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Chichura ready to learn french?

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Old
06-29-2004, 11:16 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nash13
Does anyone know for sure whether Koivu ever learned French or tried, or whether he simply doesn't feel comfortable speaking it? People (members of a certain media clique) told us he hasn't and have used it as ammo, but I haven't heard it from Koivu's mouth, and I don't believe that faction of the media.

Although in some defense of Koivu, with regards to how SOME members of the French media have treated the captain, it might be for the better he doesn't converse in French. It would give them further ammo in playing with what he intented on meaning.
Doesn't Koivu's wife speak french? This, IMAO, is enough on the part of Koivu.

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06-29-2004, 11:18 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beatnik
Agree 100%,

It's fun to see that after 6 months, most english guys playing in the Q league speaks a very honorable French. NHLers simply don't want to have to give interviews in both language.

B.Savage and J.Ward speaks good french, has one of them learned it in here?
I believe Savage is from Sudbury and they have a French community and Ward is from Northern Ont. also in a bilingual environment. I'd be curious as to whether some players, as posted, speak some French but are shy about being interviewed. I believe it was a long time before Brisebois would do an English interview as he wasn't very confident. You mention how a lot of Jr. age kids learn quickly, I saw Urqurhat do an interview in French and was quite impressed with his poise.

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06-29-2004, 11:30 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nash13
Although in some defense of Koivu, with regards to how SOME members of the French media have treated the captain, it might be for the better he doesn't converse in French. It would give them further ammo in playing with what he intented on meaning.
No I don't think so. From my experience of watching french Q medias, they are very aware of the mistakes a non-french would make and they will not use against the non-french person saying he intented on meaning. Except TQS; whitch is a stupid tv channel for low class people (their News broadcast's presentation looks like an Arnold Swatzngger movie with fire all around, oh and they have the 110% show, but this show is entertaining).

I wonder if it's possible for Koivu to hire a private french teacher when he is in Finland (summer time). 2 classes a week and a good classical french movie on dvd for Saku and his wife. It could help. I guess it can be possible for someone who search a private teacher, who have the means to hire a private teacher. But first he must want it.

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06-30-2004, 01:00 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruinsGirl
I completely agree! Living in French atmosphere helps alot. It practically a cheep way to do it.

I love learning new languages. Besides my native Russian and second Ukrainian(which suffered greatly because I didn't hear it for the last 8 year) I've learned some Hebrew, Spanish and would gladly learn French. It makes travels in Europe more convenient etc.
I would SO love to learn Russian

Very cool that you know so many languages!

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06-30-2004, 01:10 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duster
Perhaps you are being too harsh Vlad. I think Chipchura is his own man...
Possible. But you would be frightened if you knew how well the agents prepare them.

90% of what comes out of players' mouths is bull****. That's for all players and specially for prospects. They tell them everything.

Daniel Paille is a real warrior too and I have seen how his agent prepared him for interviews. I think it completely sucks and I have little respect.

Then after that, some people freak out when real players with balls like Roenick or Hull tell you what they really think instead of feeding us cliches

Give me honest players instead of 18 years old who try to tell me how impressed they are to play for a storied franchise or some other weak line they get from their puke-agents. I understand that diplomacy is needed but I would like to be able to trust the players more.

If I had a button on my computer to nuke all players' agents, I would press on it now with a smile on my face. ****ing cockroaches.

Now, as I said, I don't know whether it's the case with Chipchura. It is unwise at this point to make any comments.

I also think you raised a good point. Yes, it is probable that some players TRY to learn the laanguaage but just can't. You are right, we can't hold it against them. But considering the number of players who have promised this and never followed through, you have to admit that either this is a weird coincidence or many of them are bull****ing us

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06-30-2004, 01:18 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beatnik
B.Savage and J.Ward speaks good french, has one of them learned it in here?
I think Ward's mother's (can I say it like this?) first language is French.

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06-30-2004, 01:33 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
Then after that, some people freak out when real players with balls like Roenick or Hull tell you what they really think instead of feeding us cliches
Who do you refer to when you say "some people"? The league and the players might not like to hear what those guys have to say for obvious reasons, but I think every fan, in agreement or not with what is being said, is glad to hear them speak their minds.

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06-30-2004, 01:49 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Munchausen
Who do you refer to when you say "some people"? The league and the players might not like to hear what those guys have to say for obvious reasons, but I think every fan, in agreement or not with what is being said, is glad to hear them speak their minds.
Don't forget, a lot of fans actually BELIEVE the bull**** the players have rehearsed with their agents. That's why agents and players do that.

Consequently, those people who buy that crap are often very offended when they hear genuine comments. Look under many threads concerning guys who speak their minds like Hull, Roenick, Kovalchuk and a few others and there's always a bunch of people who are completely freaked out and shocked.

They'd be even more in shock if they knew what the other players really think. People are easily manipulated and a lot of them would be offended by the truth anyway.

I should say "some people" means just that. Not everybody buys the cliches but a surprising number of fans like it that way. They like the boring cliches, made-up statements and lies and most of them refer to it as "classy".

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06-30-2004, 07:28 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markov79
Very mature move. Hopefully this will keep all but the most annoying french media off his back if he ever makes it. Any idea which other prospects Habs tried picking up french?
He was not picked iso of a french canadian player. So he won't be annoyed by the french media.

French media don't care about the language, all the say, and I agree with them, is sometime just to say MERCI is a very nice gesture. And it shows the player care.

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06-30-2004, 08:33 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beatnik
B.Savage and J.Ward speaks good french, has one of them learned it in here?
The thing I don't get is why aren't practically all Ontario-educated players able to at least get by in French? Has the education system changed much? I mean, it was mandatory from Grade 4 to like Grade 10 or something to take French when I was a kid, and you'd end up at least passably able to get by on that. If you continued through to Grade 13, you'd come out pretty much bilingual. I haven't used French in over 15 years, but I know when I finished high school I was pretty fluent, and we even wrote novellas in French in Grade 13 at one point.

I've always wondered that about our players, at least the Ontario-educated ones. I would've thought they'd all be basically like Ward. What am I missing?

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06-30-2004, 08:37 AM
  #36
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Chipchura will learn French

Good for him. However, I don't think it's that important for the fans. The French media make a big deal out of it, but not the fans. As a young French Canadian kid growing up in Montreal in the fifties, you'd think that my two favorites Habs' players had to be Rocket Richard and Jean Béliveau. Wrong! They were Dickie Moore and Doug Harvey.

Dickie Moore spoke a bit of French but Doug Harvey didn't speak a word and didn't make any effort to learn the language, the same as Mike Kean and Saku Koivu fifty years later. Once everything was said and done, Doug Harvey was in the Hall of Fame and his number 2 was retired and put up in the rafters along with the numbers of the greatest players in Hab's history. In the 50's, the Habs formed one big family and language wasn't that big an issue.

Chad Kilger was an Anglo who spoke French quite well and it didn't help him at all to attract fan support. Dale Hunter didn't speak French and he probably was the most popular player in the history of the Nordiques in Quebec city, even ahead of Peter Statsny and Michel Goulet.

Bob Gainey and Larry Robinson's efforts to learn French were surely appreciated by the large base of francophone fans in the province of Quebec but they gained respect and admiration by what they achieved on the ice and not behind a mike.


Last edited by rocketlives: 06-30-2004 at 08:55 AM.
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06-30-2004, 08:59 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketlives
Good for him. However, I don't think it's that important for the fans. The French media make a big deal out of it, but not the fans. As a young French Canadian kid growing up in Montreal in the fifties, you'd think that my two favorites Habs' players had to be Rocket Richard and Jean Béliveau. Wrong! They were Dickie Moore and Doug Harvey.

Dickie Moore spoke a bit a French but Doug Harvey didn't speak a word and didn't make any effort to learn the language, the same as Mike Kean and Saku Koivu fifty years later. Once everything was said and done, Doug Harvey was in the Hall of Fame and his number 2 was retired and put up in the rafters along with the numbers of the greatest players in Hab's history. In the 50's, the Habs formed one big family and language wasn't that big an issue.

Chad Kilger was an Anglo who spoke French quite well and it didn't help him at all to attract fan support. Dale Hunter didn't speak French and he probably was the most popular player in the history of the Nordiques in Quebec city, even ahead of Peter Statsny and Michel Goulet.

Bob Gainey and Larry Robinson's efforts to learn French were surely appreciated by the large base of francophone fans in the province of Quebec but they gained respect and admiration by what they achieved on the ice and not behind a mike.
If you think that not having some local boy is not important to the fans, you are missing the train big time.

As for the HABS in the 50's, talk to Bobby Rousseau, Pocket Rocket, Butch Bouchard and other old-timers to see if the Habs were really a big family.

For Robinson and Gainer, they were loved and respected even more because of that.

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06-30-2004, 09:18 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefan_Latulippe
If you think that not having some local boy is not important to the fans, you are missing the train big time.

As for the HABS in the 50's, talk to Bobby Rousseau, Pocket Rocket, Butch Bouchard and other old-timers to see if the Habs were really a big family.

For Robinson and Gainer, they were loved and respected even more because of that.
Having local boys who can help your team go all the way is important, but I'm sure a majority of the Habs' francophone fans could probaly do without most of the local boys we've had on this team in the last 10 years.

The language of work in the NHL is English. Even Jean Béliveau had to speak English in the dressing room and in team meetings. I recognize that being bilingual, especially in a city like Montreal, is a plus, but it's not a must. Kyle Chipchura doesn't have to become another Bob Gainey. If he could only become another Mike McPhee, I'd be quite happy. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad he's willing to learn French.


Last edited by rocketlives: 06-30-2004 at 12:36 PM.
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06-30-2004, 10:24 AM
  #39
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Let me start by saying I'm also french canadian. I also want to chip in with my opinion. So here it is...

For those of you who think language is not that big of a deal let me bring up one exemple : Jose Theodore.

If Theodore was a czech there's no way he'd have been asked to appear at La Fureur, in Mikes and Vachon commercials. There's also no way he would have won the Molson Cup back in 02-03. There's just no way the media are so forgiving about that 02-03 season if he is not a good french canadian kid. After his dream season of 01-02 he made people remember of the great Guy Lafleur as the last habs player to win the Hart Memorial trophy and was a balm on the still fresh wound that was the departure of Roy. He became a hero for all the youngsters and had a pop star image with french canadian girls teenagers. I just don't see that happening if his last name is Theodorov.

Ask any french canadian between 5 and 50 who are their favourite goaltenders and the answer you'll get is either Theodore or Roy. Yet Dryden had much more success with the habs and accomplished as much if not more than either Theodore or Roy have with the habs.

Language obviously is a big issue in Mtl. I don't think it's wrong. Send Roy or Hasek in their prime in Russia while Tretiak is also in his prime and the most popular goalie will undoubtedly be Tretiak. It's human nature, it's just normal.

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06-30-2004, 10:44 AM
  #40
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There's a few different issues flying around here:

1) I think it's commendable that Chipchura is willing to learn French...it is true this may just be a line that he's throwing out as a nice sound bite, but until he's proven wrong, there's no evidence to not take him at his word;

2) I was born in Montreal and raised in Ontario in French Immersion and my French is pretty horrible...I would say my accent has been destroyed since I left high school and while I'm still bilingual, most Quebecois and certainly all Parisians cringe when I speak...they still understand me and will speak to me, but it ain't the most beautiful French you ever heard...and my point is that Ontario French education is essentially worthless...aptitude in a language...particularly spoken French requires regular use and most French classes in Ontario do not provide that. I spoke French more often than most students since I was in immersion but most students are not...so don't be surprised that Canadian players can't speak or understand French even though they may have taken it in school...

3) Not all agents are bad...and to think that they are unnecessary is just wrong...as we will soon find out with collective bargaining, owners and players are motivated by self-interest, but owners and management are infinitely more educated on financial matters than players. Agents are important...not all of them are good, and there are problems, but to say they all suck is a bit extreme.

I hope Chipchura turns out well and sets a good example for our other prospects. Having said that though, there's a bunch of other prospects who are closer to making the big club who need to be leading the way for him. After all, he's still going back to Junior next year.

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06-30-2004, 11:01 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beatnik
Agree 100%,


J.Ward speaks good french, has one of them learned it in here?

Ward is from a small northern town ..Chapleau, I believe, and up there it is pretty common to speak both languages. Plus the number of French residents in small northern towns is quite high because of its proximity to northern Quebec. Stil two languages are better than one...even if the other is drunkenese..or homerese

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06-30-2004, 11:12 AM
  #42
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well, i am not excited at all if he spends this summer to learn french. I prefer he takes the time to improve his skating than learning french.

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06-30-2004, 11:16 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnq
well, i am not excited at all if he spends this summer to learn french. I prefer he takes the time to improve his skating than learning french.
His skating???

Hes actually a very good skater from what i hear. His was ranked one of the best North American skaters before being drafted, so i dont think theres a problem there. Id rather he works on conditioning, and his offensive game-----shoting, puckhandeling, etc. But, why not work on everything, you just cant go wrong that way!

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06-30-2004, 11:30 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mooch
His skating???

Hes actually a very good skater from what i hear. His was ranked one of the best North American skaters before being drafted, so i dont think theres a problem there. Id rather he works on conditioning, and his offensive game-----shoting, puckhandeling, etc. But, why not work on everything, you just cant go wrong that way!
ok, from what i read his skaking is just above the average, so he can do better. Yah, i agree with you, he could spend his time to improve whatever he needs rather than learning french for now. By the hard working on the ice, he will make people in Quebec love him. Remember, that kid is just only 18 yrs old. Give him the time. If he really wants to learn french, he can do that when he plays for big club in french environment.

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06-30-2004, 11:42 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnq
ok, from what i read his skaking is just above the average, so he can do better. Yah, i agree with you, he could spend his time to improve whatever he needs rather than learning french for now. By the hard working on the ice, he will make people in Quebec love him. Remember, that kid is just only 18 yrs old. Give him the time. If he really wants to learn french, he can do that when he plays for big club in french environment.
It seems to me like there are two basic interpretations on his skating... (I say "seems", because I haven't studied his skating closely first-hand)...

1. He has been on the scouting radar for a long time, and he has always been considered a good skater. (E.g. Mckeen's: "...very mobile and extremely fast... drives to the next... stickhandles well at high speeds... strong on his skates...").

2. Later on this season he was playing through a significant groin injury, which might have caused a few later-season reviewers (including those who saw him at the WU18) to label his skating as average.

I dunno, but I expect that playing half a year with a torn groin is going to make your skating look a bit below its normal level? Just a suggestion.


Further to that, I think it was mentioned in one of his interviews that doctors were recommending him to stay off skates and let things heal for a lengthy period, so like, maybe he *shouldn't* work on his skating this summer, and can in fact concentrate on his french studies.

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06-30-2004, 12:57 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien
It seems to me like there are two basic interpretations on his skating... (I say "seems", because I haven't studied his skating closely first-hand)...

1. He has been on the scouting radar for a long time, and he has always been considered a good skater. (E.g. Mckeen's: "...very mobile and extremely fast... drives to the next... stickhandles well at high speeds... strong on his skates...").

2. Later on this season he was playing through a significant groin injury, which might have caused a few later-season reviewers (including those who saw him at the WU18) to label his skating as average.

I dunno, but I expect that playing half a year with a torn groin is going to make your skating look a bit below its normal level? Just a suggestion.


Further to that, I think it was mentioned in one of his interviews that doctors were recommending him to stay off skates and let things heal for a lengthy period, so like, maybe he *shouldn't* work on his skating this summer, and can in fact concentrate on his french studies.
Good call on the pre/post injury comment.

I myself only saw Chipchura play before his injury and what I thought was that he had very good speed and good mobility. The only thing IMO he could still work on in that reguard is 1st step/acceleration which isn't uncommon for a big man. That being said, it's not bad by any means. He's not a speedster but I think he's a fast and very good all around skater.

Also, He seems pretty aware of what he needs to work on according to an interview he had with McKeen's. I like a hard working guy that sounds like he knows exactly what he needs to improve. That bodes well for his future progression.

Here's a sample from the interview:

Quote:
McKeens: What are areas of your game you feel you need to work on?

Kyle Chipchura: My shot release. It needs to get quicker. At the NHL level everyone talks about consistency and that is something I’m working on. I think it’s improved from last year, but sometimes when we’re in the third game in three nights it’s hard to be on your game every shift and that’s something I need to work on. I need to work on making the smart plays all the time and not trying to force a play. Also, I obviously need to work on my skating. Skating can always be improved and it’s important to getting to the next level. I’ve worked a lot on my skating over the summer, but it still needs improvement. I’m not as quick as I’d like be starting out, so I could improve there.

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06-30-2004, 01:23 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien
It seems to me like there are two basic interpretations on his skating... (I say "seems", because I haven't studied his skating closely first-hand)...

1. He has been on the scouting radar for a long time, and he has always been considered a good skater. (E.g. Mckeen's: "...very mobile and extremely fast... drives to the next... stickhandles well at high speeds... strong on his skates...").

2. Later on this season he was playing through a significant groin injury, which might have caused a few later-season reviewers (including those who saw him at the WU18) to label his skating as average.

I dunno, but I expect that playing half a year with a torn groin is going to make your skating look a bit below its normal level? Just a suggestion.


Further to that, I think it was mentioned in one of his interviews that doctors were recommending him to stay off skates and let things heal for a lengthy period, so like, maybe he *shouldn't* work on his skating this summer, and can in fact concentrate on his french studies.
personally, i "got" myself a groin injury 6 yrs ago, i could skate but as soon as i speeded up, it hurted like hell and i felt any force in my legs

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