mueller, etc.)

Like you said Habs are not a prime target for free agents, so being agressive outside of the draft should be a priority in my opinion.

Desharnais, Nash and Engqvist weren't drafted so the Habs are signing a few undrafted types.

If they are going to trade their picks, more reason to be very agressive scouting and signing top undrafted free agents.

Chili is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2011, 08:23 AM
  #94
coolasprICE
Registered User
 
coolasprICE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,394
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Ted View Post
You should pick a new team to follow if you dislike the habs this much you would be doing yourself and us a HUGE favor by doing so.
because I don't like Gauthier, Gomez and the path this team is on I should follow a new team because Evil Ted told me so?

I have a few words for you that I'll be kind enough to not share.

coolasprICE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2011, 09:16 AM
  #95
Ozymandias
#firetherrien
 
Ozymandias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Hockey Mecca
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,441
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chili View Post
Very interesting to compare how different organizations go about business.

Teams like Buffalo, Detroit, Jersey have built their teams through their system. High priority is placed on development.

Some teams like the Hawks, Kings, Nashville always seem to have a cache of draft picks and are consistently able to find replacements from within.

Flyers trade their high picks consistently but seldom for rent a players. They acquire guys who will be with them for years.

For all teams though, draft picks are important. Pens traded a bunch of them for rent a players, consequently have not had many recent prospects join the lineup.

Not crazy about the Habs recent asset management.

They left themselves without much depth on the blueline this year, consequently they have had to deal picks to fill holes.

They had drafted guys like Fischer and McDonagh to hopefully fill holes going forward, now they're gone. To me, they missed an opportunity last summer in not getting back a dman in the Halak deal.

Really interested to see what the Habs blueline will look like next year. That includes the guys in Hamilton. The organizational depth on the blueline going forward right now looks weak, in my opinion, even if they sign the guys they want to bring back this summer.
A defense that has Markov and Gorges missing most of the season....

Any team would look without depth once two of their best Dmen are out for the season.

What age are you????

Take out Pronger and Coburn from the Flyers for the rest of the season, and surely, their D's depth will then look awful.

We've just added one the future best Dman in this league with our drafting. Habs is still among the 10 best defense in the league without Markov and Gorges.

The level of realism has really gone down around here.

Ozymandias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2011, 09:31 AM
  #96
bsl
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,023
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedrik View Post
Oh s%** wait -- I was under the impression that TO got back their 1st, but they got Boston's? Wow, that makes me fell better already.
When will some people get it? How in hell do you feel better now that the facking Leafs just made Boston stronger again? You idiot. Seriously. I know I'm not supposed to do that on the boards, but you're an idiot. OK , you are not an idiot, but your post was idiotic.

Who gives a Fack about the leafs? I have not worried about them for the last 40 years.

But Burke just keeps making Boston stronger and stronger. It's driving me mental. Dealing Kaberle to them pretty much guarantees That the Laffs end up in the bottom 5 in conference you dumb fack.

Therefore the B's just got Kaberle for a playoff run, and much more importantly, due to Kaberle not helping the Laffs, Broons will likely pick top 8 next year. Burke is a big facking buffoon idiot. He's not only killing the Leafs, but the Habs, Sens and Sabres too by continually strengthening an already super strong Boston squad.For Facking years to come.

I could not Facking believe Burke just dealt with the Bruins again. Un facking real.

FACK!

bsl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2011, 09:39 AM
  #97
Ozymandias
#firetherrien
 
Ozymandias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Hockey Mecca
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,441
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsl View Post
When will some people get it? How in hell do you feel better now that the facking Leafs just made Boston stronger again? You idiot. Seriously. I know I'm not supposed to do that on the boards, but you're an idiot. OK , you are not an idiot, but your post was idiotic.

Who gives a Fack about the leafs? I have not worried about them for the last 40 years.

But Burke just keeps making Boston stronger and stronger. It's driving me mental. Dealing Kaberle to them pretty much guarantees That the Laffs end up in the bottom 5 in conference you dumb fack.

Therefore the B's just got Kaberle for a playoff run, and much more importantly, due to Kaberle not helping the Laffs, Broons will likely pick top 8 next year. Burke is a big facking buffoon idiot. He's not only killing the Leafs, but the Habs, Sens and Sabres too by continually strengthening an already super strong Boston squad.For Facking years to come.

I could not Facking believe Burke just dealt with the Bruins again. Un facking real.

FACK!
It's not surprising, TO and Burke have an unhealthy hate of everything bleu-blanc-rouge, so it makes a lot of sense.

Ozymandias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2011, 09:45 AM
  #98
Habs
Registered User
 
Habs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,194
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
Gauthier is a tool and I sincerely hate him
I got your back on this one.

Habs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2011, 09:49 AM
  #99
bsl
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,023
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
It's not surprising, TO and Burke have an unhealthy hate of everything bleu-blanc-rouge, so it makes a lot of sense.
Could be...and another thing. It was implied in my ranting post above, but I'll make it clear:

The goal is to win your facking division. How facking hard is that to figure out Burke you dumb fack?

Thus: Do nothing that might in the least strengthen a team in your division. Facking duh.

In the NHL set up now, you're top 3 if you win your division, thus ending up top 3 seed, meaning you may just get a really good playoff run out of it, and even luck into a SCF against a tired team from the west.

Christ, it's elementary. Do not deal in your division, and do everything possible to win in your division.


Last edited by bsl: 02-19-2011 at 09:55 AM.
bsl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2011, 10:04 AM
  #100
guest1467
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 24,824
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
A defense that has Markov and Gorges missing most of the season....

Any team would look without depth once two of their best Dmen are out for the season.

What age are you????

Take out Pronger and Coburn from the Flyers for the rest of the season, and surely, their D's depth will then look awful.

We've just added one the future best Dman in this league with our drafting. Habs is still among the 10 best defense in the league without Markov and Gorges.

The level of realism has really gone down around here.
It really is ridiculous. Our defensive depth after the OB trade:

Markov
Gorges
Spacek
Hamrlik
Gill
Subban
Picard
Weber

Easily one of the deepest corps in the league, not to mention they acquired Wiz as well. It and goaltending are easily our biggest strengths.

guest1467 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:17 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.