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The Toughness Thread (all related talk here)

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12-21-2010, 05:12 PM
  #1
BenchBrawl
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The Toughness Thread (all related talk here)

I'm jealous of teams that have toughness.I could tolerate it for a couple of years but is it me or it's been this way for 20 years now? When was the last time we actually were a scary team? I'm not even trying to defend them anymore , there's no point trying to defend something that you cannot defend.This is what happens when you put 21 millions on 3 small players in 1 summer locking them for the next 5 years.You shoot yourself in the foot.I'm tire of ************ myself and reading a bunch of other habs fans lying to themselves.I wish we had nasty players.I wish other fans called our team dirty but deep in their heart were just scared their players would be injured and wish they had our team.Right now i'm pretty much this fan , scared for our players everytime we play a tough team and ashamed when I realise we just can't drop them very effectively.I know toughness is a hot topic but it's always about trying to find one big player on the top 6 or stuff like that , it's not enough for my taste.I want a scary team.After this horrible core of players are done with us I truly wish things will get better...

EDIT: The worst ''lying to ourselves'' example I can give was when people started to talk about ''team toughness'' when in reality we were probably the weakest team in the league ahahah wow talk about helping ourselves sleep better at night.

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Old
12-21-2010, 05:17 PM
  #2
YMCMBeaulieu
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http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=845163

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Old
12-21-2010, 05:17 PM
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snakeye
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As long as the team wins games I don't care about toughness. Sure it would be great to have a tough team, but who the hell is going to trade us Iginla or Getzlaf?

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Old
12-21-2010, 05:20 PM
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Team toughness is what is lacking in MTL since a decade at least. This team does not affraid anyone.

We should go for a big body (who USES it) able to play top 9 and a legitimate goon who does not need a fax machine.

The "dont interfeer and dont provoke" mentality must go too.

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Old
12-21-2010, 05:20 PM
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BenchBrawl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snakeye View Post
As long as the team wins games I don't care about toughness. Sure it would be great to have a tough team, but who the hell is going to trade us Iginla or Getzlaf?
Read my post correctly , I said everytime we talk about toughness we try to add a big player to our top 6 , and that's just not enough.I want a tough team all around.Sure you cant do that in 3 days , but next time we can sign players to 5 years contract by the dozen I hope their choice will be on players bigger than Gionta and Cammalleri.

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12-21-2010, 05:20 PM
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Yeah. This team is a good D-man or two and some muscle away from being championship ready.

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12-21-2010, 05:21 PM
  #7
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Only since the mid-nineties.

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Old
12-21-2010, 05:22 PM
  #8
BenchBrawl
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I'm tire of having a ''classy'' team.This is hockey , professionnal hockey , not the school of good manners.

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Old
12-21-2010, 05:23 PM
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I miss winning Stanley Cups. That's all.

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Old
12-21-2010, 05:23 PM
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I miss that, too. Most people here would rather have small, fast and skilled though... I gave up trying to argue my point. There's no point... I never got a call back when I sent my CV to the Habs for their GM position! (I joke... I didn't actually send a CV, just to clear things up)

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Old
12-21-2010, 05:24 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReenMachine View Post
Read my post correctly , I said everytime we talk about toughness we try to add a big player to our top 6 , and that's just not enough.I want a tough team all around.Sure you cant do that in 3 days , but next time we can sign players to 5 years contract by the dozen I hope their choice will be on players bigger than Gionta and Cammalleri.
Most of the time big players don't make it to free agency as teams make sure to sign them before they hit the market (for example David Backes this year), and when they do their values get inflated big time, even guys like Colby Armstrong who have size but get like 25 points a year manage to get $3 million on the open market.

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Old
12-21-2010, 05:25 PM
  #12
BenchBrawl
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Originally Posted by CrAzYNiNe View Post
I miss winning Stanley Cups. That's all.
oh sure , but it's not like we're trading toughness for Stanley Cups , now we're just a team with the reputation of being a bunch of ******* not winning Stanley Cups.

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12-21-2010, 05:25 PM
  #13
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Originally Posted by Pernell Karl View Post
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=845163

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My name stays in your mouth.

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Old
12-21-2010, 05:26 PM
  #14
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Ya, I miss Canadiens teams that could beat you any way you wanted to play.

Want to play tough: Corson, Skrudkand. McPhee, Nilan, Gainey, Bouchard, Chartraw, Big Bird

Want to play skill game: Naslund, Smith, Coutrnall, Lafleur, Shutt, Lemaire, Larouche.

it's not all bad though, Pouliot and Patches are good starting points for tough, speed and skill.

But I am tired of drafting players under 6 feet and 200 lbs , we have enough of them in our system.

What REALLY drives me nuts is some of our big men play small (Gill) which forces our small players to play big.

Name me another team that has a 5' 7" guys trying to block the goalie's view on a PP?

Before Gionta it was Saku.... I swear we never learn!

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Old
12-21-2010, 05:27 PM
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CrAzYNiNe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReenMachine View Post
oh sure , but it's not like we're trading toughness for Stanley Cups , now we're just a team with the reputation of being a bunch of ******* not winning Stanley Cups.
It's jealousy that we do the simple things right and win, ie caps and pens series.

I don't think toughness would make us a contender, so many factors change when you want a tough team over a speedy team. I like speed more then toughness, but then again if we play the flyers again...

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12-21-2010, 05:27 PM
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While i do believe this team needs more players capable of being able to fight, what they really lack is tough, abrasive players who are difficult to play against. They don't have players who are tough in the corners and in front of the oppositon or their own net.

The difficult part is you need these players in your top 6 and top 4 defenseman however these guys are at a premium in the league. Montreals bottom 2 lines are fine but in their top 6 they are lacking guys who will punish in the corners and make life hell in front of the net for opposition goalies.

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Old
12-21-2010, 05:29 PM
  #17
BenchBrawl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pernell Karl View Post
Most of the time big players don't make it to free agency as teams make sure to sign them before they hit the market (for example David Backes this year), and when they do their values get inflated big time, even guys like Colby Armstrong who have size but get like 25 points a year manage to get $3 million on the open market.
Yeah , you may be right , but in this case maybe not locking a bunch of useless small players for 5 years destroying our hope to reshape this team would have been a plan.And I hope nobody will bring last year's playoff run , my excitement for a eastern conference final apparence has an expiration date and it's been a while now.

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12-21-2010, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs13 View Post
I miss that, too. Most people here would rather have small, fast and skilled though... I gave up trying to argue my point. There's no point... I never got a call back when I sent my CV to the Habs for their GM position! (I joke... I didn't actually send a CV, just to clear things up)
Yep....they take it so personally.

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Old
12-21-2010, 05:30 PM
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Et le But
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This topic again?

Listen, the term "toughness" is absolutely meaningless. I think we need more physical force too but not at the expense of speed and skill. I sometimes think some of you "fans" are more interested in fights than hockey.

All good teams have players willing to stand up for themselves, give and take hits but there's a reason the most successful team over the past decade has been the Red Wings and not goon squads over in Boston or Toronto.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReenMachine View Post
I'm tire of having a ''classy'' team.This is hockey , professionnal hockey , not the school of good manners.
You do realize most of the great Habs teams were "classy" right? A great hockey team will be brave and willing to stand up for themselves, but if you want a team that goons it up for the hell if it you might want to think about becoming a Flyers fan. That was never the Habs.


Last edited by Et le But: 12-21-2010 at 05:35 PM.
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Old
12-21-2010, 05:31 PM
  #20
Habs13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyhabsfan View Post
Ya, I miss Canadiens teams that could beat you any way you wanted to play.

Want to play tough: Corson, Skrudkand. McPhee, Nilan, Gainey, Bouchard, Chartraw, Big Bird

Want to play skill game: Naslund, Smith, Coutrnall, Lafleur, Shutt, Lemaire, Larouche.

it's not all bad though, Pouliot and Patches are good starting points for tough, speed and skill.
But I am tired of drafting players under 6 feet and 200 lbs , we have enough of them in our system.

What REALLY drives me nuts is some of our big men play small (Gill) which forces our small players to play big.

Name me another team that has a 5' 7" guys trying to block the goalie's view on a PP?

Before Gionta it was Saku.... I swear we never learn!
Plus Lars Eller, too.

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Old
12-21-2010, 05:31 PM
  #21
YMCMBeaulieu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReenMachine View Post
Yeah , you may be right , but in this case maybe not locking a bunch of useless small players for 5 years destroying our hope to reshape this team would have been a plan.And I hope nobody will bring last year's playoff run , my excitement for a eastern conference final apparence has an expiration date and it's been a while now.
Cammalleri and Gionta are useless? Yes they are small but they have played well for us since signing with us, a useless small player would've been someone like Sergei Samsonov.

The toughness problem I have is having a guy like Pyatt in the lineup who is good on the PK but not physical and doesn't bring much else instead of having a guy like White who is also good on the PK, fights, forechecks and has a bit of offensive skill.

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Old
12-21-2010, 05:33 PM
  #22
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Become a Leafs fan. I hear they play with a lot of truculence.

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Old
12-21-2010, 05:34 PM
  #23
BenchBrawl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pernell Karl View Post
Cammalleri and Gionta are useless? Yes they are small but they have played well for us since signing with us, a useless small player would've been someone like Sergei Samsonov.
Gionta plays big for his size , but since his size is 5'7 , he may be playing like a 5'9 player.And I won't even start about Cammalleri , everybody here should know what I think of him by now.

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Old
12-21-2010, 05:36 PM
  #24
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I just miss having a complete team. A team that can skate...a team that can be agressive, physical...a team that can win battles along the boards. A team that could defend themselves if it came down to it. A team that actually dictates the pace of the game rather than sit back and adjust to the other team's pace.

Seems like Gauthier gets it...I think he'll address this.

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12-21-2010, 05:37 PM
  #25
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Now that we have a good top 6 time to work on a though bottom 6. Should be allot easier to do.

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