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Will Selanne ever be considered the greatest Fin?

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Old
02-14-2011, 11:14 AM
  #1
RECsGuy*
 
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Will Selanne ever be considered the greatest Fin?

If he isn't already, what does he have left to accomplish to surpass Kurri?

Teemu Selanne

Career Stats (Reg. + PO): 1,340 GP - 659 G - 727 A - 1,386 PTS

Calder Trophy
(1) Stanley Cup
(2) First Team All-Star Selections
(2) Second Team All-Star Selections
(3) Goal Scoring Titles
Olympics All-Time Leading Scorer
(1) Olympics Best Forward

Jari Kurri

Career Stats (Reg. + PO): 1,451 GP - 707 G - 924 A - 1,631 PTS

(5) Stanley Cups
(2) First Team All-Star Selections
(3) Second Team All-Star Selections


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Old
02-14-2011, 11:47 AM
  #2
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No. At least not as the clear number one. There will be a healthy debate between him and Kurri for quite some time.

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02-14-2011, 12:00 PM
  #3
adaptation
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Although Kurri will always have the ''he played with gretzky'' thing, 5 stanley cups is just too much. Unless teemu wins 2 more before the end of his career, it will be kurri.

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02-14-2011, 12:20 PM
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vadim sharifijanov
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people also generally give bonus points to the trailblazers. e.g., salming, stastny. i would think that kurri fits into this category.

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02-14-2011, 12:21 PM
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TheDevilMadeMe
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Kurri was just a much better two-way player and much more accomplished in the playoffs.

For anyone who still ranks Kurri ahead (as do the majority of North American fans, who care much more about NHL accomplishments than international ones), I don't think Selanne has enough time to come close.

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02-14-2011, 01:16 PM
  #6
RorschachWJK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Kurri was just a much better two-way player and much more accomplished in the playoffs.

For anyone who still ranks Kurri ahead (as do the majority of North American fans, who care much more about NHL accomplishments than international ones), I don't think Selanne has enough time to come close.
This. However, Europeans including Finns like myself are, for the most part, already considering Selänne superior. This is largely based on his stellar international play.

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02-14-2011, 01:30 PM
  #7
BM67
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Only 6 NHL players have won 3 or more consecutive goal scoring titles. Only 6 NHL players have won 4 or more goal scoring titles. Selanne is one goal in 96-97 away from joining those groups of 6 NHL players.

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Old
02-14-2011, 06:55 PM
  #8
Starchild74
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I think it is easier to say that Kurri is the greatest Finnish NHL player ever. Teemu Selanne is the greatest Finnish player to ever play for his country.

Not saying or speaking for people from Finland but as well as Kurri did in the NHL or how well Selanne has done in the NHL is not as important as to how well they have played for their National team.

Canadians value the NHL and the Stanley Cup more then internationa play. So their is no way that Selanne could be considered to have the better career then Kurri.

It should be a question really only for Finnish people who have seen some great games and play from Selanne playing on the most important stage. I would imagine that the biggest goal Selanne ever scored in the NHL will not mean as much as a goal against Sweden in international play.

Just like for anyone that has seen Kurri play will remember the important goals he scored in the playoffs and in th eStanley Cup finals.

Talent wise it is pretty close with maybe the edge of pure natural talent going to Selanne but Overall play the edge goes to Kurri

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02-15-2011, 02:50 AM
  #9
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In many ways he already is better. A strong case can certainly be made. But personally, I'll take the strong 2-way player with 5 cups. I don't know if he's better or not, but that's a hard resume to overlook.

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02-15-2011, 03:09 AM
  #10
kmad
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Selanne's international resume should be ignored for comparison's sake. Kurri played at a time of great weakness for Finnish national teams.

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02-15-2011, 03:17 AM
  #11
HF007
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I'd take a healthy Selanne over a healthy Kurri.

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02-15-2011, 05:11 PM
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seventieslord
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There is a decent chance that, given the same circumstances Kurri was given, Selanne could have put together a better career - but he didn't, and based on the final results you can't say he's better.

There are really just two reasons:

- Kurri was an amazing playoff producer. Selanne doesn't come close.
- Kurri was a selke-caliber defensive player. Selanne doesn't come close here either.

Just because he was about the same in goal/point production (or even a bit better) doesn't mean he gets to hang in Kurri's class.

I think Selanne is arguably a top-100 player by now. But Kurri's a top-70 player.

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02-15-2011, 05:40 PM
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This argument is talked about way too much and is irrelevant.

Both were great players, no reason to compare them just because of where they were born.

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02-15-2011, 05:47 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Just because he was about the same in goal/point production (or even a bit better) doesn't mean he gets to hang in Kurri's class.
You could of course argue that Teemu was clearly superior offensively, because Kurri played on a stacked team during the highest scoring era of the league, though.

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02-15-2011, 06:00 PM
  #15
The Saw Is the Law
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In my opinion Selänne>Kurri.

I Don't understand that international thing. Both played many international games and both were always great.

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02-15-2011, 06:58 PM
  #16
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Selanne is a superior offensive player to Jari Kurri. That is unquestionable, to me. Selanne's peak between 1996-2000, during the dead puck era and with nothing but an oft-injured Paul Kariya to help him, was one of the best ever. But aside from pure offensive ability, Jarri Kurri had everything that Selanne doesn't. He was incredibly clutch and outstanding defensively, and that's what separates him from Selanne, who is a long-time playoff under-achiever and certainly is not anything remotely regarding the word defensive.

Don't write off Kurri's point totals as a major result of his circumstances. Sure, he played in that era on that team with that center. But all that is a direct result of his incomparable chemistry with Wayne Gretzky. I have never seen two players with that type of connection. Kurri was the only elite scoring forward on the dynasty Oilers other than Gretzky. He won 5 Stanley Cups and is one of the greatest playoff performers in NHL history. Selanne has had an amazing career, but Kurri is by far the best Finnish player to play in the NHL

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02-17-2011, 07:23 PM
  #17
Hardyvan123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starchild74 View Post
I think it is easier to say that Kurri is the greatest Finnish NHL player ever. Teemu Selanne is the greatest Finnish player to ever play for his country.

Not saying or speaking for people from Finland but as well as Kurri did in the NHL or how well Selanne has done in the NHL is not as important as to how well they have played for their National team.

Canadians value the NHL and the Stanley Cup more then internationa play. So their is no way that Selanne could be considered to have the better career then Kurri.

It should be a question really only for Finnish people who have seen some great games and play from Selanne playing on the most important stage. I would imagine that the biggest goal Selanne ever scored in the NHL will not mean as much as a goal against Sweden in international play.

Just like for anyone that has seen Kurri play will remember the important goals he scored in the playoffs and in th eStanley Cup finals.

Talent wise it is pretty close with maybe the edge of pure natural talent going to Selanne but Overall play the edge goes to Kurri
While Kurri was a huge part of those Stanley cups Wayne and Mark were probably more important and Stanley Cup counting isn't the best measure IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolt Vanderhuge View Post
Selanne's international resume should be ignored for comparison's sake. Kurri played at a time of great weakness for Finnish national teams.
Why ignore it Sellane was better internationally and by quite a bit as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
There is a decent chance that, given the same circumstances Kurri was given, Selanne could have put together a better career - but he didn't, and based on the final results you can't say he's better.

There are really just two reasons:

- Kurri was an amazing playoff producer. Selanne doesn't come close.
- Kurri was a selke-caliber defensive player. Selanne doesn't come close here either.

Just because he was about the same in goal/point production (or even a bit better) doesn't mean he gets to hang in Kurri's class.

I think Selanne is arguably a top-100 player by now. But Kurri's a top-70 player.
Selanne's overall NHL career can be argued to be better than Jari's and by quite a bit IMO. Like it or not Kurri did play with the best play maker of all time and it does help inflate his stats. And his stats just don't stack up to Selanne's even before one adjusts them for the era.

Selanne is a player that is just plain under rated IMO.

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02-17-2011, 07:38 PM
  #18
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Yeah it is strange to see him doing so well at this age, and having people say things like Selanne can't hang in his class? Selanne was arguably the 2nd or 3rd most important player on the Ducks when they won the cup in 2007. He was far better internationally, sure Kurri's teams weren't as good as Blades of Glory mentions, but neither were Selanne's playoff teams compared to Kurri's hence why Kurri probably has the edge there. If Selanne didn't have this resurgence in his career post lockout I could see someone saying it's decisively Kurri, but as far as I can see I really don't understand how the majority would still rank Kurri better, or to even think there's a clear edge there.

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02-17-2011, 08:06 PM
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Selanne has great regular season stats for a player who many considered to be finished come the lockout.

Both players were amazing in their own rights who had/having stellar careers. Although I never had the chance to watch Kurri play, Selanne has been a treat to watch. I feel I may be biased in this one towards Selanne because of my previous mention. However, you can't go wrong with either player.

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02-17-2011, 08:26 PM
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Jets4Life
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Selanne, hands down.

Selanne is still dominant at 40 years old. He played at a time when Goals Per Game were at an all time low. He did not have a roster stacked with superstars to pad his stats.

After 1993, Kurri was washed up. He never even came remotely close to his Gretzky/Oilers era numbers. Selanne would have possibly passed the 900 goal mark if he had played on the Oilers during their dynasty.

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02-17-2011, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite Vision View Post
Yeah it is strange to see him doing so well at this age, and having people say things like Selanne can't hang in his class? Selanne was arguably the 2nd or 3rd most important player on the Ducks when they won the cup in 2007. He was far better internationally, sure Kurri's teams weren't as good as Blades of Glory mentions, but neither were Selanne's playoff teams compared to Kurri's hence why Kurri probably has the edge there. If Selanne didn't have this resurgence in his career post lockout I could see someone saying it's decisively Kurri, but as far as I can see I really don't understand how the majority would still rank Kurri better, or to even think there's a clear edge there.
that's fine with me. I've got Selanne in the All-time draft right now. Picked him up at 127th even though I say he's "arguably top-100" which some people scoff at. Clearly some people also scoff at him not being up in the 70s with or above Kurri. I don't mind that!

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02-17-2011, 10:55 PM
  #22
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Despite of Kurris playpff goal scoring record and excellent stats, I think Selanne is clearly superior offensive talent.

The thing is that Kurri was more complete player as he was defensively very responsible and could play as a center if needed.

But Kurri did not age well at all, while Selanne is easily one the best players ever of his age. I wonder how Kurri(once with one of the best shots in the game) could not take a proper wrister when he turned 36. His goal scoring ability simply vanished and it was not because of the gretzky factor.


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Old
02-18-2011, 03:51 AM
  #23
Merya
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In Finland most people already think Selänne is the number one, not Kurri.
National team achievements weight alot. And Kurri's prime was rather short. (he played with wayne, ditched his wife of all the nhl years immidiatealy after quitting, and the laughable disgrace heäs done as GM of the national team...and loads more. Kurri is a *********. )

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02-18-2011, 03:58 AM
  #24
Merya
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
that's fine with me. I've got Selanne in the All-time draft right now. Picked him up at 127th even though I say he's "arguably top-100" which some people scoff at. Clearly some people also scoff at him not being up in the 70s with or above Kurri. I don't mind that!
To be blunt. In the all time list, Selänne should be one of the highest Euros. Just a few notches after Jagr, altho national team performance, and being so close to Jagr's points...
And please don't yaddayadda about SJS seasons when he was one of the best scorers in the team, and neither about playoffs where he was likewise among the best scorers in the team. (those arguments are getting reaaaallly old. Selänne was always shadowed, and that gave his linemates more chances. Hell He's still the number one blocked player in PP)

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02-18-2011, 07:35 AM
  #25
jepjepjoo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolt Vanderhuge View Post
Selanne's international resume should be ignored for comparison's sake. Kurri played at a time of great weakness for Finnish national teams.
Shouldn't we ignore playoffs too based on that logic?

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