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Pierre Durocher - The 4 Untouchables

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Old
02-16-2011, 05:43 PM
  #51
NHLcrazy
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Originally Posted by Poulet Kostopoulos View Post
I would NEVER EVER trade both Plek and Subban for Malkin. Plek and Subban, combined, have much more to offer than one Malkin. Probably for Crosby but not Malkin.
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Originally Posted by beowulf View Post
I would have to agree with that, especially since Malkin has not been amazing over the last year. I am sure it is only a temporary funk but with knee surgery who knows.
Malkin is only 24 years old and put up more than 105Pts twice already and he's a playoff performer.

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02-16-2011, 05:43 PM
  #52
OneSharpMarble
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No untouchables, just players that would require massive overpayment to move. I guess that doesn't sound as catchy though.

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02-16-2011, 05:58 PM
  #53
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Every player has a price.

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02-16-2011, 06:54 PM
  #54
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I don't think that people get what the term "untouchable" means, in the context of a NHL GM's assessment of a player.

What it means is that you don't trade him unless you're given substantial overpayment. In other words, he's a guy that you would not include in a lateral or "fair value" trade. You value him too much to do that.

And since substantial overpayment trades almost never happen, such players are essentially untouchable.

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Old
02-16-2011, 07:15 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
Unless you think PK is more hype than substance?
I'm not on the 'Primetime' bandwagon yet, if thats what you mean. I do like him a lot though.

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Old
02-16-2011, 07:18 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by XperHFB View Post
For the rookies only Cam Fowler who is 19 has more points and more ice time per game then P.K. Subban.

But thas ok, we all know Pk will become our next franchise player.
Who talked about rookies ?

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Old
02-16-2011, 07:24 PM
  #57
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No one is, or should be "untouchable"... b/c as someone else pointed out, you never know when some other team might get into a desperate situation with a star player, and be willing to move him... I love having Pleks/Subban/MaxPac/Price, but if a significant upgrade was on the table for any of them, I'd take it.

of the 4, Price is probably the least likely to get moved in the forseable future, but again, if Washington came calling, fed up with ovechkin and convinced that building around a guy like Price was the answer... sorry Carey but enjoy D.C


That said, those 4 pieces are definitely great building blocks to have, and should form the "core" of our roster moving forward.

I'd add Gorges to that list, and wouldn't be surprised if one of Pouliot, Weber, Eller made a massive leap in the next 1-2 seasons and joined that list.

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Old
02-16-2011, 07:48 PM
  #58
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I wouldn't call Pac or Pleks untouchable. I wouldn't hesitate to move one or either if the right deal came along. I am also talking of realistic deals, not a hypothetical if we were offered Ovechkin or Crosby pie in the sky scenario.

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02-16-2011, 07:52 PM
  #59
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If 99 can be traded ....

But there are players that would require a kings ransom to move and we know who they are.

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02-16-2011, 07:55 PM
  #60
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The two super untouchables are Price and Subban. I really hope these can bring some cups to Montréal in the future.

I wouldn't trade Price for anything realistic. Yes, in that I'd include Crosby, Ovy and so on but not some crazy package of players and picks.

First there was a Roy, then there was a Brodeur, now there's a Price.

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02-16-2011, 10:37 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by MTL-rules View Post
Who talked about rookies ?
No one, whats your point? On avg his the second best rookie defenser on every aspect of the game... I think that's really important to mention.

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Old
02-16-2011, 10:40 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
No untouchables, just players that would require massive overpayment to move. I guess that doesn't sound as catchy though.
That's pretty much it.

It's easy to say Price, PK, Plekanec, Markov, Gorges, Max Pac are our most important players. They are this team, basically. To me the most untouchable one is Subban as you can find good goalies and I don't think there is that much difference between the good ones, the average ones and the bad ones but defensemen like PK are rare with that strength, skills, speed, hockey sense. I believe we have yet to see what he can really do. Then again if the Pens dangle Malkin for him....

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Old
02-16-2011, 10:43 PM
  #63
Poulet Kostopoulos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NHLcrazy View Post
Malkin is only 24 years old and put up more than 105Pts twice already and he's a playoff performer.
No matter. One Malkin can't replace a Subban and a Plekanec.

Points are only one side of the story because the defensive aspect doesn't give points. Although Malkin is good defensively, he cannot kill penalty for two full minutes, nor can he play 30+ good minutes every game. Same reasoning with the PP. Those are things that two good players like Subban and Plek can deliver.

And there's the inherent risk of putting all your eggs in one basket.

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02-16-2011, 10:48 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Right Price View Post
The two super untouchables are Price and Subban. I really hope these can bring some cups to Montréal in the future.

I wouldn't trade Price for anything realistic. Yes, in that I'd include Crosby, Ovy and so on but not some crazy package of players and picks.

First there was a Roy, then there was a Brodeur, now there's a Price.
I agree, thank god the flyers dont have price.

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Old
02-16-2011, 11:03 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poulet Kostopoulos View Post
No matter. One Malkin can't replace a Subban and a Plekanec.

Points are only one side of the story because the defensive aspect doesn't give points. Although Malkin is good defensively, he cannot kill penalty for two full minutes, nor can he play 30+ good minutes every game. Same reasoning with the PP. Those are things that two good players like Subban and Plek can deliver.

And there's the inherent risk of putting all your eggs in one basket.
Plekanec is our MVP. There are sooooo many things that he brings to our hockey team, he is trusted with the most responsibility of any player, PK,PP and late in games he is counted on to take critical face-offs, he is a master playmaker and the one guy we need to stay healthy. He is not replaceable by anyone on our roster or playing in Hamilton.

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Old
02-16-2011, 11:13 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
No untouchables, just players that would require massive overpayment to move. I guess that doesn't sound as catchy though.
Which goalie would you realistically trade Price for, given the fact that he hasn't even reached his prime yet? And also given the fact that this is a team current, and historically, relies highly on their goaltending.

I can't think of any.

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Old
02-16-2011, 11:19 PM
  #67
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If Pit offered Malkin for Plek and Subban MONTREAL WOULD DO IT IN A HEARTBEAT.

And I heard someone say MAYBE for Crosby? lol WHAT

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Old
02-16-2011, 11:30 PM
  #68
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Nobody is untouchable. Have we forgotten that Gretzky was traded?

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Old
02-16-2011, 11:46 PM
  #69
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Discussion is over.

The only untouchable player is Subban. Thats it, thats all.

Vive le quebec.

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Old
02-17-2011, 01:28 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by The Reem View Post
I agree with the first three

As for Plekanec , i would trade him but , to paraphrase the author , only under the right circumstances. IE : Getzlaf wants out of Anaheim and the Ducks need an immediate replacement so they ask for Plekanec + or some other crazy and unprobable scenario like that.
If you're going to say crazy and unprobable scenarios like this for Plekanec, you can do it for pretty much anybody.
Wouldn't you trade MaxPac for Corey Perry?
I'd trade PK for Crosby.

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Old
02-17-2011, 02:51 AM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Right Price View Post
The two super untouchables are Price and Subban. I really hope these can bring some cups to Montréal in the future.

I wouldn't trade Price for anything realistic. Yes, in that I'd include Crosby, Ovy and so on but not some crazy package of players and picks.

First there was a Roy, then there was a Brodeur, now there's a Price.
There'll be a Price to pay as well! Ha HA HA. What a stupid pun. Jeez I'm stupid. Sorry guys.

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Old
02-17-2011, 03:20 AM
  #72
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I think people have to differentiate 'untouchable' and 'I'd much rather keep them'. Pouliot is in no mean untouchable, even though I'd much rather keep him than not, I think he's playing great since a little while.

To me Price + Subban are the 2 untouchables because a very solid #1 goalie and a young potential #1 offensive d-man are VERY hard to find on the market and nearly every time a team ended up trading their #1 d-man they regretted it not too long after.

Pacioretty... not untouchable, but close for me. A young power-forward is also something very hard to find.

Plekanec? Not untouchable, even though I absolutely love him and never wish to see him trade. But he's not a type of player that is impossible to replace and not young enough to be sure he can be with us (or have high trade value) for another 10+ years.

To me the hardest things to find in the league are:

1) #1 offensive D-Man
2) Big first line center
3) Consistant #1 goaler
4) First line power-forward

Teams that have good ones hold on to them, and not many come out every draft. When you have a young one in your system, you just don't trade them.
I love this post. Montreal's 3 worst trades in recent history involved us getting rid of these rare top 4 assets. Chelios for Savard, Roy for peanuts, Leclair+ Desjardins for Recchi.

On another note, I think you are underrating Plekanec. He'll give you 65-75 pts consistently, he makes you one of the best pk teams in the league and he is the only player who can play with any linemates and still be equally effective. He plays well with anyone. He's a coach's dream player.

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Old
02-17-2011, 07:03 AM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Joker View Post
I don't think that people get what the term "untouchable" means, in the context of a NHL GM's assessment of a player.

What it means is that you don't trade him unless you're given substantial overpayment. In other words, he's a guy that you would not include in a lateral or "fair value" trade. You value him too much to do that.

And since substantial overpayment trades almost never happen, such players are essentially untouchable.
This.

A little common sense goes a long way...

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Old
02-17-2011, 08:31 AM
  #74
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For me:
1. Price / PK Subban
2. PK Subban / Price
3. Gorges (hopefully he'll come back a 100%...3-4yr contract).




Markov (very touchable,imo!! he will always be injured...always, and the day we replace him is the day we get closer to the CUP...I'm a Markov fan -love the way he plays cerebral- but he's never around long enough and it's gonna hurt us badly EVERY SEASON + he was never more than lukewarm/ok in playoffs). Markov is the reason I'm reminded of ''what would we do without PK?!!'' (No Markov is...bad, but no PK is the end of it all). I'll only respect Markov if he signs a 1yr deal at 4mil,max (2yrs at 4mil/year with bonuses would be the most I'd give him...if he gets greedy with his finished knees, then let him go...loyalty-schmoyalty...it's all about the $$$$$ with these NHLers, except for Gorges,imo!!).
NHL Lockout in a few years = NHL players' major showcase of GREED and NEED for more and more $$$$$.


Pacioretty and Kristo FOR Iginla (betcha many Hab fans would do this, but we may finally have a solid PF in Pacio, so I'm all for keeping him for a long long time, but he still has to learn how to protect himself better, not as bad as last year but he still gets hammered out there sometimes, I'm afraid for his health).

Pleks (has a NO trade clause for another 5 years...naturally untouchable! and he's solid solid solid...didn't think he was going to be this good 4-5 yrs ago, I thought he was going to be a solid 3rd liner with underrated offensive skills, glad I was so wrong...he's a no.1 center on at least half of the NHL teams,imo).

Gionta (according to some here he has a NO trade clause? didn't know this...?? is this true?? and/but many here would trade Gionta+Weber+__?__ for Parise...many,imo... besides this I'm glad we have Gio, but he's not untouchable,imo).

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Old
02-17-2011, 04:33 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
and uhh Markov.
-----------------------------------------------------
Not anymore!

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