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2010-2011 Prospect Talk Part II

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Old
03-05-2011, 07:39 PM
  #201
PWJunior
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Originally Posted by Brain Hemorrhage View Post
BTW, the game before KK's 2 goal + shootout game, he basically set-up Chaput with a centering feed and the goalie stopped Chaput's first shot. Chaput got the rebound and scored. And KK's +/- ain't too shabby either.
Looks like KK had another 2 assists in today's game against PEI. Looks as though he's starting to turn it up a bit.

Do you get a chance to see any of his games Hemorrhage? I'm curious as to what kind of ice time he's been getting and if he's seeing time on any of the top lines, PP, PK? Basically, how's he doing other than the stat sheet?

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03-05-2011, 08:25 PM
  #202
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Koskinen gave up 8 goals tonight. Yuk!

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03-05-2011, 08:35 PM
  #203
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I bought tickets to see Lewiston, but KK was out sick, so I gave it to a friend who lives outside Boston but grew up in Maine. At present my budget for hockey this year is max'd out, so I have no plans to watch any more live games except the upcoming Hockey East finals.

Brodeur with another goal tonight as well - hope we pick him up.

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03-05-2011, 09:13 PM
  #204
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Just looking up college stats

http://www.collegehockeystats.net/10...s/mmtundk1.m05

Gregoire 3G, 1A
Nelson 2G

(should be pointed out they won 11-2)

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03-05-2011, 09:44 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by Isles Enforcer View Post
Koskinen gave up 8 goals tonight. Yuk!
They played with 5 D tonight, 2 of which are lower than AHL level guys that they recently signed so i am not sure how much help he is getting.

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03-05-2011, 10:05 PM
  #206
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They played with 5 D tonight, 2 of which are lower than AHL level guys that they recently signed so i am not sure how much help he is getting.
At this point we should not count on Koskinen being a legit prospect. If he comes back around it is a bonus but the team should "write him off" and focus on Poulin and Nilsson. You need to accept what you have in a player and move on (if only we could with DP )

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03-05-2011, 11:20 PM
  #207
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It's really great to see Nino pick up his play, he's been on quite a roll lately. It's also nice that he's on a powerhouse Portland team surrounded by some really great talent.

He's definitely going to be an interesting case next year. He's still only 18 years old and I'm not 100% sure that he's going to be ready for the NHL next year. He's going to be in that 'tweener' stage because of his age, not very different from Brayden Schenn this year. Too good for Juniors, but not totally ready for a top 6 role on the big club.

If he were to play another year in Portland, he would absolutely dominate and I would personally like to see that. Let him over ripen and then assume a regular role on the Isles in 2013 - basically be treated the way Bailey should have been back in 2008. Nino would be best served playing a year in the AHL, but that is obviously not a possibility. He is looking real solid though. I think he was ranked #6 in the THN Future Watch list.

God to I love intelligent posts. I love the "over-ripe" concept when it comes to prospects, but with Nino's character, I'm truly not even worried about when we bring him up. He has the size and moxie to play right now. If there's a reason to keep him in junior one more season it's just to gain an extra year on his ELC.

While I so want to see him on Tavares' wing, whatever the coaching staff/Snow decides, I'll support. I just hope that coaching staff isn't presently employed with the Isles.

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Originally Posted by Isles Enforcer View Post
Koskinen gave up 8 goals tonight. Yuk!

I wasn't a fan of the pick when we made it and I haven't seen ANYTHING that leads me to believe that Koskinen is an NHL goalie. Still support him because he's an Islander, but this pick is looking more bust than anything else.

Such a shame since there were good prospects on the board when he was taken and we still got Nilsson later who I think has a better shot.

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03-06-2011, 12:04 AM
  #208
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don't look now, but Gregoire is simply on fire.

3 goals and 1 assist today in an 11-2 romp over Michigan Tech. He now has 21 goals and 37 pts in 30 games. He has 15 goals in his last 13 games, since coming back from injury!

Wow.

Brock Nelson also with 2 more goals.
Wowzas.

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03-06-2011, 02:57 AM
  #209
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It's really great to see Nino pick up his play, he's been on quite a roll lately. It's also nice that he's on a powerhouse Portland team surrounded by some really great talent.

He's definitely going to be an interesting case next year. He's still only 18 years old and I'm not 100% sure that he's going to be ready for the NHL next year. He's going to be in that 'tweener' stage because of his age, not very different from Brayden Schenn this year. Too good for Juniors, but not totally ready for a top 6 role on the big club.

If he were to play another year in Portland, he would absolutely dominate and I would personally like to see that. Let him over ripen and then assume a regular role on the Isles in 2013 - basically be treated the way Bailey should have been back in 2008. Nino would be best served playing a year in the AHL, but that is obviously not a possibility. He is looking real solid though. I think he was ranked #6 in the THN Future Watch list.
Whats also great about him is that if im not mistaken i saw an interview his coach gave not to long ago that he can play both wings and is actually a natural RW which i think would be perfect for Baileys or even better JT's line

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03-06-2011, 04:41 AM
  #210
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Originally Posted by periferal View Post
I wasn't a fan of the pick when we made it and I haven't seen ANYTHING that leads me to believe that Koskinen is an NHL goalie. Still support him because he's an Islander, but this pick is looking more bust than anything else.

Such a shame since there were good prospects on the board when he was taken and we still got Nilsson later who I think has a better shot.
I too was pretty annoyed with the pick at the time simply because he was taken way higher than he should have. Most agencies had him ranked late 2nd/early 3rd, and I still believe the Isles made a huge mistake taking him at 31.

That being said, being goalie for Bport is certainly one of the least desireable jobs in hockey at the moment, playing behind an ECHL defense and a depleted roster that gets weaker as more guys are called up. I wouldn't really judge him on the back of this season except that he is nowhere near NHL standard yet.

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Old
03-06-2011, 07:16 AM
  #211
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I too was pretty annoyed with the pick at the time simply because he was taken way higher than he should have. Most agencies had him ranked late 2nd/early 3rd, and I still believe the Isles made a huge mistake taking him at 31.

That being said, being goalie for Bport is certainly one of the least desireable jobs in hockey at the moment, playing behind an ECHL defense and a depleted roster that gets weaker as more guys are called up. I wouldn't really judge him on the back of this season except that he is nowhere near NHL standard yet.
Koskinen was getting hyped up big time prior to the draft, so it was understandable why the Isles jumped on the pick. Back then Poulin was playing uninspired, Ridderwall was ok, so we had no future star goalie prospect at that time.

I would have preferred Ferraro's kid, but I was not that unhappy with the Koskinen pick.

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03-06-2011, 08:06 AM
  #212
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Originally Posted by Bourne Again View Post
Koskinen was getting hyped up big time prior to the draft, so it was understandable why the Isles jumped on the pick. Back then Poulin was playing uninspired, Ridderwall was ok, so we had no future star goalie prospect at that time.

I would have preferred Ferraro's kid, but I was not that unhappy with the Koskinen pick.
Koskinen had a great year in Finland, and was 21 at the time, far more NHL ready than any 18 year old we could have drafted. I, personally hate drafting goalies early, but I do understand the pick based on we had no real hope in goal at the time the pick was made. Since then, both Poulin and Nilsson have both moved ahead of him as prospects.

Also, Koskinen is a goalie and he's coming off of hip surgery. It sometimes takes guys about a full season to recover fully from something like that, especially for goalies.

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03-06-2011, 08:10 AM
  #213
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Originally Posted by Bourne Again View Post
Koskinen was getting hyped up big time prior to the draft, so it was understandable why the Isles jumped on the pick. Back then Poulin was playing uninspired, Ridderwall was ok, so we had no future star goalie prospect at that time.

I would have preferred Ferraro's kid, but I was not that unhappy with the Koskinen pick.

Hate to disagree, but Koskinen wasn't even rated in the top 5 goalie wise that year. It was a terrible pick, and I hated it then, and hate it now. The Islanders had to prove they were smarter than the rest of the NHL by making Koskinen the first goalie chosen in the 2009 draft. As usual, they showed they didn't know squat. Goalies like Lehner, Lee and Roy were available and all rated higher than Koskinen. Then you look at offensive players like Tatar and offensive defenseman Stefan Eliiot (who looks like a better prospect than DeHaan). I was angry at this pick and the Nilsson pick in the third round (though that seems like it may work out). It would be nice to see that thread bumped to see all of our comments on the Koskinen pick.

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03-06-2011, 08:37 AM
  #214
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Hate to disagree, but Koskinen wasn't even rated in the top 5 goalie wise that year. It was a terrible pick, and I hated it then, and hate it now. The Islanders had to prove they were smarter than the rest of the NHL by making Koskinen the first goalie chosen in the 2009 draft. As usual, they showed they didn't know squat. Goalies like Lehner, Lee and Roy were available and all rated higher than Koskinen. Then you look at offensive players like Tatar and offensive defenseman Stefan Eliiot (who looks like a better prospect than DeHaan). I was angry at this pick and the Nilsson pick in the third round (though that seems like it may work out). It would be nice to see that thread bumped to see all of our comments on the Koskinen pick.
I think you need to give these players a few years before making a decision on whether they are busts or someone is better than them. Poulin did not seem too promising a few years ago and now he is in line as our goalie of the future.

I am not writing off Koskinen just yet. Whether he was the wrong pick is still debatable.

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Originally Posted by scott99 View Post
Hate to disagree, but Koskinen wasn't even rated in the top 5 goalie wise that year. It was a terrible pick, and I hated it then, and hate it now. The Islanders had to prove they were smarter than the rest of the NHL by making Koskinen the first goalie chosen in the 2009 draft. As usual, they showed they didn't know squat. Goalies like Lehner, Lee and Roy were available and all rated higher than Koskinen. Then you look at offensive players like Tatar and offensive defenseman Stefan Eliiot (who looks like a better prospect than DeHaan). I was angry at this pick and the Nilsson pick in the third round (though that seems like it may work out). It would be nice to see that thread bumped to see all of our comments on the Koskinen pick.
You can find the thoughts on those picks here - http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=654875&page=27

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03-06-2011, 09:09 AM
  #215
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Hate to disagree, but Koskinen wasn't even rated in the top 5 goalie wise that year. It was a terrible pick, and I hated it then, and hate it now. The Islanders had to prove they were smarter than the rest of the NHL by making Koskinen the first goalie chosen in the 2009 draft. As usual, they showed they didn't know squat. Goalies like Lehner, Lee and Roy were available and all rated higher than Koskinen. Then you look at offensive players like Tatar and offensive defenseman Stefan Eliiot (who looks like a better prospect than DeHaan). I was angry at this pick and the Nilsson pick in the third round (though that seems like it may work out). It would be nice to see that thread bumped to see all of our comments on the Koskinen pick.
I was only angry at the fact that the Isles drafted 2 goalies in 2nd and 3rd round. However, just because a player isn't ranked doesn't rank where he was taken does not mean a thing (Hamonic vs. Ness/Trivino is a prime example).

But I also believe that quality goalies can be had late in drafts (Poulin), and spending a 2nd and a 3rd for a goalie isn't the ideal way to go. However, if Koskinen becomes at least a backup (the jury is still out on him), and Nilsson becomes as good as his current hype, you can't criticize either one of the picks.

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03-06-2011, 09:30 AM
  #216
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I think you need to give these players a few years before making a decision on whether they are busts or someone is better than them. Poulin did not seem too promising a few years ago and now he is in line as our goalie of the future.

I am not writing off Koskinen just yet. Whether he was the wrong pick is still debatable.

Everything on these boards is debatable. However given where Koskinen was taken, the fact he was the FIRST goalie off the board, and that there were a bunch of very good prospects still out there, he really needs to develop into a good starting NHL goalie for this pick not to be a bust.

Because he is still young we cannot answer this question fully yet, but many signs are pointing towards it being a bad pick both because of Koskinen's play and the development of several players picked behind him.

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03-06-2011, 02:30 PM
  #217
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Originally Posted by periferal View Post
Everything on these boards is debatable. However given where Koskinen was taken, the fact he was the FIRST goalie off the board, and that there were a bunch of very good prospects still out there, he really needs to develop into a good starting NHL goalie for this pick not to be a bust.
So, if Landon Ferrarro or Ryan O'Reilly don't become good first liners, are they busts also?

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03-06-2011, 03:19 PM
  #218
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So, if Landon Ferrarro or Ryan O'Reilly don't become good first liners, are they busts also?

You did not digest the post you're responding to. I said that "given where Koskinen was taken, the fact he was the FIRST goalie off the board, and that there were a bunch of very good prospects still out there, he really needs to develop into a good starting NHL goalie for this pick not to be a bust."

Landon Ferrarro or Ryan O'Reilly (among others) aren't goalies, not the first players drafted at their position, and were drafted right about where the concensus of scouts/experts expected them to go. There's no question we reached for Koskinen which puts added pressure on him to make it. By taking him earlier than almost any other team would have, the Isles are obviously saying they LOVE him as a future player. I'm fine with "reaching" if you do love a player, but you've got to get it right. And I believe the more you "reach" the more of a bust a player is when you don't get it right.

If you need an example read up on Adrian Foster drafted in the 1st round by the Devils. Now that is a major bust pick considering where he was picked vs where he should have been picked.

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03-06-2011, 06:45 PM
  #219
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Anyone know what happend between the Tigers and P-Bruins today? Besides the Tigers losing 6 zip it appears 3 P-Bruins we thrown out for major penalties. A boarding major on MacDonald, a major checking to the head on Bodnarchuck, and a major spearing on Hamill (who do they think they are the Islanders? LOL) and did anyone get hurt? All I read was the boxscore so I do not know any particuliars. Also saw in the boxscores that Jonesuu got in a fight last night, didn't know the kid had it in him.

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03-06-2011, 07:34 PM
  #220
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Anyone know what happend between the Tigers and P-Bruins today? Besides the Tigers losing 6 zip it appears 3 P-Bruins we thrown out for major penalties. A boarding major on MacDonald, a major checking to the head on Bodnarchuck, and a major spearing on Hamill (who do they think they are the Islanders? LOL) and did anyone get hurt? All I read was the boxscore so I do not know any particuliars. Also saw in the boxscores that Jonesuu got in a fight last night, didn't know the kid had it in him.
Forward Brandon Svendsen was hit from behind and went head first into the boards. Was taken off on a stretcher and went to the hospital. Nothing new on that front. Ullstrom was hurt after taking the head check and Tony Romano was the recipient of the spear.

As for Joensuu, he was jumped by Tim Conboy and after he was challenged multiple times by Sound Tiger players, he declined. Gutless player.

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03-06-2011, 07:39 PM
  #221
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Originally Posted by periferal View Post
You did not digest the post you're responding to. I said that "given where Koskinen was taken, the fact he was the FIRST goalie off the board, and that there were a bunch of very good prospects still out there, he really needs to develop into a good starting NHL goalie for this pick not to be a bust."

Landon Ferrarro or Ryan O'Reilly (among others) aren't goalies, not the first players drafted at their position, and were drafted right about where the concensus of scouts/experts expected them to go. There's no question we reached for Koskinen which puts added pressure on him to make it. By taking him earlier than almost any other team would have, the Isles are obviously saying they LOVE him as a future player. I'm fine with "reaching" if you do love a player, but you've got to get it right. And I believe the more you "reach" the more of a bust a player is when you don't get it right.

If you need an example read up on Adrian Foster drafted in the 1st round by the Devils. Now that is a major bust pick considering where he was picked vs where he should have been picked.
I read the part about him being the first goalie drafted, but disregarded it because it's utterly irrelevant. Mattias Tedenby was the first RW drafted in 2008. Say he becomes a good 2nd/3rd liner, and Tyler Cuma (drafted 1 spot ahead of him) becomes a 6th Dman. Does that somehow make Cuma a better pick since he was the 11th D-man drafted, and Tedenby was the 1st RW? I don't think so at all. Does that make Tedenby a bust?

I agree with looking at other prospects available and draft position. But the reality of the situation is that the majority of players drafted around him are unlike to be first liners or top pairing guys. Which makes it fairly ridiculous to call him a bust if he becomes a quality NHLer but not a legit start goalie. I am familiar with Adrian Foster, and he is a bust because he never became an NHLer (or even played an NHL game, for that matter). If he turned out to be a decent 2nd liner, the pick would've been fine and no one would call him a bust. If Koskinen, like Foster, never becomes an NHLer I have no issue with calling him a bust. But the whole he must be a good starting goalie or he's a bust is a ridiculous thing to say about a 2nd round pick.

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03-06-2011, 08:58 PM
  #222
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I agree with looking at other prospects available and draft position. But the reality of the situation is that the majority of players drafted around him are unlike to be first liners or top pairing guys. Which makes it fairly ridiculous to call him a bust if he becomes a quality NHLer but not a legit start goalie. I am familiar with Adrian Foster, and he is a bust because he never became an NHLer (or even played an NHL game, for that matter). If he turned out to be a decent 2nd liner, the pick would've been fine and no one would call him a bust. If Koskinen, like Foster, never becomes an NHLer I have no issue with calling him a bust. But the whole he must be a good starting goalie or he's a bust is a ridiculous thing to say about a 2nd round pick.

I mean "IF" is the key word to this entire conversation. It's too early to tell on Koskinen, but we can call Foster a bust. By all those in the know, it was debatable whether or not he should have been drafted - Much less in the first round. The Devils swung for the fences and struck out.

Now while Koskinen most certainly was going to be drafted, we took him higher than when most scouts/GMs would have advised so therefore it was a reach pick. Snow has certainly shown he's not afraid to move around a draft to pick a guy when or where he wants them (Bailey, DeHaan, etc.).

So two things must have been in play when Koskinen was taken:
  1. Snow felt he had to have him
  2. Regardless if true, Snow felt at least one other team was going to take him any pick

Bottom line is that it's a huge risk pick and would be a shame if Koskinen doesn't pan out when there were less risky picks to be had at the 31st overall pick.

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03-06-2011, 09:24 PM
  #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by periferal View Post
I mean "IF" is the key word to this entire conversation. It's too early to tell on Koskinen, but we can call Foster a bust. By all those in the know, it was debatable whether or not he should have been drafted - Much less in the first round. The Devils swung for the fences and struck out.
Of course Foster is a bust, I never said or implied that he wasn't. What I did say, is that he is a bust for completely different reasons than what you said about Koskinen. Foster is a bust because he failed to become any sort of NHLer, not because he failed to be a good first liner.

Quote:
Now while Koskinen most certainly was going to be drafted, we took him higher than when most scouts/GMs would have advised so therefore it was a reach pick. Snow has certainly shown he's not afraid to move around a draft to pick a guy when or where he wants them (Bailey, DeHaan, etc.).

So two things must have been in play when Koskinen was taken:
  1. Snow felt he had to have him
  2. Regardless if true, Snow felt at least one other team was going to take him any pick

Bottom line is that it's a huge risk pick and would be a shame if Koskinen doesn't pan out when there were less risky picks to be had at the 31st overall pick.
Which is all fine, but you seem to be ignoring the one point I'm actually trying to make here. That point is that calling a later 1st rounder or 2nd rounder a bust simply because they do not become a good starter/good first liner/good top pairing dman is a bit ridiculous. If you get a decent 2nd/3rd liner, top 4-5 dman, or a 1B type goalie, that's a completely solid pick and definitely not a bust. It may not be a great pick, but still it's a very solid return for that sort of pick.

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03-07-2011, 01:40 AM
  #224
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With regards to Foster he was picked because the Devils at the time didn't particularly like any player available to them, so they took a wild chance at Foster, and failing to sign him was awarded a compensatory pick instead. At least so says Gare Joyce.

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03-07-2011, 06:24 AM
  #225
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Nino scored again last night.That was 36 for the season in 49 games. It took him 61 games to hit that number last year. That was his 9th goal in the last 5 games. On fire.

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