HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Pittsburgh-Buffalo Proposal

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-30-2004, 03:01 PM
  #26
Chainshot
Global Moderator
Give 'em Enough Rope
 
Chainshot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Costa Rica
Country: Costa Rica
Posts: 57,081
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by tallpenguin






You can't compare prospects who haven't played a single minute on NHL ice - no matter how promising they are - with players who have proven to be able to score in the big league. Vanek, Paille and the likes are obviously more highly touted and have more potentials than Tomas Surovy. But until they have proven their ability to score in the NHL, as Surovy has, it's too early to claim that these upper-echelon prospects are "better" than Surovy.
To put words in DB48's mouth for a moment---Surovy doesn't help Buffalo since they already have a glut of forwards. Vanek, Paille, et. al. may not be more proven than Surovy, but in terms of the Sabres depthchart, obtaining a forward in a deal doesn't make much sense. Their lacking in depth on D and are awash with forwards both on roster and in prospects. So dealing one of their few proven D for another forward doesn't add up.

__________________
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. - Aristotle
Chainshot is offline  
Old
06-30-2004, 05:03 PM
  #27
Ruckus007
Said too much
 
Ruckus007's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Huntington, WV
Posts: 7,423
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by saba
Could a deal be reached to send Beech for Connelly?

How about Morozov for J.P. Dumont?


They both seem like pretty lateral moves to me, what's the point?




Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielBriere48
What are you laughing at?Connolly has more skill in his right foot then Surovy has all together.Connolly is one of the most skilled players in the league.Connolly has scored 40 points in a season 2 times before,how many times has Surovy had?And Funny thing is Connolly is the same age.And You can't even compare them at full potential,as Surovy at full potential is a 20 goal scorer,while Connolly is a 60 assist playmaking center.

Tell me DB, exactly how much of Surovy have you seen?

Ruckus007 is offline  
Old
06-30-2004, 05:40 PM
  #28
TVanek26*
 
TVanek26*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Buffalo,New York
Country: United States
Posts: 8,583
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to TVanek26*
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruckus007
They both seem like pretty lateral moves to me, what's the point?







Tell me DB, exactly how much of Surovy have you seen?

I have Center Ice,I watch a lot of games.

TVanek26* is offline  
Old
06-30-2004, 06:17 PM
  #29
Ruckus007
Said too much
 
Ruckus007's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Huntington, WV
Posts: 7,423
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielBriere48
I have Center Ice,I watch a lot of games.

Including Wilkes-Barre maybe? Do you watch every game on the league schedule? Do you scrutinize every player? I sure don't have time to do that. All I know is Surovy's numbers through 73 games are better than Connolly through his first 81. But Connolly is a 60 assist player and Surovy's top end potential is 20 goalies? I know you buy into James Patrick's evaluation of players. Did you know Mario Lemieux compared Surovy to Peter Bondra?

Ruckus007 is offline  
Old
06-30-2004, 07:07 PM
  #30
JOHNBOY
BUFFALO SABRES
 
JOHNBOY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Denver NC
Country: United States
Posts: 10,161
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to JOHNBOY
Aren't all of the Penguin players under 20???





So I would consider most of them still "PROSPECTS"......

JOHNBOY is offline  
Old
06-30-2004, 07:48 PM
  #31
Big McLargehuge
Global Moderator
Bitter Buffalo
 
Big McLargehuge's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Los Angeles
Country: Iceland
Posts: 57,616
vCash: 50
Surovy was 20 when he was drafted thank you very much...

__________________
“The most terrifying fact about the universe is not that it is hostile, but that it is indifferent. If we can come to terms with this indifference and accept the challenges of life within the boundaries of death, our existence as a species can have genuine meaning and fulfillment. However vast the darkness, we must supply our own light.” - Stanley Kubrick
Big McLargehuge is online now  
Old
06-30-2004, 10:16 PM
  #32
clefty
What?
 
clefty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Country: Fujairah
Posts: 15,692
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielBriere48
What are you laughing at?Connolly has more skill in his right foot then Surovy has all together.Connolly is one of the most skilled players in the league.
Come on now. Conolly is one of the most skilled players in the league? Since when does scoring 25 points in a season make you one of the most skilled players in the league? Such a statement is nonsensical and laughable, particularly seeing as there is IMO, a question mark over whether he can come back and play at a high standard after missing the entire season.

Irregardless, he doesn't even have the skill Surovy has. More skill in his right foot....talk about exaggeration. Last season, a rookie Surovy had just 14 less points than Connolly while playing in 55 less games.

Quote:
Connolly has scored 40 points in a season 2 times before,how many times has Surovy had?And Funny thing is Connolly is the same age
Connolly was drafted in 1999, Surovy was drafted in 2001, so the two being the same age doesn't mean anything.

Quote:
And a big NO for the Morozov-Dumont proposal.He's injury prone and even more inconsistent then JP.
Morozov has had one major injury in his seven-year career. One.

clefty is offline  
Old
06-30-2004, 10:18 PM
  #33
capman29
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 256
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielBriere48
Miroslav Satan
JP Dumont
Ales Kotalik
Jochen Hecht
Chris Drury
Maxim Afinogenov
Derek Roy
Daniel Briere
Taylor Pyatt
Tim Connolly

And then in the wings
Thomas Vanek
Daniel Paille
Jason Pominville
Paul Gaustud
If these guys are so good why is your team so baaaaaaaaaaaaaad and has problems scoring?

capman29 is offline  
Old
06-30-2004, 10:44 PM
  #34
Moskau
Registered User
 
Moskau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Western New York
Posts: 12,283
vCash: 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by capman29
If these guys are so good why is your team so baaaaaaaaaaaaaad and has problems scoring?
Buffalo was 6th in the East in scoring.

They scored more goals than Montreal, New York, Atlanta, and even Boston.

Even with Satan having a bad year, Hecht missing the first quarter, and Kotalik having a bad year they managed to finish 6th. And Drury wasn't too hot either.

I fail to see how Buffalo had that much trouble scoring.

Moskau is offline  
Old
06-30-2004, 11:10 PM
  #35
PensFan68
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 2,801
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mario66
Surovy won't score 40, but he could score 30. He'll look really nice next to Malkin. I'll keep him.
Short and too the point, and I agree. While he isn't going to be a regular 40 goal scorer, I can see him averaging about 30 throughout his career. Not looking to deal him (well, for McKee).

PensFan68 is offline  
Old
06-30-2004, 11:17 PM
  #36
TVanek26*
 
TVanek26*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Buffalo,New York
Country: United States
Posts: 8,583
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to TVanek26*
Quote:
Originally Posted by capman29
If these guys are so good why is your team so baaaaaaaaaaaaaad and has problems scoring?
Hey,it's Big Train's brother!

I hope so bad that Ovechkin bust' to shut up guys like you who think you're teams hot **** because of your "savior"

TVanek26* is offline  
Old
07-01-2004, 08:33 AM
  #37
stardog
Registered User
 
stardog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,994
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielBriere48
Hey,it's Big Train's brother!

I hope so bad that Ovechkin bust' to shut up guys like you who think you're teams hot **** because of your "savior"
IMO you are being just as "off" in your evaluations as Big Train ever was.
Connolly one of the "most skilled players in the league"????!!!!!?????
The Sabres have 12 players better than Surovy???!!!!??
I mean come on dude! He is skilled and all but he isnt even the most skilled player on the Sabres, let alone the whole league.

And you are MASSIVLEY under rating Surovy, as his numbers are better than that of connolly's through his first 75 odd games (which is all we have to go by when talking about Surovy).

Then you make the statement that he is better even with the concussion. Thats great. Tell me how many points did he score this year with that concussion?

And how many points did he score in 2003? Heck, Surovy scored 2 less points that Connolly despite playing in 33 less games.

I could care less if you think Connolly is the better player. He certainly may well turn out to be. But the way you exxagerate your point to make it seem like he worlds better (which at this point I think Surovy is the better player though TC has more potential) is ridiculous.

People have pointed out the stats to refute your argument and you dont bother to reply. You only reply to take a cheap shot which has nothing to do with the points you were refuted on and harped on.

Connolly first 81 games=34 points
Surovy first 73 games=34 points

Tell me again why he is soooo much better and one of the most skilled players in the league?

I like Connolly alot and my point here isnt to bash him because I think he can certainly be a fine player in this league. A REAL good one.
My point here is to point out that your logic is way off and that you dont know anything about Surovy. It is also to point out that you are both over rating Connolly and under rating Surovy and it is quite transparent and obvious.

Just because you have center ice (which I have as well), doesnt mean you watch Surovy. Because as it stands right now, I dont think you watch him at all as is evidenced by your analysis.

stardog is offline  
Old
07-01-2004, 10:52 AM
  #38
tom_servo
Registered User
 
tom_servo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 11,530
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielBriere48
What are you laughing at?Connolly has more skill in his right foot then Surovy has all together.Connolly is one of the most skilled players in the league.Connolly has scored 40 points in a season 2 times before,how many times has Surovy had?
You should probably take a Mulligan on this one.

tom_servo is offline  
Old
07-01-2004, 02:23 PM
  #39
SabresRule
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,314
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to SabresRule
we need defensive prospects and this doesnt help. Survoy may be solid, but his not what we need.

SabresRule is offline  
Old
07-01-2004, 03:14 PM
  #40
JOHNBOY
BUFFALO SABRES
 
JOHNBOY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Denver NC
Country: United States
Posts: 10,161
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to JOHNBOY
Quote:
Originally Posted by capman29
If these guys are so good why is your team so baaaaaaaaaaaaaad and has problems scoring?
9th place is bad, huh?

What the hell does that make the Penguins??



You obviously don't know what you are talking about.
Problems scoring??







JOHNBOY is offline  
Old
07-01-2004, 03:21 PM
  #41
JOHNBOY
BUFFALO SABRES
 
JOHNBOY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Denver NC
Country: United States
Posts: 10,161
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to JOHNBOY
Tim Connolly:

23 yrs. old
325 games
46 goals
99 assists

*1 conncussion

Tomas Surovy:

22 yrs. old
73 games
15 goals
19 assists

JOHNBOY is offline  
Old
07-01-2004, 03:47 PM
  #42
TVanek26*
 
TVanek26*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Buffalo,New York
Country: United States
Posts: 8,583
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to TVanek26*
Quote:
Originally Posted by stardog
Connolly one of the "most skilled players in the league"????!!!!!?????
The Sabres have 12 players better than Surovy???!!!!??
I mean come on dude! He is skilled and all but he isnt even the most skilled player on the Sabres, let alone the whole league.

And you are MASSIVLEY under rating Surovy, as his numbers are better than that of connolly's through his first 75 odd games (which is all we have to go by when talking about Surovy).

Then you make the statement that he is better even with the concussion. Thats great. Tell me how many points did he score this year with that concussion?

And how many points did he score in 2003? Heck, Surovy scored 2 less points that Connolly despite playing in 33 less games.




Connolly first 81 games=34 points
Surovy first 73 games=34 points

Tell me again why he is soooo much better and one of the most skilled players in the league?



Well first of all,Connolly was rushed into the NHL,and was on a very horrible team (like the Pens right now).So I don't like Surovy.He wouldn't play on the top 3 lines and that's all that matters.Am I going to trade a nice young defenseman for a guy who wouldn't play more then 10 minutes a night?Don't think so.

And Connolly is one of the most skilled players in the league,he is one of the best stickhandlers I have seen.Does skilled mean success?No.Daigle is highly skilled,but he isn't great.All of you assuming skilled means having success which it doesn't.Connolly with his skills can become an 80 point center,and everyone knows it.If he wasn't highly skilled he wouldn't reach 80 points.

Uh huh and keep on saying "Through the first 75 games blah blah blah".Last time I checked,a career isn't 75 games.So what if He came close to Connolly's rookie point total?Since then Connolly has posted two 40 point season's.When Surovy posts one (They're almost the same age), then you can debate.Until then,Connolly's offense is better then Surovys.

TVanek26* is offline  
Old
07-01-2004, 05:14 PM
  #43
regdunlap7
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: lowell, ma
Posts: 151
vCash: 500
As a fan of neither team (I'm a Montreal fan), let me say that I don't think this is a good trade for Buffalo. It's not horrible value wise, but it is definitely slanted toward Pittsburgh.

regdunlap7 is offline  
Old
07-02-2004, 02:01 AM
  #44
clefty
What?
 
clefty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Country: Fujairah
Posts: 15,692
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielBriere48
Uh huh and keep on saying "Through the first 75 games blah blah blah".Last time I checked,a career isn't 75 games.So what if He came close to Connolly's rookie point total?Since then Connolly has posted two 40 point season's.When Surovy posts one (They're almost the same age), then you can debate.Until then,Connolly's offense is better then Surovys.
Flawed reasoning.

75 games isn't a career, and neither is four seasons (in Connolly's case) or two incomplete seasons (in Surovy's).

You can't say Connolly has better offense just because he's had the chance to play four full seasons to Surovy's zero. Surovy hasn't had the opportunity to score a 40 point season yet.

Tim Connolly - 0.45 ppg
Tomas Surovy - 0.47 ppg

I don't see how Connolly has so much more skill than Tomas Surovy.

clefty is offline  
Old
07-02-2004, 08:13 AM
  #45
JOHNBOY
BUFFALO SABRES
 
JOHNBOY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Denver NC
Country: United States
Posts: 10,161
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to JOHNBOY
Quote:
Originally Posted by clefty
Flawed reasoning.

75 games isn't a career, and neither is four seasons (in Connolly's case) or two incomplete seasons (in Surovy's).

You can't say Connolly has better offense just because he's had the chance to play four full seasons to Surovy's zero. Surovy hasn't had the opportunity to score a 40 point season yet.

Tim Connolly - 0.45 ppg
Tomas Surovy - 0.47 ppg

I don't see how Connolly has so much more skill than Tomas Surovy.
PPG. doesn't show how much skill a player has...

JOHNBOY is offline  
Old
07-02-2004, 02:35 PM
  #46
SabresRule
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,314
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to SabresRule
Quote:
Originally Posted by clefty
Flawed reasoning.

75 games isn't a career, and neither is four seasons (in Connolly's case) or two incomplete seasons (in Surovy's).

You can't say Connolly has better offense just because he's had the chance to play four full seasons to Surovy's zero. Surovy hasn't had the opportunity to score a 40 point season yet.

Tim Connolly - 0.45 ppg
Tomas Surovy - 0.47 ppg

I don't see how Connolly has so much more skill than Tomas Surovy.
Connelly has much more skill than Survory. Survory lives far nearer his potential though. Connelly is miles from his.

SabresRule is offline  
Old
07-02-2004, 10:13 PM
  #47
Big McLargehuge
Global Moderator
Bitter Buffalo
 
Big McLargehuge's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Los Angeles
Country: Iceland
Posts: 57,616
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHNBOY
PPG. doesn't show how much skill a player has...
And neither does total points.

Jeez guys, Surovy can't just make up 250 games that Connolly has on him.

Big McLargehuge is online now  
Old
07-02-2004, 10:16 PM
  #48
DJ Spinoza
Registered User
 
DJ Spinoza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: Netherlands
Posts: 12,997
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Handsome B. Wonderful
And neither does total points.
Of course not. It all hinges on which player you watch for 82 games.


DJ Spinoza is offline  
Old
07-02-2004, 10:56 PM
  #49
clefty
What?
 
clefty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Country: Fujairah
Posts: 15,692
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SabresRule
Connelly has much more skill than Survory. Survory lives far nearer his potential though. Connelly is miles from his.
How can Surovy be closer to his potential than Connolly? He's played zero full seasons and 250 less games than Connolly.

Quote:
PPG. doesn't show how much skill a player has...
Oh, and this does?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHNBOY
Tim Connolly:

23 yrs. old
325 games
46 goals
99 assists

*1 conncussion

Tomas Surovy:

22 yrs. old
73 games
15 goals
19 assists
Whats the difference between these stats and the PPG stats I posted?

Surovy was drafted two years later than Connolly, by the way.

Doesn't matter, I can't win. One poster uses stats to justify why Connolly has more skill and thats okay. But I use stats to suggest why Surovy has the skill, and all of a sudden a certain statistic doesn't mean anything.

I don't see anything at all that says Connolly has "much more skill" than Surovy.


Last edited by clefty: 07-02-2004 at 11:03 PM.
clefty is offline  
Old
07-03-2004, 09:11 AM
  #50
The Tang
I like gooooollllddd
 
The Tang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Pittsburgh. PA
Country: United States
Posts: 7,269
vCash: 500
skill and potential mean absolutely nothing when you cant use it. Yes, Connelly may have more of both than Surovy, but right now, especially with a concussion he may not recover from, all that skill and potetntial absolutely jack. Surovy is playing, thats more you can say for Connelly.

dont like Surovy, fine. but dont try and deny him the credit he deserves. you have no problem with giving Connelly credit, and he hasnt touched a puck in a year.

The Tang is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:58 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2015 All Rights Reserved.