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Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

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Old
02-16-2011, 12:49 AM
  #26
Reverend Mayhem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyke View Post
Given the very low market for goalie prospects (see: Halak last year), "value" wise, Vancouver wins this exchange.
That's just a trend. I'd be willing to wait that out if it meant getting better return for CS.

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Old
02-16-2011, 12:55 AM
  #27
maroon 6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyke View Post
I love how horribly uninformed you are, but thanks for playing.

Jared Cowen was one of the best players on the ice this past season at the WJC.
Last season, he was a healthy scratch at the WJCs when, you know, he was coming off a very serious knee injury.

He won a Memorial Cup as a 15 year old for the Spokane Chiefs.

He could have played in the NHL this season, but Murray wanted to give him the chance to develop his offensive game and fully recover from that serious knee injury. Since returning to Spokane, as a "defensive" d-man, he has 14 goals and 36 points in 43 games. Oh, and he's 6'5/220.

Cowen, healthy, would have gone top 3 in his draft year. Blowing out his knee lead to questions, like, "Would he return to form?" He also missed half a year of development (and arguably, most of last season too).

However, he projects to be a top shutdown pairing defender who can skate and play in all situations.
Frankly, there's no reason to give up on him - especially since his weaknesses are so strongly complemented by Erik Karlsson's gifts.
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=875651 post 4

Your the same guy that said Hodgson is a broken asset cause his injuries "scare" you. How ironic eh? Oh and about the WJC isnt Schroeder tied for the most overal points by an American?

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Old
02-16-2011, 12:58 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MONEYMO View Post
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=875651 post 4

Your the same guy that said Hodgson is a broken asset cause his injuries "scare" you. How ironic eh?
Hodgson has had injuries since he was drafted.

Cowen's was pre-draft.

There's a difference. I'm sorry you aren't able to process what it is.

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Old
02-16-2011, 12:59 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoreMogilny View Post
This deal seems lopsided in the Canucks favour. I would get rid of the fluff, and work around Cowen and Schneider/Schroeder.
? How is that?

The Canucks have no use at all for Carkner or Elliott. Cowen would be a nice prospect to have, but we're dumping Schneider, Schroeder and a 2nd for a nice prospect? And one who has had injury issues (same type of deal Canuck fans get ragged on for Hodgson).

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Old
02-16-2011, 01:01 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
? How is that?

The Canucks have no use at all for Carkner or Elliott. Cowen would be a nice prospect to have, but we're dumping Schneider, Schroeder and a 2nd for a nice prospect? And one who has had injury issues (same type of deal Canuck fans get ragged on for Hodgson).
Hodgson's injuries occured POST drafting, that's the difference,.

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Old
02-16-2011, 01:01 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyke View Post
Hodgson has had injuries since he was drafted.

Cowen's was pre-draft.

There's a difference. I'm sorry you aren't able to process what it is.
Injury is an injury.

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Old
02-16-2011, 01:02 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh Whitbread View Post
Just as an inquiry, how do you watch a lot of WHL games, specifically the Spokane Chiefs?
I've followed the WHL for a while and have the all-access pass. I go to Giants games when I can and Rockets games when I'm in Kelowna.

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Old
02-16-2011, 01:04 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyke View Post
Hodgson's injuries occured POST drafting, that's the difference,.
Absolutely beyond ridiculous reasoning. They've both sustained one significant injury that they're both over now.

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Old
02-16-2011, 01:06 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red View Post
I've followed the WHL for a while and have the all-access pass. I go to Giants games when I can and Rockets games when I'm in Kelowna.
Well then you have a better opinion of Cowen than I do.

I still don't think he's a Gillis-type defenceman, and I still take two potential impact players at the NHL over one, especially when their potentials at this point (save for maybe Schneider) are all hovering around the same level of impact. Granted, Schroeder is probably less likely to reach his full potential than Cowen, but I have a lot of faith in Vancouver's player development, and Schroeder is already in that system.

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Old
02-16-2011, 01:08 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh Whitbread View Post
Well then you have a better opinion of Cowen than I do.

I still don't think he's a Gillis-type defenceman, and I still take two potential impact players at the NHL over one, especially when their potentials at this point (save for maybe Schneider) are all hovering around the same level of impact.
Fair enough.

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Old
02-16-2011, 02:00 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bileur View Post
Cowen is not going anywhere.
Bingo!

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Old
02-16-2011, 02:49 AM
  #37
LickTheEnvelope
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How about this one at the draft:

To Ottawa:

Schneider + 5th Round pick

To Vancouver:

Ottawa's 2nd and 4th Round picks.

Seeing as how Ottawa has two firsts and two seconds this would give them much more stability in goaltending and they don't have to move a first.

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Old
02-16-2011, 02:59 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
How about this one at the draft:

To Ottawa:

Schneider + 5th Round pick

To Vancouver:

Ottawa's 2nd and 4th Round picks.

Seeing as how Ottawa has two firsts and two seconds this would give them much more stability in goaltending and they don't have to move a first.
I think that's a fair deal but I think Gillis would want something that can help the Canucks NOW for Schneider.

Getting a pick in the 31-33 range might be good for something down the road 3 to 5 years but the Canucks window to win is now and if he can add a player that can help the Canucks now that likely would be the best return.

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Old
02-16-2011, 03:21 AM
  #39
Kickassguy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MONEYMO View Post
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=875651 post 4

Your the same guy that said Hodgson is a broken asset cause his injuries "scare" you. How ironic eh? Oh and about the WJC isnt Schroeder tied for the most overal points by an American?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyke View Post
Hodgson has had injuries since he was drafted.

Cowen's was pre-draft.

There's a difference. I'm sorry you aren't able to process what it is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyke View Post
Hodgson's injuries occured POST drafting, that's the difference,.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MONEYMO View Post
Injury is an injury.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red View Post
Absolutely beyond ridiculous reasoning. They've both sustained one significant injury that they're both over now.
LOL. Good catch there. I'm just enjoying the tapdancing now. Hope he keeps it up.

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Old
02-16-2011, 03:24 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kickassguy View Post
LOL. Good catch there. I'm just enjoying the tapdancing now. Hope he keeps it up.
lol poor Ottawa fan there. He can't even bring up the HOW MANY CUPS HAVE YOU WON crap to try and get out of this.

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Old
02-16-2011, 03:36 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyke View Post
Hodgson has had injuries since he was drafted.

Cowen's was pre-draft.

There's a difference. I'm sorry you aren't able to process what it is.
Cowen has had an injury that he has never looked the same after. THAT's the difference.

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Old
02-16-2011, 04:15 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
How about this one at the draft:

To Ottawa:

Schneider + 5th Round pick

To Vancouver:

Ottawa's 2nd and 4th Round picks.

Seeing as how Ottawa has two firsts and two seconds this would give them much more stability in goaltending and they don't have to move a first.
I'm not too fond of this proposal, it lacks an impact player for the now. And it doesn't do it for me wow wise either. N moving Schneider is a knock my socks off asset IMHO. He is too solid n still signed next year.

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Old
02-16-2011, 04:56 AM
  #43
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Maybe in the offseason.

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Old
02-16-2011, 06:35 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red View Post
What's so impossible to understand? Sometimes I really do think our fans overvalue our prospects insanely and then undervalue others. If Cowen was our prospect, you would be demanding the moon and the stars for him.

It's a proposal that places no value on the development process whatsoever. You give up on assets too quickly. It wouldn't matter if Cowen was in the system or not. If there was a shiny new prospect that peaked interest in the future, then what's to stop one from shipping Cowen out to acquire said player and starting the cycle again? Meaning, the wheels keep spinning...


Quote:
Some of us think Schneider won't necessarily get us a great return - we're not getting a 1st + awesome prospect for him. I watch a lot of WHL games and Cowen is a terrific prospect. He'd be a very sound return for Schneider. Schroeder is very hit or miss and while I'd rather not give him up at this point, if he was the dealbreaker, I'd still do this trade.

Perhaps it's not the deal people would expect or want but it would be far from a terrible return. But yeah, Schneider isn't getting traded until this summer at the earliest so it's all moot.

Schroeder was hit or miss when he was drafted. That's why he fell. Still doesn't change the reason he was drafted, or the reason he has been retained = upside. Why not take the time to develop him and see what you have? The problem with trading any prospects, even Cowen, is that there is a real chance the team ends up looking foolish and impatient.


And really, this came down to you stating that you would "easily" do this trade. That's just off. Why? Because there are so many variables involved in a prospect for prospect deal that its hard to ascertain value. The disparity cannot be quantified. Nothing is "easy" in that. One side says the potential of X is higher, the other believes in Y. And yet another mentions Y's likelyhood of reaching his potential over X, despite X's ceiling being higher. How do you account for that? If X is unlikely to reach his full potential, is he considered a weaker asset than Y, despite having the higher ceiling. Who is much more likely to round out his game? Etc...

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Old
02-16-2011, 07:56 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kickassguy View Post
LOL. Good catch there. I'm just enjoying the tapdancing now. Hope he keeps it up.
There's no tap dancing at all.

Saying "an injury is an injury" is as misleading as to say "this is like any other case involving blue cars".

There's different severities, magnitudes, timings... Additionally, a *pre-draft* injury tempers initial expectations whereas a *post-draft* injury makes it possible it was not the best pick (in hindsight).

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricCartman View Post
Cowen has had an injury that he has never looked the same after. THAT's the difference.
Actually, Cowen has looked fine for the last 12 months.

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Old
02-16-2011, 08:20 AM
  #46
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Not bad. This deal certainly helps both teams.

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Old
02-16-2011, 09:44 AM
  #47
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As a Canucks fan I'd reluctantly trade Schroeder and Schneider for Cowen. We still have Hodgson, Rodin, and Shirokov as high end forward prospects, but we have no high end defenseman prospects.

Would Ottawa fans feel more comfortable getting Rodin instead of Schroeder? It all depends who you value more. Rodin is doing well in his first full season in the SEL, and is touted as an excellent two way player with high offensive upside. He was heavily praised by Gradin when he was drafted, we intended to take him in the 1st round but ironically enough we couldn't pass on the skill that Jordan Schroeder brings so we took him in the 1st and were still able to snag Rodin in the 2nd.

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Old
02-16-2011, 09:58 AM
  #48
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Schneider = Cowen... + Schroeder? wait.. what?

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Old
02-16-2011, 10:18 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricCartman View Post
Cowen has had an injury that he has never looked the same after. THAT's the difference.
You don't know what you're talking about. Cowen had the injury and looks better than he ever did. Don't post if you don't know what you're posting about.

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Old
02-16-2011, 10:18 AM
  #50
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Sens won't be moving Cowen, it's as simple as that.

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