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Pavelski to toronto

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Old
02-07-2011, 07:00 PM
  #76
Sonny21
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I am going to ignore the op proposal, since it's been discussed. I still think the value is there for a versteeg+beauchemin for pavelski type of deal.

Maybe make some modification if needed to.

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02-07-2011, 07:02 PM
  #77
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Toronto needs to add a 1st.

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02-07-2011, 07:02 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfried View Post
Actually, he just described Beauchemin to a tee, but let's not start that debate again.
Beauchemin can't move the puck to the degree that the Sharks need him to. He can do it adequately, but I think San Jose is looking for more of a ~35-40 point defenseman.

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02-07-2011, 07:30 PM
  #79
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setting aside all the bickering about Schenn's value vs. Pavelski's value, as an outsider I think they're pretty close. But SJ doesn't need Schenn. The Avs could use him badly, and have a player that would fit in SJ perfectly, but he's not valued quite like high as those 2.

So something along the lines of:

Tor gets: Pavelski
SJ gets: Liles+ (pick? Galiardi? someone else?)
Col gets: Schenn

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Old
02-07-2011, 07:42 PM
  #80
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IF Kessel wants out, which I'm skeptical of, why would Toronto want to trade for a guy like Pavelski? Trading Kessel could bring in some nice draft picks and talented prospects. This could do wonders for the team in the long run. I know the fans/team are sick of being a lower echelon team, but usually acquiring talented, established players (like Kessel/Pavelski/Richards etc.) requires talented prospects and/or high draft selections going the other way. Toronto is not in a position to give up either of those things and don't have much of them anyway.

Trading for Pavelski or Richards or Carter or any other established talent of the sort would only create a gap elsewhere in their organization. If I were Toronto, I'd blow all the current plans up and start from scratch. You need build a core before you can add/subtract pieces in the supporting cast and, from the looks of it, there is no strong core of players to build around. It'll suck in the short-term but it beats facing mediocrity and false hope created by searching through free-agency.

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Old
02-07-2011, 07:46 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 93gilmour93 View Post
first time thornton got traded it was for sturm , stuart , primeau. now that he's 5 years older he's worth schenn , kessel , aulie and draft picks. HF Boards strikes again
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Yes because the original Thornton trade was universally accepted as completely fair value and he had won an Art Ross, Hart Trophy and Olympic Gold at the time in addition to having become the first non-Mario, non-Gretzky player to post 90 assists in back to back seasons.
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Originally Posted by 93gilmour93 View Post
ok there. the sharks hosed boston
looks like somebody fell into the chasm.

on topic, original proposal is absolutely brutal. not only do the leafs get taken to the cleaners, but the sharks don't even get what they actually need for a Cup run this year.

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02-07-2011, 07:50 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Doctor Goon View Post
Toronto needs to add a 1st.
Seriously?

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Old
02-07-2011, 07:51 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
Beauchemin can't move the puck to the degree that the Sharks need him to. He can do it adequately, but I think San Jose is looking for more of a ~35-40 point defenseman.
Yet their GM's attempted moves indicate otherwise...

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02-07-2011, 08:00 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfried View Post
Yet their GM's attempted moves indicate otherwise...
jfried's logic strikes again!

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02-07-2011, 08:03 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfried View Post
Yet their GM's attempted moves indicate otherwise...
jfried: Leafs fan, HFB poster, insider? I think so!

I don't even know why I continue to reply to you. You clearly are off your rocker.

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02-07-2011, 08:08 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfried View Post
Yet their GM's attempted moves indicate otherwise...
Moves that were attempted during the off-season. Needs change based on what the team provides and anyone with half a brain would see that the Sharks need a PMD. If DW acquires someone that isn't that, it just proves he doesn't have half a brain.

To the OP, it was God awful. There's nothing on Toronto that is available that I'd want on this team. Maybe the teams can talk in the off-season when there's more flexibility but there is no deal to be had now with these teams.

Pavs for Schenn doesn't make sense when we have Vlasic and the need is the ability to move the puck proficiently and not just adequately. Think of how Boyle and Demers move the puck and look for players with that vision, mobility, and puck skills. Schenn doesn't have that yet. Beauchemin doesn't have that at all. Only Kaberle does but he is not available.

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Old
02-07-2011, 08:19 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
Moves that were attempted during the off-season. Needs change based on what the team provides and anyone with half a brain would see that the Sharks need a PMD. If DW acquires someone that isn't that, it just proves he doesn't have half a brain.

To the OP, it was God awful. There's nothing on Toronto that is available that I'd want on this team. Maybe the teams can talk in the off-season when there's more flexibility but there is no deal to be had now with these teams.

Pavs for Schenn doesn't make sense when we have Vlasic and the need is the ability to move the puck proficiently and not just adequately. Think of how Boyle and Demers move the puck and look for players with that vision, mobility, and puck skills. Schenn doesn't have that yet. Beauchemin doesn't have that at all. Only Kaberle does but he is not available.
THIS. THIS. AND THIS.

If Kaberle is signed to a relative long contract (ie. like Pavelski's), then a Kaberle-Pavelski deal makes sense. But we're not trading our #2 center for a UFA Kaberle. Every other player on the Leafs does not fit our needs at all, including Beauchemin and Schenn.

We already have a Luke Schenn type player on the Sharks. His name is Vlasic.

BTW, Toronto would be stupid to even consider the OP. Pavelski's good but he's no Brad Richards.

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Old
02-07-2011, 08:24 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
jfried: Leafs fan, HFB poster, insider? I think so!

I don't even know why I continue to reply to you. You clearly are off your rocker.

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Old
02-07-2011, 08:30 PM
  #89
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I just want to make it very clear that the OP's proposal is terrible. I would absolutely label it 'absurd'.

I'm know Leaf's fans have absurd proposals posted by their fans occasionally as well. Shark's fans are pretty realistic about their options for the most part.
I have to agree. Sharks fans are some of the better posters on this board.

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Old
02-07-2011, 09:57 PM
  #90
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Tonight was the 5th or 6th game in a row sharks had a scout at leafs game...

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Old
02-07-2011, 10:01 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Sonny21 View Post
Tonight was the 5th or 6th game in a row sharks had a scout at leafs game...
thats interesting if true

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Old
02-07-2011, 10:01 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
jfried: Leafs fan, HFB poster, insider? I think so!

I don't even know why I continue to reply to you. You clearly are off your rocker.
Last I checked, the Sharks did attempt to sign Niklas Hjalmarsson, a guy with a career high of 17 ponts. James Wisniewski was available for picks that the Sharks had, is a two way guy that puts up 35-40 points in a healthy year, and they let him go to Montreal.

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02-07-2011, 10:16 PM
  #93
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Leafs wouldn't even trade Schenn straight up for Pavelski, not to mention adding in Versteeg and Aulie + 2 picks.

Besides, SJ wouldn't be able to fit Schenn and Versteeg (about 6 mil cap hit) under the cap.

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Old
02-07-2011, 11:10 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfried View Post
Last I checked, the Sharks did attempt to sign Niklas Hjalmarsson, a guy with a career high of 17 ponts. James Wisniewski was available for picks that the Sharks had, is a two way guy that puts up 35-40 points in a healthy year, and they let him go to Montreal.
A) Wisniewski is not a long-term solution as an impending UFA

B) I didn't know you had proof that he was offered to DW.

C) I'll bet you'd never seen Hjalmarsson play last season. He could move the puck with aplomb and was competent in his own zone. He's declined this year, I'll give you that much.

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Old
02-07-2011, 11:14 PM
  #95
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A) Wisniewski is not a long-term solution as an impending UFA

B) I didn't know you had proof that he was offered to DW.

C) I'll bet you'd never seen Hjalmarsson play last season. He could move the puck with aplomb and was competent in his own zone. He's declined this year, I'll give you that much.
A) So what? The Sharks window to win is now.

B) He was offered (and traded) for draft picks. Any prudent GM who shops a player for draft picks tries to maximum value out of those picks. GMs don't care where the picks came from, if Snow felt that the Habs 2nd rounder might have been higher than the Sharks 2nd rounder, that's a situation where including an extra asset gets a deal done.

C) I'll bet you'd never seen Beauchemin play. He can move the puck much better than HJalmarsson can.

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Old
02-07-2011, 11:31 PM
  #96
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To Toronto: Pavelski + 2nd + Huskins(dump)
To San Jose: Kaberle + Versteeg

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Old
02-08-2011, 12:03 AM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfried View Post
The concept of it not being very difficult to clear a guy like Huskins evades you.
It's not nearly as easy as you want to believe. Huskins wasn't going to be enough to accommodate Wisniewski anyway. Plus, there likely wasn't a place to put Huskins to clear his salary anyway so I don't know where you got that ridiculous idea that it's easy. Simply foolish, if you ask me.

The Ehrhoff trade is a good example of how difficult it really is to move that kind of cap space.

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02-08-2011, 12:10 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
It's not nearly as easy as you want to believe. Huskins wasn't going to be enough to accommodate Wisniewski anyway. Plus, there likely wasn't a place to put Huskins to clear his salary anyway so I don't know where you got that ridiculous idea that it's easy. Simply foolish, if you ask me.

The Ehrhoff trade is a good example of how difficult it really is to move that kind of cap space.
Actually it is. There's plenty of teams who suffer injuries mid-season and are happy to take on a $1.7m defenceman, especially if they can get a late pick. San Jose also had enough cap space to cover the difference between Wisniewski and Huskins.

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02-08-2011, 12:17 AM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
Moves that were attempted during the off-season. Needs change based on what the team provides and anyone with half a brain would see that the Sharks need a PMD. If DW acquires someone that isn't that, it just proves he doesn't have half a brain.

To the OP, it was God awful. There's nothing on Toronto that is available that I'd want on this team. Maybe the teams can talk in the off-season when there's more flexibility but there is no deal to be had now with these teams.

Pavs for Schenn doesn't make sense when we have Vlasic and the need is the ability to move the puck proficiently and not just adequately. Think of how Boyle and Demers move the puck and look for players with that vision, mobility, and puck skills. Schenn doesn't have that yet. Beauchemin doesn't have that at all. Only Kaberle does but he is not available.
Honestly, most people outside of Toronto don't seem to know much about Schenn. They see the shutdown label and automatically assume that's all he is meanwhile, the guy has been making huge strides this season with his puck movement. He's been above average and the patience he's starting to show with it is impressive for a guy his age. He's going to be a special player, he's already good but in due time he'll be one of the better d-men around. I also don't understand how people are putting a cap on his offensive potential, do people not realize that the vast majority of points for all d-men across the league is because of PP time? Something Schenn almost never gets. When he starts getting PP time I'll make my decision on whether he has some offense to his game or not. I realize you don't need a 21 year old and you wouldn't fork up what it would cost to get him I'm just pointing this out in general.

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Old
02-08-2011, 12:17 AM
  #100
Pinkfloyd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfried View Post
Actually it is. There's plenty of teams who suffer injuries mid-season and are happy to take on a $1.7m defenceman, especially if they can get a late pick. San Jose also had enough cap space to cover the difference between Wisniewski and Huskins.
You're wrong on all fronts but you keep believing what you want.

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