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Oilers place High Price on Penner, Hemsky

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Old
02-25-2011, 06:49 PM
  #901
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marconius View Post
I know what you're trying to say, but I wouldn't include the last 5-6 years worth of draft picks in your math because a lot of them aren't busts, they just haven't received the first NHL shot or finished developing.

I agree with your point though, Anything outside the top 5 is a crap shoot at best
He is saying a lot of them WILL be busts... that is how this works. Remember those super stars Robert Nilsson and Ryan O'Marra that the Oilers got for Ryan Smyth? Man, that O'marra kid is 6'2 220 LBS! Give him some time, he will be an allstar for sure, just look at that shiny 15th overall selection! And Nilsson, wow that kid is so slick... almost as slick as his father. We are so lucky to have such talented players.


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02-25-2011, 07:02 PM
  #902
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Bobby Mac on "next question" said that Hemsky and Smid will be delt by the deadline!

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02-25-2011, 07:16 PM
  #903
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Originally Posted by oilers4life5 View Post
Bobby Mac on "next question" said that Hemsky and Smid will be delt by the deadline!
Did you really have to post old news in 2 different threads?

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02-25-2011, 07:34 PM
  #904
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Originally Posted by Forsburger View Post
Did you really have to post old news in 2 different threads?
WTF are you talking about? I'm glad he did. I haven't heard that.

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02-25-2011, 07:38 PM
  #905
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I'd be shocked if either are dealt. Tambo is in no hurry to deal them and potentially the only GM that is more cautious than him is the one that seemingly has the assets, team, and space to make a big move.

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02-25-2011, 08:55 PM
  #906
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I think its stupid of Edmonton to not deal the 2 guys actually. They don't need to trade them so they can wait. But wait until what? Wait until they have to trade them?

Penner has been a horrible contract when he signed. Now his value has gradually risen every year as his contract gets closer to termination. Now his value is arguably peeked and the Oilers is going to wait some more? And Oilers, if they wait, could end up with nothing for Hemsky given his injury history. Plus you have to pay the guys around $9m combined per year...and yes money management is important too

So if i'm Edmonton, I'm driving price up and get them out this deadline. Don't think they will get better value if they wait, plus they get money saving on top

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02-25-2011, 08:59 PM
  #907
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingler View Post
I think its stupid of Edmonton to not deal the 2 guys actually. They don't need to trade them so they can wait. But wait until what? Wait until they have to trade them?

Penner has been a horrible contract when he signed. Now his value has gradually risen every year as his contract gets closer to termination. Now his value is arguably peeked and the Oilers is going to wait some more? And Oilers, if they wait, could end up with nothing for Hemsky given his injury history. Plus you have to pay the guys around $9m combined per year...and yes money management is important too

So if i'm Edmonton, I'm driving price up and get them out this deadline. Don't think they will get better value if they wait, plus they get money saving on top
You forgot that both these guys are producers taking the pressure off Hall, Eberle, Paajarvi, Omark, and Gagne. Every rebuilding team has to have a few veterans in the line up, and those two @ just over 4 million a year is well worth it.

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02-25-2011, 09:12 PM
  #908
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Originally Posted by Homesick View Post
You forgot that both these guys are producers taking the pressure off Hall, Eberle, Paajarvi, Omark, and Gagne. Every rebuilding team has to have a few veterans in the line up, and those two @ just over 4 million a year is well worth it.
Then clearly we shouldn't be talking about trading them if they are that valuable. If its going to cost Hall, Eberle...etc development then no value is worth it

But IMO, the exercise is trying to max out value of these guys. Think the time for the Oilers is now. Waiting only make their value worst

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02-25-2011, 09:25 PM
  #909
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Originally Posted by Kingler View Post
Then clearly we shouldn't be talking about trading them if they are that valuable. If its going to cost Hall, Eberle...etc development then no value is worth it

But IMO, the exercise is trying to max out value of these guys. Think the time for the Oilers is now. Waiting only make their value worst
I don't think the Oilers are talking about *trading* them. They are saying that they are *available* if the price is right. Big difference, don't you think?

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02-25-2011, 09:28 PM
  #910
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Originally Posted by Wyrm View Post
I don't think the Oilers are talking about *trading* them. They are saying that they are *available* if the price is right. Big difference, don't you think?
Exactly. We aren't going to trade either of them if we are worse off now AND in the future. The whole point of the trade should be to help another playoff team get better NOW, while helping the Oilers get better in the future. Anything less makes no sense.

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02-25-2011, 09:32 PM
  #911
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There is no urgency to deal either guy, so naturally the prices are high at this stage and there is no guarantee either one moves.

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02-25-2011, 09:50 PM
  #912
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Originally Posted by Andrew Knoll View Post
There is no urgency to deal either guy, so naturally the prices are high at this stage and there is no guarantee either one moves.
Exactly..It'll probably be a different situation next deadline if they can't reach new deals..

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02-26-2011, 03:13 AM
  #913
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forsburger View Post
Did you really have to post old news in 2 different threads?
WOW, relax just letting everyone know and one was on the Oilers board

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Old
03-01-2011, 12:12 PM
  #914
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeakOil View Post
I guarantee that if Penner does get moved it will be for more than just a prospect and a pick (unless that prospect is AAA+).

4.25 million at this time of the year isn't bad, look at the Kaberle, Versteeg and Fisher trades, no salary went back for them.

Look at what Versteeg and Fisher returned, Penner IS a better player than either of those guys, he'll get a better return.


I just cannot resist remind about this post today.

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03-01-2011, 12:21 PM
  #915
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Originally Posted by kinghock View Post
I just cannot resist remind about this post today.
Weren`t you the `Lombardi probably doesn`t want Penner`guy. Glass stones and houses...

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03-01-2011, 12:34 PM
  #916
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Originally Posted by kinghock View Post
I just cannot resist remind about this post today.
Hey yeah he was right - it was a prospect, a pick, and another pick.

Ta daaa.

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03-01-2011, 12:56 PM
  #917
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Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
Weren`t you the `Lombardi probably doesn`t want Penner`guy. Glass stones and houses...
lol what?

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Old
03-01-2011, 02:00 PM
  #918
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I heard a lot of things in this and the 10 other LA/EDM threads, and both sides had posters that were so far off it was disgusting. That being said, lots of posters were pretty close as well.

Personally, I thought the price was going to be about a 1st + Forbort. Teubert and Forbort were drafted in similar spots, but Forbort has more tools and more upside as an all around d-man. So, they downgraded the prospect a bit and added another pick, so it's pretty close to fair value.

Obviously, the price for Hemsky was Schenn and neither team was budging off their stance, which was probably smart by both GMs.

All in all, pretty fair deal IMO for both sides.

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03-01-2011, 02:22 PM
  #919
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kinghock View Post
I just cannot resist remind about this post today.
Because it was pretty much spot on?

Versteeg returned a very late 1st and 3rd.

Fisher returned a mid round 1st and what will most likely be a 3rd or nothing.

Penner returned a mid round 1st, a former 13th overall pick and what will most likely be a third.

Penner got a decidedly better return than either Versteeg or Fisher - exactly what he claimed.

Edit: Incorrect on the condition placed upon the pick going from LA to Edmonton.


Last edited by CloutierForVezina: 03-01-2011 at 02:58 PM.
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03-01-2011, 02:28 PM
  #920
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Originally Posted by CloutierForVezina View Post
Because it was pretty much spot on?

Versteeg returned a very late 1st and 3rd.

Fisher returned a mid round 1st and what will most likely be a 3rd.

Penner returned a mid round 1st, a former 13th overall pick and what will most likely be a second.

Penner got a decidedly better return than either Versteeg or Fisher - exactly what he claimed.
Dont the Kings have to win the cup for that pick to turn into a 2nd?

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Old
03-01-2011, 02:29 PM
  #921
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CloutierForVezina View Post
Because it was pretty much spot on?

Versteeg returned a very late 1st and 3rd.

Fisher returned a mid round 1st and what will most likely be a 3rd.

Penner returned a mid round 1st, a former 13th overall pick and what will most likely be a second.

Penner got a decidedly better return than either Versteeg or Fisher - exactly what he claimed.


No, what he said was: I guarantee that if Penner does get moved it will be for more than just a prospect and a pick (unless that prospect is AAA+).
Teubert is not even close to being ‘AAA+’ prospect.

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03-01-2011, 02:34 PM
  #922
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPStoEberletoHall View Post
Dont the Kings have to win the cup for that pick to turn into a 2nd?
Edit: Appears you are correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kinghock View Post
No, what he said was: I guarantee that if Penner does get moved it will be for more than just a prospect and a pick (unless that prospect is AAA+).
Teubert is not even close to being ‘AAA+’ prospect.
There is a very big different between picks and a prospect versus a pick and a prospect.

The entire post seems pretty spot on to me.


Last edited by CloutierForVezina: 03-01-2011 at 02:57 PM.
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Old
03-01-2011, 02:42 PM
  #923
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CloutierForVezina View Post
Because it was pretty much spot on?

Versteeg returned a very late 1st and 3rd.

Fisher returned a mid round 1st and what will most likely be a 3rd.

Penner returned a mid round 1st, a former 13th overall pick and what will most likely be a second.

Penner got a decidedly better return than either Versteeg or Fisher - exactly what he claimed.
There is a lot wrong with this post...
1. Versteeg got Philadelphia's 1st & 3rd in 2011

2. Fisher got Nashville's 1st in 2011 & 3rd in 2012. If the Predators win a round in the 2011 playoffs the 3rd becomes a 2nd in 2012.

3. Penner returned Colten Teubert, a 1st in 2011 & 3rd in 2012. That 3rd will become a 2nd if LA wins the Cup in 2011.

Colten Teubert was a complete throw in and might never make The NHL. If he does, he looks like a bottom-pairing guy in the same mold as a Mark Stuart. Great to have on the roster, but kind of a dime-a-dozen type of guy.

Right now Nashville's pick is higher then LA's, so you can make the case that Ottawa got more for Fisher then Edmonton did for Penner. Ottawa's also more likely to get a 2nd then Edmonton, Nashville just needs to win a round for that 3rd to be bumped to a 2nd, LA needs to win the Cup in order for Edmonton to get a 2nd.

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03-01-2011, 02:46 PM
  #924
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8BostonRocker24 View Post
There is a lot wrong with this post...
1. Versteeg got Philadelphia's 1st & 3rd in 2011

2. Fisher got Nashville's 1st in 2011 & 3rd in 2012. If the Predators win a round in the 2011 playoffs the 3rd becomes a 2nd in 2012.

3. Penner returned Colten Teubert, a 1st in 2011 & 3rd in 2012. That 3rd will become a 2nd if LA wins the Cup in 2011.

Colten Teubert was a complete throw in and might never make The NHL. If he does, he looks like a bottom-pairing guy in the same mold as a Mark Stuart. Great to have on the roster, but kind of a dime-a-dozen type of guy.

Right now Nashville's pick is higher then LA's, so you can make the case that Ottawa got more for Fisher then Edmonton did for Penner. Ottawa's also more likely to get a 2nd then Edmonton, Nashville just needs to win a round for that 3rd to be bumped to a 2nd, LA needs to win the Cup in order for Edmonton to get a 2nd.

That's what i figured

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03-01-2011, 02:52 PM
  #925
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8BostonRocker24 View Post
There is a lot wrong with this post...
1. Versteeg got Philadelphia's 1st & 3rd in 2011
... Which is exactly what I said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 8BostonRocker24 View Post
2. Fisher got Nashville's 1st in 2011 & 3rd in 2012. If the Predators win a round in the 2011 playoffs the 3rd becomes a 2nd in 2012.
I got my information from tsn.ca and it disagrees with what you're saying:

"The conditions of the 2012 draft pick are as follows. The Senators will receive Nashville's third rounder if the Preds win one playoff round. That pick would then turn into a second-round pick in 2012 if the team wins two or more rounds."

Source: http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=353271

So it's a 3rd if they win 1 round, it's a 2nd if they win 2+ rounds.

TSN could very well be wrong, do you have a source that refutes this article?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 8BostonRocker24 View Post
3. Penner returned Colten Teubert, a 1st in 2011 & 3rd in 2012. That 3rd will become a 2nd if LA wins the Cup in 2011.
Edit: Misread the TSN article, apologies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 8BostonRocker24 View Post
Colten Teubert was a complete throw in and might never make The NHL. If he does, he looks like a bottom-pairing guy in the same mold as a Mark Stuart. Great to have on the roster, but kind of a dime-a-dozen type of guy.
Pure opinion

You can say that about every single prospect - Schenn, Hodgson, Kadri, Filatov etc. If you want to argue Tuebert has a higher bust potential than average that would be a meaningful point of discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by 8BostonRocker24 View Post
Right now Nashville's pick is higher then LA's, so you can make the case that Ottawa got more for Fisher then Edmonton did for Penner. Ottawa's also more likely to get a 2nd then Edmonton, Nashville just needs to win a round for that 3rd to be bumped to a 2nd, LA needs to win the Cup in order for Edmonton to get a 2nd.
At the time of the Fisher trade, Nashville was sitting 4th in the West. At the time of the Penner trade, LA was 6th in the west. I find it very difficult to argue that Fisher got a bigger return than Penner


Edit: I think I misread the TSN article, apologies. I'll just take your word on that condition.

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