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ATD 2011 Draft Thread IV

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Old
02-14-2011, 08:04 PM
  #251
matsblue13
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The Niagara City Blue will be selecting.... D/LW Doug Mohns

ahahah I was contemplating with many 90's superstars.

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02-14-2011, 08:06 PM
  #252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matsblue13 View Post
The Niagara City Blue will be selecting.... D/LW Doug Mohns

ahahah I was contemplating with many 90's superstars.
Good pick brej! I liked Mohns, but wanted to complete my first line.

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02-14-2011, 08:15 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by Velociraptor View Post
Good pick brej! I liked Mohns, but wanted to complete my first line.
If you ask me, the lw version of mohns would have been a better way to finish off that first line. A two-way, gritty glue guy like him would have been great for espo and balanced the skills of the line out more.

You say his speed might have been a bad thing; I don't think it could hurt.

IMO.

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02-14-2011, 08:17 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
Which star of the 90's will Matsblue pick next?
You must love his team so far. No vintage players.

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02-14-2011, 08:43 PM
  #255
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Oh, oops, sorry for not announcing the pick, I left thinking Hed was still online.

The Tidewater Sharks are pleased to select C Pat Lafontaine.

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02-14-2011, 08:45 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by vancityluongo View Post
Oh, oops, sorry for not announcing the pick, I left thinking Hed was still online.

The Tidewater Sharks are pleased to select C Pat Lafontaine.
Finally the Lafontaine free fall ends.

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02-14-2011, 08:45 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by vancityluongo View Post
Oh, oops, sorry for not announcing the pick, I left thinking Hed was still online.

The Tidewater Sharks are pleased to select C Pat Lafontaine.
I was just working on a quick bio for the post

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02-14-2011, 08:49 PM
  #258
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Tidewater selects C Pat Lafontaine



Captain of the Buffalo Sabres 1992-1997
1993 Second Team All-Star

New York Islander Legends
Quote:
In 1987, No. 16 provided one of the NHL's most dramatic moments in Stanley Cup history when he scored at nearly 3 a.m. to give the Islanders a 3-2 victory in a quadruple-overtime thriller against Washington in Game 7 of the conference semifinals.

LaFontaine scored 287 goals as an Islander, tied for fifth in club history. In an average season he was pushing 50 goals and 90 points. In 1989-90 he scored a career high 54 goals!

During this time of brilliance, the Islanders struggled and had little playoff success. Lafontaine was heralded as a great individualist talent, but criticized for the lack of his team's success. His line was once called the Helicopter Line because the super talented Lafontaine was in the middle but used no wings!

LaFontaine instantly became the leader of the Sabres. He finished his abbreviated season with an amazing 46 goals and 93 points in just 57 games. In 1993 he exploded with 53 goals and a career-high 148 points.

LaFontaine finished as runner-up to Mario Lemieux in the scoring race and earned a spot on the postseason NHL All-Star Second Team. He was also a finalist for the Hart Trophy as NHL MVP and the Lady Byng Trophy as the most sportsmanlike player. LaFontaine's incredible chemistry with Mogilny also helped shake the Helicopter label.

Lafontaine was looking forward to the 1996-97 season as his first injury free campaign and had hoped to get back on track. But on Oct. 17, 1996, LaFontaine's world came crashing down. He had suffered concussions before, but his fifth changed his life forever. The player known for energy and love of the game was in a fog. He missed the rest of the regular season with post-concussion syndrome.

In September of 1997, Lafontaine boldly announced he would return to the NHL, however Buffalo Sabres team doctors refused to give him clearance to play. The impasse was resolved when the Sabres traded Lafontaine to the New York Rangers, making Lafontaine the first player to play for all 3 New York state based NHL teams.

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02-14-2011, 08:55 PM
  #259
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Mike Modano, C

For a few years, Modano was a great all around player, one of the best in the world. Very good at offence and defence, and he excelled in transition. He was the star on a Cup winner and perennial contender, and matched up against the other teams stars every night, usually coming out ahead.

Michael Farber, SI, 1997
Quote:
Dallas coach XXXXX—who took over the team in January 1996 after general manager Bob Gainey gave up the coaching reins—invited Modano to a local coffee shop last May and gave it to him black, no sugar: XXXX wanted Modano, the team's leading scorer four out of the past five seasons, to center a high-powered checking line. "I'd watched him play enough," XXXXX says, "and it was obvious he was our best offensive player. But he could be a great defensive forward too. Not only could he check, he could also check with speed. I was thinking, Who can I compare Mo with? Finally I came up with [the Pittsburgh Penguins'] Ron Francis, a No. 2 center who is a strong defensive player. I told Mo that I wanted to play him with wings XXXXX and XXXXX and that he was going to be our go-to guy on defense."
Quote:
"I knew going into the game that when [the Detroit Red Wings"] Sergei fedorov or [the St. Louis Blues'] Brett Hull or [the Vancouver Canucks'] Pavel Bure or other players like that were going out on the ice, my line was going out there too," Modano says of this season's change in responsibilities. "It was a little frightening at first because the weight of the game was on my shoulders. If we shut those guys down, we have a great opportunity to win because of our depth."
Austin Murphy, SI, 2000
Quote:
"What he's able to do with the puck at a high speed might be the most amazing part of Mike's game," says Stars captain XXXXX. "I've played with him for nine years, and this is the best he's been."
Quote:
After a shaky start, Dallas finished with the second-best record in the West. Leading the charge was Modano, who retained his offensive potency while embracing XXXXX's defense-first system. "He's one of the best two-way players in the world," says XXXXX. "He's a threat from anywhere on the ice."
Kostya Kennedy, SI, 2001

Quote:
Whom would you rather have for a seven game series?
JOE SAKIC
AVALANCHE C
A shoo-in for league MVP this season, the 31-year-old continued his dazzling play with a team-high seven points as Colorado swept the Canucks in the first round.

OR

MIKE MODANO
STARS C
Dallas's most dynamic player, the 30-year-old had a team-high three goals and displayed a rugged style in the Stars' six-game win over the Oilers in the first round.

The Verdict: "The Stars' defensive system is only possible because they know Modano can create offense when they need it, says Edmonton coach XXXXX. That's why Modano's our man.
Kevin Allen, USA Today, 2003
Quote:
"I think he's one of the best all-around players in the world," Dallas general manager Doug Armstrong says. "And you hear that more and more from people inside the game."

NHL fans understand Modano is a superstar. The confusion centers on what kind of superstar he has become. The New York Rangers' Pavel Bure and soon-to-be unrestricted free agent Teemu Selanne are viewed as dynamic, fast-skating stars, but they aren't revered like Colorado's Peter Forsberg, who arguably is the NHL's best all-around player. For a variety of reasons, the hockey world now is just grasping the notion of Modano's status being closer to Forsberg's than Selanne's.

"I think people focus on the flash of Mike Modano, but he's a real gritty performer," Dallas coach XXXXX says.
Quote:
Modano says it probably took him six years to start understanding his role as a two-way center. Over the last three or four years, he probably has mastered it to the point that he has become one of the league's top defensive forwards — although he also finished 10th in the league in scoring during the regular season with 85 points. "He plays against the top players on every team," teammate XXXXX says. "And he always gives up a bit of his offense to be a strong defensive player."

Modano presents his evolution this way: "Early in your career, you are looking for space instead of making your own. That's where that 'perimeter player' perception comes in, and it was a hard label to shake until I got down here in Dallas." The team moved from Minnesota in 1993.

He says Gainey and, Gainey's successor, XXXXX, changed his thinking.
Stephen Cannella, SI, 2004
Quote:
"When Mo is at his best he does so many little things—face-offs, penalty killing, playing against other teams' top players,"says Dallas coach XXXXX.

Michael Farber, SI, 2006


Quote:
The Best We've Ever Had - No U.S.-born forward can match the career of Dallas center Mike Modano, who is doggedly leading the Stars even after being stripped of his captaincy.
Quote:
"Mo's got the most skill of [any U.S. forward]," says former linemate Brett Hull, a 741-goal scorer who played for Team USA but was born and mostly raised in Canada. "It's to his credit that he's been able to do what he's done, given that 90 percent of his career has been in a s--- system--all defensive-minded coaches. Can you imagine if he had been drafted by Detroit or Pittsburgh? You can't guess at the ridiculous numbers he would've put up."

Modano, of course, only burnished his career by metamorphosing into a two-way center, molded by the mentoring of former Stars coach and general manager Bob Gainey and by the hectoring of Gainey's bench successor, XXXXX. The roundly praised career of retired Red Wings great Steve Yzerman bifurcates neatly into Scoring Steve and Two-Way Steve, but Modano's transformation from pretty-boy scorer to offensive and defensive standout was neither as dramatic nor as widely celebrated. Even after scoring 23 points in 23 games in the 1999 postseason while playing the last four matches with a broken left wrist--"He could barely shoot or stickhandle but played through it," former teammate XXXXX says--and another 23 in 23 in 2000 when Dallas returned to the finals, he still was seen as not having the requisite playoff grit. "He was on an IV in a couple of those games [in 1999]," says XXXXX, another former teammate. "Maybe people around the league thought Mike was soft, but he wasn't. He was the first guy behind our net to get the puck out, and he was so fast he'd [get in position to] take the first pass up ice. He didn't initiate contact so some people said he didn't pay the price, but he was going through the neutral zone at Mach 1."

There must be a rapidly aging portrait in the attic of his downtown Dallas home because Modano looks the same as he did a decade ago. He still swoops over the ice at warp speed and backs off defensemen with his skating as effectively as anyone since Buffalo's Gilbert Perreault in the 1970s. He still has the quick hands that allowed him to set up the king of the one-timer, Hull, the only elite scorer to ride shotgun for Modano.
Quote:
"When I had Mike," says XXXXX, now the Columbus coach, "he didn't even have to have a point to be the best player on the ice most nights."

How did Modano perform playing these tough minutes?


From 1997 to 2003, Modano led all NHL forwards with a +171.

He was also a major part of Dallas's excellent penalty kill and power play.

Adjusted Stats (regular season)

Even Strength
Player Years GP $ESGF/S $ESGA/S R-ON R-OFF $AEV+/-/S
Mike Modano 90-96 501 66 61 1.08 0.94 10
Mike Modano 97-03 524 85 52 1.65 1.04 30
Mike Modano 04-10 434 54 55 0.98 1.08 -6
$ESGF/S: On-ice even strength goals for per season, adjusted for scoring level.
$ESGA/S: On-ice even strength goals for per season, adjusted for scoring level.
R-ON: Even strength goal ratio with the player on the ice.
R-OFF: Even strength goal ratio with the player off the ice.
AEV+/-/S: Adjusted even strength plus-minus per season. Note that this and R-ON/OFF are affected by the role the player is used in, it's harder to do well in this when used in a defensive role.


Power Play
Player Years GP PP% TmPP+ $PPG/S $PPA/S $PPA/S
Mike Modano 90-96 501 64% 0.87 10 19 29
Mike Modano 97-03 524 67% 1.12 10 23 33
Mike Modano 04-10 434 54% 0.97 8 17 25
PP%: Percentage of team's power play goals that the player was on the ice for.
TmPP+: Success of team's power play. 1.00 is average, higher is better. Includes shorthanded goals against.
$PPG/S: Power play goals per season, adjusted for scoring level and team PP opportunities.
$PPA/S: Power play assists per season, adjusted for scoring level and team PP opportunities.
$PPP/S: Power play points per season, adjusted for scoring level and team PP opportunities.


Penalty Kill
Player Years GP PK% TmPK+
Mike Modano 90-96 501 11% 1.06
Mike Modano 97-03 524 45% 0.85
Mike Modano 04-10 434 23% 0.94
PK%: Percentage of team's power play goals against that the player was on the ice for.
TmPK+: Success of team's penalty kill. 1.00 is average, lower is better. Includes shorthanded goals for.


In the stats above, I've broken down Modano's career into three parts.

From 1990 to 1996, Modano was a highly skilled scoring centre, but was a bit of an underachiever, and wasn't among the top forwards in the league. In his defence, he didn't have great linemates during this time.

From 1997 to 2003, he was as good as any forward in the league. Modano's coach gave him the responsibility of playing a more defensive role. He was able to apply his size and skating ability to his new role, and he excelled defensively while still scoring at a high rate. His even strength numbers from this period are incredible, considering that he was usually playing power vs power. He did have better linemates during this time as well. Modano was also a major part of Dallas's excellent penalty kill and power play.

Modano's game really dropped off in 2004, and he never returned to his former level of play. Since then, he's been a good centre who can still play well in a checking role and score points, but doesn't outscore like he used to.

I think that if you read the excerpts from Sports Illustrated that I've posted above, you'll find that the adjusted stats agree with what hockey people thought of Modano in his prime.

Why didn't Modano always play like he did from 1996-97 to 2002-03? My amateur psychoanalysis says that he's a guy who needed the right coaching and leadership environment to push him to excel. And that's why he didn't have the career of a Joe Sakic or a Steve Yzerman, despite having the talent. But for a few years, he was as good a hockey player as anyone, and he had a long and successful career in the league.


Last edited by overpass: 02-14-2011 at 10:56 PM.
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Old
02-14-2011, 08:56 PM
  #260
BenchBrawl
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Lafontaine was awesome, too bad he was injury prone

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Old
02-14-2011, 09:10 PM
  #261
seventieslord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overpass View Post
Mike Modano, C.

For a few years, Modano was a great all around player, one of the best in the world. Very good at offence and defence, and he excelled in transition. He was the star on a Cup winner and perennial contender, and matched up against the other teams stars every night, usually coming out ahead.


Considering when he usually gets taken, I thought it was a cinch for me to get him at 214.

I could name a lot of drafted centers I would take him over.... but I don't want to piss 15 GMs off.

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02-14-2011, 09:14 PM
  #262
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You must love his team so far. No vintage players.
Lol I've got nothing against vintage players, hell my team is 75% vintage so far. But GM's in the past have had bias's against modern players - especially Pappy.

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02-14-2011, 09:18 PM
  #263
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post


Considering when he usually gets taken, I thought it was a cinch for me to get him at 214.

I could name a lot of drafted centers I would take him over.... but I don't want to piss 15 GMs off.
Did you mean undrafted?

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02-14-2011, 09:19 PM
  #264
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post


Considering when he usually gets taken, I thought it was a cinch for me to get him at 214.

I could name a lot of drafted centers I would take him over.... but I don't want to piss 15 GMs off.
I could name just as many undrafted that I would rather have

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02-14-2011, 09:21 PM
  #265
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I could name at least 10 drafted centres I'd take over Modano! :p

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02-14-2011, 09:23 PM
  #266
seventieslord
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Originally Posted by Boy Wonder View Post
Did you mean undrafted?
No. I mean drafted.

I can think of thousands of undrafted centers I would take him over. (All of them)

Can't wait to see what overpass puts together on him. Safe to say, my chances of ever getting this underrated great and first ballot hall of famer at a discount in the future just went to zero.

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02-14-2011, 09:26 PM
  #267
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Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
I could name just as many undrafted that I would rather have
You probably could. You see pcha finishes as significant as modern ones, it seems.

In terms of overall package, this was the best center left.

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02-14-2011, 09:28 PM
  #268
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post


Considering when he usually gets taken, I thought it was a cinch for me to get him at 214.

I could name a lot of drafted centers I would take him over.... but I don't want to piss 15 GMs off.
I know he went a lot lower last time, but when I saw guys like Savard and Sittler going, I thought Modano could go any time. I was half convinced you were going to take him at 187.

I think he's the perfect player to start my second line with.

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02-14-2011, 09:33 PM
  #269
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People sure think differently now. The first 150 picks were pretty much clear. Now there are players far down the last draft's list that seem equal or better than the 200-like picks.

And, it would be nice to hear people arguing the case for their opinions rather than just state them like they are matters of fact when they clearly aren't!

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02-14-2011, 09:35 PM
  #270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post


Considering when he usually gets taken, I thought it was a cinch for me to get him at 214.

I could name a lot of drafted centers I would take him over.... but I don't want to piss 15 GMs off.
come on , piss me off , go ahead.

Denis Savard ahead of Mike Modano

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02-14-2011, 09:38 PM
  #271
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Originally Posted by overpass View Post
Mike Modano, C
Nice pick. I was shocked to see how late he went last year.

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02-14-2011, 09:40 PM
  #272
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
In terms of overall package, this was the best center left.
Modano was not a complete package. He faced criticism in the early nineties for not being a good enough leader. He was criticized for not being clutch enough. He was not physical and shied away from traffic areas, was a perimeter player, picking and choosing openings rather than getting his nose dirty to make a play.

Yeah, he could skate, and he formed an effective 2nd line tandem for years, on both special teams units. Scoring? 8th and 8th in goals and once 4th in assists. Whipdeedo. Two good and only marginally great scoring seasons over his career. But he was a compiler. There are good reasons to draft a half dozen undrafted centers ahead of him, and why that is will be pointed out in due time.

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02-14-2011, 09:51 PM
  #273
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Originally Posted by The Sabre View Post
People sure think differently now. The first 150 picks were pretty much clear. Now there are players far down the last draft's list that seem equal or better than the 200-like picks.

And, it would be nice to hear people arguing the case for their opinions rather than just state them like they are matters of fact when they clearly aren't!
I think 70's was saying the first 115 picks of this draft were the same as last year, save for two players who jumped up - Crosby and Shanahan. It's looking like it's any mans game now - a crapshoot. It's awesome.

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02-14-2011, 10:00 PM
  #274
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Originally Posted by The Sabre View Post
Modano was not a complete package. He faced criticism in the early nineties for not being a good enough leader. He was criticized for not being clutch enough. He was not physical and shied away from traffic areas, was a perimeter player, picking and choosing openings rather than getting his nose dirty to make a play.

Yeah, he could skate, and he formed an effective 2nd line tandem for years, on both special teams units. Scoring? 8th and 8th in goals and once 4th in assists. Whipdeedo. Two good and only marginally great scoring seasons over his career. But he was a compiler. There are good reasons to draft a half dozen undrafted centers ahead of him, and why that is will be pointed out in due time.
You wanted to hear arguments. I think I've posted a good argument for Modano in his bio a few posts up.

An effective 2nd line tandem? Are you serious? Modano was the first line centre in every sense of the word on a Stanley Cup contender and winner in his prime.

Modano was the farthest thing in the world from a compiler. He was a player who outscored the other team's stars and drove his team's success.

I'll repost this quote from SI about Modano being "soft".:
Quote:
Even after scoring 23 points in 23 games in the 1999 postseason while playing the last four matches with a broken left wrist--"He could barely shoot or stickhandle but played through it," former teammate XXXXX says--and another 23 in 23 in 2000 when Dallas returned to the finals, he still was seen as not having the requisite playoff grit. "He was on an IV in a couple of those games [in 1999]," says XXXXX, another former teammate. "Maybe people around the league thought Mike was soft, but he wasn't. He was the first guy behind our net to get the puck out, and he was so fast he'd [get in position to] take the first pass up ice. He didn't initiate contact so some people said he didn't pay the price, but he was going through the neutral zone at Mach 1."

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02-14-2011, 10:12 PM
  #275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overpass View Post
Mike Modano, C
Great pick.

I was going to take him next if he somehow fell that far..

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