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2010-2011 CHL/NCAA/Euro Prospects thread

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Old
05-30-2011, 12:56 PM
  #851
larrypacman8167
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Originally Posted by bsl View Post
Edit: Did not like it AT ALL that Mark Tinordi was with JT at all his post draft interviews, Bad sign. JT was eighteen, an adult. That was his time. Not Dad's. Real bad sign there. I think Jarred is gonna have to tell him to **** off, and soon, to become a man and a player with his own style and ideas..
i don't think it was mark tinordi's idea to do the interview but was probably the media's request

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05-30-2011, 12:59 PM
  #852
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I don't understand people saying Tinordi is a risk. He may not have offensive potential, but to me one thing is sure, he will play in the NHL.

I see the worst case scenario as him being a bottom pairing physical stay-at-home D. It's the complete opposite of a risk. The unknown is will he be able to have any offensive game or will he have Hal Gill' skills...
There's the chance his puck skills won't develop which happens a lot for guys drafted based on size and strength. Also he needs to develope the defensive awareness to use is abilities at a high level. If that doesn't happen he'll be too much of a liability to play NHL minutes. Hal Gill isn't a player because he's big, he also has a strong sense of defensive positioning which allowed him to use his size to be effective. Ryan O'Byrne was almost as big and faster but couldn't do what Gill does because he just didn't have Gill's hockey sense.

Developement is not a sure thing. The only way he'd be a lock to be an NHL bottom pairing defender is if he already is one now (hint, he's not).

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05-30-2011, 01:12 PM
  #853
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There's the chance his puck skills won't develop which happens a lot for guys drafted based on size and strength. Also he needs to develope the defensive awareness to use is abilities at a high level. If that doesn't happen he'll be too much of a liability to play NHL minutes. Hal Gill isn't a player because he's big, he also has a strong sense of defensive positioning which allowed him to use his size to be effective. Ryan O'Byrne was almost as big and faster but couldn't do what Gill does because he just didn't have Gill's hockey sense.

Developement is not a sure thing. The only way he'd be a lock to be an NHL bottom pairing defender is if he already is one now (hint, he's not).

Then the habs need to be smart and pro active here and hire Gill as a mentor for the defense

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05-30-2011, 01:22 PM
  #854
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Then the habs need to be smart and pro active here and hire Gill as a mentor for the defense
It's not just teaching. Not every prospect's brain has the potential to learn to read the play at an NHL pace, which is, in my opinion, the biggest threshold that has to be crossed to turn a promising prospect into a useful NHLer.

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05-30-2011, 01:46 PM
  #855
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It's not just teaching. Not every prospect's brain has the potential to learn to read the play at an NHL pace, which is, in my opinion, the biggest threshold that has to be crossed to turn a promising prospect into a useful NHLer.
Well said! Take the example of Plekanec developing in the same system at the same time as Higgins and Perezhogin, with similar physical talents. IMO, Plek's ability to quickly interpret and react to what happens on the ice made all the difference.

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05-31-2011, 06:19 PM
  #856
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Wasn't around much this year, anyone got a rundown on our overall prospects play for this year? Had a quick check and most of them had underwhelming seasons.

Especially disappointed in Tinordi, wasn't particularly hot for him in the draft last year (Etem was my first choice), not to mention I liked Merrill a lot better in terms of D. To make things worse, Merrill seems to have taken the 1 D spot at Michigan as a freshman.

So anyone got some context for our guys or is it just a bad year?

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05-31-2011, 06:57 PM
  #857
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Wasn't around much this year, anyone got a rundown on our overall prospects play for this year? Had a quick check and most of them had underwhelming seasons.

Especially disappointed in Tinordi, wasn't particularly hot for him in the draft last year (Etem was my first choice), not to mention I liked Merrill a lot better in terms of D. To make things worse, Merrill seems to have taken the 1 D spot at Michigan as a freshman.

So anyone got some context for our guys or is it just a bad year?
There are guys who do follow prospects closer than I do but I'll fill in what I can.

Very Good Years:
Gallagher: Progressed to become a dominant offensive force in the WHL (44 goals, 91 points in 66 games) of offensive production from a 2010 draft pick he'd be around 20th best of all players in all leagues. All signs point to an even more dominant year in his last in the WHL.

Palushaj: Improved from lackluster his lackluster rookie production to be a strong offensive player for Hamilton (57 points in 68 games). Will likely be the offensive leader of next years Bulldogs.

Good Years:
Engqvist: Not as much of his offensive translated to the AHL as hoped (25 points in 71 games, about half the effective production he had in SEL considering relative difficulties). But he played the role he was expected to play well. Everyone I've heard from considers him to be a top defensive forward and faceoff beast in the AHL.

Bournival: Improved production and was a late cut to Canada's WJC team as an 18 year old. Will make the national team next year. Has another year in the Q to improve further before AHL.

Disappontments:
Leblanc: Was not as dominant in the Q as a 19 year-old as hoped. Shoulder injury likely cause as he was a 1.4 ppg player before it happened. Was solid for team Canada despite apparent injury. Lead all Q players in shots per game (~4.7), likely had conversion problems due to shoulder problems. Plays in Hamilton next year which should show his true mettle. I was very impressed by his pre-season play on an uninjured shoulder for what its worth.

Kristo: Year from hell from him. Had difficulty scoring early in the season. Reports indicate snake-bitten rather than playing bad. Recovered in second half but overall yearly production below first year (0.88 PPG to 0.81 PPG). Then had season cut short by frostbite. Made a return and played very well in the NCAA playoffs and Frozen Four so lasting damage unlikely. Needs another NCAA season to rebound and become dominant at that level before progressing to AHL.

Dumont: After a 53 goal, 93 point season in the Q last year did not translate offensive prowess to AHL. Played energy role and scored 15 points in 51 games. Will probably get a shot as a AHL top 6 player next season.

Avtsin: After a good year for a 18 year old in the KHL (9 points in 30 games with limited ice) had difficulty transistioning game to North America. Which really should be expected from a young Russian that didn't play CHL. New chance next season to show he's learned how to play AHL defense and get to play real minutes.


These don't look great but keep in mind that most of the prospect success stories at the AHL level did so well that they secured NHL berths (Pacioretty, Desharnais, White, Weber).

That's the gist for the forwards, I'll let someone else handle the defense.

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Old
05-31-2011, 07:30 PM
  #858
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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
Leblanc: Was not as dominant in the Q as a 19 year-old as hoped. Shoulder injury likely cause as he was a 1.4 ppg player before it happened. Was solid for team Canada despite apparent injury. Lead all Q players in shots per game (~4.7), likely had conversion problems due to shoulder problems. Plays in Hamilton next year which should show his true mettle. I was very impressed by his pre-season play on an uninjured shoulder for what its worth.
Interesting. Shots per game correlate strongly with goals per game. This is a good omen.

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05-31-2011, 08:43 PM
  #859
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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
There are guys who do follow prospects closer than I do but I'll fill in what I can.

Very Good Years:
Gallagher: Progressed to become a dominant offensive force in the WHL (44 goals, 91 points in 66 games) of offensive production from a 2010 draft pick he'd be around 20th best of all players in all leagues. All signs point to an even more dominant year in his last in the WHL.

Palushaj: Improved from lackluster his lackluster rookie production to be a strong offensive player for Hamilton (57 points in 68 games). Will likely be the offensive leader of next years Bulldogs.

Good Years:
Engqvist: Not as much of his offensive translated to the AHL as hoped (25 points in 71 games, about half the effective production he had in SEL considering relative difficulties). But he played the role he was expected to play well. Everyone I've heard from considers him to be a top defensive forward and faceoff beast in the AHL.

Bournival: Improved production and was a late cut to Canada's WJC team as an 18 year old. Will make the national team next year. Has another year in the Q to improve further before AHL.

Disappontments:
Leblanc: Was not as dominant in the Q as a 19 year-old as hoped. Shoulder injury likely cause as he was a 1.4 ppg player before it happened. Was solid for team Canada despite apparent injury. Lead all Q players in shots per game (~4.7), likely had conversion problems due to shoulder problems. Plays in Hamilton next year which should show his true mettle. I was very impressed by his pre-season play on an uninjured shoulder for what its worth.

Kristo: Year from hell from him. Had difficulty scoring early in the season. Reports indicate snake-bitten rather than playing bad. Recovered in second half but overall yearly production below first year (0.88 PPG to 0.81 PPG). Then had season cut short by frostbite. Made a return and played very well in the NCAA playoffs and Frozen Four so lasting damage unlikely. Needs another NCAA season to rebound and become dominant at that level before progressing to AHL.

Dumont: After a 53 goal, 93 point season in the Q last year did not translate offensive prowess to AHL. Played energy role and scored 15 points in 51 games. Will probably get a shot as a AHL top 6 player next season.

Avtsin: After a good year for a 18 year old in the KHL (9 points in 30 games with limited ice) had difficulty transistioning game to North America. Which really should be expected from a young Russian that didn't play CHL. New chance next season to show he's learned how to play AHL defense and get to play real minutes.


These don't look great but keep in mind that most of the prospect success stories at the AHL level did so well that they secured NHL berths (Pacioretty, Desharnais, White, Weber).

That's the gist for the forwards, I'll let someone else handle the defense.
I'd say that from the prospective of pure stats, you're bang on--but stats don't tell the complete story here. A guy like Dumont for instance was definitely not a disappointment. At the beginning of the year there was simply too many better players ahead of him for him to get any really ice-time. Once he did though, and started understanding what his role on the team was, I'd say he began to flourish.

Avtsin had about the same impact that AKost had in his first year over. Like Dumont, I'd say that if they don't become real fixtures on the team this coming year, than you can call them both disappointments. Considering the depth of the Bulldog offense this past year, they did pretty much what i expected. I'll agree to a certain extent on Leblanc and Kristo, but both were derailed by either injuries or a horrific start--keep in mind that Kristo had a great end to the year before his frostbite mishap. As far as Leblanc goes, I kind of don't seen him as a guy who would dominate in Junior. He's more of a cycle-type rather open-ice type player, a guy who's savvy and puck smarts are more built for pro hockey. I think you'll see a more productive Leblanc in Hamilton next year. Ryan Getslaf had a very comparable season in his last OHL season to Leblanc, and never blew people away with his stats in Junior. Like Louis, Ryan's team had a very balanced attack, unlike a lot of these teams that rely heavily on a top line. All to say that there are a lot of variables in analyzing a player's season. Personally only one player really blew me away, Gallagher, and no player disappointed me much. Everyone else was good, but not much more than that.

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Old
05-31-2011, 09:10 PM
  #860
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I'd say that from the prospective of pure stats, you're bang on--but stats don't tell the complete story here. A guy like Dumont for instance was definitely not a disappointment. At the beginning of the year there was simply too many better players ahead of him for him to get any really ice-time. Once he did though, and started understanding what his role on the team was, I'd say he began to flourish.

Avtsin had about the same impact that AKost had in his first year over. Like Dumont, I'd say that if they don't become real fixtures on the team this coming year, than you can call them both disappointments. Considering the depth of the Bulldog offense this past year, they did pretty much what i expected. I'll agree to a certain extent on Leblanc and Kristo, but both were derailed by either injuries or a horrific start--keep in mind that Kristo had a great end to the year before his frostbite mishap. As far as Leblanc goes, I kind of don't seen him as a guy who would dominate in Junior. He's more of a cycle-type rather open-ice type player, a guy who's savvy and puck smarts are more built for pro hockey. I think you'll see a more productive Leblanc in Hamilton next year. Ryan Getslaf had a very comparable season in his last OHL season to Leblanc, and never blew people away with his stats in Junior. Like Louis, Ryan's team had a very balanced attack, unlike a lot of these teams that rely heavily on a top line. All to say that there are a lot of variables in analyzing a player's season. Personally only one player really blew me away, Gallagher, and no player disappointed me much. Everyone else was good, but not much more than that.
Disappointment to the causal fan I meant. He was asking because a lot of them appeared to not have a particularly great season. I knew that Dumont and Avtsin would have a hill to climb before they'd be big contributors to Hamilton.

I have a lot of confidence that Leblanc will do very well in Hamilton next year. I don't like going solely off of watching a few games but I thought he was the tied for 3rd best overall forward on team Canada with Kassian. Many things conspired to reduce Leblanc's production this year. He suffered and injury, didn't get as many minutes as other junior stars, played in a defensive system and was generally snake-bitten by a very low for junior ~10% shooting percentage. There's nothing wrong with his shot so I'm not concerned that he's got Gomez syndrome. Stupidly early prediction, he'll get at least 50 points in Hamilton next season, even considering injury time.

And Gallagher is awesome, he's pretty comparable to Tyler Ennis who had a successful rookie season with Buffalo this year.

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Old
06-01-2011, 12:56 AM
  #861
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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
There are guys who do follow prospects closer than I do but I'll fill in what I can.

Very Good Years:
Gallagher: Progressed to become a dominant offensive force in the WHL (44 goals, 91 points in 66 games) of offensive production from a 2010 draft pick he'd be around 20th best of all players in all leagues. All signs point to an even more dominant year in his last in the WHL.

Palushaj: Improved from lackluster his lackluster rookie production to be a strong offensive player for Hamilton (57 points in 68 games). Will likely be the offensive leader of next years Bulldogs.

Good Years:
Engqvist: Not as much of his offensive translated to the AHL as hoped (25 points in 71 games, about half the effective production he had in SEL considering relative difficulties). But he played the role he was expected to play well. Everyone I've heard from considers him to be a top defensive forward and faceoff beast in the AHL.

Bournival: Improved production and was a late cut to Canada's WJC team as an 18 year old. Will make the national team next year. Has another year in the Q to improve further before AHL.

Disappontments:
Leblanc: Was not as dominant in the Q as a 19 year-old as hoped. Shoulder injury likely cause as he was a 1.4 ppg player before it happened. Was solid for team Canada despite apparent injury. Lead all Q players in shots per game (~4.7), likely had conversion problems due to shoulder problems. Plays in Hamilton next year which should show his true mettle. I was very impressed by his pre-season play on an uninjured shoulder for what its worth.
He also had to overcome the wrist injury suffered in Harvard which limited him.
Kristo: Year from hell from him. Had difficulty scoring early in the season. Reports indicate snake-bitten rather than playing bad. Recovered in second half but overall yearly production below first year (0.88 PPG to 0.81 PPG). Then had season cut short by frostbite. Made a return and played very well in the NCAA playoffs and Frozen Four so lasting damage unlikely. Needs another NCAA season to rebound and become dominant at that level before progressing to AHL.
Kristo had his icetime cut back for Brock Nelson and Corbin Knight.
Dumont: After a 53 goal, 93 point season in the Q last year did not translate offensive prowess to AHL. Played energy role and scored 15 points in 51 games. Will probably get a shot as a AHL top 6 player next season.
Dumont played with Sean Couturier,but was great with Vachon on the PK and a high energy player.
Avtsin: After a good year for a 18 year old in the KHL (9 points in 30 games with limited ice) had difficulty transistioning game to North America. Which really should be expected from a young Russian that didn't play CHL. New chance next season to show he's learned how to play AHL defense and get to play real minutes.
Avtsin was just starting to score in the KHL when he had his wrist broken and didn't heal from that injury until January and then he was sick after.Plus he has the change of style to deal with and language barriers.Don't give up on him he's a winner.

These don't look great but keep in mind that most of the prospect success stories at the AHL level did so well that they secured NHL berths (Pacioretty, Desharnais, White, Weber).

That's the gist for the forwards, I'll let someone else handle the defense.
The disappointments aren't really as bad as you think.As I have written below your comments.

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Old
06-01-2011, 01:10 AM
  #862
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The disappointments aren't really as bad as you think.As I have written below your comments.
There are good reasons why these guys disappointed and its not like they are bad prospects. I expect all of them to shrug off their problems from this year and continue their upward trajectory. However, then it will be someone else's turn for things to go wrong. I would think that I could speak for everyone when saying that we'd like it if they'd been able do more this last season. Like Leblanc being a recognizably dominant force in the Q, Kristo being too good for his ice-time to be reduced, Avtsin's transition to be smoother or more of Dumont's 50 goal mojo working for him in his rAHL rookie year.

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06-01-2011, 02:31 AM
  #863
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I agree with your analysis of performance of our prospects. I would add two names.

Under disappointements : Steve Quailer. First because 13 points for a 21 years old sophomore player isn't much but also because when I saw him on streams, not only was he passive but I did not see any creativity or offensive flare.

Under very good year: Alexei Emelin. I must admit that two years ago, I had pretty much lost any faith in him. This year has proven me wrong. I still don't think he is going to be anything more than a 5-6th dman in the NHL.

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06-01-2011, 09:00 AM
  #864
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Wasn't around much this year, anyone got a rundown on our overall prospects play for this year? Had a quick check and most of them had underwhelming seasons.

Especially disappointed in Tinordi, wasn't particularly hot for him in the draft last year (Etem was my first choice), not to mention I liked Merrill a lot better in terms of D. To make things worse, Merrill seems to have taken the 1 D spot at Michigan as a freshman.

So anyone got some context for our guys or is it just a bad year?
Here's a recap of the season on most of our prospects,

http://www.habprospects.com/modules....rticle&sid=157

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06-01-2011, 09:47 AM
  #865
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Here's a recap of the season on most of our prospects,

http://www.habprospects.com/modules....rticle&sid=157
great read once again!

Thanks montreal

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06-01-2011, 10:05 AM
  #866
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I agree with your analysis of performance of our prospects. I would add two names.

Under disappointements : Steve Quailer. First because 13 points for a 21 years old sophomore player isn't much but also because when I saw him on streams, not only was he passive but I did not see any creativity or offensive flare.

Under very good year: Alexei Emelin. I must admit that two years ago, I had pretty much lost any faith in him. This year has proven me wrong. I still don't think he is going to be anything more than a 5-6th dman in the NHL.
I give Quailer a pass as this is his first season back since being redshirted. Not playing for an entire year must really be hard on a guy.

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06-01-2011, 10:12 AM
  #867
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^Nice to see the write ups! Are you going to write up a Draft Preview this year?

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06-01-2011, 10:12 AM
  #868
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I give Quailer a pass as this is his first season back since being redshirted. Not playing for an entire year must really be hard on a guy.
Especially a teenager. If he was a veteran NHLer that has already learned everything to his abilities it's a different story.

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06-01-2011, 10:15 AM
  #869
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Here's a recap of the season on most of our prospects,

http://www.habprospects.com/modules....rticle&sid=157
Thanks montreal. Hope to see you around this summer!

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06-01-2011, 10:18 AM
  #870
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The highlight from last season that still give me hope for Quailer to return to being a promising prospect:



Looks like a giant.

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06-01-2011, 11:04 AM
  #871
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Originally Posted by katatoniak View Post
great read once again!

Thanks montreal
Thanks, glad you liked the article

Quote:
Originally Posted by pc_md View Post
Under disappointements : Steve Quailer. First because 13 points for a 21 years old sophomore player isn't much but also because when I saw him on streams, not only was he passive but I did not see any creativity or offensive flare.
Everytime I've seen Quailer, he appears to be very passive, it's a shame that someone that's 6'4 plays such a soft game but I don't know if the knee injury hampered his game as he did look a little slower.

Quote:
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^Nice to see the write ups! Are you going to write up a Draft Preview this year?
I don't think so, I this year I got away from watching any of the draft eligble guys and focused mainly on watching every Hamilton game and a bunch of NCAA games. I have a few games saved that are prospect related that I might get around to but don't think I will be able to put together a draft article.

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06-01-2011, 12:19 PM
  #872
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Here's a recap of the season on most of our prospects,

http://www.habprospects.com/modules....rticle&sid=157
Thanks a bunch

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06-01-2011, 04:34 PM
  #873
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London Knights traded Bobkov (WJC Russian goalie) to Kingston. I guess they're just confident in Houser...

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06-01-2011, 04:55 PM
  #874
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I believe we have lost the rights to the great Petteri Simila.

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06-01-2011, 04:58 PM
  #875
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I believe we have lost the rights to the great Petteri Simila.
We did. I'll have to look back as I recall have a little debate on who was the better goalie, Simila or Missiaen. I said Missiaen was better, not sure why the rangers signed him recently but maybe he got better from when I last saw him. Simila looked worse then Lacasse, too bad we actually traded a pick to get him.

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