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Ottawa - Vancouver

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Old
02-15-2011, 11:33 PM
  #1
Ho Borvat
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Ottawa - Vancouver

Ottawa Gets
Cory Schneider
Jordan Schroeder
2nd Rd Pick
5th Rd Pick

Vancouver Gets
Jared Cowen
Zach Smith
Matt Carkner
Brian Elliot

Vancouver gets a blue chip d-prospect which they truly lack. Cowen is a big bodied d-man who is propably 1-2 years from being an NHL d-man (IMO). They also get a good solid 4th line center, who will drive the net and plays a good physical game in Smith. With potentially losing Alberts for the remainder of the year, Carkner is a good replacement for this season, and gives them another defender who is about the same skill level as Alberts for next year. They gain a decent backup for this year and if they opt to re-sign him later seasons.

Ottawa gets their future goalie for their franchise. Has a higher ceiling than Lehner, and is ready now. Ottawa can sign a veteran goalie for next year to help keep pressure off him, however Cory is ready to start now. They also get Schroeder who should turn into a very good #2 center behind Spezza, and should be a good player in the not too distant future. Picks included to help get Carkner/Elliot and give Ottawa more draft picks. Ottawa needds draft picks, Van needs depth players.

Essentially
Cowen for Schneider + Schroeder

2nd + 5th for Carkner, Smith, Elliot.

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Old
02-15-2011, 11:37 PM
  #2
Kid Canesten
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as a sens fan, id love that deal but i just dont see the nucks feeling the same way

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Old
02-15-2011, 11:39 PM
  #3
a pony
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Vancouver might do this but I don't see them moving Schneider until the offseason.

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Old
02-15-2011, 11:41 PM
  #4
Peter Griffin
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Make it simple, Schneider and Cowen, something based around them and an off-season move.

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Old
02-15-2011, 11:42 PM
  #5
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Cowen is not going anywhere.

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Old
02-15-2011, 11:43 PM
  #6
ManoWarrior
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Canucks fan and I'd do that deal. I've got high hopes for Schroeder on this team moving forward and I'm convinced that Schneider will be a top 15 goalie in the league, but they're expendable for this return because it fills a lot of needs for the Canucks.

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Old
02-15-2011, 11:47 PM
  #7
The Turret
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Nah I dont want to deal Cowen... certainly not if Phillips isnt resigned or if we dont draft Larsson.

And with Kelly being traded I dont see Smith going anywhere.


Sorry!

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Old
02-15-2011, 11:47 PM
  #8
Red
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Quote:
Essentially
Cowen for Schneider + Schroeder

2nd + 5th for Carkner, Smith, Elliot.
I'd do the "essentially" part for the Canucks over the summer easily. Absolutely no need for Carkner though and I don't see a place for Smith on the roster either.

Really hard to see Schneider being dealt until the offseason.

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Old
02-15-2011, 11:55 PM
  #9
ReginKarlssonLehner
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Sens say hell no.

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Old
02-15-2011, 11:57 PM
  #10
Ho Borvat
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i agree that it would be unlikely for schneider to move until the offseason. I think elliot would be a fine backup, and could play say 1/5 of the remaining games which would keep luongo rested. I know they like cory, but he is expendable for van. Schroeder will be stuck behind cody on the depth chart, and schneider is stuck behind luongo. Cowen would be vans number one d-prospect and he would have plenty of opportunity to make the team in the near future. This helps round vans roster for the playoffs while not hurting their future tooooo nuch. Ottawa gets 2 former 1st rounders as well as some draft picks for their rebuild.

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Old
02-15-2011, 11:57 PM
  #11
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To the fan who would do Schroeder+Schneider for Cowen easily, are you a Vancouver fan? If you are, you're doing it wrong.

Thank God Gillis is our GM, and not some of you.

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02-16-2011, 12:01 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red View Post
I'd do the "essentially" part for the Canucks over the summer easily. Absolutely no need for Carkner though and I don't see a place for Smith on the roster either.

Really hard to see Schneider being dealt until the offseason.
Really? He seems like a decent upgrade over our 4th line centers.

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Old
02-16-2011, 12:11 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh Whitbread View Post
To the fan who would do Schroeder+Schneider for Cowen easily, are you a Vancouver fan? If you are, you're doing it wrong.

Thank God Gillis is our GM, and not some of you.
Sens fan.

Would not trade Cowen for Schneider + Schroeder. Don't want the short little guy that Schroeder is, and Schneider is unproven - and to the extent he is proven - is not worth giving up Cowen's unique package.

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Old
02-16-2011, 12:17 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Griffin View Post
Make it simple, Schneider and Cowen, something based around them and an off-season move.
Yeah giving up two good prospects for one good prospect, doesn't interest me too much, seems a smidgen over payment, as CS is getting better and better.

However, if ya change it to a 3rd round pick instead of 2nd rounder, I'd reluctantly do it imo.

Smith would be a upgrade over any of our 4th line centermen currently.

In addition this is a type of deal I see Gillis doing, packing Schneider to land a good young dman, if not, Schneider is playing really well backing up and learning from Luongo, plus getting us some wins! Helping our record.

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Old
02-16-2011, 12:19 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagee View Post
Yeah giving up two good prospects for one good prospect, doesn't interest me too much, seems a smidgen over payment, as CS is getting better and better.

However, if ya change it to a 3rd round pick instead of 2nd rounder, I'd reluctantly do it imo.

Smith would be a upgrade over any of our 4th line centermen currently.
Given the very low market for goalie prospects (see: Halak last year), "value" wise, Vancouver wins this exchange.

It's a moot point though - it won't happen, Cowen is not going anywhere.

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Old
02-16-2011, 12:26 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyke View Post
Sens fan.

Would not trade Cowen for Schneider + Schroeder. Don't want the short little guy that Schroeder is, and Schneider is unproven - and to the extent he is proven - is not worth giving up Cowen's unique package.
All I remember about Cowen is him being a healthy scratch at the WJs when he was expected to finally be a top player. He's having a good year in his fifth season in the WHL, good on him. I understand Ottawa needs something to hype, as their on-ice product is really un-hypeable.

Meanwhile, Schroeder is already contributing at the AHL level, just as he did last season as well. He's also the top scoring player in American WJ history, compared to Cowen's horrendous showing.

So you keep your giant, and we'll keep our "short little guy" and likely franchise goaltender, for a different franchise, hopefully one he can actually win in.

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Old
02-16-2011, 12:33 AM
  #17
LickTheEnvelope
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh Whitbread View Post
All I remember about Cowen is him being a healthy scratch at the WJs when he was expected to finally be a top player. He's having a good year in his fifth season in the WHL, good on him.

Meanwhile, Schroeder is already contributing at the AHL level, just as he did last season as well. He's also the top scoring player in American WJ history, compared to Cowen's horrendous showing.

So you keep your giant, and we'll keep our "short little guy" and likely franchise goaltender, for a different franchise, hopefully one he can actually win in.
This...

As a Canuck fan there's no way I make this deal.

Schneider is allready showing he's an NHL goaltender. Schroeder has been decent in his first AHL season, obviously needs to add some girth.

I can't see the Canucks having any interest at all in Elliott or Carkner (especially Carkner... dude is awful. Like Alberts but slower).

Smith is an interesting but I'd rather the Canucks keep their 2nd round pick as I like the looks of a lot of players in the 2nd round in this years draft.

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Old
02-16-2011, 12:36 AM
  #18
Red
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh Whitbread View Post
To the fan who would do Schroeder+Schneider for Cowen easily, are you a Vancouver fan? If you are, you're doing it wrong.

Thank God Gillis is our GM, and not some of you.
Uh, yeah I'm a Vancouver fan. Are you serious?

Schroeder + Schneider for Cowen is fair for us. What would you propose we give up in return? You have to give to get. Fair enough if you wouldn't do the deal or don't like Cowen - I watch a lot of WHL games and like Cowen quite a bit. No need to be so condescending.

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Old
02-16-2011, 12:36 AM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh Whitbread View Post
All I remember about Cowen is him being a healthy scratch at the WJs when he was expected to finally be a top player. He's having a good year in his fifth season in the WHL, good on him. I understand Ottawa needs something to hype, as their on-ice product is really un-hypeable.

Meanwhile, Schroeder is already contributing at the AHL level, just as he did last season as well. He's also the top scoring player in American WJ history, compared to Cowen's horrendous showing.

So you keep your giant, and we'll keep our "short little guy" and likely franchise goaltender, for a different franchise, hopefully one he can actually win in.
I love how horribly uninformed you are, but thanks for playing.

Jared Cowen was one of the best players on the ice this past season at the WJC.
Last season, he was a healthy scratch at the WJCs when, you know, he was coming off a very serious knee injury.

He won a Memorial Cup as a 15 year old for the Spokane Chiefs.

He could have played in the NHL this season, but Murray wanted to give him the chance to develop his offensive game and fully recover from that serious knee injury. Since returning to Spokane, as a "defensive" d-man, he has 14 goals and 36 points in 43 games. Oh, and he's 6'5/220.

Cowen, healthy, would have gone top 3 in his draft year. Blowing out his knee lead to questions, like, "Would he return to form?" He also missed half a year of development (and arguably, most of last season too).

However, he projects to be a top shutdown pairing defender who can skate and play in all situations. Frankly, there's no reason to give up on him - especially since his weaknesses are so strongly complemented by Erik Karlsson's gifts.

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Old
02-16-2011, 12:37 AM
  #20
Bleach Clean
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh Whitbread View Post
To the fan who would do Schroeder+Schneider for Cowen easily, are you a Vancouver fan? If you are, you're doing it wrong.

Thank God Gillis is our GM, and not some of you.


I couldn't believe it myself. I've made some pretty terrible proposals on here, so I understand the difficulty in making a good one. But when posters endorse trades like this, I just don't understand it. What drives people to evaluate Cowen as much more likely to achieve his upside, when Schneider is already reaching his? And that somehow makes Cowen a more valuable asset? Why?


Further to that? Even _if_ Cowen achieves his potential, is there such a disparity between him achieving his than Schneider getting to his --> Which he seems to be closing in on.


Finally, Cowen is a Defensive Dman. Gillis is moving away from acquiring this type of player. All values aside, the style of the player matters here. Conversely, he would covet puck movers a great deal. So a team that wants Schneider, and wishes to deal a D prospect in return, should look to puck moving Dmen as chips going the other way, not defensive Dmen.



Red: Hugh's post was a little condescending, but I agree with it. The value being placed on Cowen in relation to the prospects offered is just off --> It is not a two for one "easily". Simply put, Schneider has shown enough upside that trading for a developing defensive dman prospect isn't a preferred return. It get's worse when you throw Schroeder in there, and remark on the ease in which you would deal the two for Cowen. Not enough value given to what Vancouver offers.


Last edited by Bleach Clean: 02-16-2011 at 12:44 AM.
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Old
02-16-2011, 12:41 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
This...

As a Canuck fan there's no way I make this deal.

Schneider is allready showing he's an NHL goaltender. Schroeder has been decent in his first AHL season, obviously needs to add some girth.

I can't see the Canucks having any interest at all in Elliott or Carkner (especially Carkner... dude is awful. Like Alberts but slower).

Smith is an interesting but I'd rather the Canucks keep their 2nd round pick as I like the looks of a lot of players in the 2nd round in this years draft.
there are players slower than alberts?!?!?!?

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Old
02-16-2011, 12:43 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyke View Post
Sens fan.

Would not trade Cowen for Schneider + Schroeder. Don't want the short little guy that Schroeder is, and Schneider is unproven - and to the extent he is proven - is not worth giving up Cowen's unique package.
And Cowens a 3 time NHL all star?

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Old
02-16-2011, 12:44 AM
  #23
Red
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
I couldn't believe it myself. I've made some pretty terrible proposals on here, so I understand the difficulty in making a good one. But when posters endorse trades like this, I just don't understand it.
What's so impossible to understand? Sometimes I really do think our fans overvalue our prospects insanely and then undervalue others. If Cowen was our prospect, you would be demanding the moon and the stars for him.

Some of us think Schneider won't necessarily get us a great return - we're not getting a 1st + awesome prospect for him. I watch a lot of WHL games and Cowen is a terrific prospect. He'd be a very sound return for Schneider. Schroeder is very hit or miss and while I'd rather not give him up at this point, if he was the dealbreaker, I'd still do this trade.

Perhaps it's not the deal people would expect or want but it would be far from a terrible return. But yeah, Schneider isn't getting traded until this summer at the earliest so it's all moot.

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Old
02-16-2011, 12:45 AM
  #24
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Just as an inquiry, how do you watch a lot of WHL games, specifically the Spokane Chiefs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyke View Post
I love how horribly uninformed you are, but thanks for playing.
I'm sorry I don't religiously follow the prospect hype-machine. I only go by what I've seen, and I've never seen much from Cowen. If you all are really excited that he's dominating in his fifth year in the WHL, so be it. Mike Komisarek was an offensive dynamo at the junior level too.

I'm sure you don't know everything about Schroeder either, but you'll find about him in a couple years when he's lighting it up on Ryan Kesler's wing.

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Old
02-16-2011, 12:48 AM
  #25
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This deal seems lopsided in the Canucks favour. I would get rid of the fluff, and work around Cowen and Schneider/Schroeder.

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