HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Ottawa Senators
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Lee...

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-21-2011, 07:13 PM
  #51
koreaboy
Registered User
 
koreaboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,673
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Legend Killer View Post
U mean like the big bad Chris Phillips? Or the nasty Filip Kuba?
i said size and TEMPERAMENT. phillips is 215+ and has the temperament to be a good shutdown guy and he is. kuba has the size, but he's a 225lb. gummy bear.

koreaboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-24-2011, 01:12 AM
  #52
The Mars Volchenkov
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Colorado
Country: United States
Posts: 37,462
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to The Mars Volchenkov
Nice article on Lee.

http://www.ottawasun.com/sports/hock.../17386446.html

The Mars Volchenkov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-24-2011, 01:35 AM
  #53
Hale The Villain
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,385
vCash: 50
Once he establishes himself as an NHL defenseman the offense will come. Right now he needs to keep doing what he's doing.

Looking like he could become a fringe top 4 defenseman one day if his recent play isn't an illusion.

Hale The Villain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-24-2011, 08:03 AM
  #54
Billy Madison*
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,101
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mars Volchenkov View Post
He's starting to find a role in Ottawa and in The NHL, that's what he needed to do the whole time. A lot of people said that what worked in HS and College won't work in The NHL for him, and it didn't. Lee is going to be more of a shutdown guy going forward, more of a Chris Phillips than a Wade Redden to be sure.

The pairing I personally see going up against the top lines in 3, 4 years when The Sens finally are making serious noise again in a Lee/Cowen pairing. 2 huge bodies that can skate and move the puck well. Between those two no one will be getting beat wide, losing a lot of puck battles, or making many mistakes if they keep things simple.

Lee has totally turned his game around and he found what is going to work for him in The NHL. He doesn't need to go out there and hammer guys along the boards or go end to end to create offense, He needs to be steady, physical, and smart. That will go a long way in the future for him.

Like I said, next year and going forward I think it's only a matter of time before Lee/Cowen become the new A Train/Phillips. Hopefully they can find that spot for Lee next year.

Billy Madison* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-24-2011, 08:12 AM
  #55
Cujomi
Hart en Ziel
 
Cujomi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,319
vCash: 500
I think it would be better to have a Cowen/Rundblad pairing, but Lee should definitely figure into our future plans.

Cujomi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-24-2011, 08:16 AM
  #56
Minister of Offence
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 23,091
vCash: 500
Credit to Carvel, to Richardson, to Schwartz.

Not to Clouston...

Good on Lee though, could tell he actually benefited some from sitting upstairs...he makes good quick reads out of the zone. Like I've said before...limited potential as far as offense goes, but he'll make an NHL career.

Minister of Offence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-24-2011, 08:30 AM
  #57
longsuffering
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 113
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikKarlsson View Post
We haven't drafted Larsson. Carkner is terrible and who says Gryba will even make the NHL.
Carkner is terrible, yet is a mere -1 +/-, I see you didn't include - 28 in you stat line there Erik.

longsuffering is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-24-2011, 08:36 AM
  #58
Holdurbreathe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,594
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
Credit to Carvel, to Richardson, to Schwartz.

Not to Clouston...

Good on Lee though, could tell he actually benefited some from sitting upstairs...he makes good quick reads out of the zone. Like I've said before...limited potential as far as offense goes, but he'll make an NHL career.
Way to early to judge what his potential is, given he has only played a season worth of games in the NHL at the ripe old age of 23.

So many posters have been so wrong about Lee it is really pathetic. It was Lee who was on the first pairing with Phillips last night, not Carkner, Campoli, or Kuba. Lee has passed all of them on the depth chart, even playing for Clouston.

Lee's upside can only be judged with time, as his confidence grows, so probably will his game. As his game grows, I am sure coaches like Richardson and Carvel will help him develop his offensive skills. He has the key ingredients to be a solid contributor on offence, he reads the plays well, makes solid passes, and skates very well. If he develops a big league shot, he will be the full package.

I can only hope with the rebuild in full swing next year, the many self proclaimed experts allow the prospects like Cowen, Rundblad, et al, time to develop before screaming on these boards to give them all away for a bag of pucks.


Last edited by Holdurbreathe: 02-24-2011 at 09:25 AM.
Holdurbreathe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-24-2011, 09:21 AM
  #59
playasRus
Registered User
 
playasRus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,957
vCash: 500
Who'd have thought that when our wave of young D came in in the following years, we'd be considering Lee as one of our "veteran" defensemen

playasRus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-24-2011, 09:42 AM
  #60
ErikKarlsson
The Best (per IOC)
 
ErikKarlsson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,201
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by longsuffering View Post
Carkner is terrible, yet is a mere -1 +/-, I see you didn't include - 28 in you stat line there Erik.
Games played, TOI, and playing against top lines is what Karlsson does. Atleast use a stat that actually matters if you are going to try to call me out. Not to Mention Karlsson actually has an offensive game to make up for defensive lapses.

Do you think Carkner is better then Phillips just because of +/- as well?

ErikKarlsson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-24-2011, 09:47 AM
  #61
longsuffering
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 113
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikKarlsson View Post
Games played, TOI, and playing against top lines is what Karlsson does. Atleast use a stat that actually matters if you are going to try to call me out. Not to Mention Karlsson actually has an offensive game to make up for defensive lapses.

Do you think Carkner is better then Phillips just because of +/- as well?
I just don't think Carkner is terrible, however, TOi, playing against top lines, no arguement Karllsson has amazing offensive skills, but is overmatched defensively at this point of his career. By your logic, his offense makes up for his defense, mmmmmmmm, so he should be even +/-, sorry -28 ( useless stat, I know)

longsuffering is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-24-2011, 09:52 AM
  #62
ErikKarlsson
The Best (per IOC)
 
ErikKarlsson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,201
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by longsuffering View Post
I just don't think Carkner is terrible, however, TOi, playing against top lines, no arguement Karllsson has amazing offensive skills, but is overmatched defensively at this point of his career. By your logic, his offense makes up for his defense, mmmmmmmm, so he should be even +/-, sorry -28 ( useless stat, I know)
Ok buddy, the team is -58 and you expect Karlsson to be even in +/-? There is a reason that Karlsson plays over 23 minutes and there is also a reason Carkner plays 15 minutes a game. I'll let you figure it out.


Last edited by ErikKarlsson: 02-24-2011 at 10:01 AM.
ErikKarlsson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-24-2011, 10:14 AM
  #63
longsuffering
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 113
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikKarlsson View Post
Ok buddy, the team is -58 and you expect Karlsson to be even in +/-? There is a reason that Karlsson over 23 minutes and there is also a reason Carkner plays 15 minutes a game. I'll let you figure it out.
So, again, buddy, if that is that case, and Carkner is terrible, shouldn't his +/- be worse??? I am trying to figure it out, you made the statement that Karllsson offense makes up for his defensive lapses, yet he has worst +/- in the league, looks like you do not have it figured out, your logic bud, I got it figured out , and my conclusion is that Carkner is not terrible.

longsuffering is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-24-2011, 10:16 AM
  #64
Powdered Toast Man
Is he a ham?
 
Powdered Toast Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,585
vCash: 500
Carkner gets a lot of PK time and doesn't match up against the opponent's top unit at ES, therefor his +/- is higher.

End discussion.

Powdered Toast Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-24-2011, 10:21 AM
  #65
Micklebot
Registered User
 
Micklebot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,867
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikKarlsson View Post
Ok buddy, the team is -58 and you expect Karlsson to be even in +/-? There is a reason that Karlsson plays over 23 minutes and there is also a reason Carkner plays 15 minutes a game. I'll let you figure it out.
Because the team is more often then not playing from behind and needs to open up offensively, rather then shut things down?

Don't get me wrong, I love Karlsson, but Carkner plays his role quite well, and is far from the problem with this team.


Last edited by Micklebot: 02-24-2011 at 10:21 AM. Reason: typo
Micklebot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-24-2011, 10:21 AM
  #66
Karlssonlee
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,551
vCash: 500
I'm glad to see him get recognition from here and Murray

Always been a fan of his, as you can tell by my name !!

But really, he's looked best when paired with Phillips or Gonchar. I hope next season he can solidify himself and assert himself in the top 4

Karlssonlee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-24-2011, 10:23 AM
  #67
enviro61
Registered User
 
enviro61's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,180
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe View Post
Way to early to judge what his potential is, given he has only played a season worth of games in the NHL at the ripe old age of 23.

So many posters have been so wrong about Lee it is really pathetic. It was Lee who was on the first pairing with Phillips last night, not Carkner, Campoli, or Kuba. Lee has passed all of them on the depth chart, even playing for Clouston.

Lee's upside can only be judged with time, as his confidence grows, so probably will his game. As his game grows, I am sure coaches like Richardson and Carvel will help him develop his offensive skills. He has the key ingredients to be a solid contributor on offence, he reads the plays well, makes solid passes, and skates very well. If he develops a big league shot, he will be the full package.
I can only hope with the rebuild in full swing next year, the many self proclaimed experts allow the prospects like Cowen, Rundblad, et al, time to develop before screaming on these boards to give them all away for a bag of pucks.


We have scores of injuries and you point to him playing on the top line for a night on the 29th placed team in the NHL with the worst goal differential as a defining moment. Seriously, saying he has played better is one thing but to assume he is near the top of the depth chart based on 1 game is just odd. What about all of the games he was a healthy scratch for? So he has risen in the ranks so fast that you are now ready to proclaim him as the full package if he can develop a shot...seriously...seriously

enviro61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-24-2011, 10:37 AM
  #68
Powdered Toast Man
Is he a ham?
 
Powdered Toast Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,585
vCash: 500
The fact that a player is/was a healthy scratch doesn't mean he doesn't do some things well. Lee has always been a good positional defender (i.e what they teach you in the NCAA/USHL) that can move the puck well. His problem when he came up was the fact that the Senators really didn't have room for a player of his style, they had room for a physical no-mistakes 5-6 guy. So they asked him to play a style he was not used to if he wanted to stick around, he didn't pick it up immediately and so he got sent down which sent his confidence down the drain. Telling a player you have to change your entire game or else you will get sent down so fast your head will spin is putting him in an awfully difficult situation.

It appears Lee has finally become what the Senators wanted him to be. A physical no-mistakes d-man who doesn't give a **** about offense. I wouldn't be surprised if Lee got "PLAY IT SAFE" tattooed on his lower back. Not the best use of assets, but an NHL gig is an NHL gig.

Imagine if Karlsson was still in the minors because the coaching staff didn't like his defense? That gets overlooked, nothing Lee does has ever been overlooked by the Senators.

Powdered Toast Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-24-2011, 10:41 AM
  #69
Minister of Offence
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 23,091
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe View Post
Way to early to judge what his potential is, given he has only played a season worth of games in the NHL at the ripe old age of 23.
23 isn't too early to gauge a players potential. I never said I'd be 100% right...but the way I see it, he will have a hard time being a 1st unit PP player on any team that is relevant.

And I've backed Lee fully ever since he was playing in games last year.

Minister of Offence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-24-2011, 10:45 AM
  #70
enviro61
Registered User
 
enviro61's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,180
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobofish View Post
The fact that a player is/was a healthy scratch doesn't mean he doesn't do some things well. Lee has always been a good positional defender (i.e what they teach you in the NCAA/USHL) that can move the puck well. His problem when he came up was the fact that the Senators really didn't have room for a player of his style, they had room for a physical no-mistakes 5-6 guy. So they asked him to play a style he was not used to if he wanted to stick around, he didn't pick it up immediately and so he got sent down which sent his confidence down the drain. Telling a player you have to change your entire game or else you will get sent down so fast your head will spin is putting him in an awfully difficult situation.

It appears Lee has finally become what the Senators wanted him to be. A physical no-mistakes d-man who doesn't give a **** about offense. I wouldn't be surprised if Lee got "PLAY IT SAFE" tattooed on his lower back. Not the best use of assets, but an NHL gig is an NHL gig.

Imagine if Karlsson was still in the minors because the coaching staff didn't like his defense? That gets overlooked, nothing Lee does has ever been overlooked by the Senators.
I'm not here to crap on Lee but he was drafted as Redden's replacement, Muckler ever compared him to Redden at the draft. The organization had no intention of him being a stay at home defensive type when they drafted him.

him being a healthy scratch could mean a lot of things but 29 other GM's passing ona guy when he was being peddled ont he cheap speaks volumes. I'm content with his play of late but this team is a trainwreck, making the Sens roster ain't much of an accomplishment these days.

enviro61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-24-2011, 10:51 AM
  #71
Powdered Toast Man
Is he a ham?
 
Powdered Toast Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,585
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by enviro61 View Post
I'm not here to crap on Lee but he was drafted as Redden's replacement, Muckler ever compared him to Redden at the draft. The organization had no intention of him being a stay at home defensive type when they drafted him.

him being a healthy scratch could mean a lot of things but 29 other GM's passing ona guy when he was being peddled ont he cheap speaks volumes. I'm content with his play of late but this team is a trainwreck, making the Sens roster ain't much of an accomplishment these days.
Different organizations. But yes, I agree. He was drafted for one thing, then told that he couldn't do that one thing if he wanted to make it.

Grabner was put on waivers. This tells me two things, that goods GMs make mistakes and that things can change at a moments notice. Saying Lee sucks because no one picked him off waivers awhile ago is just ignorant.

Powdered Toast Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-24-2011, 10:54 AM
  #72
Minister of Offence
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 23,091
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by enviro61 View Post
I'm not here to crap on Lee but he was drafted as Redden's replacement, Muckler ever compared him to Redden at the draft. The organization had no intention of him being a stay at home defensive type when they drafted him.

him being a healthy scratch could mean a lot of things but 29 other GM's passing ona guy when he was being peddled ont he cheap speaks volumes. I'm content with his play of late but this team is a trainwreck, making the Sens roster ain't much of an accomplishment these days.
Like I said, since last year seeing him play I didn't have much doubt Lee could make a quality NHL career and never really understood why he got sat after making a mistake all the time.

Him not getting picked up off waivers meant this:
GM: So scouts, Brian Lee is on waivers. Thoughts?
Scout 1: He's been scratched for 25 games straight.
Scout 2: Yeah, haven't seen him play. I assume he was sat for a reason.
Scout 3: *Crickets*...Ditto
GM: Gotta pass I guess. Always thought that old bag took him way too early in the Crosby draft anyways

All this means nothing if you believed Lee was being unfairly scapegoated or sat for no good reason in the first place. No one picked him up because no one got to scout him. When a guy with no outstanding qualities gets sat for 25 games...you get the impression he's a guy with no outstanding qualities, who can't play in the league, and probably doesn't give you any reason to think he can.

Those impressions were all wrong, and based on Ottawa's treatment of Lee, which appears to be false, unless the benching was needed to make Lee a player. I don't subscribe to that, although I think it might have helped him somewhat.

Minister of Offence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-24-2011, 11:25 AM
  #73
Holdurbreathe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,594
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
23 isn't too early to gauge a players potential. I never said I'd be 100% right...but the way I see it, he will have a hard time being a 1st unit PP player on any team that is relevant.

And I've backed Lee fully ever since he was playing in games last year.
There is more than a slight difference in your two statements, the first being, limited potential as far as offense goes and the bolded one above.

While I would never expect Lee to replace the offensive flair of Karlsson, I do believe watching him in practice and games he could be very good offensively. However the same thing might be said the other way around, Karlsson may never come close to Lee's defensively. Personally I hope both continue to develop in all areas of their game.

I do feel passing judgement on the potential a 23 year old defenceman, given his limited opportunity to develop is premature. IMO it is as premature as the annoiting of Elliott as the next great goaltender in the NHL.

Not every player develops at the same pace, but when a player possesses the key attributes, skating, puck handling and game awareness, time is not their enemy.


Last edited by Holdurbreathe: 02-24-2011 at 11:46 AM.
Holdurbreathe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-24-2011, 11:39 AM
  #74
Holdurbreathe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,594
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
Like I said, since last year seeing him play I didn't have much doubt Lee could make a quality NHL career and never really understood why he got sat after making a mistake all the time.

Him not getting picked up off waivers meant this:
GM: So scouts, Brian Lee is on waivers. Thoughts?
Scout 1: He's been scratched for 25 games straight.
Scout 2: Yeah, haven't seen him play. I assume he was sat for a reason.
Scout 3: *Crickets*...Ditto
GM: Gotta pass I guess. Always thought that old bag took him way too early in the Crosby draft anyways

All this means nothing if you believed Lee was being unfairly scapegoated or sat for no good reason in the first place. No one picked him up because no one got to scout him. When a guy with no outstanding qualities gets sat for 25 games...you get the impression he's a guy with no outstanding qualities, who can't play in the league, and probably doesn't give you any reason to think he can.

Those impressions were all wrong, and based on Ottawa's treatment of Lee, which appears to be false, unless the benching was needed to make Lee a player. I don't subscribe to that, although I think it might have helped him somewhat.
Very much agree with your comments, hard to judge something you seldom see.

Lee, like Elliott, were victims of Clouston's snap judgement and stubborness. Elliott was one of Clouston's fair haired boys,CC made excuses for him, seemed to overlook the obvious and put the onus on the team. IMO this did nothing for Elliott's development, nor his maturation which Clouston finally acknowledged was lacking.

Lee on the other hand was benched if he burped, treated like he was the cause of everything bad. I attend practices pretty regularly at the SensPlex, Lee was given little opportunity or respect by Clouston. The one thing that was noticable, the players like him, probably because he never complained just worked his ass off.

With a new coach on the horizon, Lee's progress will probably accelerate, the kid deserves to finally play.

Holdurbreathe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-25-2011, 12:46 PM
  #75
Holdurbreathe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,594
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by enviro61 View Post


We have scores of injuries and you point to him playing on the top line for a night on the 29th placed team in the NHL with the worst goal differential as a defining moment. Seriously, saying he has played better is one thing but to assume he is near the top of the depth chart based on 1 game is just odd. What about all of the games he was a healthy scratch for? So he has risen in the ranks so fast that you are now ready to proclaim him as the full package if he can develop a shot...seriously...seriously
If you read, not just my post but the one I was commenting on, then attempted to understand what was written, you wouldn't embarass yourself writing this tripe.

First what I wrote was he had passed Campoli, Carkner, Kuba on the depth chart, nothing more.

The games he sat just proved that Clouston can't manage the players, or evaluate players very well. I think what Murray had to say yesterday to the media spoke volumes about Clouston, and his weaknesses as a coach.

Yes I am willing to suggest if he had an NHL shot he would have all the ingredients to have the full package to develop into a well rounded NHL defenseman. The context you seemed to have missed was there for the reading, but you are so clever you can just make it up as you go along.

Holdurbreathe is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:19 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.