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Schenn (LA) available for a top line forward?

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Old
02-14-2011, 12:55 AM
  #151
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Originally Posted by eternallyLeafs View Post
He's just making up for what that Kings poster said about Kessel and Versteeg for Smyth or Stoll and a second.

Brutal.
WOW a Leaf fan would actually admit thats a bad deal for LA maybe Leaf fans arn't that dumb!!!

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02-14-2011, 01:13 AM
  #152
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Hemsky is worth more than Simmonds and Tuebert combined.

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02-14-2011, 01:45 AM
  #153
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As an oiler fan I understand why Kings fans want to keep Schenn. That being said I think the kings are close to bieng a contender, they have young studs at key positions ie Kopitar,Brown,Doughty,Johnson,Quick to name a few. Add to that key vets with playoff pedigree like Smyth,Williams,Stoll ect. this team is gonna get hot and be in the dance I think. If the Kings deal Schenn it might haunt them, then again if they get a Hemsky type to play with Kopitar( a combo that I think would be scary good) that may infact put them at another level. I think that there is a more realistic chance that Lombardi parts with Schenn than Simmonds right now. Something Like Hemsky and Smid for Schenn,Tuebert and Clifford/1st is a very realistic possibilty.

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02-14-2011, 02:09 AM
  #154
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Originally Posted by moneygoalie31 View Post
As an oiler fan I understand why Kings fans want to keep Schenn. That being said I think the kings are close to bieng a contender, they have young studs at key positions ie Kopitar,Brown,Doughty,Johnson,Quick to name a few. Add to that key vets with playoff pedigree like Smyth,Williams,Stoll ect. this team is gonna get hot and be in the dance I think. If the Kings deal Schenn it might haunt them, then again if they get a Hemsky type to play with Kopitar( a combo that I think would be scary good) that may infact put them at another level. I think that there is a more realistic chance that Lombardi parts with Schenn than Simmonds right now. Something Like Hemsky and Smid for Schenn,Tuebert and Clifford/1st is a very realistic possibilty.
we do not need another defenseman. Clifford has earned a very important part in the line up and will not be traded as he is a blood and guts player with skill. Hemsky has great skill but is not an elite player and is not worth the package you want. I have injuy concerns with the guy and he is only signed for 2 more years. I would not waste possibly the best prospect outside the NHL on 2 years of help.


Last edited by funky: 02-14-2011 at 02:21 AM.
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02-14-2011, 02:29 AM
  #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moneygoalie31 View Post
As an oiler fan I understand why Kings fans want to keep Schenn. That being said I think the kings are close to bieng a contender, they have young studs at key positions ie Kopitar,Brown,Doughty,Johnson,Quick to name a few. Add to that key vets with playoff pedigree like Smyth,Williams,Stoll ect. this team is gonna get hot and be in the dance I think. If the Kings deal Schenn it might haunt them, then again if they get a Hemsky type to play with Kopitar( a combo that I think would be scary good) that may infact put them at another level. I think that there is a more realistic chance that Lombardi parts with Schenn than Simmonds right now. Something Like Hemsky and Smid for Schenn,Tuebert and Clifford/1st is a very realistic possibilty.
And what actually makes you think that?????

Smid generates absolutely no interest not even for free and hemsky isn't worth anything like Schenn o r a top prospect.


I'm sorry.

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02-14-2011, 02:38 AM
  #156
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It's going to be a long two weeks for Kings fans putting up with all the rumors. A lot of nonsense is going to come out so these clows can make a buck.

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02-14-2011, 02:40 AM
  #157
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I'm kind of curious, how many Kings fans are comfortable going into the last 20 games with their current roster or a small Sturm-type move? Seems like a lot of posters were looking for a LW, but I am wondering how you would all feel if DL ended up doing nothing?

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02-14-2011, 02:44 AM
  #158
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Originally Posted by SDig14 View Post
I'm kind of curious, how many Kings fans are comfortable going into the last 20 games with their current roster or a small Sturm-type move? Seems like a lot of posters were looking for a LW, but I am wondering how you would all feel if DL ended up doing nothing?
As much as I hate seeing the team do nothing to improve, I'd rather Lombardi do nothing than make the wrong trade that he'll regret for a long time.

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02-14-2011, 03:02 AM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
As much as I hate seeing the team do nothing to improve, I'd rather Lombardi do nothing than make the wrong trade that he'll regret for a long time.
Well, of course selling the farm just to make the playoffs this year is stupid, but if you could add an impact player for the price of a 1st + Forbort while keeping Schenn would you still be content that DL passed on the deal?

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02-14-2011, 03:04 AM
  #160
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Originally Posted by SDig14 View Post
I'm kind of curious, how many Kings fans are comfortable going into the last 20 games with their current roster or a small Sturm-type move? Seems like a lot of posters were looking for a LW, but I am wondering how you would all feel if DL ended up doing nothing?
I may be in the minority, but I dont think we are at the point to gamble on a short term solution.

At the end of the year if Schenn, Forbert, Bernier, Clifford, Toffoli, and Desjarlais are still Kings property, I am happy.

The only thing that would change my mind is if they are traded for Nash or Parise.

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02-14-2011, 03:07 AM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
As much as I hate seeing the team do nothing to improve, I'd rather Lombardi do nothing than make the wrong trade that he'll regret for a long time.
Agreed.

Kings do not need any defensemen, either. Kings have two very capable defensemen sitting in the press box every night in Harrold and Drewiske.

If a deal can be worked out that does not include any players in the Kings top-6 nor does it include Brayden Schenn, then Hemsky or Penner might be headed this way. But trading Schenn for one of those two just isn't worth it. Kings have plenty of high end prospects on defense that they can and should part with before Schenn, including Forbort. But if I was Lombardi, guys like Moller, Schenn, Toffoli, and Weal wouldn't be going anywhere.

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02-14-2011, 03:18 AM
  #162
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Originally Posted by TML g u n n e R s View Post
Schenn is SOOOOOOOO overrated WOW
It goes both ways. If fans didn't consider Schenn a great prospect, there wouldn't be multiple threads a week asking for him from LA.

Some fans might be overrating Schenn but for the most part I don't think that Kings fans are overrating Schenn, it's just that Kings fans see flaws in this year's team and don't think moving Schenn for Hemsky or Penner is something that would put the Kings over the top this season. If the Kings were looking like they were premier Cup contenders this season (not something that should really be said because the Kings have been majorly inconsistent this year), then maybe you bite the bullet and move Schenn if you thought someone like Penner might put you over the top. Most Kings fans are more open to the idea of moving Schenn if it's part of a package for a player that fits in with the age group of the Kings core and is going to be around for more than 1-2 years. I don't see Kings fans proposing wild trades like Schenn for Parise straight up. That would be overrating him.

As it is right now, of the players that are really considered core players, Brown is the oldest at 26. Kopitar is 23, Doughty is 21, Johnson is 24, Quick is 25, and Bernier is 22. Other important young players on their roster would include Simmonds at 22. Clifford looks like he'll be an NHL regular at 20. Kopitar is locked up for 5 more years, Brown 3 more, Johnson 7 more. They have Doughty's RFA rights for years, the same as Simmonds. Quick and Bernier are locked up at a combined $3.05 mil for 2 more years. Among their older defensemen they have Matt Greene signed for 3 more years, Scuderi 2 more, and another season with Mitchell. Another year of Smyth and Stoll up front.

Quite a few of the Kings high 1st rounders aren't in the NHL yet (Schenn, Hickey, Teubert) so the jury is still out on them. Other Kings prospects are having great seasons in the AHL or juniors (Voynov leading the AHL in defensemen scoring, Toffoli is the leading goal scorer in the OHL and 3rd in points, Vey is tied for the WHL scoring lead, Weal is in the top 10.) Obviously it's too soon to say how those players will continue to develop and if they will be NHL players and how they will do at the NHL level, but those stats are all good things as a Kings fan.

The point that many Kings fans are making is that their window to contend for a Cup is likely just opening. Schenn fits right in age wise with that core group. It's not like the core players are all 28-30 and nearing the end of their contracts with the Kings. The Kings can still be patient and wait for Schenn to become an NHL regular, likely next season, and still not miss their window for a Cup. Not to mention, the above prospects having good years means they have other young assets that should have some value around the league, meaning they should have the assets to upgrade the team, without having to move Schenn.

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02-14-2011, 03:51 AM
  #163
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Originally Posted by SDig14 View Post
I'm kind of curious, how many Kings fans are comfortable going into the last 20 games with their current roster or a small Sturm-type move? Seems like a lot of posters were looking for a LW, but I am wondering how you would all feel if DL ended up doing nothing?
First things first- It would be tough to not make the playoffs this season.

With that said, the Kings have been majorly inconsistent this season (12-3 in their 1st 15 games, lost 6 out of 7, 9-3 in their next 12, 2-10 their next 12, now they're 7-0-2 in their last 9. There's a roller coaster team for you.)

As a Kings fan, one theme throughout their history has been going for the quick fix. They've never been patient enough to build through the draft, they've rushed prospects, have traded draft picks the way people give out candy on Halloween, been buyers when they probably should have been sellers or stood pat.

Since Lombardi has taken over, he said he wouldn't make any of those knee-jerk, overreaction type moves that have plagued Kings history. Lombardi has been able to draft quite a few young players that are either currently contributing to the Kings or look like good NHL prospects. Any Kings fan will tell you the depth of young players they have in their system now is something that hasn't been there in the 40+ years that the team has been around. Rarely has he moved any of those young pieces or picks.

The goal is to be a perennial Cup contender, not a flash in the pan (another thing they've never been in their history). It's obvious that for them to be a serious contender the team needs help up front and another NHL vet for the bottom lines wouldn't hurt. If Lombardi can't get a big move done at the right price, I would rather Lombardi make a small move or stand pat, instead of overpaying and doing what every other Kings GM in history has done. The Kings core is still young. Like others said, I think I'd be more disappointed if Lombardi did stray from the course he has set since he took over, made a panic move and overpaid just to say he did something.

I guess the one wild card in this situation is if Lombardi is feeling any pressure about his job security if they miss the playoffs. Way too many GMs make moves that hurt their teams in the long run because they are afraid of being fired. That's not a guy you want on the phones near the trade deadline.

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02-14-2011, 04:09 AM
  #164
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It's criminal how undervalued Brayden Schenn is around these places. This is exactly what it feels like when talking about Hodgson on this board.

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02-14-2011, 04:57 AM
  #165
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Originally Posted by danaluvsthekings View Post
It goes both ways. If fans didn't consider Schenn a great prospect, there wouldn't be multiple threads a week asking for him from LA.

Some fans might be overrating Schenn but for the most part I don't think that Kings fans are overrating Schenn, it's just that Kings fans see flaws in this year's team and don't think moving Schenn for Hemsky or Penner is something that would put the Kings over the top this season. If the Kings were looking like they were premier Cup contenders this season (not something that should really be said because the Kings have been majorly inconsistent this year), then maybe you bite the bullet and move Schenn if you thought someone like Penner might put you over the top. Most Kings fans are more open to the idea of moving Schenn if it's part of a package for a player that fits in with the age group of the Kings core and is going to be around for more than 1-2 years. I don't see Kings fans proposing wild trades like Schenn for Parise straight up. That would be overrating him.

As it is right now, of the players that are really considered core players, Brown is the oldest at 26. Kopitar is 23, Doughty is 21, Johnson is 24, Quick is 25, and Bernier is 22. Other important young players on their roster would include Simmonds at 22. Clifford looks like he'll be an NHL regular at 20. Kopitar is locked up for 5 more years, Brown 3 more, Johnson 7 more. They have Doughty's RFA rights for years, the same as Simmonds. Quick and Bernier are locked up at a combined $3.05 mil for 2 more years. Among their older defensemen they have Matt Greene signed for 3 more years, Scuderi 2 more, and another season with Mitchell. Another year of Smyth and Stoll up front.

Quite a few of the Kings high 1st rounders aren't in the NHL yet (Schenn, Hickey, Teubert) so the jury is still out on them. Other Kings prospects are having great seasons in the AHL or juniors (Voynov leading the AHL in defensemen scoring, Toffoli is the leading goal scorer in the OHL and 3rd in points, Vey is tied for the WHL scoring lead, Weal is in the top 10.) Obviously it's too soon to say how those players will continue to develop and if they will be NHL players and how they will do at the NHL level, but those stats are all good things as a Kings fan.

The point that many Kings fans are making is that their window to contend for a Cup is likely just opening. Schenn fits right in age wise with that core group. It's not like the core players are all 28-30 and nearing the end of their contracts with the Kings. The Kings can still be patient and wait for Schenn to become an NHL regular, likely next season, and still not miss their window for a Cup. Not to mention, the above prospects having good years means they have other young assets that should have some value around the league, meaning they should have the assets to upgrade the team, without having to move Schenn.

Best posts ive seen on any Schenn thread. True, its a question of whether or not the kings are ready to go all in.

Also I would say that Hemsky has for the most part been a healthy player thru his career but in the last 2 seasons his long list of ills has made him a risk. How much that risk is countered by a decent cap contract (near ppg when healthy for just over 4) is debateable; the benefits being more to teams needing to re-sign key players in the duration of said contract.

The other name being talked about is Penner who is a 25-30 g 60 pt player who has missed 4 games in his 5 year NHL career and they were healthy scratches under MacT.

My guess is that unless BOTH Penner and Hemsky were added to the lineup of the kings they would not put the Kings into contention against Vancouver and detroit- should detroit get goaltending which they will because they think like champs and always will pay for what they need.

That being said there would be a cap side to that trade and I believe the Oilers are unwilling to move Penner who can play either wing and has shown a high hockey IQ where he can shift to any line and make that line a solid threat.

With HEmmer there are injury concerns and at 5 on 5 not alot of players in the Oilers team play the style of hockey to complement Hemmer. To me even on the PP Hemsky hasnt looked all that dangerous since trading off Stolls RIght handed release. At this point i think Hemmers value is higher to LA than to Edmonton and perhaps we take that into account for Hemmers sake.

With all that being said I do believe Schenn is being over rated by many (not all) but he is the high profile top prospect for the team in question (like how the leafs believe Kadri is a good prospect --- but schenn of course is not THAT high a risk). Schenn is their only attractive asset that would get teams talking trade... so its basically going to be valued in that sense. If Schenn is gone, they have only bits to offer and not many teams would care.

I figure all of this talk is moot. The Oilers would want Schenn or there is no point to conversing. The Kings wouldnt give Schenn for just Hemsky because just Hemsky is not going to put them over the top and in the process they lose their best bargaining chip while also taking on less cap flexibility.

I will point this out to Oiler fans. Penner was passionate he wants to talk re-sign with the oilers and wants to stay. He was asked about summering in LA and responded... "I want to stay an Oiler, how often do i need to say it?". Its pretty clear and on the record that he is quite happy playing as an Oiler and taking his second home in LA for summers. Oilers should be happy about this, he wont get a tonne of an increase judging by his numbers (his stats back up a 4-4.5M contract) for an extension, he can playeither wing effectively (28 goals on RW 3rd line in rookie Ana season) and can play pk pp and SOME CENTRE, and finally a guy who yells that he wants to stay instead leave. Frankly after him losing the subtle dry personality for a second to really yell at reporters and get his point accross... i dont see how the oilers deal him.

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02-14-2011, 05:01 AM
  #166
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It's criminal how undervalued Brayden Schenn is around these places. This is exactly what it feels like when talking about Hodgson on this board.
LOL Hodgson... and the mini-gretzky Kadri right? I would likely stop cheering for the oilers if they were dumb enough to trade for either of those players.

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02-14-2011, 05:15 AM
  #167
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i just wanna see Brayden Schenn **** **** up in the NHL, dont care what team its for. The guy is legit, that's why everyone loves him, his play just oozes successful NHL'er

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02-14-2011, 05:49 AM
  #168
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LOL Hodgson... and the mini-gretzky Kadri right? I would likely stop cheering for the oilers if they were dumb enough to trade for either of those players.
Spoken just like a true blue Oiler fan. lol

As others have pointed out, the Kings are going in the wrong direction if they're trading a player like Schenn (plus) for anyone but a Parise.

They should be in the playoffs this season, but they've still got some growing to do, and will be better (if managed properly), over the next few years. Schenn has a place on this team.

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02-14-2011, 08:37 AM
  #169
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Well, of course selling the farm just to make the playoffs this year is stupid, but if you could add an impact player for the price of a 1st + Forbort while keeping Schenn would you still be content that DL passed on the deal?
I would rather keep Forbort.

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02-14-2011, 08:44 AM
  #170
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Yeah, L.A. needs a top winger (Probably a Hemsky or a Vanek), not sure if I'd give up Schenn though, They have a surplus of young defensemen, give a couple of them up for that top forward they need.

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02-14-2011, 08:56 AM
  #171
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Originally Posted by TML g u n n e R s View Post
Schenn is SOOOOOOOO overrated WOW
Same with Schenn in toronto must be in the name

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02-14-2011, 09:14 AM
  #172
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Its going to be interesting watching Schenn develop in the NHL, personally im not convinced he's going to top out at more than a decent 2nd line center.
There's something about him that reminds me of Daniel Tkaczuk.

So IMO i'd try to max out what i could get for him. It wouldnt even need to be a deadline deal, so not specifically for these playoffs, whenever the best possible deal i felt can be made id make it then, but i would trade him.

then again i still like 80's music so to it for what its worth.

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02-14-2011, 09:23 AM
  #173
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As much as I'd like to get Schenn and think Hemsky is a good player, I know I wouldn't do that trade if roles were reversed. I understand fans resistance to the notion. LA and EDM are in agreement, don't trade your best moveable asset for anything less than a perfect match for your team.

I don't think it's out of the question that Schenn lands in Edmonton but I think it's really unlikely. Hemsky, Martindale and a 2nd is a mix of help now and solid prospects going forward. Throw into the mix guys like Plante, Chorney, Cogliano, Smid, even Gagner, and it's clear Edmonton could make a tempting offer for just about any player or prospect or pick they chose to target if Tambo and Stu thought it was worth the risk to land that elusive future 1C or 1D. Whether Lombardi listens to that I don't know although I have my doubts. He's a little too risk-adverse for his own good. At any rate I'm definitely not one of the people undervaluing Schenn.

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02-14-2011, 09:25 AM
  #174
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I would rather keep Forbort.
That's the problem though-isn't it? It would seem the preference is to keep all of the prospects. I mean really-is Kyle Clifford that important in the big scheme of things?

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02-14-2011, 10:31 AM
  #175
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That's the problem though-isn't it? It would seem the preference is to keep all of the prospects. I mean really-is Kyle Clifford that important in the big scheme of things?
I would not keep all of King’s prospects, but I would keep these prospects until great offers will come around:


· Jonathan Bernier
· Brayden Schenn
· Derek Forbort
· Andrei Loktionov
· Vyacheslav Voynov
· Tyler Toffoli
· Kyle Clifford
· Nicolas Deslauriers
· Maxim Kitsyn

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