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Boston interested in Tomas Kaberle

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Old
02-08-2011, 05:30 PM
  #326
htpwn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eennad142 View Post
My post stated the facts. If you can't deal with it, don't turn into an idiot by mentioning Lidstrom and Kaberle in the same breath.
You posted a narrow glimpse of Kaberle's score card and he showed you the flaws of relying on simply hits and +/- for a defenseman.

Kaberle is easily > Gill, Seidenberg, Leipold, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan11 View Post
Many people don't understand that no team is going to want to move a first round pick for 20 regular season games and the playoffs...
There are several examples of teams that did exactly that, please scroll up.

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Old
02-08-2011, 05:31 PM
  #327
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Originally Posted by thatshype View Post
I don't buy "STATS=EVERYTHING", but when the guy I responded to tries to use stats to show Kaberle is garbage, then it's worth showing him a counterpoint where those same stats could make the opposite argument.



And besides, I don't think alot of people on the Island are very satisfied with John Tavares anyways.
i was helping your cause

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eennad142 View Post
My post stated the facts. If you can't deal with it, don't turn into an idiot by mentioning Lidstrom and Kaberle in the same breath.
he's just pointing out the fact that your thinking is backwards and using Lidstrom as an example. good plays on the ice don't always translate to good stats especially if you're in a non-playoff contender team.

don't call him an idiot, it just shows your hypocrisy

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02-08-2011, 05:31 PM
  #328
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Originally Posted by leafsfan1947456 View Post
to Boston
Kaberle

To Toronto

Toronto 1st
Brad Marchand

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02-08-2011, 05:33 PM
  #329
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eennad142 View Post
You let your big ego get in the way of clear thinking there, too bad. See if you can make sense of the numbers this time around.
2010 stats:
Tomas Kaberle @ $4.25 million
+- @-5.
Hits @ 25
Powerplay goals @ 0
Blocked shots @ 86
Shots on goal @ 87

Dennis Seidenberg @ $3 million
+- @+7
Hits @ 111
Powerplay goals @ 0
Blocked shots @ 118
Shots on goal @ 115
Are you a troll?

It's amusing how someone can twist reality by displaying half the story.

Let's ignore the fact that Kaberle has more points right now then Seidenberg has ever put up in a season.


Last edited by htpwn: 02-08-2011 at 05:39 PM.
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02-08-2011, 05:35 PM
  #330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by htpwn View Post

There are several examples of teams that did exactly that, please scroll up.
What? I see Brendan Witt, Shane O'Brien, Brian Campbell, Olli Jokinen, Campoli/Comrie..

That's several? Give me some of that you're smoking man.

Brian Campbell is the only legit player on that list. Everyone else is decent. I'm done here. I'll be laughing when the Leaf fans are crying about how they didn't get a 1st round pick come trade deadline.

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Old
02-08-2011, 05:35 PM
  #331
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thatshype View Post
2009 had a pretty lopsided deal involving a 1st....

To Calgary:
Olli Jokinen
2009 rd pick

To Phoenix:
Matthew Lombardi
Brandon Prust
2009 or 2010 1st round pick


The same year, Pittsburgh traded Ryan Whitney to Anaheim for Chris Kunitz (gets ice-time with Crosby) and Eric Tangradi (Pittsburgh's current top prospect).


2009 also saw New York Islanders get a 1st round pick and Dean McAmmond from the Senators for Chris Campoli and Mike Comrie.




Sure, 2010 didn't see any 1st rounders or many top Prospects change hands, but 2009 did.
Sutter made the first trade and he's as bad a g.m as Burke.

Ryan Whitney was an rfa dman who was what 24? He's also been traded away since.

The Senators traded I believe it was SJ's pick and not their own in that deal. SJ's pick was projected to be a very late one. Don't know where it ended up though. Campoli was their target and was still under contract from what i rememeber and is an rfa.

Not one of the trades you mentioned dealt with a ntc clause on a player that's refused to waive either.

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02-08-2011, 05:36 PM
  #332
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Okay I'm not gonna reply to Eennad anymore. Looks like the boards have spoken.


Finish him off, boys.

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02-08-2011, 05:37 PM
  #333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan11 View Post
What? I see Brendan Witt, Shane O'Brien, Brian Campbell, Olli Jokinen, Campoli/Comrie..

That's several? Give me some of that you're smoking man.

Brian Campbell is the only legit player on that list. Everyone else is decent. I'm done here. I'll be laughing when the Leaf fans are crying about how they didn't get a 1st round pick come trade deadline.
as long as he doesn't go to boston i'm sure people won't mind

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Old
02-08-2011, 05:39 PM
  #334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by htpwn View Post
Are you a troll?

It's amusing how someone can twist reality by displaying half the story.

Let's ignore the fact that Kaberle has more points right now then Seidenberg is projected to finish with at the end of the season.
HAHA exactly.

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Old
02-08-2011, 05:41 PM
  #335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dredeye View Post
Sutter made the first trade and he's as bad a g.m as Burke.

Ryan Whitney was an rfa dman who was what 24? He's also been traded away since.

The Senators traded I believe it was SJ's pick and not their own in that deal. SJ's pick was projected to be a very late one. Don't know where it ended up though. Campoli was their target and was still under contract from what i rememeber and is an rfa.

Not one of the trades you mentioned dealt with a ntc clause on a player that's refused to waive either.
Wasn't really trying to draw any comparisons to a Kaberle deal...just commenting on how 2009 saw alot more movement than 2010, so using only 2010 as an example is slightly misguided.

Hence why I concluded my point simply as:
Quote:
Sure, 2010 didn't see any 1st rounders or many top Prospects change hands, but 2009 did.

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02-08-2011, 05:41 PM
  #336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan11 View Post
What? I see Brendan Witt, Shane O'Brien, Brian Campbell, Olli Jokinen, Campoli/Comrie..

That's several? Give me some of that you're smoking man.

Brian Campbell is the only legit player on that list. Everyone else is decent. I'm done here. I'll be laughing when the Leaf fans are crying about how they didn't get a 1st round pick come trade deadline.
Boo Hoo; The bottom line is that contrary to what you and several other Boston posters have written, first round picks have been given out at the deadline for impeding UFAs. There has also been several players who got second rounders who were far inferior to Kaberle in the last few years. Don't like it? Too bad, that's the facts.

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02-08-2011, 05:43 PM
  #337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by htpwn View Post
Are you a troll?
It's amusing how someone can twist reality by displaying half the story.
Let's ignore the fact that Kaberle has more points right now then Seidenberg has ever put up in a season.
Some people twist reality. Others don't want to see the truth even when it's put in front of them.

I forgot to list goals scored 2010 stat:
Kaberle @ 2
Seidenberg @ 4

Old Kabs has the lead in assists. You got me there. See if you can finish the job.

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Old
02-08-2011, 05:43 PM
  #338
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anders0n74 View Post
Yes it was! You're quite the historian! Wasn't it last year when that joke became old?
Nope. That will never get old. It's one of the biggest choke jobs in recent memory.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie Spankie View Post
I can't believe people actually think a rental Kaberle is worth a top 5 draft pick.
That's because you haven't learnt now to read yet.

We believe he wont be dealt to BOSTON unless that pick is coming back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eennad142 View Post
How can Kabs be significantly better' than anyone these days? He has just 25 hits as a defenceman for this entire year, and comes in at -8 rating. Stop with the hype in varying degrees.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eennad142 View Post
My post stated the facts. If you can't deal with it, don't turn into an idiot by mentioning Lidstrom and Kaberle in the same breath.
Your post stated a bunch of stupid reasoning, and not considering anything other than hits and +/-. He showed your flaw in logic using Lidstrom as an example. You purposely left out pts, and the standing of the team.

Perhaps you left it out cause you have no idea about the game of hockey. Here's where he tries to spoon feed you, and you still fail to get the logic .

Quote:
Originally Posted by thatshype View Post
Actually you're post stating blatantly WRONG "facts" when you said Kaberle is -8. Don't turn yourself into an idiot by defending an obvious error.


You clearly understood nothing about the point I made there effectively.




You: Kaberle sucks because he's -8 and has no hits!!!!
Me: Actually, Kaberle is -3 and has the same number of hits and assists, while three times as many blocked shots as one of the League's greatest. Kaberle is not better than Lidstrom, but CLEARLY Kaberle is better then Seidenberg, Corvo, Leopold, Gill...and all those other guys on that list which you originally responded to.
Start watching some hockey, maybe watch Kaberle once, and then try talking, cuz right now YOU are the idiot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eennad142 View Post
You let your big ego get in the way of clear thinking there, too bad. See if you can make sense of the numbers this time around and stop turning yourself into an idiot time and again.
2010 stats:
Tomas Kaberle @ $4.25 million
+- @-5.
Hits @ 25
Powerplay goals @ 0
Blocked shots @ 86
Shots on goal @ 87

Dennis Seidenberg @ $3 million
+- @+7
Hits @ 111
Powerplay goals @ 0
Blocked shots @ 118
Shots on goal @ 115

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02-08-2011, 05:46 PM
  #339
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eennad142 View Post
You let your big ego get in the way of clear thinking there, too bad. See if you can make sense of the numbers this time around and stop turning yourself into an idiot time and again.
2010 stats:
Tomas Kaberle @ $4.25 million
+- @-5.
Hits @ 25
Powerplay goals @ 0
Blocked shots @ 86
Shots on goal @ 87

Dennis Seidenberg @ $3 million
+- @+7
Hits @ 111
Powerplay goals @ 0
Blocked shots @ 118
Shots on goal @ 115
...
Are you dumb? You are adamant on comparing stats between kaberle and seidenberg but wont compare stats between kaberle and lidstrom. You either use stats for comparison or you dont... take your pick.

I wouldnt even trade kaberle for a late first. Much rather resign him. Kaberle is like kessel = one dimensional (his defense is average at best). He can perform by himself but needs others to be really really good. As an example phil could score 40, heck even 45 with the right players. Similarly kaberle will get 50 points with a crappy small leafs offense. However with a better, bigger offence, he could get 60 maybe even 65 points. I would rather re-sign him and try to get better forwards from through FA and other trades.

he would be a great fit in boston. he can feed many offensive options (including chara's 105mph shot) and his defensive shortcomings would also be protected by chara. Still not interested in trading him unless its for overpayment (and if he goes on an extention)- and you dont want that.

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02-08-2011, 05:46 PM
  #340
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Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
B's fans are gloating because their set to make a decision with Toronto's 1st and Toronto doesn't have a 1st. Still, 3 years down the road I bet B's fans will have settled down to reality once Seguin produces like a 2nd liner, Knight busts and this year's 1st will only be settling into the league. Kessel will still be a a one-dimensional scorer and both teams will be talking about how it was a terrible trade for both sides.
B's fans are very happy with the trade as of today. Down the road I'll put money on the fact that not one B's fan will be complaining. Seguin will be allowed to grow slowly with the B's without any added pressure. Knight may bust but at this point in his development is only doing what we would hope for. Improving nicely. The first this year will simply be icing on the cake for us. To be consistently competitive you want guys like this years first just settling into the league in a couple years. That just means we have a constant flow of young high ceiling propescts following in behind our current group of young high ceiling roster players and prospects. But you are right about one thing you will still just have a one dimensional winger. But you've always got Burke's draft on July 1st. Bet your excited for that.

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02-08-2011, 05:48 PM
  #341
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Originally Posted by thatshype View Post
Wasn't really trying to draw any comparisons to a Kaberle deal...just commenting on how 2009 saw alot more movement than 2010, so using only 2010 as an example is slightly misguided.

Hence why I concluded my point simply as:
And I was simply stating the differences in the situations.

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02-08-2011, 05:49 PM
  #342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eennad142 View Post
Some people twist reality. Others don't want to see the truth even when it's put in front of them.

I forgot to list goals scored 2010 stat:
Kaberle @ 2
Seidenberg @ 4

Old Kabs has the lead in assists. You got me there. See if you can finish the job.
Are Bruins fans this stupid...Kaberle is a PPQB!! His first option is to pass, if you watched the Leafs last night he made an amazing pass to MacAarthur for a goal. He's not going to sit there and bomb it from the point. He's not going to score a lot of goals. And by the way that example is crap..Seindenberg scored 2 more goals!!1 ZOMG doesn't take away the fact that Kaberle is outscoring him by 12 pts.

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02-08-2011, 05:49 PM
  #343
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i've said it before in other threads , kaberle and chara would be one of the best 1-2 d-partners in the league.

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02-08-2011, 05:50 PM
  #344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chandrashekhar Limit View Post


Start watching some hockey, maybe watch Kaberle once, and then try talking, cuz right now YOU are the idiot.


Is that directed at me or Eennad?

Kinda weird for you to agree with me, then seemingly call me an idiot for restating the same point.


EDIT: Oops, missed the line right before you quoted me. My bad.


Last edited by thatshype: 02-08-2011 at 05:53 PM. Reason: MY BAD, YO
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02-08-2011, 05:50 PM
  #345
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan11 View Post
Many people don't understand that no team is going to want to move a first round pick for 20 regular season games and the playoffs...

If Kaberle were to resign with the team he was traded to then a first round pick or a key player involved in the trade would be good value.. But damn it people.. We're talking about 40 games here...

A first for 40 games? Pass.
You realize, that if the Bruins play 20 games in the postseason, they would at least have to make the 3rd round, likely the 4th?

Trading a first-round pick isn't worth that?

There are NUMEROUS exampples of a team moving a 1st-round pick for that brief shot...because teams want to win the cup, that is the ultimate goal.

Just in defensemen in the past couple of years, you have Campbell, Rivet, Timonen (expiring contract and all!), Foote, Shane-freaking O'Brien, Meszaros, Brendan-freaking Witt, etc. And that's just from memory; I am sure tehre are more.

Looking at the rest of them, you have Hossa, Kovalchuk, Demitra, Zubrus, Cammalleri Nagy, Tanguay, Smyth, Tkachuk, Guerin, Weight, Roloson, an injured Forsberg, etc.

Some of these guys stayed on, some of these guys left, but all the GMs pulled the trigger at the time...

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02-08-2011, 05:50 PM
  #346
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Kaberle is being seriously underrated here.

I still wouldn't give up TO's 1st for him though.

Something around one of our prospects (Colborne, Caron, Sauve) and maybe a 2nd, sure.

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02-08-2011, 05:50 PM
  #347
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Originally Posted by dredeye View Post
And I was simply stating the differences in the situations.
Fair enough.

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02-08-2011, 05:51 PM
  #348
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Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
You realize, that if the Bruins play 20 games in the postseason, they would at least have to make the 3rd round, likely the 4th?

Trading a first-round pick isn't worth that?

There are NUMEROUS exampples of a team moving a 1st-round pick for that brief shot...because teams want to win the cup, that is the ultimate goal.

Just in defensemen in the past couple of years, you have Campbell, Rivet, Timonen (expiring contract and all!), Foote, Shane-freaking O'Brien, Meszaros, Brendan-freaking Witt, etc. And that's just from memory; I am sure tehre are more.

Looking at the rest of them, you have Hossa, Kovalchuk, Demitra, Zubrus, Cammalleri Nagy, Tanguay, Smyth, Tkachuk, Guerin, Weight, Roloson, an injured Forsberg, etc.

Some of these guys stayed on, some of these guys left, but all the GMs pulled the trigger at the time...
How many of those pics were looking like they might be lottery picks?

Honest question, I have no idea.

Obviously 4th overall has far greater value than 25th.

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02-08-2011, 05:54 PM
  #349
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Quote:
Originally Posted by htpwn View Post
Are you a troll?

It's amusing how someone can twist reality by displaying half the story.

Let's ignore the fact that Kaberle has more points right now then Seidenberg has ever put up in a season.
And 7th in the league in defenceman assists on a team that is 5th from the bottom of the league in goals for.

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02-08-2011, 05:55 PM
  #350
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Quote:
Originally Posted by htpwn View Post
Are you a troll?

It's amusing how someone can twist reality by displaying half the story.

Let's ignore the fact that Kaberle has more points right now then Seidenberg has ever put up in a season.
Okay? So points is the only thing that matters in hockey? He blocks more shots, more hits. I'll take Kaberle over Seidenberg offensively..But Seidenberg beats Kaberle defensively.

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