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ATD 2011 Draft Thread IV

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Old
02-14-2011, 09:12 PM
  #276
nik jr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overpass View Post
Mike Modano, C
i thought about picking him instead of lemaire, and i think modano was a better player, and, like lemaire, has several important qualities i wanted for hull's C (speed, D, good scoring and passing) but modano was used to being the star of his line and of his team, and i knew lemaire would be willing to be more of a support player. modano does have a big advantage in size over lemaire, though.

at 74 and 87 i thought of picking fyodorov or delvecchio, who i think would fit well with hull, but i expected lemaire or modano would be available later.

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02-14-2011, 09:15 PM
  #277
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Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
I think 70's was saying the first 115 picks of this draft were the same as last year, save for two players who jumped up - Crosby and Shanahan. It's looking like it's any mans game now - a crapshoot. It's awesome.
Don't forget Mats!

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Old
02-14-2011, 09:21 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by overpass View Post
You wanted to hear arguments. I think I've posted a good argument for Modano in his bio a few posts up.

An effective 2nd line tandem? Are you serious? Modano was the first line centre in every sense of the word on a Stanley Cup contender and winner in his prime.

Modano was the farthest thing in the world from a compiler. He was a player who outscored the other team's stars and drove his team's success.

I'll repost this quote from SI about Modano being "soft".:
I was hoping to pick Modano as well but I can tell you for sure early in his career he was considered soft. I distinctly remember reading an article the year he scored 50 (5th season) that said something along the lines of "it looks like he had finally learned you had to pay a price sometimes to score in the NHL".

Also, while during the late 90s and early 2000s he was a great two way player, that was for a relatively short period in his career.

He was much more one dimensional towards offense early in his career and towards defense later.

All that being said, during his prime he was definitely a front line two-way guy for sure. I wish I had got him for my second unit in this..


Last edited by BraveCanadian: 02-14-2011 at 09:28 PM.
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Old
02-14-2011, 09:21 PM
  #279
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Even after scoring 23 points in 23 games in the 1999 postseason while playing the last four matches with a broken left wrist--"He could barely shoot or stickhandle but played through it," former teammate XXXXX says--and another 23 in 23 in 2000 when Dallas returned to the finals, he still was seen as not having the requisite playoff grit. "He was on an IV in a couple of those games [in 1999]," says XXXXX, another former teammate. "Maybe people around the league thought Mike was soft, but he wasn't. He was the first guy behind our net to get the puck out, and he was so fast he'd [get in position to] take the first pass up ice. He didn't initiate contact so some people said he didn't pay the price, but he was going through the neutral zone at Mach 1."
His teammate stood up for him but basically reiterated a knock on 'the total package' idea of seventieslord. Yes, he played through pain and injuries, and no, he didn't go into high traffic areas. But yeah, as I admitted, he sure could skate. He would do a Sergei Berezin rush from behind his own net up the middle countless times. (I think it's okay to mention Berezin because he wasn't ever drafted on this board if the search function is correct.)

He can rush up ice with the puck. He can even cycle in the offensive zone. He is good positionally for pk duty. True, true. But please don't make him into any kind of force. He was rarely top-10. He was one of those top-30 guys who got into all-star games a lot when his franchise wasn't doing so hot. The three most misleading things about him is ice time, all-star games and playing while injured. They suggest more than what they indicate.

He was soft. He was a perimeter player in that he avoided the boards and corners, stuck to the middle of the ice but not too close to the crease. He wasn't a great leader and was knocked for that by franchise fans until a team was built which could win it all, with better go-to guys. Modano was good at skating, could pass and had smarts, but please don't try and say he was a complete package.

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Old
02-14-2011, 09:21 PM
  #280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Velociraptor View Post
Don't forget Mats!
Ahhh yes, how could I forget. Speaking of Sundin, Modano is in his tier IMO - they are both top 180-190 players. Modano cracked the 2nd all star team once and never broke 100 points so lets not get carried away here.

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Old
02-14-2011, 09:25 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by nik jr View Post
i thought about picking him instead of lemaire, and i think modano was a better player, and, like lemaire, has several important qualities i wanted for hull's C (speed, D, good scoring and passing) but modano was used to being the star of his line and of his team, and i knew lemaire would be willing to be more of a support player. modano does have a big advantage in size over lemaire, though.

at 74 and 87 i thought of picking fyodorov or delvecchio, who i think would fit well with hull, but i expected lemaire or modano would be available later.
At his peak Modano was probably better than Lemaire for a short while, but overall I'd take Lemaire's consistency.

I had hopes for one of them but neither one dropped quite as far as I had hoped.

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Old
02-14-2011, 09:28 PM
  #282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nik jr View Post
i thought about picking him instead of lemaire, and i think modano was a better player, and, like lemaire, has several important qualities i wanted for hull's C (speed, D, good scoring and passing) but modano was used to being the star of his line and of his team, and i knew lemaire would be willing to be more of a support player. modano does have a big advantage in size over lemaire, though.

at 74 and 87 i thought of picking fyodorov or delvecchio, who i think would fit well with hull, but i expected lemaire or modano would be available later.
I agree with your take on Modano, which is why I plan to use him on the second line, instead of playing him with Jagr. I think Modano is better to build a line around and Lemaire is more of a support piece.

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Old
02-14-2011, 09:29 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by overpass View Post
I agree with your take on Modano, which is why I plan to use him on the second line, instead of playing him with Jagr.
In a 40 team league he's an elite second line C for sure.


Last edited by monster_bertuzzi: 02-14-2011 at 09:36 PM.
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Old
02-14-2011, 09:43 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by The Sabre View Post
His teammate stood up for him but basically reiterated a knock on 'the total package' idea of seventieslord. Yes, he played through pain and injuries, and no, he didn't go into high traffic areas. But yeah, as I admitted, he sure could skate. He would do a Sergei Berezin rush from behind his own net up the middle countless times. (I think it's okay to mention Berezin because he wasn't ever drafted on this board if the search function is correct.)

He can rush up ice with the puck. He can even cycle in the offensive zone. He is good positionally for pk duty. True, true. But please don't make him into any kind of force. He was rarely top-10. He was one of those top-30 guys who got into all-star games a lot when his franchise wasn't doing so hot. The three most misleading things about him is ice time, all-star games and playing while injured. They suggest more than what they indicate.

He was soft. He was a perimeter player in that he avoided the boards and corners, stuck to the middle of the ice but not too close to the crease. He wasn't a great leader and was knocked for that by franchise fans until a team was built which could win it all, with better go-to guys. Modano was good at skating, could pass and had smarts, but please don't try and say he was a complete package.
OK, I'll agree Modano wasn't a complete package in the way that, say, Peter Forsberg was. He wasn't a plus physical player.

But if you come back to the results, Dallas did very well with Modano as their #1 centre, going against the other team's best line. He had success matching up against Peter Forsberg and Sergei Fedorov in the playoffs.

Modano wasn't in an ideal situation for a "perimeter player", either. This was the height of the clutch and grab era - a time when physical play and the ability to win puck battles was at a premium. And he was on a line with Brett Hull some of this time, who wasn't exactly known for his puck-winning, physical, or defensive play.

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Old
02-14-2011, 09:55 PM
  #285
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At this point I couldn't be more happier to have join a fantastic project like ATD.
I'm really obsessing about it , even talking to friends about strategy and convincing them it's an awesome project even though they are dumb as far as hockey history goes and truly doesn't give a damn about my ATD thrills. ( not like I'm that great at hockey history compare to some here but I'm certainly more knowldgable than the average joe )

At this point even though it's early you can see it's gonna be really tight series , I guess we can call it parity lol.I can see 1 or 2 team a little bit behind or ahead but the majority is pretty much a crapshoot like monster said.

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Old
02-14-2011, 09:56 PM
  #286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Eddie Shore and Jean Beliveau were both very big for their era. Who was bigger relative to their era?
Honestly, I don't mind if Beliveau was one or two inches taller than Shore or the other way around. It's more important to me if they were tough, had good bodycheck skills, if they could clean up the front of the net etc ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BiLLY_ShOE1721 View Post
It would be very impressive. xxx-Beliveau-Kurri could compete depending upon who I put at LW.
If we start naming our own lines, Anatoli Firsov and Elmer Lach is a strong skating first liner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boy Wonder View Post
This was about as predictable as you can get. A steal at this point.
He's a nice pick, but don't consider him a steal at this point. I prefer his placement now than in the early 130's like last draft. He's probably the BDA at this point.

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Old
02-14-2011, 11:29 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by overpass View Post
You may be thinking of this poll, in which Chara won "toughest defenceman to play against"
Looking at it, I think it's a worthy accolade for Chara. I understand that it's not a ''who's the best defenceman'' in the league poll, but the Top-5 players voted were:

Zdeno Chara; 34%
Niklas Lidstrom; 20.3%
Chris Pronger; 20%
xxx; 7%
xxx; 3%

Quote:
Originally Posted by NHL Poll
It's interesting to look at penalty minutes for the top three. The numbers reflect the order, but these guys don't lead the league in that category.

Zdeno Chara of the Bruins leads the poll and he has 49 penalty minutes. That is seventy-fourth in the league.

Chris Pronger has been assigned to the penalty box for 32 minutes and then there is Nicklas Lidstrom who has only 12 penalty minutes.

Obviously when players think of toughness, they don't think of fights.

I think a case could be made that the top-5 defenceman mention are the Top-5 defenceman in the league in the last two years. Again, I'm not saying that this is a poll that indicate that Chara is the best defenceman in the league, but to a certain extent, I think it speaks of Chara's overall on-ice abilities, and not only for the fact that he's a 6'8 - 260lbs. monster (especially seeing Lidstrom #2)

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Old
02-15-2011, 12:49 AM
  #288
seventieslord
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Originally Posted by The Sabre View Post
People sure think differently now. The first 150 picks were pretty much clear. Now there are players far down the last draft's list that seem equal or better than the 200-like picks.

And, it would be nice to hear people arguing the case for their opinions rather than just state them like they are matters of fact when they clearly aren't!
Forget what happened last draft! Use that list as a nice guide for when you can personally expect to get a certain player, but don't start using it as evidence that they were picked too early or that precious "canon" is being turned upside down. In a lot of cases, it should!

As far as your criticisms of Modano go, overpass can take care of himself on that, and has already done a pretty good job.

Finishing 8, 9, 10, 13, 14, 15, and 16 in the points race is not compiling, and it's not easy, either - good luck finding a player with a scoring record like that post-1993 (when Europeans had fully infiltrated the NHL) who can play defense at all.

If you want an unbiased objective source that outlines what the perception was of him throughout his prime - from 1999-2004 in the THN yearbooks, Modano was ranked 8th, 6th, 5th, 7th, 15th, and 7th in the NHL - not among scorers, not among forwards - among all players.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BraveCanadian View Post
All that being said, during his prime he was definitely a front line two-way guy for sure. I wish I had got him for my second unit in this..
Me too. As far as I'm concerned, Modano is the class of 2nd line centers in a 40-team draft... aside from the early-picked 2nd line centers who could have been on someone else's 1st line.

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Old
02-15-2011, 12:54 AM
  #289
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Modano a better 2nd line C than Lindros? Don't think so.

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02-15-2011, 12:58 AM
  #290
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Mike Modano is very good. I think people look at his point totals and underrate him forgetting that his best years were played under Ken Hitchcock whose dream it was to win a game 0 to -1.

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Old
02-15-2011, 01:14 AM
  #291
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Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
Modano a better 2nd line C than Lindros? Don't think so.
Per-game, no doubt Lindros was a better player than Modano. Whether he did enough in his abbreviated career to outweigh Modano's 21 seasons is rather debatable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cognition View Post
Mike Modano is very good. I think people look at his point totals and underrate him forgetting that his best years were played under Ken Hitchcock whose dream it was to win a game 0 to -1.
LOL

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Old
02-15-2011, 01:35 AM
  #292
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That hilarious quip about Hitchcock is not my invention. Someone here said it a long time ago, and I remembered it from there, but I forget who it was that said it.

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Old
02-15-2011, 02:47 AM
  #293
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Originally Posted by Cognition View Post
That hilarious quip about Hitchcock is not my invention. Someone here said it a long time ago, and I remembered it from there, but I forget who it was that said it.
hasbro

colorado fan

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Old
02-15-2011, 04:15 AM
  #294
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191. raleh - Springfield Indians - SKIPPED at 4:55 AM
192. Modo - Dawson City Nuggets - Expires at 12:55 this afternoon

I'll PM both GMs to make sure they know.

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Old
02-15-2011, 06:41 AM
  #295
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
If you want an unbiased objective source that outlines what the perception was of him throughout his prime - from 1999-2004 in the THN yearbooks, Modano was ranked 8th, 6th, 5th, 7th, 15th, and 7th in the NHL - not among scorers, not among forwards - among all players.
At his peak (roughly 97-03) he put it all together for sure but outside of those years he wasn't nearly as effective overall in my opinion.

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Old
02-15-2011, 06:42 AM
  #296
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Hey guys make sure I get a PM when its my turn to pick please. I pick at 194 and I'm probably gonna have to make my selection from work today. thanks guys

Also I requested a few of you guys as friends on facebook?


Last edited by JFA87-66-99: 02-15-2011 at 06:51 AM.
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Old
02-15-2011, 06:53 AM
  #297
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At what point do we call in VanI to handle ThatGuy and SaltyStyle's team? I guess we have to wait at least until their next pick comes up. Longer than that...I dunno.

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Old
02-15-2011, 08:15 AM
  #298
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At his peak (roughly 97-03) he put it all together for sure but outside of those years he wasn't nearly as effective overall in my opinion.
So what you are saying is that he wasnt as effective outside his peak as he was within his peak? Strange. He was very effective outside his peak too. Scoring 93 ponts for a team not making the playoffs and 9 points in 6 canada cup games for example. Thats pretty effective if you ask me. Leading his Dallas to an eventual second round defeat i n 94 isnt too bad that either.

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Old
02-15-2011, 08:35 AM
  #299
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At what point do we call in VanI to handle ThatGuy and SaltyStyle's team? I guess we have to wait at least until their next pick comes up. Longer than that...I dunno.
I pm'd him about a trade for his pick inwhich he has responded to twice. We had a deal made but my guy was picked before we could confirm. He has been on since his pick im not sure why he isn't selecting a player.

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Old
02-15-2011, 09:09 AM
  #300
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I pm'd him about a trade for his pick inwhich he has responded to twice. We had a deal made but my guy was picked before we could confirm. He has been on since his pick im not sure why he isn't selecting a player.
Strange. I'll PM them to remind them that they're on the clock.


Last edited by Sturminator: 02-15-2011 at 09:14 AM.
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