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ATD 2011 Draft Thread IV

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Old
02-13-2011, 09:05 PM
  #101
Nalyd Psycho
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Best puck carrier, no. Best breakout passer, probably.

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Old
02-13-2011, 09:08 PM
  #102
seventieslord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Velociraptor View Post
Same here, while researching him for my upcoming pick, I received many indications that he was predominantly known for his defensive ability. But besides his slap shot, nothing showed of Ragulin being a very good puck mover. He was massive (especially in his era), knew how to play the physical aspect of the game. But I'd need to see some proof in order to determine whether he is what some of you make him out to be.
Chidlovski says: "He was an established organizer of both defensive and offensive team efforts and had excellent tactical and puck handling skills. Due to his amazing sense of hockey, he was famous for a quick and accurate one-timer from the defense zone sending his teammates into a counter-attack. "

Pelletier says: "His weakness was his skating, but that wouldn't have been as exposed in the old NHL days. He made up for that with excellent positional play, and great puck movement out of the zone."

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Old
02-13-2011, 09:20 PM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Chidlovski says: "He was an established organizer of both defensive and offensive team efforts and had excellent tactical and puck handling skills. Due to his amazing sense of hockey, he was famous for a quick and accurate one-timer from the defense zone sending his teammates into a counter-attack. "

Pelletier says: "His weakness was his skating, but that wouldn't have been as exposed in the old NHL days. He made up for that with excellent positional play, and great puck movement out of the zone."
Interesting, now I'm really starting to wonder why I never traded up for him. Minus skating he's like the perfect package in a defenseman. Although to reiterate, he should never go before Kasatonov.

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Old
02-13-2011, 09:31 PM
  #104
seventieslord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Velociraptor View Post
Interesting, now I'm really starting to wonder why I never traded up for him. Minus skating he's like the perfect package in a defenseman. Although to reiterate, he should never go before Kasatonov.
No, probably not. And I should point out that this points more to his ability to "move" the puck as in, getting it off of his stick quickly. But IMO, that's the same result and just as useful as a defenseman who can rush it. The question was whether he was a puck mover, not a puck rusher, I believe.

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Old
02-13-2011, 09:46 PM
  #105
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With the 174th pick in the 2011 ATD the New Haven Nighthawks select Bob Gainey, LW.

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Old
02-13-2011, 09:57 PM
  #106
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I question the wisdom of drafting a third liner as one's third or fourth forward.

And if he's not a third liner, well then I question drafting Gainey so soon for a top-6 role.

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Old
02-13-2011, 10:08 PM
  #107
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It's more about getting the best defensive forward ever. Gainey is a weak 2nd liner if thats where he plans to use him.

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Old
02-13-2011, 10:10 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Leafs Forever View Post
I question the wisdom of drafting a third liner as one's third or fourth forward.

And if he's not a third liner, well then I question drafting Gainey so soon for a top-6 role.
It isn't unusual at all to use a LW as the defensive conscience of an offensive line, as well as the guy who is the mucker and grinder to win pucks for finesse duos.

Gainey can do all of those things and pot 20.

I don't think with 40 teams everyone is going to have the depth they are used to from previous drafts and we'll need to focus more on how players will integrate together and with a team concept.

Then again, this is my first draft so what do I know.

I picked my front line to be a ******* to play against. They can do it all. I'm sure people would look at the picks individually and say there were better players available but I like what those players could do together more than individually.

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Old
02-13-2011, 10:13 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Ragulin usually goes too early in this (he should never be picked ahead of Kasatonov), but he's a very good pick this late.

Definitely another guy I was considering for my last pick.
I owned Ragulin three drafts ago, and I agree very much with this. I would still have 2-3 defenceman ahead of him, but he's a good selection at this point.

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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Not only are the first two in Henri's profile, but there are some more quotes about Flaman, as well. Flaman was mentioned in articles I read about Henri, more than any other player. It seems like little Henri Richard was the constant thorn in the side of big bad Fern Flaman.
It seems that the other way around his also true!

- ''That Flaman, he bothers me more than anybody else in our league. I can't think or anyone else who gives me such a bad time. He always got his stick between my legs or hooks my stick or something.'' - Henri Richard

Seems like both of them love to hate each other

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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Right back at you:
Thank You!

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Originally Posted by BiLLY_ShOE1721 View Post
I'd also question whether Ragulin was the best puck mover of his time.
+1, but I don't want to talk about undrafted players.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nighthawks View Post
With the 174th pick in the 2011 ATD the New Haven Nighthawks select Bob Gainey, LW.
Oh, do I remember the time when Gainey was a perennial Top-100 selection. Good time.

If someone can draft Gainey this early, it's definitely Nighthawks, who own a load of picks in the next few rounds.

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Old
02-13-2011, 10:17 PM
  #110
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Nighthawks only has 2 of the next 160 or so picks.. lol.

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Old
02-13-2011, 10:17 PM
  #111
seventieslord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BraveCanadian View Post
It isn't unusual at all to use a LW as the defensive conscience of an offensive line, as well as the guy who is the mucker and grinder to win pucks for finesse duos.

Gainey can do all of those things and pot 20.
He could barely do all those things and pot 20 in real life, why would he be able to do it at an ATD level?

He should be on the 3rd line, but when all is said and done if you look at 3rd line forwards he'll likely be one of the few best defensively, but one of the 20 worst offensively.

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Old
02-13-2011, 10:18 PM
  #112
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At worst, Gainey was arguably best player available. The remainder of my draft will likely dictate his role on my team.

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Old
02-13-2011, 10:18 PM
  #113
monster_bertuzzi
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...Gainey would be the best defensive 3rd liner in this.

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Old
02-13-2011, 10:23 PM
  #114
EagleBelfour
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
...Gainey would be the best defensive 3rd liner in this.
I agree with that.

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Old
02-13-2011, 10:24 PM
  #115
BraveCanadian
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
He could barely do all those things and pot 20 in real life, why would he be able to do it at an ATD level?

He should be on the 3rd line, but when all is said and done if you look at 3rd line forwards he'll likely be one of the few best defensively, but one of the 20 worst offensively.
Yeah, Bob Gainey could barely do those things... lol

I guess he's a hall of famer and won a Conn Smythe on a dynasty team cup run because he was an average 3rd liner...

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Old
02-13-2011, 10:25 PM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
...Gainey would be the best defensive 3rd liner in this.
That has been, and will continue to be debatable in my opinion. Of course he's certainly up there.

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Old
02-13-2011, 10:25 PM
  #117
Leafs Forever
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
It's more about getting the best defensive forward ever. Gainey is a weak 2nd liner if thats where he plans to use him.
Arguable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BraveCanadian View Post
It isn't unusual at all to use a LW as the defensive conscience of an offensive line, as well as the guy who is the mucker and grinder to win pucks for finesse duos.

Gainey can do all of those things and pot 20.

I don't think with 40 teams everyone is going to have the depth they are used to from previous drafts and we'll need to focus more on how players will integrate together and with a team concept.

Then again, this is my first draft so what do I know.
.
Except a good consience on an offensive line can chip in reasonably well. In an offensive ATD context, Gainey is quite probably gong to be one of the worst forwards offensively in the draft.

Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
...Gainey would be the best defensive 3rd liner in this.
Debatable again. Guys like Nighbor, Clarke, and a few undrafteds give him a run for the best defensive title.

The thing with Gainey is, I thought he deserved to slip because he just isn't a good top-6 player in this and I don't find drafting a third liner as your third forward a good idea. Thogh maybe that's just me.

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Old
02-13-2011, 10:27 PM
  #118
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Didn't Nighthawks missed 2 picks? why did he just pick one?

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Old
02-13-2011, 10:27 PM
  #119
TheDevilMadeMe
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I'm 95% sure that Gainey is the best defensive winger post-expansion.

I would not draft a defensive specialist forward this early, given the gap between Gainey and #2 probably isn't that big. But something is to be said for having the best in a certain category.

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Old
02-13-2011, 10:27 PM
  #120
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Nighbor and Clarke wouldn't be used in a 3rd line capacity, LOL.

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Old
02-13-2011, 10:29 PM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafs Forever View Post
The thing with Gainey is, I thought he deserved to slip because he just isn't a good top-6 player in this and I don't find drafting a third liner as your third forward a good idea. Thogh maybe that's just me.
I completely agree, FWIW.

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Old
02-13-2011, 10:31 PM
  #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
Nighbor and Clarke wouldn't be used in a 3rd line capacity, LOL.
They could be, and it's happened in smaller drafts. Though perhaps you should specific him as "realistic 3rd liner".

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Old
02-13-2011, 10:32 PM
  #123
seventieslord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
...Gainey would be the best defensive 3rd liner in this.
With Nighbor and Clarke not on 3rd lines, yes, he's definitely in the top three. Two others give him a run for his money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BraveCanadian View Post
Yeah, Bob Gainey could barely do those things... lol

I guess he's a hall of famer and won a Conn Smythe on a dynasty team cup run because he was an average 3rd liner...
He topped out at 24 goals in his career. If you think he is going to score 20+ in a simulated ATD season you're dreaming. Because if he's scoring 20, then the Rod Gilberts of this draft are all scoring 40, and Bobby Hull scores 70. And the award for best GAA in the league goes to...... Dominik Hasek, with 4.74.

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Old
02-13-2011, 10:33 PM
  #124
BraveCanadian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafs Forever View Post
Except a good consience on an offensive line can chip in reasonably well. In an offensive ATD context, Gainey is quite probably gong to be one of the worst forwards offensively in the draft.
That depends on if we're talking fantasy land hockey where you can have 3 finesse guys who were 100 point scoring lady byng winners taken at face value on a front line, or if we're talking about realistically built hockey clubs.

Those finesse guys would get murdered by my front line.

So for Gainey it depends on who he plays with and who he plays against. He can do those things for finesse players he is playing with and he can negate the other teams best player if he is matched up power on power.

Winning board battles, creating turnovers and winning loose pucks is "chipping in" offensively.

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Old
02-13-2011, 10:34 PM
  #125
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Gainey's primarily a playoff matchup piece, no? If you expect to run into a team with Gordie Howe in the playoffs, Gainey would be a good guy to have on your team.

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