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Old
09-17-2011, 08:50 AM
  #226
nik jr
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i happened across something about bob davidson and maurice richard.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Calgary Herald: 1-26-1981, Jim Coleman's column
Up until that time, it had been customary for NHL teams to put a shadow on a high-scoring star in occasional key games. But Hap Day was the pioneering genius who decided to assign one man to check Richard for an entire season.

Richard wasn't much of a talker in first few years in the league. He left the talking to the Montreal coach, Dick Irvin, who was a provocative conversationalist. Irvin publicly deplored Day's campaign to thwart his high-scoring right winger. Said Irvin scornfully: "If I let The Rocket go to the bathroom during a game, I'll bet that Davidson follows him."

The Montreal hockey fanatics were even more indignant than Irvin. In that era, there was no protective glass in front of the rail-seats in the Montreal Forum. One night, when Richard and Davidson were jostling for position on a face-off inside the Montreal blue-line, Day looked out onto the ice and discovered he didn't have a left winger.

A couple of inflamed Montreal fans had grabbed Davidson by the shoulders and pulled him right over the fence into the walkway behind the rail-seats.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...+richard&hl=en --- pg 84

davidson had shadowed richard in '44, but may not have been used as a permanent shadow until '45. davidson said that hap day decided to use him as a permanent shadow after richard scored all 5 goals in a 5-1 win vs TML in game 2 of the '44 playoffs.

similar event from that game:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montreal Gazette: 3-24-1944
A fan may have aided the Canadiens to score their first goal: that at least is what the Leafs claim. He tore Bob Davidson's stick out of his hands while the Habs were pouring on the power. Then he threw the stick after Davidson and it looked as though the latter was back in plenty of time to resume his position, though the Leafs claim otherwise. But it was right after this that Richard combined with McMahon and Blake to rifle the puck past Paul Bibeault.
earlier in the article is a description of how dick irvin got maurice richard away from bob davidson:
Quote:
To Bob Davidson, one of the loop's leading back-checkers, was assigned the task of hobbling the rocketing Richard, and he did a good job of it in the first game. Last night, Irvin played 4 defencemen and only 8 forwards and Richard played on all 3 lines. Half the time he was out there, Davidson was sitting on the bench and Richard made a monkey of the younger Leafs who tried to take over the task of shadowing him.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...+richard&hl=en --- pg 16

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09-18-2011, 05:08 AM
  #227
nik jr
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i have seen some goals on HSP which have more than 2 assists. here for example

all of those were in very old games, and i assumed they were just errors on HSP, but i found in a newspaper goals where up to 4a were given.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montreal Gazette: 3-13-1936
Conacher's penalty left a gap for 2 power play goals in the 1st period, and on Earl Seibert's goal, 4 assists were given, to Mush March, Paul Thompson, Doc Romnes and Gottselig, as they passed the puck around before setting up the defenceman. Gottselig's goal was aided by March, Seibert and Thompson.
bold seems to indicate that such passing was not standard, and justified giving 4a.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?ni...rontpage&hl=en --- pg14

ottawa citizen reported the same assists, but did not describe the play.



i did not find any record in papers of assists for that '20 ottawa vs montreal game.


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09-19-2011, 06:10 AM
  #228
nik jr
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a fan in detroit said doug harvey hit him in the face with his stick during game 3 of the '56 finals. harvey admitted to going into the crowd to confront the heckling fan, but denied hitting him.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...g+harvey&hl=en


officials in detroit found insufficient evidence to prosecute harvey, and clarence campbell, president of NHL, later investigated.



an interesting article about clint benedict, from the end of his NHL career:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saskatoon Star-Phoenix: 11-13-1930
CLINT BENEDICT HOLDS GREAT HOCKEY RECORD

The announcement recently from Montreal that Clint Benedict had been sent to the Windsor club of the International League, along with 3 other members of the 1929-30 Montreal Maroons squad ends the major league career, at least, of the veteran of professional hockey. Benny at the end of last season was the oldest player, in point of continuous service, in the National Hockey League, and he has been in more playoffs and world's series than any other major league player.

Benedict played his first major league hockey game with Ottawa Senators in 1913, served with that club until the 1923-24 season, and after getting his release was picked up by Montreal Maroons and was their regular goaler until the end of that season ('30). That gives him 17 straight seasons in major league hockey. Last year Benedict has suffered from nervous indigestion, probably the result of his many years of service, and the extra strain which the new forward pass rules throw on the net-minders. He was relieved at intervals by "Flat" Walsh, crack goaler of the Sault Ste. Marie team, who has been understudying Benedict, as well as acting as a Maroon scout, for the past 2 seasons.

Benedict has played on innumerable Stanley Cup championship teams and was a contemporary of scores of noted stars of another athletic generation whose names would not be recognized by hockey fans of today -- Hamby Shore, now dead; Horace Merrill, rugged defence man who once lost his entire front teeth in a battle with Art Ross, now manager of Boston Bruins; Ross himself played in front of Benedict, and with the latter as the backstop, devised the first "Kitty Bar the Door" system in hockey. George Boucher, Cy Denneny and Harry "Punch" Broadbent, 3 of the greatest hockey developments Ottawa has had in the past decade, broke in while Benedict was starring for the Ottawa club, and two of this three have slipped out of the game. Sprague Cleghorn, Eddie Gerard and the late Jack Darragh were, from time to time, other team-mates of Benedict during this long period of service with the Ottawa club. When "Bullett" Didier Pitre, one of the great French-Canadian stars of all time, was hurling his crashing shots at opposing defences, Benedict was starring against him. He was a great player when Newsy Lalonde, now Ottawa coach, was at his best. He faced such sniping stars as Jack Adams, who broke in with Toronto; Odie Cleghorn, who played for Wanderers and Canadiens of Montreal; Jack Laviolette, Canadien speed-king of his day; Joe Malone, the great Quebec centre who wound up his hockey career with Canadiens; Tommy Smith, one of the greatest sharp-shooters of hockey; and scores of other lesser lights. All have vanished into the mists, but Benedict still carries on.

Benedict has been rated by many shrewd observers the greatest goaler hockey has ever known, over a period of years. He first broke into athletics by playing Canada's national game of lacrosse, at which he was a star, and came into hockey prominence with Ottawa New Edinburghs, an amateur club from which came many brilliant stars for the professional game. Tall, and apparently gawky and awkward, with a shambling style of skating, Benedict possessed an eagle-eye and the quickness of a cat. In the days when goalers were not allowed to drop to the ice to stop shots, Benedict was dubbed "Tumbling Clint," because he insisted on going to his knees to stop shots, and the records of those distant days indicate that he was penalized more than once for thus breaking the playing rules. Later when it became permissible for a goaler to drop to any position he wished to stop a shot, Benedict became almost unbeatable. He and the late George Vezina were the admitted kings of the nets.

WITH MANY CHAMPIONSHIP CLUBS
The long fellow has played with half a dozen championship clubs. His first taste of a title was in 1915, when the Ottawa team won the National Hockey Association, and went to the Pacific Coast to meet the Western winners for the Stanley Cup. Ottawa was beaten 3 straight games.

Ottawa, with Benedict still in goal, won the National League title in 1920, and met the famous Seattle team in a world title series, winning 3 of 5. Ottawa had no artificial ice in those days, and the series had to be finished in Toronto. Seattle had an all-star team, including 3 players of the champion Toronto team of 1915 (should be 1914). "Happy" Holmes, net guardian; Jack Walker, the poke-check wizard; and Frank Foyston, then regarded as one of the greatest centre-ice players in the game. The Ottawa club included Eddie Gerard and Sprague Cleghorn, on the defence; Frank Nighbor at centre; the late Jack Darragh on right wing; and George Boucher on the left side. Broadbent and Cy. Denneny were among the spares. Ottawa won the series, taking three games, Nighbor leading the scoring with 6 goals and an assist. That Ottawa machine is still regarded as one of the most powerful hockey has ever known, for the club ran roughshod over all opposition in the league race the following season, and Benedict was on another world's champion team, for the Ottawa team broke all previous inter-league series tradition and precedent by journeying across the continent and winning the cup series from the home club, Vancouver. The visiting team had never won before since the start of the series in 1914.

Benedict's (last) appearance with an Ottawa champion club was in 1923, when Ottawa Senators again won the Eastern title, with only 54 goals scored on Benedict, in 24 regular games; defeated Canadiens in one of the most torrid playoffs ever known. Senators went west with a badly-battered team, but out-fought Vancouver for the Stanley Cup*, winning 3 of the 4 games played. Ottawa had only 3 regular forwards for the series, Nighbor, Broadbent and Denneny, and took Billy Boucher of the Canadiens west with them, but he was not allowed to play. Benedict had in front of him a crack defence, including George Boucher, now once more his teammate with Maroons; Eddie Gerard, Lionel Hitchman, captain now of the champion Boston Bruin team, and Frank "King" Clancy, still a star for Ottawa. It was Hitchman's first season in hockey.

Gerard, captain and star of the Ottawa team, was forced to retire the following season because of throat trouble, but Benedict's great goaling helped keep the team in the fight to the finish, when they were beaten out by Canadiens, adding another play-off to his list. But Benedict was not through with world's series hockey. Along with Broadbent, he was released by the Ottawa management in the spring of 1924, the supposition being that both these players were through. They were picked up by Cecil Hart, who was then forming the Montreal Maroons, and proved to be the backbone of the club in its first season in hockey. The following year, 1925-26, Maroons fought their way to the Eastern title and then defeated Victoria Cougars for the Stanley Cup and world's title. In that world series, Benedict set a record which will likely never be broken in Stanley Cup play. He turned back the Victoria snipers scoreless in 3 of the 4 matches, and was scored on only 3 times, that being when Victoria won a 3-2 contest, the only Western victory of the series.

ONE OF THE GAME'S GREAT "MONEY PLAYERS"
Known as one of the game's great "money players," Benedict has figured in a half a score of play-off series. In 1926-27, when Maroons played off with Canadiens, for Canadian divisional play-off entry, Canadiens won only by 1-0 in a grueling overtime final game, after a 1 all draw in the first encounter. In 1927-28, Maroons were again in the play-offs, defeating Canadiens, and Benedict added another Stanley Cup series to his long list, the memorable Maroon-Ranger struggles. Thus Benedict figured in play-off or world's series games in 8 out of 9 seasons from 1919-20 to 1927-28, his first season with Maroons being the only one in which he missed one or the other.

RECORD
Benedict was born Sept. 26, 1894, at Ottawa, weighs around 165 pounds, and is 6 feet in height.
1911-12 to 1912-13, New Edinburgh of the Ottawa City League
1913-14 to 1923-24, Ottawa Senators of the NHA/NHL
1924-25 to 1929-30, Montreal Maroons of the NHL
*in '23, Ottawa played Vancouver and then played Edmonton for the Stanley Cup.

Ottawa did not really "run roughshod over all opposition" in '21. they finished 3rd of 4 teams in the 2nd half, with a 6-8 record. they shutout Toronto in both playoff games, though (5-0, 2-0).


Last edited by nik jr: 09-19-2011 at 10:04 AM.
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Old
10-04-2011, 11:21 PM
  #229
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April 13, 1936 Calgary Herald.



The interesting part is MP, presumably minutes played. I haven't seen any other boxscores that included that stat. The Herald's other boxscores from the 1936 final also included shots on goal for each player but not minutes played.

It looks like first-string players played about half the game in general. Charlie Conacher's 39 minutes led all players. The game was an elimination game in the Cup final, so it's possible stars played more minutes than usual.

The Toronto defencemen played a total of 108 minutes and the Detroit defencemen played 107 minutes. This is less than the 120 minutes we would expect, probably because the teams played with 4 or 5 forwards on power plays. Toronto probably also iced 4 or 5 forwards at some point in the third period, after Detroit scored the winning goal halfway through the period.

Notice the shot totals for defencemen. Detroit's defencemen took 4 shots and Toronto's took 3 shots. Obviously not a big part of the attack.

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10-08-2011, 08:20 AM
  #230
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some things about PP's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saskatoon Star Phoenix: 11-2-1938
(Coach) Stewart is certain the Hawks will show cast improvement in one type of play which repeatedly made them look bad in the past--power attacks.

Last season when a member of the opposing team was in the penalty box, the Hawks consistently failed to show a scoring punch. Stewart promises it will be different this season. He plans to use 2 power play combinations. One will be made of Thompson, Romnes, March and Gottselig. The other will be formed by Northcott, Robinson, Blinco and Dahlstrom.

The defensive lineups will be holdovers from last season. Art Wiebe and the speedy Earl Seibert will work together, with the other duo Alex Levinsky and Bill McKenzie.
link

i am not sure if jarek finally established that Earl Seibert was fast, but he was consistently described as fast.

only 4 players were mentioned on each PP, which may mean a d-man stayed back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Montreal Gazette: 3-13-1936
Conacher's penalty left a gap for 2 power play goals in the 1st period, and on Earl Seibert's goal, 4 assists were given, to Mush March, Paul Thompson, Doc Romnes and Gottselig, as they passed the puck around before setting up the defenceman. Gottselig's goal was aided by March, Seibert and Thompson.
i quoted this in an earlier post, b/c it has 4a on 1g, and it sounds like a modern PP.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Montreal Gazette: 11-4-1938
Red Wings Plan To Use Conacher As Spearhead of Power Attack

Detroit Red Wings are out to revive the power play that did a big job in their 2 marches to NHL championships and the Stanley Cup. This time, though, only 2 who were in on the play in its palmy days are still members.

"We lost too many games last year because we could not score when the other team was short-handed," Manager Jack Adams said today. "We've got to revive the power play to start winning again. There's no more effective weapon than a power play."

And the Wings power play this season will feature Ebbie Goodfellow and Herbie Lewis, veterans of the team that won the NHL championship and the Stanley Cup in 1935-36 and 1936-37. They will be supported by 3 recent acquisitions, Carl Liscombe, Alex Motter and Charlie Conacher. Conacher had the hardest shot in the league when he played for Toronto Maple Leafs. Charlie retired from hockey last year after 9 seasons with the Leafs. Now, fully recovered from a kidney ailment, he's attempting a comeback with Detroit. Adams expects Conacher to be the backbone of the Wings' attack.
"Jovial Jawn" sums up the situation like this:
"When you have a set of men who can apply the pressure, the other team doesn't play quite so hard. They want to avoid penalties. They know that losing a man is almost like giving a team a goal."

"That's the way it was from 1935 to 1937 when we had Marty Barry, Larry Aurie, Johnny Sorrell, Lewis and Goodfellow to throw in whenever the opposition was penalized. They scored 32 times on that play in 1935-36, an average of 3 goals every 2 games. Next season, it worked almost as well."

Adams said the play needed men with specialized techniques in shooting, and he believes he has them in Conacher and Goodfellow. Like the Big Bomber, Goodfellow has one of the strongest shots in the NHL.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...wer+play&hl=en

i think PP opportunities from '30s are not available, but 3 PP goals every 2 games seems very very good.




evolution of PP is a very interesting subject, and i don't know how it developed. old reports don't give a good sense of how PP's worked long ago.

phrases "power play" or "power attack" seem to have been used in the modern sense of 5 on 4, 5 on 3 and 4 on 3 play, but also for attacks where 4 or 5 players joined the attack at ES.

for example on page 6:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calgary Daily Herald: 3-29-1933
Flashing from behind after their opponents had scored 2 quick goals in the 2nd period, Detroit's amazing Red Wings ousted the big Maroons team from the Stanley Cup hockey playoffs last night, winning the deciding contest 3-2. A capacity crowd of 14500 saw Detroit take the round 5-2 and go into the Stanley Cup semi-finals against New York Rangers.

Maroons, trailing 0-2 as a result of a Red Wing victory in Montreal last Saturday night, put on their power plays for 60 minutes, ripping up anad down the ice of Olympia Arena to bowl over the frantic Detroit defence.
obviously, maroons were not on PP for 60 minutes.


another example from game 1 of '38 finals:
Quote:
Originally Posted by St Petersburg Times: 4-4-1938
No one, however, could have greatly improved on Moore's performance. Though he came in cold, he turned back all but one of the highly-favored Leafs' thrusts, and turned them back time and again during a series of last-period power plays.
google news says it was April 4, but top of newspaper says April 6.

TML had no PP's during the last period. end of the game when trailing is a time when
4 or 5 players would attack, instead of 2 or 3 staying back to play D.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Montreal Gazette: 2-12-1934
The old Boston Power play was powerless against Maroons Saturday night at the Forum. Master Stew Evans slapped a goal past Tiny Thompson in the 2nd period, and that was good enough for a 1-0 Montreal victory, despite the best efforts of Eddie Shore, who started power play after power play after Evans tally.
....
Time and time again they were thrown back by the power plays, but they invariably broke away for dangerous rushes on Thompson and only the Boston goalie's sensational work combined with some bad luck prevented Maroons from getting a couple of extra tallies.
....
Immediately after this goal, Eddie Shore trotted out the old power play, and it was a continual menace as 4 and 5 man attacks swept in on the Maroon net from the middle of the second period until the end of the game, but the Montreal defences, and Dave Kerr, in particular, withstood these assaults without a lapse. It was Kerr's 5th shutout of the season.
only 2 penalties in the game, both to Boston, so power play refers to ES massed attacks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ottawa Citizen: 11-29-1933
The Boston defence star opened the power play by driving at the enemy net as he swept through center. Four of his mates trailed him, but they were not heeded because Eddie fought his way in back of the Ottawa net, pulled the puck away from Syd Howe, and poked it out. The rubber struck goalie Bill Beveridge's skate, and the game was decided when it was deflected into his cage.
...
The Bruins countered with a 5-man attack that seldom got over the Senators' blue line, although during the last minute, Marty Barry missed a wide-open net on a power play.
...
5 minutes to go and the Bruins resumed their old-time power tactics. Shore started the play by firing into the Ottawa zone as he cut through center. Smith followed him down and there were 5 Bruins milling around in enemy territory when Shore battered his way through Bowman and followed the rubber around the Ottawa net. He passed out and the puck hit the goalie's skate and was deflected into the cage to put the Bruins out in front.
only 2 penalties in that game, and they were matching majors. power plays here again mean massed attacks at ES.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewiston Evening Journal: 12-7-1932
The Boston Bruins, the team which put the power play in hockey, and nearly ruined the NHL with it, are back on the warpath again serving adequate notice that they are one of the many teams to beat in the championship race.

In the 1929-30 season, the Bruins knocked all existing scoring records into a cocked hat when they lost only 5 games and were tied once in a 44 game campaign and piled up the remarkable total of 179 goals. The next season, they were almost as good, but last year, with less weight and power on the squad, they changed their style of play and dropped into the cellar.

This season, against some of the strongest opposition they have ever faced, the Bruins are again rambling towards the top, overpowering all rivals. They are tied with the New York Rangers, a remarkable group of goal-getters, for the American division lead and have scored 27 goals, the 3rd highest total in the league, against 20 for their opponents.

The tough defense of the New York Americans halted the Bruins for 3 full periods last night, but after 62 scoreless minutes, big Nels Stewart crashed through to score with the assistance of Marty Barry and Dit Clapper, and when the A's gambled on a 5 man attack, Joe Lamb slipped away for another goal to make the final score 2-0.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Montreal Gazette: 2-10-1932
A tie seemed impending when Art Ross, manager of the Bruins, gave the signal for the power play which so often had been ridiculed and so often had proved a boomerang.

Down the ice came Shore, carrying the puck and driving it into the corner where Weiland hurried after it and, quick as a flash, passed it out in front of the net where Shore took a shot.
ridicule and boomeranging of PP's is intriguing.



i quoted this in last ATD, about Shore and "pressure hockey," which may be the same as "power play":
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dink Carroll in 2-23-1942 Montreal Gazette
Shore The Inventor Of Pressure Hockey?

Earl Seibert sums up the players' reaction to pressure hockey with the same neat efficiency that he displays on the ice. He says, "The forwards love it--the defencemen hate it."

The defencemen hate it, the big Chicago rearguard star explains, because they have to do the back-checking for the forwards, and the forwards love it because they no longer have that long haul back the length of the ice when their checks break away. Credit, or blame, depending on your point of view, for the new game, he pins squarely on the shoulders of the great Eddie Shore, though he thinks wily Art Ross may have had a hand in it.

"Shore used to leave his position on the defence and come up near the opposing team's blueline," big Earl recalls. "He'd only stay there for a minute or two at a time, putting on a little power play of his own. That was the way it started and I remember that Art Ross got so that he's bang a stick against the fence when he wanted Shore to move up. But I believe Shore moved up there in the first place on his own, and later Ross endorsed the move."

That is probably the truth about the origin of pressure hockey, as great individual stars have a habit of leaving their imprints on a game. Frank Nighbor, a forward with a particular genius for defensive hockey, was the cause of the kitty-bar-the-door style that prevailed for so many years. Shore, a defenceman with a brilliant offensive spark, may just as readily been the cause of the switchover to the new type of game.

Suggests Anti-offence Rule

Seibert doesn't think pressure hockey is here to stay. In his opinion, the fans don't like the new game and that is what will defeat it in the long run. He even has his own idea of what will develop.

"When all the clubs were playing defensive hockey," he pointed out, "the fans squawked all over the circuit. So they introduced the anti-defence rules. They're not always enforced, but they're there. According to the rules, only three men are allowed behind the defending blue line before the puck is carried into that defensive zone. It seems to me the next step will be anti-offence rules. They won't allow more than a certain number of players on the attacking team to go over the defending team's blue line."

Personally, he doesn't find it tougher to play the new game. He is always careful when playing "points" (that is the term defencemen use to describe their position when playing up on a power play) to keep moving. He skates at an angle and figures that helps him to turn with a forward and prevent him getting loose on a breakaway. In the old game, a defence player had to start from a standing position and he found the starting and stopping a bit wearying. Moving around as he does in the new game, his muscles are always loosened up and he doesn't tire so quickly.
anti-offence rule seems consistent with the idea that "power plays" were originally ES plays, and that Boston under Ross popularized them. i cannot remember seeing the phrase "power play" or "power attack" in reports from '20s.

Daily Boston Globe of 3-21-1934 says "the 'power play' is generally credited to him (Art Ross)," but have to pay to read the entire article.


if it is correct that Shore was central to Boston's "power plays (whether ES or PP)," and that Boston's frequent and successful use of them changed hockey (from defensive hockey to "pressure hockey"), it is much easier to understand why Shore won 4 harts and was a finalist 3 more times.

i read in some old paper that Shore, iirc, was "kingpin of the Boston Bruins power play," and when i read that, i was unaware that power play also applied to ES, so i assumed it meant Shore was a PP QB. but that is not clear at all.

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10-09-2011, 09:10 AM
  #231
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i had never heard this before, but '30 also had a new anti-defense rule. players were not allowed to cross the defensive blueline before the puck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calgary Herald: 11-15-1929
Flock of Goals and Much Confusion for Big League Opening

The great experiment of the NHL met with some success and much confusion in its first test as the circuit opened the 1929-30 season. One aim of the new code of rules, to increase scoring, was attained without much trouble. But misunderstandings about the new defence rule brought an unexpected number of penalties.

The four games which opened the season last night saw a total of 20 goals scored and two of the contests resulted in deadlocks. The penalty total was far higher, 88 fouls being committed by the 8 teams. The battles between the New York Rangers and Montreal Maroons and between the Canadiens of Montreal and the Ottawa Senators brought the most penalties, 26 each. Boston and Detroit were penalized 20 times, while Chicago and Toronto got off with 16.
page 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calgary Daily Herald: 11-18-1929
Superiority in using the forward pass in all zones, and ability to keep from incurring penalties as a result of violating the anti-defense rule, marked the Bruins victory. They suffered but 1 penalty for crossing their defense blue line ahead of the puck, whereas the locals were penalized 5 times for this violation and it undoubtedly contributed considerably to their defeat.


'30 bruins were 38-5-1.
3 of those losses were to chicago in chicago.

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01-26-2012, 10:34 AM
  #232
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I think this is worthy of a bump. Use it to put any errant newspaper reports you don't want to put into a bio, whether because it's not your player or a bit too errant, or putting in a ton of newspaper reports that you can link into your bio.

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01-26-2012, 10:38 AM
  #233
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Since this thread contains so much info about undrafteds, should we just start a new thread and have a mod merge them at the end of the draft?

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01-26-2012, 11:02 AM
  #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Since this thread contains so much info about undrafteds, should we just start a new thread and have a mod merge them at the end of the draft?
Perhaps, but then I think the main usage is for posting about likely good quotes about players quite possibly undrafted.

I dunno, the whole "don't hint about undrafteds" is to prevent people from unduly influencing imminent picks. The information gathered here is too dispersed and large, I think, to really inluence picks; if you get sold on a player with info on this thread, you're probably looking into the player anyway.

I think one can just consider this thread another resource to find info on players, like Legends of Hockey or Greatest Hockey Legends.

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01-26-2012, 11:07 AM
  #235
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Okay, I'm fine with whatever. But last year, I think we specifically held off on posting things here until all the mentioned players were drafted, didn't we?

I definitely xxx'd out some stuff when I first posted it.

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01-26-2012, 11:12 AM
  #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Okay, I'm fine with whatever. But last year, I think we specifically held off on posting things here until all the mentioned players were drafted, didn't we?
We did, but I don't know that it mattered. Half of the GMs didn't even read the thread. Any really rich information is quite likely to be saved by the GM that finds it, anyway, in hopes that player x falls into his clutches. I personally think this thread should be a free fire area.

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01-26-2012, 11:14 AM
  #237
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Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
We did, but I don't know that it mattered. Half of the GMs didn't even read the thread. Any really rich information is quite likely to be saved by the GM that finds it, anyway, in hopes that player x falls into his clutches. I personally think this thread should be a free fire area.
Good point, if you post your goodies before guys are drafted, you're hurting yourself more than anyone. I'm fine with this thing being a free-for-all.

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01-26-2012, 12:11 PM
  #238
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Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
Interesting find:

An article discussing the best ever from 1912.

Also, Bowie was apparently an excellent diver.
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Originally Posted by nik jr View Post
i posted this in the history forum last year:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...ie+shore&hl=en
not surprising that diving started very early, but have any other cases of diving been found?

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02-08-2012, 10:54 AM
  #239
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opposite of dirt, but i found this great description of joe malone:
Quote:
Originally Posted by New York Times: 3-16-1913
Joe Malone was lightning fast. He glided over the ice phantomlike in the heavy mist. His ghost-like figure seemed to be in front of every Wanderers skater and never did he fail to steal the rubber from an opponent. His hockey stick was like a thing alive, for it poked its way between skates and under falling players in a way which brought Malone the puck every time. He wiggled his way through the roughest scrimmages and always brought up in front of the Wanderers' net. Then he ripped the puck in. Sometimes, it didn't go in and hit Cadotte so hard in the chest that it almost knocked him down.
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive...DB405B838DF1D3




Quote:
Originally Posted by Dink Carroll in 7-13-1956 Montreal Gazette
Sprague was still with the Bruins when Eddie Shore broke in. "Eddie was the greenest pea you ever saw when he came to the Bruins," Sprague once told us. "I helped develop his puck-carrying style by placing chairs on the ice a certain distance apart. He rushed with the puck, swerving in and out around the chairs. Of course, he had natural ability, but it had to be brought out."

Oddly enough, Shore once told us that he (Shore) lacked natural ability. "I'm not a natural athlete -- I'm a made athlete," he said. "I had motion pictures of myself made playing hockey. I studied them to discover the mistakes I was making and correct them. Nothing ever came easy to me."
this column by dink carroll was written just after sprague cleghorn died.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?ni...rontpage&hl=en
page 24


this post about from the top 60 d-men debate quotes a dink carroll column almost 19 years later that again mentions shore's skating between chairs. in the later column, shore did not credit cleghorn.

i have learned that cleghorn was made defensive coach of boston in '28, so it would not be surprising, but i have seen no confirmation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Montreal Gazette: 11-3-1927
Sprague Cleghorn, Bruins' captain for the last 2 seasons, was named today as coach of the National League hockey team and he is to be cast in a new role this season.

Manager Art Ross of the Bruins in making the announcement, said Cleghorn would assume more responsibility this season than before, that he would do all the defence coaching, but that his appointment did not mean that he would not play if needed. "Peg" can still go out and play a strong defence game, said Ross, and you'll see him on the ice for the Bruins.

Cleghorn, coming to Boston in the fall of 1925 from Canadiens, was greatly responsible for the winning streak the team had towards the close of the season. Ross played one of his master strokes in bringing the veteran defence man to Boston and he used him as a steadying influence on the younger players on the team. In the Bruins' practice scrimmage today, Cleghorn was assigned by manager Ross to coach the defensive players and he spent considerable time with Clapper and Clark.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?ni...rontpage&hl=en
page 16


Last edited by nik jr: 02-09-2012 at 02:58 PM.
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02-11-2012, 06:38 AM
  #240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadArcand View Post
Apparently Benedict was not so good with long shots/rebounds:
probably just an unusual bad game

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ottawa Citizen: 3-8-1923
Canadiens tried long shots, but these were easy for "Benny" who took them with a smile.
page 6: http://news.google.com/newspapers?ni...rontpage&hl=en



edit: i remember reading that benedict was criticized for that game (4-5 loss to toronto in NHL championship).

ice was terrible in game 2, slushy and watery, and led to a 0-0 tie. frank nighbor scored 2g and had an assist in game 1, and the newspaper said his pleuritis was not a problem, but it was in game 2, and he left early after ineffective play.


Last edited by nik jr: 02-11-2012 at 07:20 AM.
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02-23-2012, 12:27 PM
  #241
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My attempt at making sense of the All Star Defense teams from 1931-1943:

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1115501

Please comment and let me know if you think my assumptions are correct.

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02-23-2012, 01:07 PM
  #242
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I'm throwing this stuff in Dick Irvin's Bio too, but this is a good place to dump this as well:

In The Flying Frenchmen by Maurice Richard and Stan Fischler, Dick Irvin's beginnings in coaching and in many ways a bit of his style are described:

Quote:
It is not generally known that Dick patterned himself off after the legendary Knute Rockne, whom he accidentally met when Rockne was coaching football at Notre Dame...

Knute was suffering from a leg infection that fall. He was so crippled by phlebitis that he couldn't walk, and he sat in a car near one of the sidelines directing the practice through a loudspeaker. He had a brusque and commanding voice and was a great believer in discipline. He was also a stickler for perfection and was a man of infinite patience, but he could laugh too.

Veteran critics of the Canadiens later detected the similarity in the styles of Rockne and Irvin...."Rockne had the ability to catch up a general truth in a brief phrase," said Montral Gazette columnist Dick Carroll, "and Irvin could do the same thing."

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03-07-2012, 08:01 PM
  #243
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Great article from 1968 on Gordie Howe:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...g=3789,2374371

I find the parts about how he got more room than anyone on the ice because nobody wanted to mess with him especially interesting.

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03-07-2012, 08:53 PM
  #244
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Great article from 1968 on Gordie Howe:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...g=3789,2374371

I find the parts about how he got more room than anyone on the ice because nobody wanted to mess with him especially interesting.
that was mentioned in his legends of hockey episode. it was also mentioned by the poster classichockey, who thought it diminishes howe, and that howe did not need to rely on intimidation and cheapshots.

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03-12-2012, 03:58 AM
  #245
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report about the breakup of the defensively weak line of jackson - apps - drillon.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Calgary Daily Herald: 2-3-1938
Breaks Up Line
Even before the fans had a chance to howl, Smythe had decided to do something about the Leafs' lack of back-checking, particularly on its high-scoring line of Harvey Jackson, Syl Apps and Gordon Drillon.

He has broken up the combination that has scored 39 of the Leafs' 96 goals this season, the trio that bagged almost half the Leafs' markers last season. Jackson is being dropped back to a line composed of the big left winger, Buzz Boll and Bill Thoms. Bob Davidson will move up to work with Apps and Drillon.

It is emphasized that Jackson is not the only culprit on the highest scoring line and that the only reason he is being dropped back is that a right wing substitute wasn't available for Drillon. It seems Drillon, the league's leading point scorer, is no more a two way man than Jackson.
....
But Apps, Drillon and Jackson were never quite the back-checkers Smythe wanted, and while they scored plenty of goals, the opposition got many, while the Dynamiters were on the ice. The shift will give the No. 1 line back-checking and add scoring punch to the 2nd line.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...son+apps&hl=en

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03-12-2012, 09:07 AM
  #246
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That is not the first time I have heard of Apps being a poor backchecker. He admitted as much himself in the book "Leafs in Autumn".

makes you wonder a bit about his Hart record.

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03-12-2012, 09:50 AM
  #247
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That is not the first time I have heard of Apps being a poor backchecker. He admitted as much himself in the book "Leafs in Autumn".

makes you wonder a bit about his Hart record.
It also makes you wonder about his placement in the ATD above guys like Frank Boucher.

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03-12-2012, 09:56 AM
  #248
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It also makes you wonder about his placement in the ATD above guys like Frank Boucher.
Hart voting is really the only major argument in his favour, isn't it?

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03-12-2012, 10:18 AM
  #249
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Hart voting is really the only major argument in his favour, isn't it?
in late '30s/early '40s, there was debate about whether apps was the best C in history. i don't think i have ever seen similar debate about boucher.

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03-12-2012, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by nik jr View Post
in late '30s/early '40s, there was debate about whether apps was the best C in history. i don't think i have ever seen similar debate about boucher.
Looking back though, doesn't that seem a bit strange?

Smythe absolutely loved him. I wonder if he had a part in generating some hype for him?

one other major point in Apps' favour - he had far inferior linemates for most of his career.

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