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ATD 2011 Draft Thread V

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Old
02-20-2011, 05:42 PM
  #176
monster_bertuzzi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf Lander View Post
select Hall of Famer

#8 Rusty Crawford D

He was know for his speed aggressive play and longevity
Just to avoid some confusion, he was a left winger.

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02-20-2011, 05:42 PM
  #177
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Rusty Crawford was largely a forward in the pre-merger era.

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Old
02-20-2011, 05:42 PM
  #178
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I believe he took who he meant to take. The other Crawford isn't a hall of famer.

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Old
02-20-2011, 05:43 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Boy Wonder View Post
I believe he took who he meant to take. The other Crawford isn't a hall of famer.
Shh!

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02-20-2011, 05:45 PM
  #180
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I'm wondering if LL thought he was taking some kind of fusion between the two.

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02-20-2011, 05:45 PM
  #181
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sorry fixed it

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Old
02-20-2011, 05:57 PM
  #182
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In the Babe Pratt profile I just posted, I showed that he was regarded as a hard-hitting defenseman who played well defensively (while sometimes putting up points) with the Rangers.

Here are some newspaper quotes from his time in Toronto that show that after Pratt exploded offensively, he continued to be known for his hard hitting game, for blocking shots, and for providing a steadying influence on the blue line:

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Calgary Herald, 1944
“Walter (Babe) Pratt, the big ice-general who helped (undrafted coach) mold a bunch of youngsters into the third-place Toronto Maple Leafs today was announced the Hart Trophy winner…spent quite a bit of his time during the season roving among the forwards…He scored 17 goals and set up the play for 40 others for an unusually high point mark for defensemen. Those points were highly important to the Leafs, but probably the Babe did more good back of the blue line with his blocking and his ability to steady jittery rookies:”
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...be+pratt&hl=en

Quote:
Originally Posted by (Windsor Daily Star, 1946)
“One of the hardest hitting defensemen in the league…”
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...be+pratt&hl=en

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Telegraph, 1946
“A colorful, hard checking rearguard… He was an outstanding player for the club last season and was prime factor (sic) in their capturing of the Stanley Cup.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...be+pratt&hl=en

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Old
02-20-2011, 06:01 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by overpass View Post
Thanks for the respose, Johnny. It's hard to say more without mentioning undrafted players. I'll just say that Larmers centres had their best years while playing with him. I think Larmer was a very complete and underrated player.

How far back do you go as a hockey fan, if you don't mind me asking?
Apologies to everyone for mentioning the undrafted.


I was just a boy in the 80's, so I will admit that my personal judgements from that time could be off. I will also say that I am a huge Larmer fan and think he was a great choice for your team. I had him just about even with one other undrafted for best RW available (still not sure who I would've taken between the two). I guess the difference between Larmer and Savard for me is that I think Savard has the ability to carry a line by himself, while Larmer is more of a complimentary player.

As for his centers having their best years with Larmer, I'm not so sure how much weight that carries...

Savard had already scored 119 pts before Larmer started playing on the Hawks, which shows he clearly was capable of putting up big numbers without Larmer. The two played together for almost all of Savard's prime, it would have been hard for him NOT to have his best season with Larmer. It would be odd to really expect Savard to have his best season at age 29+ after playing over 800 games.

Larmer's center in Chicago after Savard basically put up the exact same year his last year with Larmer and the year after when Larmer was gone. Shortly after that he had a devastating injury and was never really the same.

I can't say much about his time with the Rangers. I remember Anderson, Larmer, and an undrafted all rotating between first and second line RW duties with the undrafted sometimes playing center.


Last edited by Hawkey Town 18: 02-20-2011 at 06:08 PM.
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Old
02-20-2011, 06:11 PM
  #184
overpass
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyD View Post
Apologies to everyone for mentioning the undrafted.


I was just a boy in the 80's, so I will admit that my personal judgements from that time could be off. I will also say that I am a huge Larmer fan and think he was a great choice for your team. I had him just about even with one other undrafted for best RW available (still not sure who I would've taken between the two). I guess the difference between Larmer and Savard for me is that I think Savard has the ability to carry a line by himself, while Larmer is more of a complimentary player.

As for his centers having their best years with Larmer, I'm not so sure how much weight that carries...

Savard had already scored 119 pts before Larmer started playing on the Hawks, which shows he clearly was capable of putting up big numbers without Larmer. The two played together for almost all of Savard's prime, it would have been hard for him not to have his best season without Larmer. It would be odd to really expect Savard to have his best season at age 29+ after playing over 800 games.

Larmer's center in Chicago after Savard basically put up the exact same year his last year with Larmer and the year after when Larmer was gone. Shortly after that he had a devastating injury and was never really the same.

I can't say much about his time with the Rangers. I remember Anderson, Larmer, and an undrafted all rotating between first and second line RW duties with the undrafted sometimes playing center.
I don't mean to call your memories into question, just curious. I like the younger GMs here (I'm in my 20s myself) but I think the draft is better for having some GMs who saw more of the players play.

Larmer's actually not my guy, DoMakc grabbed him. I wasn't going to take him, having drafted Provost. But if I thought Larmer would fall to 270, I would have gone for that - he would be a perfect RW for Modano. I'm just pimping a player I like. TheDevilMadeMe and 70s are doing a good job defending Modano for me, so I can discuss other guys

Another thing about Larmer - Chicago went from 72 points to 104 points in his rookie season, and dropped from 106 points to 87 points after he left. (Although of course they weren't always that good when he was there.) And the Rangers won the Cup in his first season there. So you could say team success tended to follow him around. His career +204 is very good also.

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Old
02-20-2011, 06:21 PM
  #185
TheDevilMadeMe
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Denis Savard said that Larmer was the best linemate he ever had - Larmer was a solid triggerman, good defensively, and good in corners.

I think Savard created significantly more offense though. He also gave every LW he had a career season, as a right handed center.

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Old
02-20-2011, 06:36 PM
  #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Billy, you might want to add this to Frank McGee's profile (it's from the LOH profile of an undrafted):

Sure, there's no proof the Silver 7 got blown out because they were missing McGee, but it's a nice feather in his cap.
Thanks, but I've got that covered in his profile.

Quote:
In 1904-05 in the Challenge Series, McGee missed the first game with a a broken wrist and after being knocked unconscious, as the quote says. Ottawa lost Game 1 9-3. He came back for Game 2, playing with a broken wrist, and Ottawa won 4-2. In the decisive Game 3, again playing significantly injured, he scored 3 goals, including the game winner.

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Old
02-20-2011, 08:02 PM
  #187
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Thoughts on splitting up the gold dust twins? It hurts to not see them together but it makes a lot more sense to have Thomson playing with Tremblay. Then Mortson can anchor the second pairing, he's an elite #3.

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Old
02-20-2011, 08:51 PM
  #188
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Regina selects Wayne Cashman, W, a poor man's Bert Olmstead.

This is one of those guys I never thought I'd draft, but he fell to a good spot.

I wanted to have the "best of" something. and with Cashman I get the best puckwinner on any second line. Normally I would look for the primary offensive catalyst of a second line first, but only under normal circumstances, not in times when I can get a guy like Cash.

Cash was a six-year captain of the Bruins, a two-time cup winner and three-time finalist, twice top-10 in points, known as the league's best cornermen in his time, one of the league's best fighters, hardest workers, and dirtiest players. He was also described as a "relentless backchecker", although this didn't translate to frequent PK usage.

Cash was a natural RW who usually played on the left side. This makes him a viable option for either wing and gives me more options going forward as I have literally no idea who will be available for my future picks.

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Old
02-20-2011, 08:51 PM
  #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hungryhungryhippy View Post
Thoughts on splitting up the gold dust twins? It hurts to not see them together but it makes a lot more sense to have Thomson playing with Tremblay. Then Mortson can anchor the second pairing, he's an elite #3.
My opinion is you don't draft the Gold Dust Twins just to split them up.

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Old
02-20-2011, 09:31 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
My opinion is you don't draft the Gold Dust Twins just to split them up.
I know, I know, it just seems wrong. But these aren't ideal circumstances. They way I'm trying to think of it is, most of the time they aren't playing together, so it's not a big deal if they aren't together. It's like I'm losing out on a chemistry "bonus". Their individual value is still unchanged.

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Old
02-20-2011, 09:36 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
I wanted to have the "best of" something. and with Cashman I get the best puckwinner on any second line. Normally I would look for the primary offensive catalyst of a second line first, but only under normal circumstances, not in times when I can get a guy like Cash.
.
Dickie Moore disagrees

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Old
02-20-2011, 10:05 PM
  #192
seventieslord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
Dickie Moore disagrees
Strictly from a puckwinning perspective... I take Cash over Moore.

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Old
02-20-2011, 10:37 PM
  #193
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Too lazy to edit out the undrafted players, so this post is just to advise any interested parties that my Mark Messier bio is now "officially" posted in the bio thread (it's been done for months):

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=3...6&postcount=69

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Old
02-20-2011, 11:16 PM
  #194
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The Niagara City Blue select RW Joe Mullen

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Old
02-20-2011, 11:19 PM
  #195
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Originally Posted by matsblue13 View Post
The Niagara City Blue select RW Joe Mullen
Had him in ATD 9, real underrated. Great playoff performer too.

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Old
02-20-2011, 11:21 PM
  #196
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Had him in ATD 9, real underrated. Great playoff performer too.
Never saw him play. Read that he was underrated and quite possibly the greatest American player ever.

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Old
02-20-2011, 11:25 PM
  #197
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Never saw him play. Read that he was underrated and quite possibly the greatest American player ever.
Must have been an old article because guys like Chelios, Leetch, and Modano definitely passed him IMO. He was a great RW though and lead the playoffs in goals twice.

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02-20-2011, 11:48 PM
  #198
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Finally and maybe most importantly, Larmer being on the same level as Savard does not pass the eye-test for me.
Yeah its not even close to anyone who actually saw them play. I don't think anyone who did would make that claim.

Larmer was a very good offensive player and a good all around player. I liked him even as a Leaf fan.

Savard was a great offensive player. Not so much defensively in my memory at least.


Last edited by BraveCanadian: 02-21-2011 at 12:02 AM.
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Old
02-20-2011, 11:56 PM
  #199
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Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
Must have been an old article because guys like Chelios, Leetch, and Modano definitely passed him IMO. He was a great RW though and lead the playoffs in goals twice.
Mullen was the trailblazer, though. First to 500 and 1000 points etc.

Very good player, especially when you consider he learned to play at first on rollerskates in New York if I remember correctly..

He still has to be among the best Americans ever pretty easily..


Last edited by BraveCanadian: 02-21-2011 at 12:01 AM.
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Old
02-21-2011, 12:19 AM
  #200
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Originally Posted by hungryhungryhippy View Post
Thoughts on splitting up the gold dust twins? It hurts to not see them together but it makes a lot more sense to have Thomson playing with Tremblay. Then Mortson can anchor the second pairing, he's an elite #3.
That's sort of a tough question. You're already pretty deep into the draft to be taking a #2 defenseman, though I guess there are still a few guys out there who could hold it down for you alongside Tremblay. Might want to do it sooner rather than later if you're not going to break up the twins.

Not sure I'd call Mortson an "elite" #3 defenseman in this thing, though if you use him as such he will likely be in the top 1/4 of them when all is said and done. Looking around the league at already-drafted "third best" defensemen (ignoring which pairing they're assigned to), I think the true elite are obviously Chara/Flaman (whomever you wish to classify as a #3) and Georges Boucher. After that, you've got I think a second sub-elite tier that consists of Stapleton and Lutchenko (who I really like), and then a pretty big "very good" tier in which Mortson falls with others like Suter, Griffis, McCrimmon, Heller, Pratt, Hitchman, Ragulin, Boivin and Ross.

Honestly, it really depends on who you draft as your next defenseman. There aren't a lot of guys left who I'd trust as a #2 next to Tremblay, and if you don't get one of them, you probably should break up the twins. You can always play them as your first unit PK pairing, at any rate.

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