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Old
02-19-2011, 11:22 AM
  #1
I Am Chariot
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Why all the periphery play

Why does this team just get pushed to the periphery so often? Last night they had 2-3 quality chances and the rest are all bad angle peripheral stuff from the outside.

Is it just that they are too young to man up when the games get big? No one will attack the net, go to the $$$ areas for fear of getting injured?

Are they too small?

I know they are not the most skilled bunch but to me that means you attack the net even more, if you dump you chase hard and battle to get to the front of the net and muck it up.


Do they think they are more skilled than than they are?


What do you think Torts tells them looking at the video from games like last night? Its not just last night, they do it all the time when they lose. Stay to the outside where it's safe and maybe get a shot off at a bad angle and see if someone else will do the dirty work.

It's like this team is coached by Markus Naslund without the skill

I know it looks easier watching at home, but come on...

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02-19-2011, 11:48 AM
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I actually think that it once again comes down to a lack of top line skill. Seems somewhat counter-intuitive? That the problem sounds more like an unwillingness to go to the hard areas? Well, think about it - to get to the middle of the ice, you need to either a) make a guy miss, b) blow by him or c) receive a pass in the open after one of your teammates has drawn multiple defenders to him.

We have lots of guys (damn near the whole roster) who are willing to go to the dirty areas. That's not the problem. What we're lacking is the players who can get the puck into the clear for the dangerous scoring chance.

So, what winds up happening is that we skate in with speed... and get tied up along the boards, battle for a while and lose the puck. Or we get it back to the point... and shoot it into a crowd in front. What we rarely see is a guy suddenly come free one-on-one with the goalie at the faceoff circle or in. You know those moments that kind of freeze in time where the other team's fans suddenly go "Oh. ****." and then the puck's in the net? We don't get those - and IMO it's because we simply don't have the skill.

Encouragingly we do see flashes from Stepan, AA, and MZA and we saw some from MDZ last year. We even occasionally see it from Dubi. But all of them need to develop further - and even then I think we're still missing true top end, game breaking skill. This is the primary reason why I feel we're still smack dab in the middle of the rebuild process.

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02-19-2011, 12:09 PM
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02-19-2011, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
I actually think that it once again comes down to a lack of top line skill. Seems somewhat counter-intuitive? That the problem sounds more like an unwillingness to go to the hard areas? Well, think about it - to get to the middle of the ice, you need to either a) make a guy miss, b) blow by him or c) receive a pass in the open after one of your teammates has drawn multiple defenders to him.

We have lots of guys (damn near the whole roster) who are willing to go to the dirty areas. That's not the problem. What we're lacking is the players who can get the puck into the clear for the dangerous scoring chance.

So, what winds up happening is that we skate in with speed... and get tied up along the boards, battle for a while and lose the puck. Or we get it back to the point... and shoot it into a crowd in front. What we rarely see is a guy suddenly come free one-on-one with the goalie at the faceoff circle or in. You know those moments that kind of freeze in time where the other team's fans suddenly go "Oh. ****." and then the puck's in the net? We don't get those - and IMO it's because we simply don't have the skill.

Encouragingly we do see flashes from Stepan, AA, and MZA and we saw some from MDZ last year. We even occasionally see it from Dubi. But all of them need to develop further - and even then I think we're still missing true top end, game breaking skill. This is the primary reason why I feel we're still smack dab in the middle of the rebuild process.
Agree 100% Lots of guys with potential but of course also young I mean we're talking all of those guys are Soph and younger. It's no wonder consistency is an issue. It's almost like we are playing this simpler cave man game out of necessity to let the young ins find their hockey smarts while also being competitive. That competitiveness def leads me to believe we need that one huge scoring forward or center and we don't have nay this year. If Gabs hadn't dissappeared/ been half of what he was last year we're sitting in 4th easy right now fighting for the 1 overall seed. But of course we'd also have an extra 25-30 pts out of a single player and wouldn't have lost all of those 1 goal losses.

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02-19-2011, 12:33 PM
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Pretty simple. We lack skilled players who can make plays/hold onto the puck. Thus the constant dump and chase.

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02-19-2011, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
We have lots of guys (damn near the whole roster) who are willing to go to the dirty areas. That's not the problem. What we're lacking is the players who can get the puck into the clear for the dangerous scoring chance.

So, what winds up happening is that we skate in with speed... and get tied up along the boards, battle for a while and lose the puck. Or we get it back to the point... and shoot it into a crowd in front. What we rarely see is a guy suddenly come free one-on-one with the goalie at the faceoff circle or in. You know those moments that kind of freeze in time where the other team's fans suddenly go "Oh. ****." and then the puck's in the net? We don't get those - and IMO it's because we simply don't have the skill.

Encouragingly we do see flashes from Stepan, AA, and MZA and we saw some from MDZ last year. We even occasionally see it from Dubi. But all of them need to develop further - and even then I think we're still missing true top end, game breaking skill. This is the primary reason why I feel we're still smack dab in the middle of the rebuild process.

I don't see anyone aggressively going hard to the net. They all go for the end sweep and get pushed to the boards and their help also seems to be drawn like a magnet to the periphery (really don't understand this)

It's not going to work everytime but throw it at the net and get bodies into the dirty zones and muck it up. Even when it doesnt work it MAKES THE OTHER TEAM WORK HARDER AND WEARS THEM DOWN.

Rangers just make it to easy for the other teams to gameplan.

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02-19-2011, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
Encouragingly we do see flashes from Stepan, AA, and MZA and we saw some from MDZ last year. We even occasionally see it from Dubi. But all of them need to develop further - and even then I think we're still missing true top end, game breaking skill. This is the primary reason why I feel we're still smack dab in the middle of the rebuild process.
I hear you and I love the process. I am ok with where we are at with the homegrowns. But I have also noticed Step and MZA, MDZ looking really slow out there. Kids hitting the wall?

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02-19-2011, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by hpNYR View Post
Pretty simple. We lack skilled players who can make plays/hold onto the puck. Thus the constant dump and chase.
This. We have too many grinders. They arent skilled enough to hold onto the puck, they dont have the patience, they dont have the vision. They can battle with the best of them but thats about it. They dont have the offensive smarts either. No one's moving around in the offensive zone, going to open space in the slots/circles, etc. They panic and send the puck from the right point down the right boards to behind the net, up the left boards to the left point and vice versa. And they repeat this over and over again. Its becoming atrocious to watch.

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02-19-2011, 12:42 PM
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That's why I want Hemsky.

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02-19-2011, 12:43 PM
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we arent that good. we lack skill and the ability to create offensively. any team who dumps and chases on the manup and ices the puck on the man up, is seriously messed up. we spend most of our o zone time in scrums trying to recover pucks along the wall.

oh, and the pp continue to cost us games.

and lately ive not been impressed with torts ability to adapt. his in game decisions are odd. timeout torts ..... really ?

i see him as unable to motivate his players to come out of the malaise they've been in for 4 weeks.

this ship is taking on water fast. season slipping away.

time to do something.

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02-19-2011, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
we arent that good. we lack skill and the ability to create offensively. any team who dumps and chases on the manup and ices the puck on the man up, is seriously messed up. we spend most of our o zone time in scrums trying to recover pucks along the wall.

oh, and the pp continue to cost us games.

and lately ive not been impressed with torts ability to adapt. his in game decisions are odd. timeout torts ..... really ?

i see him as unable to motivate his players to come out of the malaise they've been in for 4 weeks.

this ship is taking on water fast. season slipping away.

time to do something.
Yes, time to commit to next year. Like we should've done last year at the deadline and the year before that too.

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02-19-2011, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
we arent that good. we lack skill and the ability to create offensively. any team who dumps and chases on the manup and ices the puck on the man up, is seriously messed up. we spend most of our o zone time in scrums trying to recover pucks along the wall.

oh, and the pp continue to cost us games.

and lately ive not been impressed with torts ability to adapt. his in game decisions are odd. timeout torts ..... really ?

i see him as unable to motivate his players to come out of the malaise they've been in for 4 weeks.

this ship is taking on water fast. season slipping away.

time to do something.
One of the few things I agree with you on LOL. If we had a better PP we wouldve won at least half of the 6 games during that losing streak. And we would've walked away with at least a point last night. Just dreadful

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02-19-2011, 12:47 PM
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Old Devils are back with Jacques and last night they were near perfect. They are once again the team I delete from my Center Ice package. BORING TRAP, TRAP TRAP.

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02-19-2011, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
Yes, time to commit to next year. Like we should've done last year at the deadline and the year before that too.
And the year before , and the yr before that.... right? Lets wave the flag and endorse a losing attitude. Its exactly what the youth on the team needs.

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02-19-2011, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Chariot View Post
I don't see anyone aggressively going hard to the net. They all go for the end sweep and get pushed to the boards and their help also seems to be drawn like a magnet to the periphery (really don't understand this)

It's not going to work everytime but throw it at the net and get bodies into the dirty zones and muck it up. Even when it doesnt work it MAKES THE OTHER TEAM WORK HARDER AND WEARS THEM DOWN.

Rangers just make it to easy for the other teams to gameplan.
But Chariot, this is what the Rangers DO do. It's why each year under Torts they've gotten off to good starts. Then, as the season grinds on, other teams up their level of play and the constant need to work harder in order to win takes its toll on your OWN players. THEY get worn down during the course of the season.

At a certain point, you need to have at least close to the same level of talent as the top teams in order to beat them. You don't always have to have more pure talent; work ethic, game planning and chemistry can push you past a slightly better team. But if you aren't at least within the same ballpark, you're simply not going to be able to compete in the long run.

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02-19-2011, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Blueblood 2 View Post
Old Devils are back with Jacques and last night they were near perfect. They are once again the team I delete from my Center Ice package. BORING TRAP, TRAP TRAP.

BORING TRAP, TRAP TRAP = WIN WIN WIN VEZINA VEZINA VEZINA

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02-19-2011, 12:54 PM
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And the year before , and the yr before that.... right? Lets wave the flag and endorse a losing attitude. Its exactly what the youth on the team needs.
Agree these are kids and they earned these wins and I doubt all of a sudden they just want to quit on the aseason they've busted their a**es in. The kids are taking their lumps this year and for the most part excelling...I don't get it what did certain people expect we'd do with something like 6 rooks and sophs playing every single day? I mean could you trade away EC, gilroy, Prospal? I guess but really who are we getting rid of in order to "look towards next year". I don't see many guys we can use as pieces to upgrade for the future even if we were inclined to do that this year.

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02-19-2011, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
But Chariot, this is what the Rangers DO do. It's why each year under Torts they've gotten off to good starts. Then, as the season grinds on, other teams up their level of play and the constant need to work harder in order to win takes its toll on your OWN players. THEY get worn down during the course of the season.

At a certain point, you need to have at least close to the same level of talent as the top teams in order to beat them. You don't always have to have more pure talent; work ethic, game planning and chemistry can push you past a slightly better team. But if you aren't at least within the same ballpark, you're simply not going to be able to compete in the long run.
Is that it then, just worn down? Looked last night like the old devils were way more able to bring an A game than our kids. Every pass, shot, breakout was challenged immediately. You'd think youth would prevail but the older players know how to pace themselves and man up when the games really matter.

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02-19-2011, 01:02 PM
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Why does this team just get pushed to the periphery so often? Last night they had 2-3 quality chances and the rest are all bad angle peripheral stuff from the outside.

Is it just that they are too young to man up when the games get big? No one will attack the net, go to the $$$ areas for fear of getting injured?

Are they too small?

I know they are not the most skilled bunch but to me that means you attack the net even more, if you dump you chase hard and battle to get to the front of the net and muck it up.


Do they think they are more skilled than than they are?


What do you think Torts tells them looking at the video from games like last night? Its not just last night, they do it all the time when they lose. Stay to the outside where it's safe and maybe get a shot off at a bad angle and see if someone else will do the dirty work.

It's like this team is coached by Markus Naslund without the skill

I know it looks easier watching at home, but come on...
Chariot, there is one reason and one reason for it only.

Our worthless transition game. We look exactly like Atlanta for example did against us in the PO's when we swept them. When IK and Hossa were invisible for 4 straight games.

Torts gameplan is just flawed.

This is the problem
-We get the puck deep in our own end. The order from the coach is then to head up ice ASAP.
-Our D's make a long pass up ice, often to one of our wingers.
-The player that gets the puck, is often the one forward we have the highest up ice.
-That puck is re-directed by the winger into the attacking-zone, and our winger is then often hits by a D.
= Whats the result?
-The puck is at the endboards.
1. We have one winger at the attacking blueline, who is slowed down by a hit.
2. We have a center and another winger basically at the redline heading up ice.
3. We have two D's in our own zone, heading up ice.
Our forward with the puck just gets completely isolated high up ice. It's the textbook book flaw with playing pre-lockout hockey in the post lockout game. It does not matter how hard we work, we will just not be able to get a hold of the other team.

The positive is that we do not give away pucks in the neutralzone. This system is designed to break traps. You can not really trap against a team like that. Not NJD 1995 type of trap at least. People say that NJD trapped last night. They actually did not. Lemiere just put a D in the corner in his defensive zone, and when we re-directed a long pass into the attacking zone, we had no chance to put pressure on NJD's D. They already fetched the puck when we crossed the attacking blueline.

We give up possesion by design.

If we play against a team that keeps the possesion of the puck -- the momentumgame is basically lost on forehand.

If we face a team that:
1. Trys to play a puckpossesion game, but
2. fails at doing so. Struggles. Plays sloppy. Makes misstakes.
=Then we will eat them up.

But when we face a team that does not shoot themselfs in the foot, then we are screwed basically.


Last edited by Ola: 02-19-2011 at 01:08 PM.
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02-19-2011, 01:11 PM
  #20
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Chariot, there is one reason and one reason for it only.

Our worthless transition game. We look exactly like Atlanta for example did against us in the PO's when we swept them. When IK and Hossa were invisible for 4 straight games.

Torts gameplan is just flawed.

This is the problem
-We get the puck deep in our own end. The order from the coach is then to head up ice ASAP.
-Our D's make a long pass up ice, often to one of our wingers.
-The player that gets the puck, is often the one forward we have the highest up ice.
-That puck is re-directed by the winger into the attacking-zone, and our winger is then often hits by a D.
= Whats the result?
-The puck is at the endboards.
1. We have one winger at the attacking blueline, who is slowed down by a hit.
2. We have a center and another winger basically at the redline heading up ice.
3. We have two D's in our own zone, heading up ice.
Our forward with the puck just gets completely isolated high up ice. It's the textbook book flaw with playing pre-lockout hockey in the post lockout game. It does not matter how hard we work, we will just not be able to get a hold of the other team.

The positive is that we do not give away pucks in the neutralzone. This system is designed to break traps. You can not really trap against a team like that. Not NJD 1995 type of trap at least. People say that NJD trapped last night. They actually did not. Lemiere just put a D in the corner in his defensive zone, and when we re-directed a long pass into the attacking zone, we had no chance to put pressure on NJD's D. They already fetched the puck when we crossed the attacking blueline.

We give up possesion by design.

If we play against a team that keeps the possesion of the puck -- the momentumgame is basically lost on forehand.

If we face a team that:
1. Trys to play a puckpossesion game, but
2. fails at doing so. Struggles. Plays sloppy. Makes misstakes.
=Then we will eat them up.

But when we face a team that does not shoot themselfs in the foot, then we are screwed basically.
SO WHY NOT EMPLOY THIS UP TO THE BLUELINE AND THAN GET TO THE NET.

Why continue with the periphery once in their zone. It would seem like a little tweak to that scheme on the other end would be better

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02-19-2011, 01:14 PM
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The only player on this entire roster that I ever see control the puck along the boards and allow other players to drive the slot etc is Avery. Look at most NHL games, the teams that are able to constatly thread the slot, and overload down low, are teams that can handle puck possesion along the boards in the face of opposition pressure.

We don't have that, so we enter the zone, try and cycle, get bumped off the puck, and exit the zone again.

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02-19-2011, 01:19 PM
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The only player on this entire roster that I ever see control the puck along the boards and allow other players to drive the slot etc is Avery. Look at most NHL games, the teams that are able to constatly thread the slot, and overload down low, are teams that can handle puck possesion along the boards in the face of opposition pressure.

We don't have that, so we enter the zone, try and cycle, get bumped off the puck, and exit the zone again.
Avery is one of our MOST periphery players 90% of the time. He constantly takes weak angled shots, misses the net altogether many times. The 10% of the time he goes to the net he is famous for making **** happen. Even if they dont score he's messing with the d's heads and making them work harder but he fails to do it regularly.

Why? It works when he does it.... but than he doesnt do it.

We dont need Aves controlling the puck in the corner as much as we need him in the slot

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02-19-2011, 01:27 PM
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The positive is that we do not give away pucks in the neutralzone. This system is designed to break traps. You can not really trap against a team like that. Not NJD 1995 type of trap at least. People say that NJD trapped last night. They actually did not. Lemiere just put a D in the corner in his defensive zone, and when we re-directed a long pass into the attacking zone, we had no chance to put pressure on NJD's D. They already fetched the puck when we crossed the attacking blueline.
Were you watching the same game last night? Did you not see NJ have ALL THREE forwards sitting on THEIR OWN side of the red line?

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02-19-2011, 04:33 PM
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Were you watching the same game last night? Did you not see NJ have ALL THREE forwards sitting on THEIR OWN side of the red line?
Only in the 3rd, and after like linechanges or something.

Truth to be told, NJD spent most of the time with the puck in our end. Shots in the first period was 12-5 and then 10-5 in the second period. If they were trapping, lol, what were we doing?

I noticed right away that Lemiere was up to something, and Torts got exposed real bad.

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