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Habs' Subban continues to play his way despite critics

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Old
02-15-2011, 06:52 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Ayatollah Chowmeini View Post
by no means did i mean to minimize the racism against french canadians. i just didn't want to trigger an argument over the definition of race as i am neither a black man nor a francophone. i am jewish though, does that count?
No offense taken. I am just a lil touchy about some people ignorant of the behavior of this era, acting like it never existed.

And to be honest, the moment you are part of a part of demographic that is deliberately denied equality based purely on any difference (be it language, race, religion) I lump them all into the same bag. You call it rascism, religionism, languagism, I don't care.

Jews got it bad because of how they worshiped and how they lived their lives. French-Canadian got it bad because of how they spoke. Blacks got it bad because of their skin color. Does anyone of these happens to be more acceptable than the other? The origin of the discrimination just isn't relevant when you determine how bad the discrimination was. Better to see how bad the discrimination actually was. But that is a topic for another day, another forum.

(in synopsis: It's irrelevant why you are being discriminated, as all sources are as bad as each other. Racism isn't inherently worse than religionism, what's relevant is how these resentment affected the lives of the victims).

As for Subban, I believe he is more the subjet of resentment because he represents a new generation, a new way of thinking and behaving in the NHL. Just like any younglings get flak from their elders for "changing the way it's been done", while these old crooners forgot that they were just as revolutionnary in their own time.

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02-16-2011, 07:24 PM
  #102
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Jean: Subban won't back down

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2011/02/16/jean_subban/

nice to see some support...i cant understand some of the crap some people say against him on other teams but i guess it should be taken as a compliment...it means he's doing his job well

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02-16-2011, 07:30 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by SolkaTruesilver View Post
man, is it normal to like what he says that much, or he's got a scripter?

If that's what he really feels, I am so happy to have him aboard. How long do you think he's going to be with us?
I very rarely bat an eyelash when players say stuff like that. Whether it's souray, komisarek, cammy, whoever. But Subban is either the greatest kid ever or the greatest actor ever.

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02-16-2011, 07:35 PM
  #104
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as much as his brashness does invite some of the flack he receives, at this point I think it's pretty clear that his skin colour is at least part of the cause... even if no one is willing to talk about it.


case in point... the habs play the bruins
- pyatt gets bloodied after Campbell uses (on purpose or not) his equipement as a hammer
- spacek takes several blows to the face/head, despite having not dropped his gloves or initiated the fight, before he even starts trying to defend himself

- hamrlik tries in vain to not get pulled into a fight, again taking several blows before he's anywhere near in "fight mode"

- maxpac gets jumped by mcquaid, and never even does drop his gloves.

for all the media coverage of that game, there was no real commentary on the bruins players committing questionable acts.

1 game later, Subban and Lupul drop the gloves, both players are reaching for their helmets while cirlcing towards each other, before they collide, Subban starts throwing even though Lupul isn't quite ready yet...

it's one thing for Lupul to make comments about that, but to listen to the TSN and SPorstnet commentators on the replays, Subban was once again engaging in questionable behavior???

it becomes a story for no other reason than the fact that it was Subban... and i don't think it would be anywhere near the story it is if he looked like the average talented young player.

and i think it's equally true of the commentators as it is of the players who are so eager to label him a certain way...

Watching the games, there is no way one could objectively argue that Subban is any more vocal, cheap, or otherwise 'out of line' than other players around the league... the only real difference is that he's black (and "dark black" at that).

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02-16-2011, 07:51 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by HabsoluteFate View Post
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2011/02/16/jean_subban/

nice to see some support...i cant understand some of the crap some people say against him on other teams but i guess it should be taken as a compliment...it means he's doing his job well
One thing that I don't like about that article is that he's trying to make it sound as if Habs fans are the ones criticizing Subban. No one here at all ever criticizes him, it's only the media and everyone ELSE. We love PK; and I think that was fairly evident last night when the crown was chanting "PK! PK! PK!".

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02-16-2011, 08:05 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by HabsoluteFate View Post
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2011/02/16/jean_subban/

nice to see some support...i cant understand some of the crap some people say against him on other teams but i guess it should be taken as a compliment...it means he's doing his job well
"I can't even begin to understand how anyone could even fathom trading him."

That's making up a hypothetical (and far-fetched) premise to further his argument. I can't think of anyone who's seriously wanted to trade Subban. Not the media and certainly not the fans either.

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02-16-2011, 08:29 PM
  #107
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I really don't like the article from Jean. He just states broad generalities and preach to the converted. Little controversy in telling to Hab fans that they should support PK.

#blamesubban

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Old
02-16-2011, 08:33 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by SolkaTruesilver View Post
I really don't like the article from Jean. He just states broad generalities and preach to the converted. Little controversy in telling to Hab fans that they should support PK.

#blamesubban
That and he's no fantastic writer to begin with. Geez, is getting a job at sportsnet that easy?

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02-16-2011, 08:40 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
That and he's no fantastic writer to begin with. Geez, is getting a job at sportsnet that easy?
And here I thought it was just the litteracy critic in me who was being picky, and I shut him down.

The guy don't know how to build an argument, doesn't he?
Or to close, for that matter.

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02-16-2011, 08:43 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by SolkaTruesilver View Post
And here I thought it was just the litteracy critic in me who was being picky, and I shut him down.

The guy don't know how to build an argument, doesn't he?
Or to close, for that matter.
It just looks like the most hastily put together article I've ever seen. Is he actually a journalist? Sometimes guys at different positions write columns every now and then for fun. Not trying to sound mean, but wow, just wow.

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02-17-2011, 09:21 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
the only real difference is that he's black (and "dark black" at that).
Seriously?? Mike Grier is black, so is Anson Carter, Wayne Simmonds...I've never heard anyone say a bad word about these players.
If everyone in the NHL, and TSN and basically anyone who is critical of Subban is racist then why is it only coming out now?
You're all saying the NHL turned into the KKK overnight?? gimme a break.

Sean Avery is probably the most hated man in hockey. It's because he's black right?

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02-17-2011, 10:19 AM
  #112
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Seriously?? Mike Grier is black, so is Anson Carter, Wayne Simmonds...I've never heard anyone say a bad word about these players.
If everyone in the NHL, and TSN and basically anyone who is critical of Subban is racist then why is it only coming out now?
You're all saying the NHL turned into the KKK overnight?? gimme a break.

Sean Avery is probably the most hated man in hockey. It's because he's black right?
Nobody is saying that the NHL is the KKK.

Also, the guys you listed aren't really relevant. PK is a skilled, black hockey player that likes to talk. Some people want to show him up because he's a hot shot and some want to show him up because he is black. I believe this without a doubt.

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02-17-2011, 10:51 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by SU66AN View Post
Nobody is saying that the NHL is the KKK.

Also, the guys you listed aren't really relevant. PK is a skilled, black hockey player that likes to talk. Some people want to show him up because he's a hot shot and some want to show him up because he is black. I believe this without a doubt.
I don't mean to belittle your opinion (I disagree but I mean you could be right) but I have yet to see an answer to this question.

Why is everyone on PK's case because he's black but not on the case of the other black players in the league? Doesn't make sense to me.

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02-17-2011, 10:55 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by SU66AN View Post
Nobody is saying that the NHL is the KKK.

Also, the guys you listed aren't really relevant. PK is a skilled, black hockey player that likes to talk. Some people want to show him up because he's a hot shot and some want to show him up because he is black. I believe this without a doubt.
Believe it all you want, doesn't make it so.

He's a great player, I love the kid, but he's a got a big friggin mouth. It annoys certain players, hence why some may not like him.
Max Lapierre took much more slack, because he ran his mouth and never backed it up. I already mentioned Sean Avery, how about Dan Carcillo?? These players aren't liked for a reason, not because of their skin color. So why doesn't the same apply for PK?because he's black?
isn't that a little...racist?

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02-17-2011, 11:01 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Jigger77 View Post
I don't mean to belittle your opinion (I disagree but I mean you could be right) but I have yet to see an answer to this question.

Why is everyone on PK's case because he's black but not on the case of the other black players in the league? Doesn't make sense to me.
You would have to be a complete fool to not realize there's a double standard when it comes to PK Subban...doesn't mean it's racism, but there is a double standard. There's been double standards in sports forever, why would it be any different in hockey?

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02-17-2011, 11:03 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Guy Germaine View Post
Believe it all you want, doesn't make it so.

He's a great player, I love the kid, but he's a got a big friggin mouth. It annoys certain players, hence why some may not like him.
Max Lapierre took much more slack, because he ran his mouth and never backed it up. I already mentioned Sean Avery, how about Dan Carcillo?? These players aren't liked for a reason, not because of their skin color. So why doesn't the same apply for PK?because he's black?
isn't that a little...racist?
How can he have a 'big friggin mouth' when players talk on the ice ALL THE TIME. I've been wathching hockey for almost 30 years, and players chirping on the ice has ALWAYS been a part of the game.

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02-17-2011, 11:04 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
You would have to be a complete fool to not realize there's a double standard when it comes to PK Subban...doesn't mean it's racism, but there is a double standard. There's been double standards in sports forever, why would it be any different in hockey?
I'm not saying that he is not receiving unjust criticism. What I am saying is that the fact that he seems to be the only black player in the league who does might indicate that it has nothing to do with the colour of his skin in 2011. I never heard of Laraque having any problems of the sort when he played here for example.

In fact, as the poster just after me alluded to, suggesting it is because of his skin colour might be what is actually racist.

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02-17-2011, 11:10 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Jigger77 View Post
I'm not saying that he is not receiving unjust criticism. What I am saying is that the fact that he seems to be the only black player in the league who does might indicate that it has nothing to do with the colour of his skin in 2011. I never heard of Laraque having any problems of the sort when he played here for example.

In fact, as the poster just after me alluded to, suggesting it is because of his skin colour might be what is actually racist.
Some have no problem with blacks who "know their place". But the cocky, yappy ones deff rub people the wrong way. It is what it is.

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02-17-2011, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Jigger77 View Post
I'm not saying that he is not receiving unjust criticism. What I am saying is that the fact that he seems to be the only black player in the league who does might indicate that it has nothing to do with the colour of his skin in 2011. I never heard of Laraque having any problems of the sort when he played here for example.
In fact, as the poster just after me alluded to, suggesting it is because of his skin colour might be what is actually racist.
I've spoken with Laraque personally, trust me, he's heard alot of stuff on/off the ice. But that's not my point...

As far as him being the only black player who has received this much criticism, well, again, it's not primarily an issue of race...it also has to do with the fact that he's young (younger generation), he's seemingly flamboyant, he plays for the Habs (which increases his exposure tenfold) and the camera for whatever reason, seems to follow him...him being black in ADDITION to all of that, makes it 'worse'.

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02-17-2011, 11:14 AM
  #120
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Some have no problem with blacks who "know their place". But the cocky, yappy ones deff rub people the wrong way. It is what it is.
ESPECIALLY hockey fans/players....if Subban was a basketball player, baseball player or football player. He'd just be another boisterous player. But in hockey, he's a rarity.

His exuberance/enthusiasm and quotability, is often misinterpreted as cockyness/self-promoting and that kinda of stuff doesn't fly in hockey.

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02-17-2011, 11:17 AM
  #121
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as much as his brashness does invite some of the flack he receives, at this point I think it's pretty clear that his skin colour is at least part of the cause... even if no one is willing to talk about it.


case in point... the habs play the bruins
- pyatt gets bloodied after Campbell uses (on purpose or not) his equipement as a hammer
- spacek takes several blows to the face/head, despite having not dropped his gloves or initiated the fight, before he even starts trying to defend himself

- hamrlik tries in vain to not get pulled into a fight, again taking several blows before he's anywhere near in "fight mode"

- maxpac gets jumped by mcquaid, and never even does drop his gloves.

for all the media coverage of that game, there was no real commentary on the bruins players committing questionable acts.
The best example of the double-standard Subban faces comes from this game.

In that same game, Marchand kicked off the first brawl (the one with the Thomas/Price hug-off) by charging Wiz on an icing call. Marchand didn't fight on that play, he let Chara and Thornton back him up. Fair enough. The guy's an agitator, that's what he does.

However, after the game Marchand claims that the charge that he got called for was because "he couldn't hear the whistle". Everybody buys this right away without a problem. Marchand then comes out to the media criticizing the Habs, saying that it was nice to take some liberties on them because they dive and back away from fights all the time. I have yet to see any suspicion placed on Marchand's defense of his cheap shot, or any criticism of his lack of respect.

Leveling this kind of off-ice criticism at another team is something that even veterans shouldn't do. He's a rookie who likes to stir the pot, but has yet to have an NHL fight (as he smartly lets the tougher players on the Bruins do the heavy lifting for him). However, I have not heard anybody claiming that Marchand doesn't back up his actions or throwing veiled threats his way through the media.

I can't even imagine what the fallout would be if Subban did something dirty on the ice (like charge a player on an icing call), then let his teammates defend him, then criticize the other team's toughness and label them as divers after the game to the media.

People can make up their own minds about whether or not it's racism, but it's undeniable that Subban is held to completely different standards from other rookies in the league this year.

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02-17-2011, 11:21 AM
  #122
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Some have no problem with blacks who "know their place". But the cocky, yappy ones deff rub people the wrong way. It is what it is.
Lapierre bothered other fans and media types just as much for a while. Same thing, threads on the main board that got closed etc. Only difference is it didn't last because he was clearly not in the same category in terms of talent. And now, amazingly we hear nothing about him because he's not a Hab anymore. Most of it is Habs hatred, not anything related to his skin colous imo. (there are always a few bigot idiots everywhere though).

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I've spoken with Laraque personally, trust me, he's heard alot of stuff on/off the ice. But that's not my point...

As far as him being the only black player who has received this much criticism, well, again, it's not primarily an issue of race...it also has to do with the fact that he's young (younger generation), he's seemingly flamboyant, he plays for the Habs (which increases his exposure tenfold) and the camera for whatever reason, seems to follow him...him being black in ADDITION to all of that, makes it 'worse'.
I think those reasons without the colour is reason enough. You nailed exactly why I think he's facing this storm. Habs player, good, cockey, flamboyant etc...

Had Lapierre been a budding superstar he would have recieved the exact same treatment.

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02-17-2011, 11:22 AM
  #123
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Originally Posted by LyleOdelein View Post
The best example of the double-standard Subban faces comes from this game.

In that same game, Marchand kicked off the first brawl (the one with the Thomas/Price hug-off) by charging Wiz on an icing call. Marchand didn't fight on that play, he let Chara and Thornton back him up. Fair enough. The guy's an agitator, that's what he does.

However, after the game Marchand claims that the charge that he got called for was because "he couldn't hear the whistle". Everybody buys this right away without a problem. Marchand then comes out to the media criticizing the Habs, saying that it was nice to take some liberties on them because they dive and back away from fights all the time. I have yet to see any suspicion placed on Marchand's defense of his cheap shot, or any criticism of his lack of respect.

Leveling this kind of off-ice criticism at another team is something that even veterans shouldn't do. He's a rookie who likes to stir the pot, but has yet to have an NHL fight (as he smartly lets the tougher players on the Bruins do the heavy lifting for him). However, I have not heard anybody claiming that Marchand doesn't back up his actions or throwing veiled threats his way through the media.

I can't even imagine what the fallout would be if Subban did something dirty on the ice (like charge a player on an icing call), then let his teammates defend him, then criticize the other team's toughness and label them as divers after the game to the media.

People can make up their own minds about whether or not it's racism, but it's undeniable that Subban is held to completely different standards from other rookies in the league this year.
Not just rookies in the league, just players in general...whether or not that's racism, I don't know and don't care of find out to tell you the truth, but this same double standard is also prevelent in every day life for minorities as well. So to completely ignore it, would be ignorant IMO.

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02-17-2011, 11:25 AM
  #124
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I think those reasons without the colour is reason enough. You nailed exactly why I think he's facing this storm. Habs player, good, cockey, flamboyant etc...

Had Lapierre been a budding superstar he would have recieved the exact same treatment.
Maybe...maybe not. All I know is it took years for Lapierre to build up the reputation he currently has, it's taken Subban all of 50 or so games.

Either way, we both can agree there's a double standard. Whether it's related to race, is probably not appropriate to get into here on this message board.

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02-17-2011, 11:26 AM
  #125
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How can he have a 'big friggin mouth' when players talk on the ice ALL THE TIME. I've been wathching hockey for almost 30 years, and players chirping on the ice has ALWAYS been a part of the game.
You don't have to look far, Gill has a big mouth as well. They might be more subtle but Cammy and Gomez don't shy away from talking.

I believe the best way to notice a double standard is with Komisarek. Yes, Komi has been pure crap in Toronto, but in Mtl he was good to great. He used to talk a lot. Not only that, but he was also rather aggressive, always crosschecking after the whistle, pushing and shoving. Nobody ever criticized Komi, matter of fact, he was considered a monster Dman by many.
PK talks, as do most players, and gets crapped on. Anything he does gets blown out of proportion.

I don't think it comes from the fans, because let's face, when any team plays vs Crosby, the fans completely hate it. But nobody makes a big thing out of it.

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