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2010-2011 Prospect Talk Part II

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Old
03-14-2011, 08:01 PM
  #351
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brain Hemorrhage View Post
My God - it's like you don't like listening to people.

I remember the interviews when the Islanders drafted De Haan. People praised his hockey sense and how rare it was he made mistakes.

Rather than rant on here over and over again, go mow somebody's lawn for $20 and then buy some OHL archived games. The problem seems to be that you have not watched the OHL. So watch it and then tell us why you think, based on watching Calvin play (a novel concept), why you think we punted a pooch.

P.S. Nick Leddy, who the Wild took in exchange for pick #12 at #16, is not exactly setting the NCAA on fire.
Thats because he is playing in the NHL

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Old
03-14-2011, 08:09 PM
  #352
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Well, you got me. I didn't realize that.

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03-14-2011, 08:46 PM
  #353
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Height View Post
Ness was close to signing last year but decided to go back for another year, I think it is almost a sure thing he signs when his season ends.


Hey DH-

Nothing against you at all, but I just don't believe anything until it's official. Whether or now Ness was "close to signing," the fact is he didn't and isn't.

If we went on how "close" things came or things that "should" happen, then the Lighthouse would have been built by now.

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Old
03-14-2011, 09:15 PM
  #354
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I heard that Ness is done with his degree after this semester. If so I wouldn't blame the kid at all for wanting to leave. I think he has too much talent to not give him an ELC.

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03-14-2011, 09:33 PM
  #355
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Originally Posted by ps527 View Post
I heard that Ness is done with his degree after this semester. If so I wouldn't blame the kid at all for wanting to leave. I think he has too much talent to not give him an ELC.
Degree????

You mean these kids really go to school??

I thought 'college' was code for 'minor league affiliate'......

Oh, sorry..... that's the NBA.....

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Old
03-14-2011, 09:37 PM
  #356
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Looks like the sources about Ness are true.

@CHNDanMyers

Early departures have begun! @hammyhockey: To those emailing, yes... Aaron Ness is leaving. Heard from 3 good sources now.

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03-14-2011, 09:41 PM
  #357
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Botta must read these boards.

Check out Botta's latest video w/ Oshawa's GM/head coach.

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Old
03-14-2011, 10:02 PM
  #358
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To anyone who actually thinks the Isles won't sign players like Ness or Trivino: what are you smoking? Have you seen what kind of season the Tigers have had? Here's a hint:

meow...

If you were talking about players like Day, you wouldn't get an argument...Ness and Trivino are still developing.

It's the Petrov's of the world who are ready for the show.


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Old
03-14-2011, 10:33 PM
  #359
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluechipbonzo View Post
To anyone who actually thinks the Isles won't sign players like Ness or Trivino: what are you smoking? Have you seen what kind of season the Tigers have had? Here's a hint:

meow...

If you were talking about players like Day, you wouldn't get an argument...Ness and Trivino are still developing.

It's the Petrov's of the world who are ready for the show.

Haha, always something with Petrov!

Signing Ness is a good move, the kid does have talent and he would definitely help our sad, sad Bridgeport team. Maybe spending 2 years in the AHL learning a different system that should enhance his natural gifts better might get him a cup of coffee with the big club. If you remember, he was very highly rated in his draft year and some publications were projecting him to go in the first round. I haven't really seen him play, but he is supposed to be a really sick skater. I remember watching video of him in HS and this kid could seriously fly.

There's also the option of being converted to a forward, but that's a very slim chance. Might minimize his lack of size and further enhance his skating abilities. If he is indeed signed, I think the chances of us drafting Ryan Murphy goes way down.

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Old
03-15-2011, 12:37 AM
  #360
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http://whl.ca/article/nino-niederrei...er-of-the-week

Niederreiter and Johansen have been red hot lately. Can't wait to see what they do in the playoffs.

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Old
03-15-2011, 06:04 AM
  #361
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt View Post
Happily.

More than five goals in your third OHL season. He had 8 his first season.

A +/- somewhere in the +45 and upwards range. He's got a +17 now for a team that has what, 16 more wins than losses.

His assists are maybe acceptable for some, but will not top his rookie season - not even close. This is the case despite the fact that he's working with 6 guys with 21-54 goals.

Unfortunately the OHL stat site is not working, because I'd be real curious right now about Oshawa's and de Haan's PP proficiency.

His WJC play was inconspicuous and I highly suspect - as his numbers to date point out - that this is also the case in the OHL. He's simply a 'quietly effective' defensiveman.

That would be an explaination as to why at least one poster here likens him to Jonsson.

Is that good? Perhaps. That sure as heck ain't dominating.
I guess we're not going to see eye to eye on this, because personally, I think posting numbers that are top 4 in your league for your position as being pretty dominant from a pure statistical basis. On top of that, I feel being voted by the coaches of your league as among the five best offensive players at your position in your league also would be fairly indicative of being a dominant offensive guy.

If you disagree that's fine. But frankly, in the past decade, I can't think of a single OHL Dman who has put up around 10+ goals, notably more than .8 assists per game and was over a +45. If there is one, I'm going to guess he was either a) drafted top 5 or b) was never predicted at his draft to develop that well. So, I do think that your expectations to even just be satisfied with his development are kind of over the top and arbitrary expectations for a guy who was never projected to be the next Paul Coffey.

Quote:
He's not the gamebreaking type. He's not the draw you out of your seat type. He's not the coast-to-coast type.

In general, I'd say his overall 'danger' from the blueline is simply not what I think it was believed it would be. I do not believe it is what Snow 'n co. felt it would be.

I'm curious as to why a few people here have felt it necessary to provide me with so many responses because I expected more of him to date in light of how he was touted and how he was obtained. As fans, I think we should all be a bit disappointed to date. We were led to believe this kid would be ultra, ultra special.

Welp, now we're forced to hope that'll first be the case at the pro level.
I guess I just don't see not being a coast to coast type as being a bad thing. In fact, I see it as rather a good thing. You give me the choice between a guy like Suter who will quietly eat up 25+ minutes of mistake free hockey while putting up very solid numbers and a guy like Mike Green who will bring you out of your seat with exciting rushes and big numbers but also has his gaffs... Well, I'll take Suter every time. And I'm saying that as someone who thinks on these boards Green is pretty underrated.

And personally, I think a guy like Suter is more of a gamebreaker than Green. It's a completely different way of breaking the game, but overall I find it more consistent and effective. Suter can consistently control the play from the back end and make the smart plays that won't necessarily turn into goals, but definitely won't turn into goals against.

Also, I don't recall De Haan ever being touted as the next elite offensive dman. I remember him being touted as a skilled puckmover with a super intelligent 2way game. I've always seen him more as becoming something like what Andy MacDonald projects as, and if he does I have no problem with what we gave up to acquire him. Of course, I'd prefer that we found him in the 6th round too, but if someone offered me picks #26, 37, 56 and 181 for MacDonald I'd probably hang up pretty quick.

Don't get me wrong, I don't know that De Haan will turn into a Suter or MacDonald, I'm just using these two as examples to illustrate a point. Because if he did turn into either, or somewhere in between the two, I'd be thrilled. If that would disappoint you, I honestly don't think I'll ever understand that.

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Old
03-15-2011, 07:55 AM
  #362
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My 2 cents on de Haan: I don't think he was ever advertised as being a dynamic d-man. I recall the word being that he was really smart, good positionally, and a good puck-mover. I pictured him (still do) as being the kind of guy who gets the puck in the defensive zone and makes a smart play (a pass more than a rush) to start the play in the other direction. A smart, good-skating defenseman who can make the transition is about as valuable an asset as you can have on the ice (right up there with a playmaking center who can play on the top 2 lines AND shut down the other team's top lines). I'm not making a comparison between the players, but isn't Lidstrom that kind of defenseman? Not dynamic, just effective.

Also, some guys can't translate juniors point production to the NHL. Others can. I think a smart guy who can pick apart another team with passes is more likely to translate production than a guy who gets points off a big shot or one on one rushes.

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Old
03-15-2011, 07:58 AM
  #363
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Just to be sure, am I right in assuming that the Islanders have to sign Casey Cizikas, Brian Day, Shane Sims and Anders Nilsson this summer? (I bolded the ones I expect/hope will be signed).

Am I forgetting someone?

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Old
03-15-2011, 08:01 AM
  #364
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikkel View Post
Just to be sure, am I right in assuming that the Islanders have to sign Casey Cizikas, Brian Day, Shane Sims and Anders Nilsson this summer? (I bolded the ones I expect/hope will be signed).

Am I forgetting someone?
You're not forgetting anyone, Dehart technically doesn't have to be signed until 2012, so he can play on an AHL contract for next season and we will see if he's worth it come a year from now.

I really hope Sims is signed, but with Ness on the verge of being signed that may hurt his chance.

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03-15-2011, 08:27 AM
  #365
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I dont understand with all the scrubs we have playing in the AHL how 50 contracts is a concern for the Isles.'


Edit: Checking out CapGeek. Isles have a lot of UFAs and RFA heading into this offseason so there really shouldn't be any concern. Only contract thats a problem is Tony Romano.

http://capgeek.com/charts.php?Team=21


Last edited by Macch: 03-15-2011 at 08:36 AM.
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Old
03-15-2011, 09:09 AM
  #366
Chapin Landvogt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BelovedIsles View Post
Botta must read these boards.

Check out Botta's latest video w/ Oshawa's GM/head coach.
Ya, when I saw that, I thought the same thing.

Just gave it a listen to.

I'm glad to hear it all. It's actually pretty much exactly what I expected to hear from the coach, but glad to hear it anyways.

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Old
03-15-2011, 09:14 AM
  #367
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Sorry if this has been asked a lot, but I did scan back quite a few pages and didnt see anything, but what's the realistic chances of Petrov playing on Long Island next season?

I see he's the #2 rated Russian player on HF's ranking article up top and they declare him pretty much NHL ready at this point.

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Old
03-15-2011, 09:18 AM
  #368
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brain Hemorrhage View Post
My God - it's like you don't like listening to people.

I remember the interviews when the Islanders drafted De Haan. People praised his hockey sense and how rare it was he made mistakes.

Rather than rant on here over and over again, go mow somebody's lawn for $20 and then buy some OHL archived games. The problem seems to be that you have not watched the OHL. So watch it and then tell us why you think, based on watching Calvin play (a novel concept), why you think we punted a pooch.
Just got done mowing the lawn - 30$ with tip!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seph View Post
If you disagree that's fine. But frankly, in the past decade, I can't think of a single OHL Dman who has put up around 10+ goals, notably more than .8 assists per game and was over a +45. If there is one, I'm going to guess he was either a) drafted top 5 or b) was never predicted at his draft to develop that well. So, I do think that your expectations to even just be satisfied with his development are kind of over the top and arbitrary expectations for a guy who was never projected to be the next Paul Coffey.
The bolded is very possible. It goes back to the asset management topic. I personally, simply want MORE proof that he was worth doing, what Snow felt was worth giving up to get him.

Murphy or Ellis-esque numbers would have quieted me quite a bit. I know folks are saying "he's real good; just not that type of good. His strengths lie elsewhere". I feel the team took him with the belief that his hockey sense and on-ice vision would lead to gaudy, a man-amongst-boys stats and 3 zone dominance.

That that hasn't been the case is, lastly, OK. He's still looking like he'll be an NHLer in some helpful capacity.

I just hope he plays a good role in helping our team be a consistent winner... finally... again.

Quote:
I guess I just don't see not being a coast to coast type as being a bad thing. In fact, I see it as rather a good thing. You give me the choice between a guy like Suter who will quietly eat up 25+ minutes of mistake free hockey while putting up very solid numbers and a guy like Mike Green who will bring you out of your seat with exciting rushes and big numbers but also has his gaffs... Well, I'll take Suter every time. And I'm saying that as someone who thinks on these boards Green is pretty underrated.
You and me both, especially this season.

Then again... you give me the mistake-prone 70 point version of Green, and I'll simply give him the 'green' light and spend all my time trying to turn the other 5-8 Dmen into more defensively conscious guys. Green comes when we need the points, sits when we need to protect them.

Quote:
I remember him being touted as a skilled puckmover with a super intelligent 2way game. I've always seen him more as becoming something like what Andy MacDonald projects as, and if he does I have no problem with what we gave up to acquire him. Of course, I'd prefer that we found him in the 6th round too, but if someone offered me picks #26, 37, 56 and 181 for MacDonald I'd probably hang up pretty quick.
!Exactemente!

!Gracias!

Quote:
Don't get me wrong, I don't know that De Haan will turn into a Suter or MacDonald, I'm just using these two as examples to illustrate a point. Because if he did turn into either, or somewhere in between the two, I'd be thrilled. If that would disappoint you, I honestly don't think I'll ever understand that.
I think you're very right in using these two guys as examples of what de Haan is looking like he'll become.

It won't disappointment me, especially if we're winning.

It'd surely never counter my belief, that Snow 'n co. gave up an excessive amount to secure him as a property.

At this very moment, as a fan, when taking the past two drafts into consideration, I tend to have more fear than hope about what this Islander team will do this June.

08 really had me believing in them. Tavares paired with Nilsson (in the aftermath), Cizikas and Lee saved the 09 draft in my eyes and the wherewithall of the 10 draft still boggles my mind. Then Janks was fired and I dunno what that's actually gonna mean for this summer.

Anyhoooooo, the good news: I'm de Haaned out now....

Here's just hoping he has a big playoffs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by IceAce View Post
Sorry if this has been asked a lot, but I did scan back quite a few pages and didnt see anything, but what's the realistic chances of Petrov playing on Long Island next season?

I see he's the #2 rated Russian player on HF's ranking article up top and they declare him pretty much NHL ready at this point.
Situation:
He should still have one more season on his KHL contract. They said he had 4 in the summer he was drafted. This was his third season since then. Snow recently said he still has two on his contract. Maybe I'm missing something?

In any case, the CBA does NOT allow us to contribute towards buying out his contract there. If he wants to come over prematurely, he must, himself, wiggle his way out of that contract. It will likely lead to a financial loss on his behalf. In addition, he's doing better financially there than he would if and when he signs his ELC.

It's entirely up to him to make sacrifices to come here this summer, or to play another KHL season and then come over on an ELC for the 12/13 season.

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Old
03-15-2011, 09:46 AM
  #369
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Who has to be signed this year?

These are the ones I can think of:

Casey Cizikas (no brainer)
Shane Sims (I know nothing about him)
David Toews (maybe)

And any of Ness, Gregoire, Kessel that leave school early.

Are there any others? If not, I don't think the 50 contract limit will be a big deal. According to CapGeek.com we are at 48 contracts. We have a few spots opening up (Lawson, Hilbert, Weight, Martin, Yablonksi) and there are a few RFAs that I would boot in order to give Ness a shot (Figren, Hisey, Reese, Gervais). Assuming we sign 2-3 players for the Isles, and that we want to leave 2-3 spots open to add players later, that still leaves us with plenty of room for Ness.

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Old
03-15-2011, 09:52 AM
  #370
Chapin Landvogt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kasper11 View Post
Who has to be signed this year?

These are the ones I can think of:

Casey Cizikas (no brainer)
Shane Sims (I know nothing about him)
David Toews (maybe)

And any of Ness, Gregoire, Kessel that leave school early.

Are there any others? If not, I don't think the 50 contract limit will be a big deal. According to CapGeek.com we are at 48 contracts. We have a few spots opening up (Lawson, Hilbert, Weight, Martin, Yablonksi) and there are a few RFAs that I would boot in order to give Ness a shot (Figren, Hisey, Reese, Gervais). Assuming we sign 2-3 players for the Isles, and that we want to leave 2-3 spots open to add players later, that still leaves us with plenty of room for Ness.
Some discussion above...

And
http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=31644415&postcount=3

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03-15-2011, 01:23 PM
  #371
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Hey guys I apoligize if this isn't the correct thread to ask this question but i kinda figured it was. Just wondering about the 9 game tryout. Can Nino play another 9 games next season and still be sent back to Portland? Does the try out work again being he can't be sent to the AHL next season or is it once he's played a total of 10 NHL games he's no longer able to go back to junoirs? Thanks for the help and again if I should have just started a seperate thread instead of asking here I apoligize.

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03-15-2011, 01:51 PM
  #372
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Per Point blank and Botta : Ness Leaving school!
Who knows if the ISles will sign him.

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03-15-2011, 01:58 PM
  #373
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Quote:
Originally Posted by okie21 View Post
Hey guys I apoligize if this isn't the correct thread to ask this question but i kinda figured it was. Just wondering about the 9 game tryout. Can Nino play another 9 games next season and still be sent back to Portland? Does the try out work again being he can't be sent to the AHL next season or is it once he's played a total of 10 NHL games he's no longer able to go back to junoirs? Thanks for the help and again if I should have just started a seperate thread instead of asking here I apoligize.
yes, because of the current agreement between the chl and nhl regarding players under 20.

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Old
03-15-2011, 05:10 PM
  #374
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For those worried about de Haan's stats, what was given up to draft him etc. consider this: Snow and his scouting staff was so sure that Calvin could be an effective, career NHL player that they chased him. End of story.

Garth himself has admitted the draft is a crapshoot- but when you are that sure about a player, you chase him down.

Two years later, de Haan is looking more and more like Snow was right.

I suppose if you didn't like the pick there is still a little more time to get a few shots in and raise the spectre of doubt.

You know, since it's kinda hard to do that anymore with the Bailey-Filatov call...


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Old
03-15-2011, 06:03 PM
  #375
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluechipbonzo View Post
For those worried about de Haan's stats, what was given up to draft him etc. consider this: Snow and his scouting staff was so sure that Calvin could be an effective, career NHL player that they chased him. End of story.

Garth himself has admitted the draft is a crapshoot- but when you are that sure about a player, you chase him down.

Two years later, de Haan is looking more and more like Snow was right.

I suppose if you didn't like the pick there is still a little more time to get a few shots in and raise the spectre of doubt.

You know, since it's kinda hard to do that anymore with the Bailey-Filatov call...

Calvin de Haan is going to be a very good defenseman in the NHL. Let him get a little stronger and learn the pro game in Bridgeport next year before he takes his place on our blue line in 2013. From the little I've seen of him, limited to the last two WJC's, this kid is cool as ice. No panic in his game which makes him look really smooth out of there. He'll probably be in the first pairing in Bridgeport by the end of next season.

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