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Mikhail Grigorenko or Anthony Mantha

View Poll Results: Grigorenko or Mantha
Grigorenko 60 27.52%
Mantha 158 72.48%
Voters: 218. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
03-05-2014, 02:17 AM
  #1
Anchor Town
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Mikhail Grigorenko or Anthony Mantha

Regardless of your team needs, which prospect would you rather have going forward? Grigorenko drafted 12th in 2012, Mantha 20th in 2013. Grigorenko has already had a taste of the NHL. Only 4 months difference in age and both currently playing in the Q. Both having good seasons.

Grigorenko: 13+13=26 in 17 games (1.53 PPG)
Mantha: 52+58=110 in 52 games (2.12 PPG)

Both have good size, Grigorenko at 6'2" 191 lbs, Mantha at 6'5" 205 lbs

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Old
03-05-2014, 02:23 AM
  #2
Corto
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Grigorenko has been heavily mishandled by Buffalo, and even as a Buffalo fan, I think it's likely most people view Mantha as the better prospect.

Me included, unless Grigorenko can put the last 2 years behind him in a hurry.

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Old
03-05-2014, 02:23 AM
  #3
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I would take Mantha, though it is far too early to give up on Grigorenko. I do think Mantha is going to benefit greatly from the Wings philosophy on development.

They have some similarities to be sure, cannot really dump on one if you like the other in my opinion. A lot of the same strengths and weaknesses, though those weaknesses have a larger impact at the center position in terms of not always having a high enough compete level or defensive awareness.

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03-05-2014, 02:35 AM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corto View Post
Grigorenko has been heavily mishandled by Buffalo, and even as a Buffalo fan, I think it's likely most people view Mantha as the better prospect.

Me included, unless Grigorenko can put the last 2 years behind him in a hurry.
This. If Grigorenko would have just played in Q and scoring like he does, he would be a lot more touted even if the question marks he would have would be bigger. The question is that has he learned enough from these 2 years to understand that he must really start to improve and work hard. Mantha, on the other hand, haven't had same kind of "opportunity" (that's exactly not the proper word, but you got the idea) to really see his weaknesses playing with adults.

The fact that Grigorenko has only one year waiver exemption left after this year decreases his value a lot compared to Mantha. But it's not Grigorenko's fault, naturally.

And I think the point production is not really a good indication of their developement. For example I would be a lot more happier if Grigorenko's point production drops, if it means that he would start play with more intensity and being more responsible covering defensive zone. But, to be honest, I don't know has he improved those aspects at all this season in the Q.

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03-05-2014, 02:40 AM
  #5
Ola
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I think Mantha is getting underrated.

I think players like Mantha can be problematic, if you draft them like you know top 2-5. He is not and he is never going to be any kind of goto player on even a 2nd line in the NHL. But, he has all the potential in the world to be a very solid strong big winger on a line where his job is to provide a board prescense and be good around the net.

I hope not to upset many of the great Buffalo posters at this place, but Grigerenko is just not my cup of tea. The game -- and especially for a center -- today is sooo much about going up and down the ice. People talk about size at center, but how many big centers are there in this league who can skate with the best? It just seem like you need to be extremely talented to cut it, its the Malkins, Kopitars, Joe T/Vinny L and co., maybe a Zajac and Backes of course has decent size but so much more intensity than Grigs.

Grigs in terms of talent is all that is promised, I just don't believe all that much in his type.

Also, every Buffalo fan should expect MASSIVE complaints on Grigs workethic. If you have the size he has, you won't be as quick as a 5'11-6'1 or even 6'2 center. You at least has a disadvantage when skating. Its the law of nature. When a center aren't as quick as the center he goes up against, he won't be as close to the puck as other centers. Its the law of nature. When you aren't on top of the puck on a regular basis, you will have to wait for chances to come to you. When you have to wait for chances to come to you, you will be streaky. Its the law of nature. When 9 of 10 human beings see a Russian that is streaky, they will crap on him for being lazy.


Last edited by Ola: 03-05-2014 at 02:49 AM.
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Old
03-05-2014, 02:50 AM
  #6
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So much ******** from the ehroff thread caused an implosion to create this?

Edit: I will take one Mantha please

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03-05-2014, 06:33 AM
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How old/experienced does a player have to be to play in the AHL? I thought if you were two years removed from the draft (like Grigorenko is) you could play in the AHL? Can someone please clear up this rule for me. Thanks.

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Old
03-05-2014, 06:37 AM
  #8
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Originally Posted by obey86 View Post
How old/experienced does a player have to be to play in the AHL? I thought if you were two years removed from the draft (like Grigorenko is) you could play in the AHL? Can someone please clear up this rule for me. Thanks.
The rule is if your turn 20 before Jan 1st, 199X you can play in the AHL. So for example this season the 1993 born players turned 20 before Jan 1st, 2014 so they are all eligible to play in the AHL.

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Old
03-05-2014, 09:50 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
I think Mantha is getting underrated.

I think players like Mantha can be problematic, if you draft them like you know top 2-5. He is not and he is never going to be any kind of goto player on even a 2nd line in the NHL. But, he has all the potential in the world to be a very solid strong big winger on a line where his job is to provide a board prescense and be good around the net.

I hope not to upset many of the great Buffalo posters at this place, but Grigerenko is just not my cup of tea. The game -- and especially for a center -- today is sooo much about going up and down the ice. People talk about size at center, but how many big centers are there in this league who can skate with the best? It just seem like you need to be extremely talented to cut it, its the Malkins, Kopitars, Joe T/Vinny L and co., maybe a Zajac and Backes of course has decent size but so much more intensity than Grigs.

Grigs in terms of talent is all that is promised, I just don't believe all that much in his type.

Also, every Buffalo fan should expect MASSIVE complaints on Grigs workethic. If you have the size he has, you won't be as quick as a 5'11-6'1 or even 6'2 center. You at least has a disadvantage when skating. Its the law of nature. When a center aren't as quick as the center he goes up against, he won't be as close to the puck as other centers. Its the law of nature. When you aren't on top of the puck on a regular basis, you will have to wait for chances to come to you. When you have to wait for chances to come to you, you will be streaky. Its the law of nature. When 9 of 10 human beings see a Russian that is streaky, they will crap on him for being lazy.
Umm what? He's scoring at roughly the same pace as Drouin in the QMJHL, over 2 ppg. He's at 1 gpg right now. He has great top line player potential, way above mediocre 2nd liner.

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03-05-2014, 10:39 AM
  #10
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Mantha

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Old
03-05-2014, 11:56 AM
  #11
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Originally Posted by The Zermanator View Post
Umm what? He's scoring at roughly the same pace as Drouin in the QMJHL, over 2 ppg. He's at 1 gpg right now. He has great top line player potential, way above mediocre 2nd liner.
He said in the NHL not in the Q

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03-05-2014, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
I think players like Mantha can be problematic, if you draft them like you know top 2-5. He is not and he is never going to be any kind of goto player on even a 2nd line in the NHL. But, he has all the potential in the world to be a very solid strong big winger on a line where his job is to provide a board prescense and be good around the net.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anchor Town View Post
He said in the NHL not in the Q
Unless I'm seriously reading that wrong, he's saying Mantha will never be a go to player on a 2nd line.

I replied that he's performing similarly to Drouin in junior, and that he's got top line potential.

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03-05-2014, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heraldic View Post
This. If Grigorenko would have just played in Q and scoring like he does, he would be a lot more touted even if the question marks he would have would be bigger. The question is that has he learned enough from these 2 years to understand that he must really start to improve and work hard. Mantha, on the other hand, haven't had same kind of "opportunity" (that's exactly not the proper word, but you got the idea) to really see his weaknesses playing with adults.

The fact that Grigorenko has only one year waiver exemption left after this year decreases his value a lot compared to Mantha. But it's not Grigorenko's fault, naturally.

And I think the point production is not really a good indication of their developement. For example I would be a lot more happier if Grigorenko's point production drops, if it means that he would start play with more intensity and being more responsible covering defensive zone. But, to be honest, I don't know has he improved those aspects at all this season in the Q.
Funny. Mantha did that this season. Started focusing on being better defensively and is even putting up more points than last year.

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03-05-2014, 12:42 PM
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Mantha will dominate this poll but in reality they're close and both will have their struggles in the NHL.

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03-05-2014, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Moskau View Post
Mantha will dominate this poll but in reality they're close and both will have their struggles in the NHL.
Go on

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03-05-2014, 06:31 PM
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Go on
By struggles he means that Holland will keep signing old farts thus making keeping Mantha at Grand Rapids….

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03-05-2014, 06:35 PM
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I'll go with the guy that I believe has the higher ceiling of being an impact player in Mantha.

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03-05-2014, 06:59 PM
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Go on
We'll see how Mantha does when guys much bigger, faster, stronger and smarter guys. Just because Mantha is outproducing Grigorenko in the Q doesn't mean a lot when they play different games. From what I have seen of both players neither is going to like the physical grinding that happens in the NHL and both will likely shy away from it. Mantha can avoid it in the Q because of his size and skill and Grigorenko can avoid it because of how smart he is. Detroit likely wont screw up Mantha's development the way Regier did to Grigorenko which is a huge plus.

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03-05-2014, 07:46 PM
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I'd still take Grigerenko.

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03-05-2014, 10:12 PM
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I'd still take Grigerenko.
Why? I don't want to slam you, because it is honestly more interesting to hear the apparent minority position.

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03-05-2014, 10:16 PM
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I'll take Mantha, though both are somewhat wild cards.

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03-05-2014, 10:35 PM
  #22
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Tough call. I still have faith in Grigorenko and feel awful for the kid for how he was treated during his first two years here.

Mantha has unquestionable talent and his stock has certainly risen since he was drafted. Reports said that he wasn't well received in his pre-draft interviews, and obviously Grigorenko declined to go back to Quebec at first so both of these players have a little ego to them.

Grigorenko fits a need in Buffalo, but he needs to reach his potential first. Mantha would also fill quite a need in Buffalo too, but he too needs to reach his potential or expectations that people are putting on him. Both of these players look like men in the QMJHL, so it will certainly be interesting to see how they translate to the AHL. We've seen Grigorenko in the NHL and he honestly hasn't looked that bad...I would never give up on a 19/20 year because they struggled as a rookie.

I'd love both, and I am happy we have one of them.

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03-05-2014, 10:40 PM
  #23
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Originally Posted by couture23 View Post
Tough call. I still have faith in Grigorenko and feel awful for the kid for how he was treated during his first two years here.

Mantha has unquestionable talent and his stock has certainly risen since he was drafted. Reports said that he wasn't well received in his pre-draft interviews, and obviously Grigorenko declined to go back to Quebec at first so both of these players have a little ego to them.

Grigorenko fits a need in Buffalo, but he needs to reach his potential first. Mantha would also fill quite a need in Buffalo too, but he too needs to reach his potential or expectations that people are putting on him. Both of these players look like men in the QMJHL, so it will certainly be interesting to see how they translate to the AHL. We've seen Grigorenko in the NHL and he honestly hasn't looked that bad...I would never give up on a 19/20 year because they struggled as a rookie.

I'd love both, and I am happy we have one of them.
I agree at the very least that Buffalo shouldn't give up on him (Grigs) quite so fast. Unless he's really serious about bolting for Europe(heh), then I just don't see how mismanagement alone should be enough of a reason to rag on the guy.

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03-05-2014, 10:41 PM
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I agree at the very least that Buffalo shouldn't give up on him (Grigs) quite so fast. Unless he's really serious about bolting for Europe(heh), then I just don't see how mismanagement alone should be enough of a reason to rag on the guy.
I don't think he will bolt for Russia. He seemed genuinely ecstatic that Buffalo drafted him, and seemed to love the city. Not to mention we have a few Russians and Europeans that he can mingle with.

I think we will be 100% okay with Grigs. (wishfully thinking of course)

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03-05-2014, 10:45 PM
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I don't think he will bolt for Russia. He seemed genuinely ecstatic that Buffalo drafted him, and seemed to love the city. Not to mention we have a few Russians and Europeans that he can mingle with.

I think we will be 100% okay with Grigs. (wishfully thinking of course)
That was more a reference to Jarnkrok and a rag on Wings' GM Ken Holland than a criticism of Buffalo or Grigorenko. Sorry if I didn't make that clear

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