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Vanek on Roy's absence: "...I've gotten the puck more"

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Old
02-10-2011, 09:03 PM
  #26
vein
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i don't understand this whole thing. vanek was without roy before and didn't do any wonders, as far as i can recall it.

it's called a hot streak, guys. don't get overly excited.

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02-10-2011, 10:39 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timbo Slice View Post
I don't think it's a shot at Roy. But when Roy comes back, we shouldn't put them back together. Get Vanek someone who can feed him the puck, not the other way around.
this.

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02-10-2011, 10:42 PM
  #28
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Meh, I still think a line of Vanek-Roy-Pominville would tear it up if given the chance...

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02-10-2011, 10:59 PM
  #29
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Maybe it's a result of Roy's and Vanek's handedness?

Roy is a left-handed center. Vanek is a right-handed LW. So in other words, most passes between them would be backhand passes. Not exactly ideal from a practical standpoint.

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02-10-2011, 11:05 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kassian View Post
Maybe it's a result of Roy's and Vanek's handedness?

Roy is a left-handed center. Vanek is a right-handed LW. So in other words, when Roy passes to Vanek (and vice-versa) it's usually backhand to backhand. Not exactly ideal from a practical standpoint.
I remember when the Ennis-Roy-Vanek line was formed, they all played great, and that's the first time that Vanek showed any signs of stepping up this year (in fact he looked better then than he does now IMO). Then for whatever reason Ennis was taken off that line, Vanek was put back on LW and he started to slow down a bit more. So that could be a factor.

I think it's mainly because Vanek is finding different ways to make plays now. He's not just skating North-South looking for a cross-ice pass, he's getting himself to open ice more when he has the puck and when he doesn't have the puck. Whether that's because of Roy or not I really don't know though.

Roy can be a bit of a puck hog at times, but not always. The Ennis-Roy-Vanek line tore it up for a period of time because each player on that line got to hold the puck and make something happen, and the other two who didn't have the puck were making a conscious effort to keep the play alive, they weren't just stopping in front of the net waiting for a pass or rebound.

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02-10-2011, 11:12 PM
  #31
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I think Vanek is more frustrated that the Sabres system has him squatting in front of the net more than carrying the puck. He's implied the same in past interviews. If anything it's a shot at the system, not Roy, but personally I don't think it's either.

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02-11-2011, 07:33 AM
  #32
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Was driving to work at 3:30 this morning asking myself why we seem to be a better team without Roy...

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02-11-2011, 04:22 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/sabres-nhl/article337409.ece



Well... Now it's public that he doesn't care to play on Roy's line. I know there were no true malintentions with the above, but this screams masked shot whether intended or not.

Truth to it? Stretching it a bit?
What?

Where in the world is that stated or even implied?

Vanek stated the obvious. That with Roy out he gets the puck on his stick more.


Quote:
The team, sans Roy, isn't necessarily better IMO - but VANEK sans Roy is different. Do you make anything of the quote?

I do love that fact that Pommer getting put with Vanek is continually ignored in all of this (as is Pommer's play). Vanek was pointless the first 2 games after Roy went down. Then Pommer was put wth him and Vanek's production took off.


But many of the same people that hammer Roy also like to take potshots at Pommer. So its not shocking his hand in this is ignored.


I do love that when Vanek struggles or has issues. Its NEVER his fault. Then when he is producing and playing at a high level its all Vanek's doing. He is in beast mode carrying the team on his back.

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02-11-2011, 04:27 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MillerFan1 View Post
Was driving to work at 3:30 this morning asking myself why we seem to be a better team without Roy...
I don't think that's true. This team always makes a run this time of year, especially if they on the outside looking in.

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02-11-2011, 04:30 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/sabres-nhl/article337409.ece



Well... Now it's public that he doesn't care to play on Roy's line. I know there were no true malintentions with the above, but this screams masked shot whether intended or not.

Truth to it? Stretching it a bit?

The team, sans Roy, isn't necessarily better IMO - but VANEK sans Roy is different. Do you make anything of the quote?
Where did he say he doesn't care to play with Roy? Talk about making something up.

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Old
02-11-2011, 04:35 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Kassian View Post
Maybe it's a result of Roy's and Vanek's handedness?

Roy is a left-handed center. Vanek is a right-handed LW. So in other words, most passes between them would be backhand passes. Not exactly ideal from a practical standpoint.
That's kinda funny, didn't you ever play hockey? You are allowed to turn.

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02-11-2011, 04:42 PM
  #37
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I don't think that's true. This team always makes a run this time of year, especially if they on the outside looking in.
07/08
January
4-5-4

February
9-4-2

TOTAL: 13-9-6


08/09
January
9-4-0

February
5-6-2

TOTAL: 14-10-2


09/10
January
8-3-3

February
1-4-2

TOTAL: 9-7-5


10/11
January
8-3-1

February
3-1-0

TOTAL: 11-4-1


The last 2 years we've had a losing record in February. And we seem to go on a hot streak for either the month of January or February, and do poorly the other month.

Hopefully that doesn't mean we'll go on a big losing streak soon .

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02-11-2011, 04:50 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by BikeGiftingMan View Post
I'd argue that Afinogenov had more to do with it than Roy, but it's not a huge deal.

The season he was refering to (07-08) Max was a non-entity and was hardly helping anyone offensively. He was in and out of the lineup with a groin injury and it was the year after his wrist injury. You're thinking of 06-07. Although asserting Max was a bg reason for Vaenk's prodcution that year is pretty ironic in the context of this discussion. Since Vanek obviously got the puck far less that year with Max and Roy on his line.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Barr View Post
Meh, I still think a line of Vanek-Roy-Pominville would tear it up if given the chance...

Would love to see it tried.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MillerFan1 View Post
Was driving to work at 3:30 this morning asking myself why we seem to be a better team without Roy...
I think its fairly obvious a bunch of key players got their heads out of their ***** and started playing better.

In all the fawning over Vanek (rightfully so) the improved play of many players has been overlooked or not focused on as much. Its hard (and ridiculous) for even the biggest Roy haters to argue that all those players were held back because Roy was in the lineup.


Btw The Ducks went 10-4 with Getzlaf out and Perry was a ppg player without him.

In the 15 games since Crosby was injured, the Pens are 9-5-1 and thats with Malkin only playing in 7 of those games. After losing the first 3 games after Crosby was injured the Pens actually went 8-1 in the next 9 games before undestandebly losing 2 after Malkin's injury. So they were 8-3-1 without Crosby before Malkin's knee injury.

Would anyone with a brain cell suggest the Ducks are better off without Getzlaf or the Pens without Crosby (or Malkin)?


This isn't to put Roy on the level of Getzlaf or Crosby (he obviously isn't). Its to point out that in team sports their are unmeasureable dynamics that happen when other players are asked to step up after a major injury. Sometimes they do and sometimes they don't. But things are never as simplistic as some on here try to make it.


Last edited by joshjull: 02-11-2011 at 05:05 PM.
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Old
02-11-2011, 04:54 PM
  #39
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02-11-2011, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
?
This isn't to put Roy on the level of Getzlaf or Crosby (heobviouslisn't). Its to point out that in team sports their are unmeasureable dynamics that happen when other players are asked to step up are carry a bigger load after a major injury. Sometimes they do and sometimes they don't. But things are never as simplistic as some on here try to make it.
Not a fan of the generalization.

With your eyes open. Do you see a difference on the ice, on a shift to shift basis, that can be related to Roys absence?

I do.

i saw it almost immediately, and posted about it after 6 games... now everyone else is seeing it too...

When i talk about the things i dislike about Roy's game... the past few weeks have reinforced those beliefs in concrete.

the measurable dynamic is the players stepping up have the opportunity to do so BECAUSE of Roy being out. With Roy those players simply dont have such opportunity.

my guess is that the puck is on Vanek's stick 3x as much with Roy out.

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02-11-2011, 05:18 PM
  #41
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I wonder if they would consider trading Roy in the offseason?

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02-11-2011, 05:35 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Not a fan of the generalization.

With your eyes open. Do you see a difference on the ice, on a shift to shift basis, that can be related to Roys absence?

I do.

i saw it almost immediately, and posted about it after 6 games... now everyone else is seeing it too...

When i talk about the things i dislike about Roy's game... the past few weeks have reinforced those beliefs in concrete.

the measurable dynamic is the players stepping up have the opportunity to do so BECAUSE of Roy being out. With Roy those players simply dont have such opportunity.

my guess is that the puck is on Vanek's stick 3x as much with Roy out.
I would interpert this as we need to fire Ruff, as he is the system maker.

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02-11-2011, 05:47 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Not a fan of the generalization.

With your eyes open. Do you see a difference on the ice, on a shift to shift basis, that can be related to Roys absence?

I do.

i saw it almost immediately, and posted about it after 6 games... now everyone else is seeing it too...

When i talk about the things i dislike about Roy's game... the past few weeks have reinforced those beliefs in concrete.

the measurable dynamic is the players stepping up have the opportunity to do so BECAUSE of Roy being out. With Roy those players simply dont have such opportunity.

my guess is that the puck is on Vanek's stick 3x as much with Roy out.
Pominville rarely plays with Roy at ES and he's near point/game since Roy went out. Pommer has also put up similar stretches in past seasons--usually at the end of the season. I don't see how Roy's absence has any effect on him at ES.

And it's not like Stafford was sucking when Roy was healthy and in the lineup. He had 9 goals in 19 games with Roy, which is a 39-goal pace over 82 games. Pretty good. Stafford was their best forward after Roy early in the season. I was shouting it from the rooftops, but I was probably drowned out by the calls to trade Stafford for a 2nd rounder "while his value is high."

So, we get back to the real point: all of this is little more than Vanek fans trying to pin the team's and Vanek's struggles on Derek Roy. And that's because nothing is ever Thomas Vanek's fault to these people. Ever. Frankly, I'm surprised they haven't blamed Ruff or Roy for Vanek's past conditioning problems--then again, to them, he probably never had any conditioning issues.

They give themselves away when they say this stretch "proves" Roy is the problem and should be moved. Nevermind confusing correlation and causation, don't people wonder to themselves, "wait, why don't we just keep both, keep them separated at ES and on the PP, and build two lines around Vanek-Pommer and Roy-Stafford." It's because they don't want Roy here. Roy is the oppressor, Vanek the oppressed.

But Zip, wasn't Roy the center for Vanek when he scored 43 goals and 87 pts? Or when he had 119 goals in a span of three seasons? SHHHHH!!! Move along, nothing to see there; instead, let's focus on these 18 games.

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02-11-2011, 05:48 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Kassian View Post
I wonder if they would consider trading Roy in the offseason?
I hope not. Our center depth is awful enough as it is.

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02-11-2011, 06:09 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
Pominville rarely plays with Roy at ES and he's near point/game since Roy went out. Pommer has also put up similar stretches in past seasons--usually at the end of the season. I don't see how Roy's absence has any effect on him at ES.

And it's not like Stafford was sucking when Roy was healthy and in the lineup. He had 9 goals in 19 games with Roy, which is a 39-goal pace over 82 games. Pretty good. Stafford was their best forward after Roy early in the season. I was shouting it from the rooftops, but I was probably drowned out by the calls to trade Stafford for a 2nd rounder "while his value is high."

So, we get back to the real point: all of this is little more than Vanek fans trying to pin the team's and Vanek's struggles on Derek Roy. And that's because nothing is ever Thomas Vanek's fault to these people. Ever. Frankly, I'm surprised they haven't blamed Ruff or Roy for Vanek's past conditioning problems--then again, to them, he probably never had any conditioning issues.

They give themselves away when they say this stretch "proves" Roy is the problem and should be moved. Nevermind confusing correlation and causation, don't people wonder to themselves, "wait, why don't we just keep both, keep them separated at ES and on the PP, and build two lines around Vanek-Pommer and Roy-Stafford." It's because they don't want Roy here. Roy is the oppressor, Vanek the oppressed.

But Zip, wasn't Roy the center for Vanek when he scored 43 goals and 87 pts? Or when he had 119 goals in a span of three seasons? SHHHHH!!! Move along, nothing to see there; instead, let's focus on these 18 games.
I'd like to see Roy and Pominville or Vanek & Pominville together down the road, but not all three.

Pommerz is a great complimentary player to a creator, which Vanek and Roy are. In the future, I'd like to see Vanek-Adam-Kassian, ????(Hecht?)-Roy-Pominville & Ennis-????-Stafford as three lines.

I might be putting too much stock in our prospects, but Adam is a guy who, like Pominville, knows what to do with the puck when it's on his stick in scoring position. If Kassian could come in and create space, that line could work wonders on paper.

Find a LW who can forecheck/work the boards for Roy/Pominville and that combination could work well, as long as Roy plays the way we've seen him play when he's not forcing the puck to Vanek.

Finally, find a two-way center to make up for Ennis/Stafford's defensive, um, game, and I think this team would be able to run 3 very, very dangerous lines, without having to break the bank.

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02-11-2011, 06:11 PM
  #46
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Pominville rarely plays with Roy at ES and he's near point/game since Roy went out. Pommer has also put up similar stretches in past seasons--usually at the end of the season. I don't see how Roy's absence has any effect on him at ES.

And it's not like Stafford was sucking when Roy was healthy and in the lineup. He had 9 goals in 19 games with Roy, which is a 39-goal pace over 82 games. Pretty good. Stafford was their best forward after Roy early in the season. I was shouting it from the rooftops, but I was probably drowned out by the calls to trade Stafford for a 2nd rounder "while his value is high."

So, we get back to the real point: all of this is little more than Vanek fans trying to pin the team's and Vanek's struggles on Derek Roy. And that's because nothing is ever Thomas Vanek's fault to these people. Ever. Frankly, I'm surprised they haven't blamed Ruff or Roy for Vanek's past conditioning problems--then again, to them, he probably never had any conditioning issues.

They give themselves away when they say this stretch "proves" Roy is the problem and should be moved. Nevermind confusing correlation and causation, don't people wonder to themselves, "wait, why don't we just keep both, keep them separated at ES and on the PP, and build two lines around Vanek-Pommer and Roy-Stafford." It's because they don't want Roy here. Roy is the oppressor, Vanek the oppressed.

But Zip, wasn't Roy the center for Vanek when he scored 43 goals and 87 pts? Or when he had 119 goals in a span of three seasons? SHHHHH!!! Move along, nothing to see there; instead, let's focus on these 18 games.
Excellent post. Couldn't agree more.

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02-11-2011, 08:02 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
Pominville rarely plays with Roy at ES and he's near point/game since Roy went out. Pommer has also put up similar stretches in past seasons--usually at the end of the season. I don't see how Roy's absence has any effect on him at ES.

And it's not like Stafford was sucking when Roy was healthy and in the lineup. He had 9 goals in 19 games with Roy, which is a 39-goal pace over 82 games. Pretty good. Stafford was their best forward after Roy early in the season. I was shouting it from the rooftops, but I was probably drowned out by the calls to trade Stafford for a 2nd rounder "while his value is high."

So, we get back to the real point: all of this is little more than Vanek fans trying to pin the team's and Vanek's struggles on Derek Roy. And that's because nothing is ever Thomas Vanek's fault to these people. Ever. Frankly, I'm surprised they haven't blamed Ruff or Roy for Vanek's past conditioning problems--then again, to them, he probably never had any conditioning issues.

They give themselves away when they say this stretch "proves" Roy is the problem and should be moved. Nevermind confusing correlation and causation, don't people wonder to themselves, "wait, why don't we just keep both, keep them separated at ES and on the PP, and build two lines around Vanek-Pommer and Roy-Stafford." It's because they don't want Roy here. Roy is the oppressor, Vanek the oppressed.

But Zip, wasn't Roy the center for Vanek when he scored 43 goals and 87 pts? Or when he had 119 goals in a span of three seasons? SHHHHH!!! Move along, nothing to see there; instead, let's focus on these 18 games.


Excellent commentary. Makes the fanboy posts in this thread stand out as very, very childish.

This streak is good for Vanek, and good for the Sabres... it has little to do with Derek Roy.

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02-11-2011, 09:46 PM
  #48
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Excellent commentary. Makes the fanboy posts in this thread stand out as very, very childish.

This streak is good for Vanek, and good for the Sabres... it has little to do with Derek Roy.
it has very much to do with Roy.

Zip can point to 3 years ago, and the past, and other players....but if u put the video of the last 18 games up and tell me Roy's absence isn't factor #1 in Vanek's and the PP's production...then i call u a liar.

the tape doesnt lie


Last edited by vcv: 02-12-2011 at 12:43 AM.
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02-11-2011, 09:53 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
it has very much to do with Roy.

Zip can point to 3 years ago, and the past, and other players....but if u put the video of the last 18 games up and tell me Roy's absence isn't factor #1 in Vanek's and the PP's production...then i call u a liar.

the tape doesnt lie
I'll throw my hat in Jame's ring , Roy needs to quicker and smarter, especially on the PP.


Last edited by vcv: 02-12-2011 at 12:43 AM.
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Old
02-11-2011, 10:07 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
Pominville rarely plays with Roy at ES and he's near point/game since Roy went out. Pommer has also put up similar stretches in past seasons--usually at the end of the season. I don't see how Roy's absence has any effect on him at ES.

And it's not like Stafford was sucking when Roy was healthy and in the lineup. He had 9 goals in 19 games with Roy, which is a 39-goal pace over 82 games. Pretty good. Stafford was their best forward after Roy early in the season. I was shouting it from the rooftops, but I was probably drowned out by the calls to trade Stafford for a 2nd rounder "while his value is high."

So, we get back to the real point: all of this is little more than Vanek fans trying to pin the team's and Vanek's struggles on Derek Roy. And that's because nothing is ever Thomas Vanek's fault to these people. Ever. Frankly, I'm surprised they haven't blamed Ruff or Roy for Vanek's past conditioning problems--then again, to them, he probably never had any conditioning issues.

They give themselves away when they say this stretch "proves" Roy is the problem and should be moved. Nevermind confusing correlation and causation, don't people wonder to themselves, "wait, why don't we just keep both, keep them separated at ES and on the PP, and build two lines around Vanek-Pommer and Roy-Stafford." It's because they don't want Roy here. Roy is the oppressor, Vanek the oppressed.

But Zip, wasn't Roy the center for Vanek when he scored 43 goals and 87 pts? Or when he had 119 goals in a span of three seasons? SHHHHH!!! Move along, nothing to see there; instead, let's focus on these 18 games.
where's the straw man emoticon?

I want to talk about the last 18 games, do you?

Vanek's conditioning sucks.
Vanek's ability to receive a pass is weak
Vanek's effort in the d zone is nearly non existant
Vanek is better offensively without Roy

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